|
|
Post by nltdiego on Nov 20, 2013 19:18:19 GMT -6
Coaches,
Just finished my 2nd year as the HC of a new school. I set up a weak preseason schedule to get wins and build confidence. We have gotten preseason wins but still struggle in wins. The town 10 mins from us wants to play next year. I think this is a sign of respect from the other coach that our program is moving in the right direction. However, I'm not sure we can win this game but it lets our community know what we have to do to get to a developed and successful program.
At one point do you start playing more difficult teams to install confidence in the program and community? Do you lose respect from coaches and players if you dont play them? At what point do you play quality teams to help benefit the program?
Overall... do you think we should play the school that I'm not sure we can beat but in five years we can if we keep playing them?
|
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Nov 20, 2013 19:30:33 GMT -6
Bill Snyder talked about this in his book. KSU had been the most losing program in D1 history. He said this was one of the keys of turning things around. Success breeds success. I think playing weaker teams and getting some wins helps build confidence in your players, staff, and your community. After the wins come, then you can reassess the situation and make adjustmenst to your schedule.
I am guessing and I could be wrong but I think coaches, players, and the community alike in most cases would be more motivated by a 6-8+ win team with a weak schedule than a 2-4- win team. I just think moving into the offseason that players and many coaches would be more motivated to work hard and put in the time after a more successful season.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachjm on Nov 20, 2013 20:56:35 GMT -6
It is all dependent on the rest of the schedule. You want to make ensure a solid group of kids who play to their potential have the opportunity to feel success. If the rest of the schedule is a bear and your lucky to get a win on it you need to ensure you get a couple victories in the games you can select. If the schedule has some games you feel are safe bets on it is wise to bolster those other games to better prepare the team for when you have big games.
|
|
|
|
Post by coach2013 on Nov 21, 2013 6:35:17 GMT -6
Temple U
Kids aren't stupid. They know when they have a chance to win games and that's what they care about. Put the best schedule you can put together to win games and build numbers and become a winner. When you have a few seasons of heavy lifting, hard hitting, discipline, football Intelligence and comfort with your systems, you will be ready to step off the porch and play with the big dogs. I wish we had the opportunity to play schools in our class as we are often playing up due to our conference situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by blb on Nov 21, 2013 9:25:26 GMT -6
Since we went to "Six (wins) and in (playoffs)" several years ago, this has become a real issue in our state.
It has put more pressure on coaches and has caused the loss of traditional rivalries and dissolution-reorganization of leagues as schools try to schedule to get six wins.
My only concern is, are we on a level playing field with our opponents, or are we playing teams that have an undue competitive advantage over us?
I don't want to have to count on me out-coaching the other guy to win. I have found that doesn't work very often. |
|
|
|
Post by coachphillip on Nov 21, 2013 9:41:44 GMT -6
I feel you should put together a schedule that will average out to about where you're at as a program. If you're a power, schedule competitively. If you're lousy, schedule other lousy teams. If you're average, do your best to make sure everybody you play is just as average. Be honest with yourself about where you're at and schedule accordingly.
I don't think scheduling wins early on is cowardice because that's who you should be scheduling if you don't know how to win yet. If you're a 3, don't feel shame in scheduling other 3's.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachphillip on Nov 21, 2013 9:45:29 GMT -6
This hits close to home because our head coach was criticized openly by peers and critics for his scheduling. "He's scheduling the dog gone sisters of the poor!" I asked him about it once and he said, "We were 4-26 the past three years before I got here. If we're playing the sisters of the poor then it's intramural."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 9:54:55 GMT -6
With our schedule, the state of Iowa determines our district and non-district opponents. However, teams request others for the non-district and the state tries to honor these accordingly. I'm not a HC, but my preference would be to play one team we should beat, one team that could go either way, and then one team that should probably beat us but not absolutely kill us either for our three non-district games. But, determining who those teams are before the season is tough and the state may not give us those exact choices either.
|
|
|
|
Post by gibbs72 on Nov 21, 2013 10:06:50 GMT -6
I grew up in Kansas so I saw the Bill Snyder approach first hand. I go back and forth on it. I think you need success to get numbers up and breed confidence. Eventually, there will be harder teams and reality will set in. But, at first, without numbers and confidence, reality will still be there but you will go in with fewer kids and zero confidence. In Kansas, we don't have preseason or Jamborees. Without a summer team camp, we don't get any "practice" games. So I can see scheduling weaker teams if needed. Now, where I disagree with the policy is once you become a solid program, there is no need to schedule doormat teams.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachplaa on Nov 21, 2013 12:34:46 GMT -6
Nothing kills a team more than a serious blowout, and nothing helps a team like a win.
When I schedule, I like to have 1-2 non-league opponents I have confidence that we can win, and 1-2 that I know we are evenly matched with or will challenge us.
|
|
coachpsl
Sophomore Member
“Don’t Cuss. Don’t argue with officials. And don’t lose the game.” -John Heisman
Posts: 197
|
Post by coachpsl on Nov 21, 2013 12:44:11 GMT -6
If your team is not a established program I really think you need to put one "program builder/statement game" on the schedule if you go the "schedule a bunch of Ws route". By that I mean a team that if you win, that win will carry momentum throughout your community and hopefully throughout your halls. Sort of the "pick the biggest guy in the yard and go punch him in the mouth" strategy.
|
|
|
|
Post by blb on Nov 21, 2013 13:02:06 GMT -6
Most in our state are locked in to a certain number of league games. Some have crossovers with other divisions of same league either at beginning or last week of season.
What it has gotten to is some schools that may be middle of the pack in their league - let's say can reasonably plan on going 4-3 most seasons - will try to schedule their two OOC games against schools they could expect to beat most years so they can get to "Six and In."
|
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 21, 2013 17:35:47 GMT -6
Schedule any game in which you feel that you can be competitive. Only you know what your kids can/can't handle. Put them in a position to be competitive and then let the chips fall where they may.
Kids know when you play a quality opponent and when you don't. The satisfaction over a soft schedule will be short lived. In the same sense, the pain will linger if they are getting throttled all year long.
If you search for a competitive schedule (even if you are slightly overmatched), it will be one of those underdog wins that will be the defining moment for your turnaround.
|
|
|
|
Post by tango on Nov 21, 2013 18:28:22 GMT -6
Schedule your rival games and district games. For us that would only leave three games. Schedule the best you can to your level and local. We have been a good program for awhile and can't get games unless we play up or consistent winners. This year we were not very good but won 8 games. Just so happened that the consistently good teams were terrible. One team that normally wins 8+ games did not win a game.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachweav88 on Nov 21, 2013 18:40:47 GMT -6
I don't think the people doing the hiring and firing at a lot of schools understand what a "quality opponent" is, especially if you lose to them.
|
|
|
|
Post by falcon44 on Nov 21, 2013 22:25:04 GMT -6
Sadly,we did not have much of a choice in scheduling.Our District for soem reason waits until January to see what schools will go up or down in classification. So the other states schedules are full.I took over a HORRIBLE program(one of the states worst)everyone wanted to play us.Year 1 we win a few games,Year 2 is a new cycle and only the really good teams would play us.We beat a small school week one that no one thought could happen,add a couple more wins and we move to year 3.We were dropped by our week one opponent and our week 4 opponents school closed.we had to add Powerhouse teams in those weeks.Our schedule consisted of last years defending state champ,2 other schools that had won state championships and a former Maryland State champ.We ended with 3 wins and played most of our schedule tooth and nail.Would i have opted for 3 powderpuffs in this schedule?you bet your A**! Heck 2 would have gotten us into the playoffs. I am begging my AD to schedule some easier opponent because I have No choice but to play the 3 former state champs. I also agree with the above poster stating 8-2 against weaker opponents will get everyone on your bandwagon.3-7 against brutal comp,everyone says you suck!
|
|
|
|
Post by IronmanFootball on Nov 22, 2013 0:10:53 GMT -6
One thing I've noticed is that parents in our program can't tell the difference between good opponents and average opponents, or average and bad. They're just not dumb enough to see the difference between good and bad, but only if their son doesn't score a TD.
Schedule 6 like opponents, 2 cupcakes, 2 losses. If you're 6-4 you won't get fired. We played 2 cakes, 4 like opponents, and 4 losses and wound up 5 points from 6-4. I still have my gig.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachdawhip on Nov 22, 2013 5:29:56 GMT -6
I believe you have to have a happy medium.
I went 5-6 lost 1st round of the playoffs but played 3 playoffs teams non-conference, beat 1 on the road.
The other school in my county played cupcakes won all 4. He finished 7-4. Lost to me in the conference and I finished 2nd and he finished 3rd.
But my parents want to say, we beat them no way we should have had a losing record we underperformed. But we scheduled up trying to get ready for the playoffs he scheduled down.
Depending on my conference nxt year, I want 1 tough non-conference game, 1 that is even and the rest wins.
SELF-EFFICACY is the biggest thing we can do with kids.
|
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Nov 22, 2013 7:46:04 GMT -6
How are some of you able to schedule so many non conference games? We have 8 teams in our conference so 7 games right off the bat we have no control over. Then our thanksgiving day game, that's 8 we have no control over. That leaves two to three games we are able to schedule on our own. The past 4 years or so we have scheduled teams in the state's highest class.
As far as in building mode. I would schedule teams that are even to slightly worse like many of you have said. Just realize this can also backfire come playoff time or when you play important league games. When I was doing my internship a while back for teaching I did follow the football team a little bit although I was coaching somewere else. They played many weak teams and started the season something like 5-0. Then they finally played a bigger school, but they had a record of 1-4, and they got smoked. I worked with a few parents and they were saying stuff like the coaches didn't have them prepared, no way we should have lost to a 1 win team etc. Little did the parents know that although the opposing team only had 1 win, they were a much better team. Parents and normal fans don't understand this.
|
|
|
|
Post by 42falcon on Nov 22, 2013 7:53:32 GMT -6
We started here at a new school and stayed down in the lower 2 classifications till we got numbers. / buy into a culture. Our JR. & SR programs went 7-0 this year lost in the finals.
We think we r ready to move up to the top class. Tough part is 4/6 teams in our area are ranked in the top 15 in the country (Canada). So now instead of looking for tough games it's the opposite we will be looking for teams we can pound on... So that it evens it out / keeps the success there so we can sell losing a close one as building in D1. Eventually we will build in D1 to a point where we won't do this any more
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Nov 22, 2013 10:06:40 GMT -6
Scheduling W's makes sense if you're building a program that's been down for a while. If you want to get kids out, get them into the weight room, and raise funds you need to show some success. In a few years, if you aspire to become a top program, you need to get the soft touches off of the schedule but I do think that you need to start by scheduling for success.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 13:39:35 GMT -6
Best of average? Man, I'd kill to be undefeated or close to it right now, let alone be in the 2nd or 3rd round of the playoffs consistently.
As a coach trying to build a program right now, I am trying to schedule teams that we can compete with and win against. I'm not looking for teams that we can just destroy, because there may not be any, but teams that if we play out best or close to our best, we will beat.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachweav88 on Nov 22, 2013 16:12:22 GMT -6
One thing I've noticed is that parents in our program can't tell the difference between good opponents and average opponents, or average and bad. They're just not dumb enough to see the difference between good and bad, but only if their son doesn't score a TD. You've got that right. They just want wins. The only time they realize the difference between good wins and poor wins is when you've been winning a while and losing early in the playoffs. There is a smaller school team here in Ohio who are 10-0 almost every year...and every year they get into the playoffs and every year they have to play a team from the MAC conference and they get their a$$ handed to them every year. The difference...the 10-0 team is in a weak conference and play a week schedule. Meanwhile, the team that beats them comes from a league who routinely has 3 teams playing in the state finals. This year the 10-0 team had given up 73 points on the season. Lost in the 2nd round to the MAC team 35-28. Last year the went into the 3rd round of the playoffs 12-0 scoring over 40 points per game in all but game 1, lots of 50 & 70 point games. Lost to a different MAC team 20-0. IMO, they are good...but they are paper champions. They are good...but...they aren't really good. They are the best of average. In the last 5 years that team is 47-3...they were 7-3 in 2009, 40-0 since in the regular season. Smacked every year in the playoffs. I guess it all depends on how you define success. I am undefeated in Madden vs my 3 year old grand daughter...must mean I'm good right? Speaking of scheduling, this team is trying to get into the upper eschelon by scheduling a MAC team week 1. They also scrimmage another MAC team. They are starting to close the gap. That loss last week was with 29 seconds left. Last few years, they've been crushed by those teams |
|
|
|
Post by agjarrell on Nov 25, 2013 8:30:46 GMT -6
Coming from someone who came in late to a new school with murderers row of a schedule in central Texas and finished 0-10, wins are always more important. Some people realize what we were up against. Others just wanted us gone due to the "0-10" numbers. Get the wins first and establish your program, then go get some dude in the non district to prepare for playoff teams you may face. If we don't go better than 6-4 this year, we will be fired so we need wins, regardless of who it's against
|
|
|
|
Post by offcoach1 on Nov 25, 2013 20:11:55 GMT -6
guys i think the key to this discussion is where your program is. i have been fortunate to have had three head coaching jobs at three schools that were not good fb schools. my approach has been to schedule teams we can beat if we play well. it has worked for me at the first 2 schools. currently i just finished my 3rd year and this was my first schedule i made. quick history in the previous 4 seasons the team won a combined 9 games with the season before i took over they finished 0-10, we have won 1,2 and three games, my first 2 seasons we were not a good team combine that with the fact 8 teams on our schedule went to the playoffs. our teams attitude has improved work ethic has improved and our confidence heading into the offseason is good with very high expectations for next season. quick example we played a team that was in state semi's last season and made playoffs this season, we played over our heads and lost a very competitive game.
it has worked for me and it is my approach but isn't the only way but again it depends where your program is
|
|
|
|
Post by wingt74 on Nov 26, 2013 9:58:57 GMT -6
Schedule any game in which you feel that you can be competitive. Only you know what your kids can/can't handle. Put them in a position to be competitive and then let the chips fall where they may. Kids know when you play a quality opponent and when you don't. The satisfaction over a soft schedule will be short lived. In the same sense, the pain will linger if they are getting throttled all year long. If you search for a competitive schedule (even if you are slightly overmatched), it will be one of those underdog wins that will be the defining moment for your turnaround. to me, it's not about the kids that are in the program, it's about the kids who are not in the program. We won a thriller of a game 14-13, early in the season...and we had two kids come out immediately after, one of the quit soccer to play (bless is heart) I strongly agree with build a program by softening up the nc schedule. An established program...exact opposite. Need competitive games, that don't matter to get kids prepared for conf play. |
|
|
|
Post by newhope on Nov 26, 2013 10:22:47 GMT -6
Scheduling W's makes sense if you're building a program that's been down for a while. If you want to get kids out, get them into the weight room, and raise funds you need to show some success. In a few years, if you aspire to become a top program, you need to get the soft touches off of the schedule but I do think that you need to start by scheduling for success. Bingo! I couldn't agree more. |
|
|
|
Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 26, 2013 16:23:53 GMT -6
Schedule any game in which you feel that you can be competitive. Only you know what your kids can/can't handle. Put them in a position to be competitive and then let the chips fall where they may. Kids know when you play a quality opponent and when you don't. The satisfaction over a soft schedule will be short lived. In the same sense, the pain will linger if they are getting throttled all year long. If you search for a competitive schedule (even if you are slightly overmatched), it will be one of those underdog wins that will be the defining moment for your turnaround. to me, it's not about the kids that are in the program, it's about the kids who are not in the program. We won a thriller of a game 14-13, early in the season...and we had two kids come out immediately after, one of the quit soccer to play (bless is heart) I strongly agree with build a program by softening up the nc schedule. An established program...exact opposite. Need competitive games, that don't matter to get kids prepared for conf play. "Iron sharpens iron, just as one man sharpens another." It's just my belief that you get better with relative competition.
|
|
|
|
Post by buck42 on Dec 1, 2013 9:43:58 GMT -6
In North Carolina we have two year deals so we have to predict two years in advance. Not to mention realignment every four years. This past year realignment hit and we had to schedule five non conference opponents. We have a county rival that's not in our conference which is a toss up every year. The other 4 games we tried to schedule two wins, a competitive game and a game we MUST play lights out to win. It unfolded about like I predicted. My problem is that I lose 24 seniors...BC of our offensive packaged we have 15 starters...14 seniors and 10 more on defense...needless to say we have a reload/build for 2014. However, the same non conference schedule looks a lot more challenging BC of our youth.
I will always try to schedule the non conference with a couple wins, couple coin flips and a game we will need to play really well to win. As I reflect back to my high school days I had no idea who was good or bad across our area. Now I am a HC, I realize that our kids and certainly our parents have very little knowledge about our opponents. Wins bring out more kids...we added about 20 kids in our program after my first year...as we all know Jimmy and Joe win you games!
|
|
souza12
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179 
|
Post by souza12 on Dec 1, 2013 12:00:01 GMT -6
This hits close to home because our head coach was criticized openly by peers and critics for his scheduling. "He's scheduling the dog gone sisters of the poor!" I asked him about it once and he said, "We were 4-26 the past three years before I got here. If we're playing the sisters of the poor then it's intramural." You guys are alright... for what its worth, some people are going to criticize your HC no matter what. People dislike that man for the weirdest of reasons. |
|
