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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 18, 2013 8:18:02 GMT -6
I was listening online to a state semi-final game in Minnesota this past weekend. During the half time interview, the HC made an interesting statement. The reporter asked if he felt like the momentum had shifted in his favor, and he basically said, 'I don't really believe in momentum.'
I thought it was an interesting comment. I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has a similar philosophy, or has an idea of what he meant.
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 18, 2013 8:34:46 GMT -6
Momentum & confidence are two of the most overused words in football.
Along with the "changes". i.e. "Wow, momentum is really strong now" or "oh, his confidence is shot" or "that was a huge swing in momentum".
Might as well talk about luck.
A well executed play by the offense that catches the defense off guard can be "momentum"...with a Running back that doesn't use proper technique carrying the ball through the hole and fumbling can be a "momentum swing".
It's one thing to analyze a football game and say "their CBs are jamming the WRs at the line really well, and the Right DE's speed is too tough for the Tackle to handle, creating intense pass rush"
That takes a knowledgeable football mind to notice.
Anyone can say "wow, their passing game is poor because the QB's confidence is shot"
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 18, 2013 10:25:40 GMT -6
Momentum is for teams that self destruct and continue to unravel when things go bad, as well, those same teams play with more confidence and play harder when things are going well.
So in that sense its real.
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Post by coachphillip on Nov 18, 2013 10:43:42 GMT -6
I don't understand how a coach can say he doesn't believe in momentum. Just like Coach2013 stated, what many call "momentum" is simply how a team responds to adversity. I believe that some teams self destruct when faced with adversity and some teams rise up and overcome. Their reaction is in response to an unfortunate event during the game. So, if you believe that some things won't go your way and you believe your team or your opponent are effected by them, then you believe in momentum.
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 18, 2013 10:55:15 GMT -6
I don't understand how a coach can say he doesn't believe in momentum. Just like Coach2013 stated, what many call "momentum" is simply how a team responds to adversity. I believe that some teams self destruct when faced with adversity and some teams rise up and overcome. Their reaction is in response to an unfortunate event during the game. So, if you believe that some things won't go your way and you believe your team or your opponent are effected by them, then you believe in momentum. I'll agree to disagree here. In my opinion, when a team gets up on you 14-0 in the first three minutes because of a couple turnovers...and wins 35-0, I don't think you can ever say "our team didn't handle adversity too well", or," they got momentum early and we couldn't get it back". No, we lost 35-0 cause they were bigger, strong & faster. |
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 18, 2013 10:58:48 GMT -6
I don't understand how a coach can say he doesn't believe in momentum. Just like Coach2013 stated, what many call "momentum" is simply how a team responds to adversity. I believe that some teams self destruct when faced with adversity and some teams rise up and overcome. Their reaction is in response to an unfortunate event during the game. So, if you believe that some things won't go your way and you believe your team or your opponent are effected by them, then you believe in momentum. I'll agree to disagree here. In my opinion, when a team gets up on you 14-0 in the first three minutes because of a couple turnovers...and wins 35-0, I don't think you can ever say "our team didn't handle adversity too well", or," they got momentum early and we couldn't get it back". No, we lost 35-0 cause they were bigger, strong & faster. But what about when this happens to two equal teams in terms of talent? I definitely beleive in momentum and confidence. You see it all the time. Confidence is contagious. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 18, 2013 13:06:46 GMT -6
I'll agree to disagree here. In my opinion, when a team gets up on you 14-0 in the first three minutes because of a couple turnovers...and wins 35-0, I don't think you can ever say "our team didn't handle adversity too well", or," they got momentum early and we couldn't get it back". No, we lost 35-0 cause they were bigger, strong & faster. But what about when this happens to two equal teams in terms of talent? I definitely beleive in momentum and confidence. You see it all the time. Confidence is contagious. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Right. I guess I was just always brought up with the school of thought that momentum was something that could be created through a certain level of play. I didn't know there was another way of thinking until I heard the coach say that. I still think it's interesting. |
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 18, 2013 13:16:59 GMT -6
Coaches that beleive in momentum are the ones who "go for it" after a turnover. You see coaches all the time calling a play action home run ball, run a reverse, whatever play they feel has a chance of a td or a big play.
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Post by shields on Nov 18, 2013 13:31:10 GMT -6
Lou Holtz has been quoted many times saying there is no such thing as momentum. However, I'm not sure that applies to High School mentalities. The day after the Oregon-Stanford game, I mentioned to a member of my staff about how down 23-0 going into the fourth quarter, Oregon managed to pull themselves together and outscore Stanford 21-3. They still lost the game, but how many times have we seen high school athletes get down my what they deem as insurmountable odds and lay down as if they have nothing left to play for. The high school mind can be so fickle.
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 18, 2013 15:08:44 GMT -6
Momentum can shift back and forth during a game also. Oregon had the momentum in the 4th but thats about it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 16:23:08 GMT -6
Coaches that beleive in momentum are the ones who "go for it" after a turnover. You see coaches all the time calling a play action home run ball, run a reverse, whatever play they feel has a chance of a td or a big play. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Guilty |
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Post by td4tc on Nov 18, 2013 17:20:53 GMT -6
Coaches that beleive in momentum are the ones who "go for it" after a turnover. You see coaches all the time calling a play action home run ball, run a reverse, whatever play they feel has a chance of a td or a big play. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Guilty Guilty. Me too. Mr Momentum is everything. Almost everyone who has coached for a long time has been involved in an "avalanche game". Where the early breaks or turnovers don't go your way and it snowballs into every facet of the game and before you know it you are buried in an avalanche. Now if you could have a recipe to prevent this, (something you say or do or teach) you'd be a genius. We have all seen the timely timeout work in Bball but doesn't seem to have the same effect in Fball. Someone has to make a play to turn things back around. Happens in Golf, Tennis, Tiddlywinks and even Drinking Games |
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coachgrob
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Potential is just a cute way of saying you haven't done anything.
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Post by coachgrob on Nov 18, 2013 17:41:32 GMT -6
Momentum, perhaps your right. But "confidence", confidence is everything. Have it, you can overcome insurmountable odds lack it you can have a stable of d1 talent and go 2-8. I've seen both.
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Post by 33coach on Nov 18, 2013 19:42:08 GMT -6
I was listening online to a state semi-final game in Minnesota this past weekend. During the half time interview, the HC made an interesting statement. The reporter asked if he felt like the momentum had shifted in his favor, and he basically said, 'I don't really believe in momentum.' I thought it was an interesting comment. I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has a similar philosophy, or has an idea of what he meant. I agree with him. momentum is a loaded term. but I think the phenomenon exists.... a team that seems to do everything right, makes one mistake and the other team is able to capitalize... that happens all the time. Ive watched plenty of film and said things like: "wow..the loss can be traced back to this one play where my reciever slipped on a hook and we threw it right to the DB who was behind him" (actually happened this year) everything is going perfectly...then one thing goes wrong..then another...then another... and sometimes it seems like the only thing that gets you back on track is for the opponent to make a mistake .. whether i want to use the word momentum or not....im not sure. |
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 18, 2013 20:40:04 GMT -6
I was listening online to a state semi-final game in Minnesota this past weekend. During the half time interview, the HC made an interesting statement. The reporter asked if he felt like the momentum had shifted in his favor, and he basically said, 'I don't really believe in momentum.' I thought it was an interesting comment. I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has a similar philosophy, or has an idea of what he meant. I agree with him. momentum is a loaded term. but I think the phenomenon exists.... a team that seems to do everything right, makes one mistake and the other team is able to capitalize... that happens all the time. Ive watched plenty of film and said things like: "wow..the loss can be traced back to this one play where my reciever slipped on a hook and we threw it right to the DB who was behind him" (actually happened this year) everything is going perfectly...then one thing goes wrong..then another...then another... and sometimes it seems like the only thing that gets you back on track is for the opponent to make a mistake .. whether i want to use the word momentum or not....im not sure. I think I'm starting to understand the statement/philosophy a little better. If one doesn't believe in momentum, then he simply believes in the ebb and flow of the game and that's it. Plays that are either being made or not being made. I've heard people say, 'I don't believe in luck. You create your own luck.' I think that coach may have been saying, 'I don't believe in momentum. We create the position we are in based on our execution or lack thereof, nothing else matters.' |
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Post by coachphillip on Nov 18, 2013 23:22:34 GMT -6
I think you put in all that work so that when an opportunity comes along to seize momentum, you're well suited to do so. I understand not hiding behind momentum or using it as a sticky note that covers up deeper issues. But, there are definitely "key moments" in a game. They are key moments because of momentum.
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 19, 2013 11:52:37 GMT -6
Anyone who doesn't believe in "luck" and a game where the ball has two points and a couple of guys wearing zebra shirts with booze on their breath...well...theres luck.
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Post by 33coach on Nov 19, 2013 17:09:04 GMT -6
Anyone who doesn't believe in "luck" and a game where the ball has two points and a couple of guys wearing zebra shirts with booze on their breath...well...theres luck. its not luck its physics and math |
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Post by coach2013 on Nov 19, 2013 18:42:52 GMT -6
That explains why Im failing as a coach.
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Post by indian1 on Nov 19, 2013 19:15:29 GMT -6
I know I saw clinic notes somewhere with Chuck Martin from Notre Dame talking about being immune to momentum
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Post by cqmiller on Nov 20, 2013 22:34:54 GMT -6
p=mv
haha... I am teaching momentum right now in my physics classes. Had to pull out my inner nerd for a second.
But I would think his point was that he and his team still have control of their own destiny and if they can just focus on their jobs and not let the circumstances occurring at that particular moment to change what they do, then I agree 100%. The team who doesn't fall into the complacency of having a few plays go their way (momentum on their side) as well as not falling into the "poor us, we are in trouble" mentality will end up making the plays down the stretch.
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Post by RENO6 on Nov 21, 2013 14:30:33 GMT -6
Momentum is a term for spectators..not coaches or players
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 21, 2013 17:04:49 GMT -6
I think some try to ignore momentum if it isn't going in their direction. Or, deny its existence to help stay focused on the task at hand. I get that part.
However, I don't think many of us would deny some sense of "energy" that is felt when we recover a fumble, make an interception, or convert a third and one, with a minute left on the clock, inside the ten yard line, down by six, 4th quarter, no timeouts, going for a win that will get us into the playoffs.
Momentum may be a term for the people in the stands (fair enough), and as coaches we can rationalize it any way we want, but those 15-18 year olds running around out there know what it is that they feel. They're going to categorize it as only one thing...momentum.
P=mv
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 21, 2013 20:02:21 GMT -6
Whatever you call it, a snowball rolling down a hill, streaks exist. I think it has a lot to do with the mental side of things. I'm watching the WIAA division 4 game right now on TV and the announcer literally just used the word.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Nov 22, 2013 20:28:51 GMT -6
Momentum in a game of football can best be categorized in the area of Group Behavior (or group psychology) wherein people within the group experience deindividuation and do what all the others in the group are doing and feel the same emotional excitement that the others are feeling – a shared emotional state.
The primary group are the players on the field. This group is strongly influenced by its leaders, who transmit behavioral cues through their actions, words, facial expressions, body language, and tone of voice, which translate into group confidence or group doubt as the ebb and flow in the battle for the upper hand ensues.
The secondary group are the spectators. This group is also influenced by its leaders (usually the most vocal among them), and are strongly influenced by the actions and non-verbal cues from the players on the field. The players on the field are also influenced by the reactions from the crowd, which are attached to the level of emotional involvement that the crowd has towards the players on the field. Therefore, a very real synergy exists between the leaders, the players, and the spectators.
In view of this, the concept of momentum has more to do with emotion than with a gradual mounting of confidence on the part of the players.
I think all of us as coaches unconsciously recognize this and try to sway it in our favor. Getting the crowd behind you, teaching your players to show excitement when something good happens, getting excited when a great play is made, not showing weakness, pain, or being tired – when we teach these things to our kids we are teaching body language that will help us get or keep the momentum.
Coaches who reject the idea of momentum are blocking out an important aspect of the game, an aspect that you can exert INFLUENCE over. I have known a few coaches who were masters at it.
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Post by gpoulin76 on Nov 28, 2013 8:49:36 GMT -6
FWIW, we tell our players that weak-minded people who lack mental toughness use the word.
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Post by gamedaymusings on Dec 1, 2013 16:06:44 GMT -6
Momentum, in the sense that it is most commonly used, is nothing more than a subjective intangible feeling. Phrases like: "They have the momentum" or "the momentum has swung in the other direction" are used by commentators to describe which team's crowd is louder at any given point in the game.
To coaches and players, momentum is best described as two different emotions: 1. Exuberance, the high of a successful play or a lucky break. Or 2, disappointment, the deflating feeling of failure at a play or an unlucky break.
Both of these feelings are thoughts of the future; of the outcome of the game. We feel that we now have a better chance at winning, or we now have a worse chance at winning, or worse, a fear of losing. Either of these are bad for both players and coaches; they should be focused on the here and now. The outcome of the game is not the outcome of the game until the game is over. What do you tell your tee-ball team when they ask you the score every inning? "It's zero-zero". Don't think about the ending. Focus on what you need to do right now.
Regardless of where the momentum is at any given moment, your offense should be focused on scoring on the next play. Your defense should be focused on stopping the opposing team on the next play. That's it.
Taking the macro view, you don't want your team to worry about their dream of a championship season if they lose a game. Similarly, you don't want your team losing focus vs a weaker opponent because they've won the first 6 games to start the season.
That said, it is important for coaches to understand that momentum does affect players if they don't see things exactly the way you do. When rationality persists, these emotions don't interfere with players' focus as much i.e. there's still plenty of football left to play. However, when players are tired, when time is running short, when it feels like the game rests upon a single play, players are much more susceptible to the perception of momentum.
This is why it's irrational emotion speaking for players and coaches to say that one play or one penalty decided the whole game. No, it didn't. You could've scored in the first quarter. You could've made the stop at the goalline in the second. 7 points in the 1st quarter translates into 7 points at the end of regulation. They're not worth more at the end. They just feel that way. It's the coach's job to make sure that, at least during the game, players don't lose focus that way.
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