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Post by kurtbryan on Mar 25, 2008 10:49:20 GMT -6
Coaches:
I was talking with a former player who was always very bright - a good young coach in the making back then, you could see it.
Anyway, it got me thinking about the times over the past two decades when I have used the exact Play Call suggestions from some of my players During a Game.
Most of the time - their suggestions have worked well. There have been some great ones - and one time I remember back in 1987, we were in the Red Zone and I froze up in my first year as an OC.
One of my favorite players was standing next to me on the sideline and he could see I was gonna blow it cause I was Blank.
He turned to me and casually said, "How about the Reverse Pass? It looks good to me?"
I grinned, smiled, called in the play and we Scored on the Reverse Pass for a TD to blow the game open from that point on!
Do you guys ever use the Exact Play Call from your players during a game at that moment?
KB
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Post by coachbw on Mar 25, 2008 10:57:15 GMT -6
At a previous school, we let the kids call the plays in the huddle. We taught them when were good times to be conservative and agressive, what we wanted to run against a certain front or coverage, etc.
The did a really nice job. The biggest thing they did (that we didn't always do) was to attack personnel. They had no problem telling the QB "I can beat this DT every play" or the other way, they would tell the QB "i can't kick this guy out we can't run G" or whatever that they weren't comfortable telling us.
After reading your post and thining about it, this is maybe something that we should get back to doing more of.
As far as having a kid give me an actual play call the years that I have called the game . . . I typically do not have much conversation with the kids during a series. Usually it would be between series. I think we have had kids make some suggestions during a timeout that we then ran, but that is about it.
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Post by ajreaper on Mar 25, 2008 11:02:15 GMT -6
Not only do I often take their suggestions I will also ask them in the huddle during a timeout- we need the 1st what do you guys think? It gives them ownership in what is being called and I think that's very important, particualrly in critical situations.
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Post by casec11 on Mar 25, 2008 11:05:39 GMT -6
Last year we had a singlewing series we used in a few games, one game nothing was working, especialy a reverse/counter we had run twice for a loss of yards (later film showed the ballcarrier trying to go outside the kickout, hole was there) This same ball carrier turned to me and said we should fake the reverse and have the TB keep it, I thought that a good Idea so told them to run it and it went for a 70 yard TD that was a spark that our O needed to get going. BTW the kid was 13 Another game a kid (12) was messing with the white board before the last game and showed me all the recievers to one side unballenced and wide, with two plays a screen and a qb keep back side, I let them run the qb keep in our last game and it went for like 50 yards.
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Post by bluecrazy on Mar 25, 2008 12:28:42 GMT -6
I always ask the kids, especially the inner lineman, "what are you seeing out there"? They know more than we can see at times. We then make adjustments from what they tell us.
And yes, I have run plays that they suggest. Works out most of the time, but not always. You have to know what kids to listen to.
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Post by kurtbryan on Mar 25, 2008 13:19:42 GMT -6
Like AJ said, I ask the kids all the time. When they come off the field I ask, how is ______ blitz working for you? and they will tell me. Then I ask them what they think and they tell me. Hell, I can't even get my guy in the box to give me play suggestions. Oh sure, when we're up by 28 he never shuts up, has a million suggestions, but if it's 5-0 (and yes it's happened) and the wing-t has the ball inside our 5 yd line with under 3:00 left all of a sudden he's a deaf mute. By the way, in that game, I asked the defense what they wanted, the MIKE spoke up and said "we're good in base coach", everyone else was "yea" "that's right" "base". So we played base, we held, ended up taking a safety with :18 seconds left to win 5-2. The first time I went out in the huddle this year, as the DC at a different school I asked the kids what they thought and they looked at me like I was speaking dolphin or something. The CB spoke up and said "you're the coach". Haha...it took a little bit but we finally got a pretty good working relationship. I also think it's essential in a critical situation. NOTHING like a great laugh, that was a darn funny reply, and lots of good ones so far..."speaking dolphin" too funny. KB ;D
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Post by dubber on Mar 25, 2008 14:29:48 GMT -6
I think part of the reluctance to this is the control-freak nature of coaches.
Heck, if you run a simple offense like the Air Raid, and coach your QB how to call plays, why not just let him run the show, and talk to him in between series?
PROS:
*I bet he takes film study alot more seriously. *Great for no huddle *Player-owned offense
CONS:
*When things go bad and the reciever gets into the QB's ear *Starter goes down and unsure back-up goes in
Maybe having the QB calling the plays is too extreme.
But definitely have conversations with him about what he sees inbetween series
(rambling concluded)
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Post by jhanawa on Mar 25, 2008 17:47:34 GMT -6
Playcalling is mostly overated and occasionally underated. I like the kids knowing and seeing whats going on and having ownership in it. I've had some smart kids make good suggestions in good situations. That makes me feel good that they know what is going on with the big picture, not just the man in front of them.
I give a lot, probably A LOT more freedom to my QB to call plays and to change plays than most coaches do. My reasoning is simple, I make a guess (when huddling) or a call (when no huddle) and then the defense shows something nasty for the play I've called, its usually a wasted down. The QB can salvage the down with a decision (we work hard on decision making) and get us into something better, but probably not worse. Generally, when we call plays off the wristband, they are specific in play and direction. When we signal plays in, they are a play type, the QB will determine and then call the actual direction based on the defensive alignment. This involvment in the decision process has worked well for us.
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Post by eickst on Mar 25, 2008 17:47:48 GMT -6
I think there are a lot of times when at the very least you can have players at certain positions watch for certain things and alert you.
Letting the players call the play is too much IMO, but I coach YOUTH FOOTBALL, not HS, so maybe the players at HS are smarter than mine. I have to explain what a first down is and alert the team that we are playing defense now, or that the quarter is over so now we are facing this way.
I think if I let my players pick a play it would be "Annexation of Puerto Rico" on every down.
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Post by gschwender on Mar 25, 2008 18:07:30 GMT -6
I like to do it depending on the kid. If it someone that knows what we can/cannot do and is serious about the game. I will not take one from a guy that has questionble work ethic/study habits etc. but will often ask in a huddle what some of them think--they have the best view during a game and know if they can whip their guy for something big. It also shows them that the coaching staff and the kids are a part of the same team and that their opinions or even gut feelings matter. Usually in the huddle when i ask the question and someone gives a suggestion others might say yeah that will work etc. or i might have a variation of their suggestion but everyone must be on the same page and understand what he/they can do against a team or even the guy they are lined up against. You cannot do it every time but just asking their input makes them stick with you in the long run. I find it more useful in time outs and at halftime when making some adjustments. Especially at half-time b/c you have "the eye in the sky", what you see from the sidelines, and what the kids see across from them.
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Post by fbdoc on Mar 25, 2008 19:01:12 GMT -6
Over the years I've done it many times, and over the years I've also said "I like that call, but maybe later in the game..." when I felt it might not work. Timing is EVERYTHING! I had a VERY smart/talented QB 4 years ago and on the rare occassions he suggested a play, we ran it! Sometimes it worked - most of the time it worked! If it didn't, we still felt it was a good call.
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Post by CoachDaniel on Mar 25, 2008 22:44:45 GMT -6
I'm learning to be less stubborn (stupid). I've had players in the past tell me, "___ blitz" isn't working because they have 1.5" splits, we should run "___ blitz." Well you're just going to have to find a way, because on film and paper this should've worked! Not the best response.
I remember a sophomore linebacker we had a few years ago coming to the DC at the time in one game, he said "Coach when the QB does this, I can sack him." He replied, "Um, okay then." We go back out, sure enough QB did 'this' and sack! He came over after that series with, "Coach when the QB does this, I can intercept the ball." "Alright." Why start doubting him now? Boom, pick. He's at UVA now. No one else has been quite that impressive in their play calling, including me.
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Post by morris on Mar 26, 2008 5:22:50 GMT -6
Scott Smith has his QB every TO come over and say Yard line Position (hash/middle) Play that he likes Sometimes he goes with it and sometimes he does not.
Now this past year we had a extremely good Oline (MS). I told our center at the beginning of the year that I gave him the green light to adjust blocking. Worked extremely well for us and at times we looked like a zone team because of how they would adjust. They could cut splits or whatever.
I ask my RB at key times what he wants or feels good about. In other years I have asked players because I want to know what they feel good about. I know who to listen to. We have won a number of games with that approach.
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htownoc
Sophomore Member
GATA
Posts: 186
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Post by htownoc on Mar 26, 2008 6:35:21 GMT -6
We usually get players opinions on short yardage situations- QB sneak or punt? Also our QB has the freedom to check to uncovered receivers, tag a go route vs cover 0 and this year we are going to try to teach him a couple simple rules to check between running zone/iso/counter. The only problem I had with it last year was that he didn't check uncovered enough.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2008 6:39:55 GMT -6
I start it in our red zone session of practice with my LB who calls the plays. He can't just call what he likes, has to call based on what he thinks--which also comes from us talking to him about the game, what they'll do at certain times, etc.
It gets them to think critically.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 26, 2008 8:20:13 GMT -6
We always ask our kids - the ones who are IN the game. This would be at the Varsity level.
Not a big deal as by the time the kids are VARS in our program they understand what we are trying to attack as well as the coaches do.
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Post by coachsky on Mar 26, 2008 8:54:00 GMT -6
Our Lineman help us out a lot. The last couple years most of our lineman have been AP kids and our skill guys have been autoshop kids.
They do a great job telling us how good thier D-line is in terms of technique. They can tell us pretty quickly if we can Trap, Trey, Screen. They are also good at identifying a weak player that we can easily move.
Our QB tells us he can throw long every play!
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Post by seagull73 on Mar 26, 2008 19:35:11 GMT -6
If my QB says to run it I do about 90% of the time. Funny he never thinks running the ball is a good idea.
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Post by coachweav88 on Mar 26, 2008 19:48:48 GMT -6
Do you guys ever use the Exact Play Call from your players during a game at that moment? Absolutley! If the players are confident, they will usually execute. I had a situation when I was calling the JV offense where it was a critical third down and we were rotating tailbacks. The TB going in was having a very good game and he said run 76 coach, I'm going to get it. I knew that he was confident and determined to get that first down, so I went with it. Next play, TD. If you get it into kids' minds that it's going to work, many times it will. If they gey get it in their minds themselves, even better. I usually go with it.
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 26, 2008 19:54:24 GMT -6
when i played my OC would always tlak to me inbetween series and i would tell him what i thought was open. Sometimes he would run what i said right away, sometimes later in the drive, but he always called what i told him was going to be open
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Post by coachflah on Mar 27, 2008 8:01:53 GMT -6
I tell my offensive line during pre-game meetings, to be prepared to draw up the front by the second offensive series. I want them to be able to know the techniques and how the Lbers are playing (down-hill, over the top). I then ask what they feel the most effective plays are based upon the alignments and the type of players they are facing. I've found this to be successful to our offense. I can tell by alignment which plays are best, but I need my players to tell me what kind of player is aligned in those positions and whether he can handle him or not.
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CoachJ
Junior Member
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 27, 2008 10:54:54 GMT -6
Almost anytime a kid that I trust makes a suggestion, it gets ran. Of course there is always 1 or 2 kids a year that are those strange guys that talk too much and you basically have to politely ignore their many suggestions.
This may make me unpopular in coaching circles, but I believe the football team and its success belongs to the players. They are the ones, not me, that decide the outcome of the game. My role is to provide guidance, discipline, knowledge, and skills necessary to succeed. Baiscally give them the opportunity to succeed, but they have to do it. Not one thing I can do guarantees the desired peformance. So if they recognize a weakness and are proactive enough to know how to attack it and knowledgeable enough to give me an exact play they want to run, then by all means that is what we will do.
I have known a lot of coaches out there that would love to say they are the reason for their team success. Their schemes, their knowledge, their abilities, their coaching style, their will has practically forced their players to be great. I don't believe that for a second. I think coaches can create and environment that leads to the success of their players, but a really good coach in my opinion doesn't need to take credit or put the spotlight on themselves.
When you don't need credit, it is a lot easier to let someone else contribute.
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Post by kurtbryan on Mar 27, 2008 11:03:19 GMT -6
This may make me unpopular in coaching circles, but I believe the football team and its success belongs to the players. They are the ones, not me, that decide the outcome of the game. My role is to provide guidance, discipline, knowledge, and skills necessary to succeed. Baiscally give them the opportunity to succeed, but they have to do it. Not one thing I can do guarantees the desired peformance. So if they recognize a weakness and are proactive enough to know how to attack it and knowledgeable enough to give me an exact play they want to run, then by all means that is what we will do.
I have known a lot of coaches out there that would love to say they are the reason for their team success. Their schemes, their knowledge, their abilities, their coaching style, their will has practically forced their players to be great. I don't believe that for a second. I think coaches can create and environment that leads to the success of their players, but a really good coach in my opinion doesn't need to take credit or put the spotlight on themselves.
When you don't need credit, it is a lot easier to let someone else contribute. [/quote]
Great Reply, and I agree with 99% of that but would add one thing that I teach our players:
If we Lose the game - I take 100% of the blame and NEVER blame a player - never have and never will
If we Win the game - the players get most of the credit but I always praise the assistant coaches too and spread the credit, and I never toot my own horn, ever.
These two credos have worked well to enhance Total Team Unity.
KB
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bodaad
Freshmen Member
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Post by bodaad on Mar 27, 2008 11:07:06 GMT -6
We had a three year starter at QB who was great as long as he was given a play, several times during his career we let him go with what he thought would work, never did. At half time I would ask him what he saw open (I was in the booth) and then twist it to fit what the Head Coach and I planned for changes, it worked great, we got our changes, and he felt we were doing what he wanted.
We had a stud d-line men one year, who had a talent for reading the offense pre-snap, so by the end of the year we let him line up where he thought the play was going and also any slants, stunts. He singlehandedly shut down a few offenses that were, at least to him predictable
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Post by coachorr on Mar 28, 2008 12:26:56 GMT -6
In regard to play calling. I think it should be practiced in such a way that "everyone" coaches and players know what the call is probably going to be giuven the situation, because you have practiced it. That said, I think kids who are smart and want involvement can aid in the discussion. In all reality, if you have done a good job as a staff, you could have a pet monkey in the booth calling plays on Friday night. There is no magic call.
Ownership and empowerment is great, however, I don't believe it is good to let the inmates run the assylum. Not every kid can handle that kind of respoinsibility, but communication of a play through the coach can be effective.
Remember, kids may have a false sense of reality in the game and they are not objective in the call of the play. How many times has a kid come to the sideline and has said, " I was wide open call the same thing and throw it to me". When in reality he was only open because the coverage was over when the ball was released, so he thought he was open but was not.
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Post by coachorr on Mar 28, 2008 12:31:26 GMT -6
Coach J, AMEN. Nice post.
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