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Post by shields on Oct 31, 2013 4:16:08 GMT -6
As we enter the last two weeks of the regular season with an 0-9 record, we have been evaluating what changes are needed to "right the ship" so to speak. Do we do more? Do we do less? DO we completely change course? 1. I'm curious how you guys re-charge after a disappointing season. 2. What does your off-season look like in terms of preparation? (winter weightlifting, spring ball, etc.) 3. What do your summers look like? (weights, skill development, 7v7s)
In the past, we generally jump right in following the season. After a two week hiatus, we will get after schools weightlifting started for anyone not playing a winter sport. Same for during spring for those who don't play a spring sport. Over the summer, we lift M-Th (am and pm sessions so those who have jobs can come) and do a 7v7 each week. Are we asking too much from kids? For the duel basketball/football kids, many times they have to choose between football workouts and AAU.
I'm interested to hear your plans for Winter, Spring and Summer to assess what changes we can implement. What works best for your program? Thanks in advance.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 31, 2013 5:52:26 GMT -6
Why are you losing games?
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Post by M4 on Oct 31, 2013 5:54:06 GMT -6
I think at some point you need to give (and have) some time away from football, to recharge the desire. Is an extra 2 weeks of lifting in December really going to be the difference next October? Maybe, maybe not. But having a bit of time off does wonders for kids.
One thing I am starting to realize is that - strange as it is for me to understand - people (ie 17 year old males) have other interests outside of football. It's strange for me because I do not.
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Post by blb on Oct 31, 2013 5:56:26 GMT -6
A disastrous season such as you just experienced can shake a coach's confidence and lead one to question everything you're doing, from player development to Xs and Os.
While honest evaluation is important every year, even the highly successful ones, I would caution you against making wholesale changes.
If you coach long enough you'll have a season like that. I think most of the regulars on here can attest - I know I can. Usually it's caused by a drop off in talent level, injuries, caliber of competition, or combination thereof - not how program is organized-run.
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Post by blb on Oct 31, 2013 5:58:51 GMT -6
I think at some point you need to give (and have) some time away from football, to recharge the desire. Is an extra 2 weeks of lifting in December really going to be the difference next October? Maybe, maybe not. But having a bit of time off does wonders for kids. One thing I am starting to realize is that - strange as it is for me to understand - people (ie 17 year old males) have other interests outside of football. It's strange for me because I do not. Too much of a good thing, even Football, is still too much.
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Post by smfreeman on Oct 31, 2013 6:24:38 GMT -6
We will have workouts starting after a week break but we do not have mandatory attendance till January. For us we are not having a good season but we are rebuilding and our kids are excited to get in the weight room to get stronger and more competitive.
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Post by coach2013 on Oct 31, 2013 6:54:50 GMT -6
Usually, a rough season will be tied to a bad defense. Usually there are poor fundamentals and bad tackling and poor blocking on offense with far too many turnovers to overcome.
I will have shaken confidence and some anger at personnel that I played, cancerous behavior that we tolerated, coaches that were late or absent or going through the motions, my schemes and play calling, typically Ill question the defensive strategy or lack of physical contact in practice making us soft and so on.
What have I done differently?
1) tighten down on discipline- nothing slides. 2) create new incentives for off season weight training and conditioning 3) a greater emphasis on conditioning and discipline (make the athletes better) and contact. 4) smaller offensive playbook to allow more time to improve defense. 5) try to get better athletes out for the team and try to find better assistant coaches. 6) choose captains more wisely, not based on athleticism or grade level but by program buy in and attendance and leadership by example. 7) explore new xs and os and see what fits us. 8) build relationships /bonds in the off season. 9) fundraising, buy new uniforms and tee shirts to get some excitement going about the new season ahead. 10) film study, film study, film study. what worked, what didnt, tweak schemes.
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Post by jlenwood on Oct 31, 2013 7:04:35 GMT -6
Usually, a rough season will be tied to a bad defense. Usually there are poor fundamentals and bad tackling and poor blocking on offense with far too many turnovers to overcome. I will have shaken confidence and some anger at personnel that I played, cancerous behavior that we tolerated, coaches that were late or absent or going through the motions, my schemes and play calling, typically Ill question the defensive strategy or lack of physical contact in practice making us soft and so on. Do I coach with you!? This sums up our season remarkably well. I think the worst thing you can do is make wholesale changes to everything thinking that is going to make the situation better next year. We did that this season and never recovered because we anticipated being down because of lack of talent. What we failed to take into consideration was that with all of the changes we made, came a steep learning curve for a lot of players and coaches. Stick with what you know best, tweak but not change. Find out your strengths and weaknesses and (I may be different than some with this thought) FOCUS on your strength. Good luck.
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Post by shields on Oct 31, 2013 10:47:20 GMT -6
Why are you losing games? I believe we are losing games due to the following reasons: 1. Injuries. We have sustained a considerable number of concussions this year and have lost five seniors to season-ending injuries (ankle, two shoulders, and two knees). Due to this, the majority of our varsity team is sophomores (also due to a small junior class). 2. Lack of participation by two sport athletes. Two year string of injuries (add to the above list three knees and an ankle last season) has scared off many two sport athletes, especially those for which basketball or baseball is their favorite sport. These student-athletes aren't willing to play football and risk getting hurt and possibly missing out on playing their favorite sport. 3. Toughest 3A conference in NC. Our conference has produced the state champion three years in a row and the state runner-up two of the three seasons prior to that. A mostly sophomore team has struggled playing in that environment. There may be more reasons. I am continuing to evaluate...
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Post by shields on Oct 31, 2013 10:48:47 GMT -6
I think at some point you need to give (and have) some time away from football, to recharge the desire. Is an extra 2 weeks of lifting in December really going to be the difference next October? Maybe, maybe not. But having a bit of time off does wonders for kids. One thing I am starting to realize is that - strange as it is for me to understand - people (ie 17 year old males) have other interests outside of football. It's strange for me because I do not. I agree. As a staff, we have been discussing giving the kids off until January to re-charge their batteries.
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scottc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by scottc on Oct 31, 2013 11:21:21 GMT -6
We too enter our final week 0-9. We are looking at some of the things that coach2013 said [providing Im not fired]. The poster who said why you are losing has a valid point. we have started 4-5 sophs and 1-2 frosh almost every week so inexperience with a schedule where the combined record is about 15 games above .500 has led to our debacle. While we are going to get back offensively to my option preference scheme wise we are exploring HOW we teach and not WHAT we teach. We are also looking at ways to increase PERSONAL accountability in many ways from off season conditioning to in season conditioning. We are also going to try to find ways to increase competitiveness at all times. There was a thread on this earlier we are going to explore. I am going to visit some other programs to see how they run their programs day to day and see what is doable they do that we can incorporate.
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 31, 2013 11:23:30 GMT -6
We don't have mandatory lifts until January. Kids need to be kids.
Get back to basics: blocking, tackling, taking care of the football. It seems like you guys are young and going through an unlucky patch with team injuries. You'll be fine as long as you hold to your core values and make sure that your actions have been properly aligned with those values. Control what you can.
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Post by dubber on Oct 31, 2013 11:54:37 GMT -6
Why are you losing games? I believe we are losing games due to the following reasons: 1. Injuries. We have sustained a considerable number of concussions this year and have lost five seniors to season-ending injuries (ankle, two shoulders, and two knees). Due to this, the majority of our varsity team is sophomores (also due to a small junior class). 2. Lack of participation by two sport athletes. Two year string of injuries (add to the above list three knees and an ankle last season) has scared off many two sport athletes, especially those for which basketball or baseball is their favorite sport. These student-athletes aren't willing to play football and risk getting hurt and possibly missing out on playing their favorite sport. 3. Toughest 3A conference in NC. Our conference has produced the state champion three years in a row and the state runner-up two of the three seasons prior to that. A mostly sophomore team has struggled playing in that environment. There may be more reasons. I am continuing to evaluate... Your first reason is either bad luck, or poor off season conditioning. Your second reason is probably your bigger issue. You need numbers. Spend time learning to overcome this......until you do, nothing else is really going to matter. Your third reason is an opportunity. View it as such. What's the youth program like? Any involvement there?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 12:19:13 GMT -6
Why are you losing games? I believe we are losing games due to the following reasons: 1. Injuries. We have sustained a considerable number of concussions this year and have lost five seniors to season-ending injuries (ankle, two shoulders, and two knees). Due to this, the majority of our varsity team is sophomores (also due to a small junior class). 2. Lack of participation by two sport athletes. Two year string of injuries (add to the above list three knees and an ankle last season) has scared off many two sport athletes, especially those for which basketball or baseball is their favorite sport. These student-athletes aren't willing to play football and risk getting hurt and possibly missing out on playing their favorite sport. 3. Toughest 3A conference in NC. Our conference has produced the state champion three years in a row and the state runner-up two of the three seasons prior to that. A mostly sophomore team has struggled playing in that environment. There may be more reasons. I am continuing to evaluate... you don't win with soph at the varsity as a general rule...so you can cut yourself a break on that Are they legit two sport athletes...meaning are they atheletes or do they just play two sports? If they are athletes there are ways to cut down the chances of them being injured...if they just play two sports....well maybe its time to just play one. Where I am baseball is easier to handle in work/game ratio...If they are athletes...Just get them out there at whatever cost...don't bother with kids who aren't athletes...let em play bb...either one.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 31, 2013 18:24:32 GMT -6
We just finished 1-8 and met as a staff and most of what coach2013 was on the list. We are going to visit a successful established HS program outside of our area of competition to see what it is we can tweak. I think we really need a fresh set of eyes on our issues.
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Post by coachbowlin on Oct 31, 2013 20:02:04 GMT -6
We are 1-8. With one more game tomorrow night. We have played 5 top 5 teams in the state. Two of which was ranked #1 when we played them. We started the season with little experience and little discipline. Our only win came this season via forfeit because the team played an ineligible player.The team last year before I came in went 0-11. Guess I can say its an improvement since we got a win, however, its not the way you want to win, so I still consider us 0-9.
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Post by shields on Nov 1, 2013 3:50:43 GMT -6
Dubber, we are making in-roads with the youth programs. Our youth level (elem. aged kids) use our terminology and have open lines of communication. I work closely with the youth level coaches and we hold camps and clinics for these kids several times throughout the year. The issue is the middle school. We lose a lot of kids at that level. I am working hard to get that program on board, but all I have been able to do so far is speak to the team several times before their games. I have a lot more work that needs to be done with that program. Any advice on how to get something going would be appreciated. The middle school coach will not give me the time of day. He is one or two years away from retirement and has been unwilling to work with the high school.
As far as our off-season conditioning program, we model much of our strength philosophy after that of Ethan Reeve of Wake Forest University. He believes you train on your feet as much as possible (because you don't play on your back) and training the push with the pull (e.g. push press followed by pull-ups). This has been the philosophy four schools I have coached at but we plan to review what we are doing in the weightroom in depth once the season has ended. Also, after last year's three ACL tears, we spent time with several local orthopedics and increased our stretching/warm-up routine--we now stretch before and after workouts and have increased the amount of time we spend stretching.
As far as numbers, I recruit the heck out of the school. We are on a block schedule and in the spring I ask for third period planning which allows me to be available to go to the cafeteria during lunch. I spend January through May about three days a week at lunch recruiting kids to play football. I pretty much become the most visible person in the school. I'm not sure what else I can do, but I am open to suggestions as to what others do to get kids to come out (outside of the obvious-WINNING).
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Post by dubber on Nov 1, 2013 9:27:34 GMT -6
Dubber, we are making in-roads with the youth programs. Our youth level (elem. aged kids) use our terminology and have open lines of communication. I work closely with the youth level coaches and we hold camps and clinics for these kids several times throughout the year. The issue is the middle school. We lose a lot of kids at that level. I am working hard to get that program on board, but all I have been able to do so far is speak to the team several times before their games. I have a lot more work that needs to be done with that program. Any advice on how to get something going would be appreciated. The middle school coach will not give me the time of day. He is one or two years away from retirement and has been unwilling to work with the high school.
As far as our off-season conditioning program, we model much of our strength philosophy after that of Ethan Reeve of Wake Forest University. He believes you train on your feet as much as possible (because you don't play on your back) and training the push with the pull (e.g. push press followed by pull-ups). This has been the philosophy four schools I have coached at but we plan to review what we are doing in the weightroom in depth once the season has ended. Also, after last year's three ACL tears, we spent time with several local orthopedics and increased our stretching/warm-up routine--we now stretch before and after workouts and have increased the amount of time we spend stretching. As far as numbers, I recruit the heck out of the school. We are on a block schedule and in the spring I ask for third period planning which allows me to be available to go to the cafeteria during lunch. I spend January through May about three days a week at lunch recruiting kids to play football. I pretty much become the most visible person in the school. I'm not sure what else I can do, but I am open to suggestions as to what others do to get kids to come out (outside of the obvious-WINNING). Yeah, I don't suppose there is much you can do on that one. (or can you?) Our JH coaches work well with us, and that makes a big difference. What else do you do in the recruiting department? You may want to focus on those dozen or so athletes you know would make a difference immediately and spend a little more time on them. In sales, you only have so much time and resources, so you spend it on the people who can help you. I would suggest sending some hand written notes to those "A-list" kids. Show up at their sporting events and send them a note after they have a good game. Kids don't choose not to play because they don't like football.......they choose not to play (or do anything) because they perceive that they aren't cared about.........overcome that, and you'll have more kids.
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Post by shields on Nov 1, 2013 10:31:10 GMT -6
Dubber,I agree and will take you up on hand-written notes and going to some basketball games. As far as the middle school, I had visions of meeting with the principal over there after the season for a heart-to-heart visit. Do you think that will help get them on board?
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Post by fantom on Nov 1, 2013 10:33:32 GMT -6
Dubber,I agree and will take you up on hand-written notes and going to some basketball games. As far as the middle school, I had visions of meeting with the principal over there after the season for a heart-to-heart visit. Do you think that will help get them on board? What do you mean by "Get them on board"?
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Post by cvaughan598 on Nov 1, 2013 11:16:43 GMT -6
Work on the OL and ride #32... Kid is a player! Looking forward to seeing him develop. Attending their sporting events is always good. I like the idea of hand written notes as well. As for the weight room, push-pull is always good, but make sure you are doing lifts that translate to the football field. Specifically cleans and the like for lineman. Explosion lifts and exercises like kettle bells. Keep working with them... They play hard for you.
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Post by shields on Nov 1, 2013 11:18:23 GMT -6
1. When I first got hired, I invited the middle school HC over to talk ball. We met two days in a row, the first to talk offense, the second to talk defense. He came in, sat on the sofa in the coaches office and fell asleep within five minutes of being there. That's complete disrespect. 2. When we have camps in the summer, he doesn't stop by even though he is invited. He doesn't encourage his players to come (we go over to the middle school and invite the kids in an assembly type presentation). 3. Whenever I see him out in the community, he has nothing but negative things to say about his players. E.g. "We've got no athletes." 4. I get coaches to volunteer their time to go over to the middle school and help at practice when their season is starting and he never acknowledges their even being there to help him. It's just a bad situation. But one I would like to fix.
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Post by fcboiler87 on Nov 1, 2013 11:25:58 GMT -6
Here, we were able to get in written into the HC's contract that he controls the middle school staffing. In other words, he can hire and fire anyone on staff there. That way, they should be in line or they won't be coaching. That makes a tremendous difference. Then the problem can become finding good people to take on that role.
I don't know that I'd invite him to join you at things, I'd tell him he HAS to be there considering the role that he has.
I'm not really sure what options you have, but keeping him doesn't really seem like one.
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Post by fantom on Nov 1, 2013 11:47:12 GMT -6
1. When I first got hired, I invited the middle school HC over to talk ball. We met two days in a row, the first to talk offense, the second to talk defense. He came in, sat on the sofa in the coaches office and fell asleep within five minutes of being there. That's complete disrespect. 2. When we have camps in the summer, he doesn't stop by even though he is invited. He doesn't encourage his players to come (we go over to the middle school and invite the kids in an assembly type presentation). 3. Whenever I see him out in the community, he has nothing but negative things to say about his players. E.g. "We've got no athletes." 4. I get coaches to volunteer their time to go over to the middle school and help at practice when their season is starting and he never acknowledges their even being there to help him. It's just a bad situation. But one I would like to fix. Is it possible that you're inadvertently giving off a bad vibe to him? As I read this, it seems that he is not directly in your chain of command. It may be that what you see as friendly outreach, he sees as trying to take over his program. When you invited him to talk about your offense and defense, maybe you gave the impression that you expect him to run your system. Maybe, as a veteran coach, he was less than thrilled to be lectured on football by a younger guy. Maybe when you send coaches to help at his practice he sees that as a sign of disrespect for his abilities and program. Maybe none of this is the case. Maybe he wanted somebody else to get your job. Maybe he's just an old douche (who was a young douche twenty years ago). You have no control over that. If you are doing things that he takes as disrespectful (even if you don't mean to) maybe there's a way to modify how you deal with him.
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Post by blb on Nov 1, 2013 12:03:55 GMT -6
Building administrators (in this case, Middle School) are often happy these days just to get a warm body to coach their teams, especially if the coach is in the building.
You should have found out when interviewing how much Vertical Continuity there is in the program, i.e. how much control you have over MS Football.
If it wasn't-isn't there, unlikely you will get it now. Would take Superintendent (or AD if latter also runs MS sports) to mandate that and they don't like to tell other administrators how to run their buildings unless it has to do with standardized testing, graduation and dropout rates - things THEY get evaluated on.
The other thing is, shields, you could spend an inordinate amount of time trying to work with MS and coach - and you not be the head coach at that school by the time those kids reach 11th grade.
Focus your time-energy in that which you can control, the HS program.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 4, 2013 13:35:21 GMT -6
This would be the biggest thing that I would focus on most. Create a list of competitions that you can do in the off season. We had a draft. Kids picked groups. We would then have a competition at the end of each week. Crown a winner. My wife found an old plastic(old school) WWF belt at a garage sale. The kids loved it. Anything that creates competition, do it. JMO, give yourself, your staff, and kids some time to re-charge. We often interpret (because we are losing) that we MUST get right back to work, when we often need to take time away. Sometimes our competitive nature doesn't allow us to slow down. They should be clawing at the door...in January.
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Post by shields on Nov 5, 2013 10:41:14 GMT -6
I agree some time off might be greatly needed. But I've got kids and coaches already scheming to get in there two weeks after the season. I like the WWF belt deal! We have done t-shirts for motivation in the past, but I really like the belt idea. Shocktroop34, what are some of the competitions you have done in the past?
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Post by shocktroop34 on Nov 5, 2013 18:55:56 GMT -6
For instance:
Curl bar lift (bench bar, no weight) Push ups (fist of partner on ground under chest to count legit reps) Chin ups Bench press bar (no weight) Squats with just 45's Wall sits 8 count push ups 4 count mountain climbers (1,2,3,...1) Sit ups Weighted Mile (the whole group runs with a 45 plate and pass when the get tired. First group that finishes the mile wins) 400 meter dumbbell lunges (each person does 10 at a time and rotates. First to finish 400m wins...killer)
Anything that you can count! Kids ate it up. Really helped with identity in the offseason.
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orion320
Sophomore Member
"Don't tell me about the labor just show me the baby!"
Posts: 211
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Post by orion320 on Nov 5, 2013 21:15:12 GMT -6
Luckily we are still playing this season but usually we are done by this point.
A friend and I were talking the other day, there is actually no rule against practicing even if you don't have a game. I don't think this is the way to go but it's a thought.
Be sure to take a break, meet with coaches, see what changes need to be made. Mostly likely the changes that need to be made are very minor.
My suggestion would be to find a way to make your practices more intense and competitive. We did this the past two seasons and we went from being a 3 win team to being a solid program frosh through varsity the past three season. Treat every rep, every drill, every thing you do as a competition. Preach that losing is not an option, not in agility drills, weight room, classroom, indy time, etc.
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Post by newhope on Nov 6, 2013 10:23:36 GMT -6
I agree with orion about intensity at practice. I think it is a key to success. It takes a while for the players and staff to understand what the expectation is as far as intensity at practice. At my previous school, the whole staff was on board from the get-go (a lot of like minds). Where I am now, the offensive guys (with me) have pretty much got it and the player's intensity on offense is great. When we go to defense, it's not the case. Those coaches are more laid back and the players' intensity changes as well. I actually find that kind of odd, since you would expect the defense to have the most intensity. I think it also transfers over to Friday night where we are much more successful offensively than defensively--much more physical, play with more intensity.
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