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Post by airraider on Oct 21, 2013 17:11:30 GMT -6
Have a sr QB who had a terrible start to the season.. threw 5 picks in week 1 and 3 more in week 2...
He had a melt down during week 2 and did not want to go back in.. dang near in tears and really displayed actions that I have never seen in a high school player.
His mom had him put on anti-anxiety medicine and he is a changed man! He has since thrown for 7tds in 3 different games... has just under 3000 yards passing in 9 games and no longer puts his head down when things go wrong.
I have had him since his freshman year, and ANYTIME something goes wrong that chin goes to his chest... not since being on the medicine.
I did research to try to see if any NCAA/NFL QB's have dealt with the same issues, but could not find anything.
Anyone have any experience with this?
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Post by ramcoachdc on Oct 21, 2013 17:34:48 GMT -6
We have all the same syptoms with our Sr. QB...except there is no happy ending and his mom just buys him excuses.
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Post by airraider on Oct 21, 2013 19:30:48 GMT -6
We have all the same syptoms with our Sr. QB...except there is no happy ending and his mom just buys him excuses. It is really hard to have a team follow a guy begging to be pulled...
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Post by dsqa on Oct 21, 2013 20:47:02 GMT -6
Aside from the pharmaceutical solution, you are highlighting what I believe is the single greatest weakness in QB development and execution
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Post by dubber on Oct 22, 2013 10:27:45 GMT -6
Aside from the pharmaceutical solution, you are highlighting what I believe is the single greatest weakness in QB development and execution Coach, I would love for you elaborate. Having seen some of your stuff, I know you have some great insight.
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Post by dsqa on Oct 22, 2013 21:48:48 GMT -6
Failure on the scale airraider mentioned his QB experienced can produce serious embarrassment and loss of confidence in anyone, at any age, much less a 17 year old young man under pressure. The knee jerk reactions mentioned in the first two posts are not hard to understand. The kid's anxiety over future failure is real and so is his awareness of the coach's expectation that the failure needs to stop. Combine these two things and the pressure only mounts... kids can experience a full range of emotions, and even freeze up or make rash requests to get out of the heat.
I'm not a doctor, but it would appears that the anti-anxiety medication blocks whatever is stirred up in the body when the QB is challenged with pressure he felt before, but its hard to say whether the deeper issue that caused the reaction is being masked or because he had a little success, that was all that was needed to make things better and the medication helped him over the hump. Often the latter is all that is necessary, but I guess the drugs can work too. Seems pretty radical to me that it would come to that, but hey it's a radical world these days. That is all I have to say about airraider's QB and situation. I'm just glad it worked out for him in this situation and this kid is doing well...
I will now respond to the request to expound on the more general situation that occurs very often when a QB seems to lose his mind in the midst of significant and repeated failure. This is in no way related to airraider's QB or what was done by him or the mom...because I don't know what he did...I am speaking hypothetically...nor is this to suggest that airraider should have done any of these things...I don't know his kid or that mom...so don't draw those conclusions...
I firmly believe that the worse a kid does the more he needs the coach to invest in his confidence. This is often beyond the scope of most coaches' comfort zones, as they really don't see that as their job or problem...or it may appear too personal to prop their QB up under those circumstances...OR, they may be too angry to even talk to the kid because they are taking the failure personally. This becomes particularly tough when there is a QB competition or controversy...
The first step is that there needs to be clear communication from the coach to the failed player separating the performance from the coach's perception of the QB as a person. The coach must take his play calling hat off and become a mentor and support to determine where the QB's head is taking him. This could very well happen in the middle of a game if it needs too...this isn't the NFL, these are kids at risk, and in the midst of heavy failure, the coach needs to do things sometimes that are not typical...because the failure isn't typical.
Whatever the reason a coach gives for not engaging a player, the depression caused by that level of failure needs to be dealt with decisively by the coach, and he must be intentional in communicating his belief in the athlete no matter how far he falls. Chances are, yelling is the last thing that would be helpful...This is one of those moments when self-control is critical in a coach.
If the coach believed in him before he failed, he can't stop believing when he fails. The coach is not an innocent bystander as the coach, He is involved in this crime scene, he selected the player for the position, he determined the read progressions, he coached the mechanics, he called the plays, and he put the QB in the pocket with the protection he designed, etc. He cannot separate himself in the interest of whatever excuse he makes up. He may end up playing another QB, that's fine, but he must do his level best to restore the failed QB as one who bears an appropriate measure of responsibility for his downfall. You observe what you coach.
Only the coach has the ability to reach the athlete quickly and restore him. No Mom, Dad, girlfriend, or teammate can go where the coach can go. Simply because, more than anyone else, the coach is the one the QB feels he let down, whether you want it to be that way or not. No matter what the kid's personality is, or how he displays his frustration, the coach must be the coach and engage.
Now, a few things to consider as to why QBs fail to keep it together in the midst of abject failure like that...
1) Self-Preservation. Plain and simple, the athlete is processing huge failure in front of friend, family, and the world...and this will ignite their self defense mechanisms which can vary from running the ball on every pass play, only hitting the short receivers, throwing the ball away early, waiting too long to let the ball go, or if its bad enough - asking to be removed. This can be addressed directly in the athlete, because it tends to be the most obvious and first stage of what they experience. This is a confidence problem that can be talked out on the sideline...it's the most common and recognizable attitude.
2) Self-Pity. This is related to the same motivation, only this time it's a level deeper than simple self-preservation. In this case, they become more emotional and less willing to "snap out of it." They will even resist words of encouragement when offered by the coach. In this case, you are likely not dealing with someone whose agenda is serving the team. If they have a lot riding on their success...perception of scholarship offers, recruiters watching, scout evaluation, or a quarterback competition with another player they can get overly conservative for their own gain. They will tend to blameshift heavily, express a deep lack of confidence in themselves, and divert any effort to restore them to strange conclusions that make little sense..."The HC doesn't like me", "I don't think the team believes in me anymore, they won't block for me." "I can't see anyone going out on a route because I'm not big enough." "I can't..." "I don't believe in myself anymore." "I've lost the confidence of everyone."
This athlete needs to be challenged to serve the team and stop serving themselves. That must be communicated in direct concert with seriously high levels of smoke being blown up their backside. They need to know that no failure they do will cause you to lose confidence in them, but the fact that they are allowing their personal agenda to weaken the priority of loving the team over themselves...is making them susceptible to tentative play. Say something like, "Listen, I get it, I see where you are coming from on all this, but you have to understand that you are the guy we believe in whether you see that now or not...now I can help you with confidence building play calling to get you back, but I need you to do something for me...I need you to step up and love this team more than you love your reputation right now. Can you do that for me? I need you to simply serve your teammates and not worry about mistakes...you will make them, but right now, we need to move the chains and that's all I want from you...can you do that for us? One play at a time for ____________(insert name of friend you know he has on the offense) ...Don't worry about the picks and fumbles, you aren't in trouble for that, but if you keep putting your feeling ahead of serving this team, we are going to have a problem...understand? Now, let's do this like I know you can..."
3) Fear. Abject fear. This is all too common in young QBs, and unmanaged QBs over time, and really cannot be addressed in one game...This is something a coach must methodically work out of his QBs at practice and in games by systematically creating scenarios where the QB is put in a situation to be successful as much as reasonably possible. Unmanaged QBs are QBs left to themselves over a period of time and the coach doesn't really talk to them much, and wonder why they implode at the first sign of trouble.
Asking him to make tough throws off deep drops that require extended pocket time is not advised. Rather, quick game throws, and concept passing that takes advantage of routes that open quickly on rhythm and in space is preferable. Periodically, on early downs in favorable field position, you want to pepper in more difficult throws that will give you insight into how he is progressing in this area.
I know this sounds like I'm suggesting you cater to fear, but unfortunately, we all do it to some degree as OCs when we limit what we call based on who is involved in a play. Aren't we demonstrating a measure of fear of our players failing to execute? Same fear, different motivation. It's something that can be worked out and should be in a systematic way wherever possible. Blitz pickup and pressure situations in practice are another excellent tool in eradicating fear. Just be careful to limit collisions on the QB or it can backfire.
4) Pride. This is the most sinister of all the problems. When you have a cocky QB who projects no real concern at his failure or mistakes. This is still a defense mechanism, albeit designed to not show weakness. The problem is that in not dealing with the mistakes that are causing the failed decisions, the QB is doomed to repeat them. This kid needs to be managed in play calling, and treated at times like a hostile witness in a legal trial.
They don't often have the best interest of the team at heart, and they need to be monitored in what they are given latitude to do.
Often the reason they are playing in the first place is that their arrogance can produce good outcomes at times, but the risk is an emotional strain on everyone, even the players at times. If a player like this really gets in trouble in a game, the coach must look past the facade of toughness and seek to understand the insecurity that is feeding the current self-destruction. Often with a kid like this, the problem isn't that complicated, he is trying to make up for his failure with a big play, and he doesn't want to win respect back with disciplined execution. He is embarrassed, so a big gesture play will offset things in his mind.
He needs clear communication about the plan and his need to stick to the conservative approach...assure him the chance to make up for it with a big play will come later if he will do as you ask. I know I am asking you to negotiate with the kid, but that may be the only way you can get him back online to help the team in the moment. After the game you can deal with the ego, but chances are, he has a character problem that can't be fixed in season...it can only be managed with negotiation and patience over time, or graduation.
I am only sharing my thoughts, I'm not a doctor, nor am I suggesting this for every situation in every city or school...I am just offering some food for thought about some situations you may encounter as asked.
Hope it helps some.
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Post by dubber on Oct 22, 2013 23:03:00 GMT -6
I know that took some time Coach Slack, and I appreciate it.....great stuff
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Post by dsqa on Oct 23, 2013 9:34:55 GMT -6
Ur welcome...I enjoy thinking this stuff through...these are real issues facing a lot of guys...more than just X's and O's
Glad airraider's guy found a workaround, many don't...and end up in wildcat...:-)
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Post by dubber on Oct 23, 2013 10:54:41 GMT -6
Seems like a big thing would be STAFF buy in too.
Can't have the WR coach getting exasperated when the QB coach is trying to mentor/coach his kids.
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 23, 2013 11:07:19 GMT -6
Seems like a big thing would be STAFF buy in too. Can't have the WR coach getting exasperated when the QB coach is trying to mentor/coach his kids. Right. I lose my stuff when a WR coach or a defensive coach comes after one of my OL for missing a block. I feel like that's a sign of disrespect towards myself. I can coach my own kids.
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Post by dsqa on Oct 23, 2013 22:29:48 GMT -6
Absolutely...need to clear that up front behind closed doors
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Post by shields on Oct 24, 2013 3:39:13 GMT -6
I think a lot of us can take something away from what Coach Slack said. I need to Coach my quarterback better after a disaster instead of exploding. My QB told one of the other coaches he likes playing defense so when he makes a mistake, he doesn't have to re-live what just happened, instead he can move to the other side of the ball and forget about it. I need to do a better job with this...
"The first step is that there needs to be clear communication from the coach to the failed player separating the performance from the coach's perception of the QB as a person. The coach must take his play calling hat off and become a mentor and support to determine where the QB's head is taking him. This could very well happen in the middle of a game if it needs too...this isn't the NFL, these are kids at risk, and in the midst of heavy failure, the coach needs to do things sometimes that are not typical...because the failure isn't typical.
Whatever the reason a coach gives for not engaging a player, the depression caused by that level of failure needs to be dealt with decisively by the coach, and he must be intentional in communicating his belief in the athlete no matter how far he falls. Chances are, yelling is the last thing that would be helpful...This is one of those moments when self-control is critical in a coach.
If the coach believed in him before he failed, he can't stop believing when he fails. The coach is not an innocent bystander as the coach, He is involved in this crime scene, he selected the player for the position, he determined the read progressions, he coached the mechanics, he called the plays, and he put the QB in the pocket with the protection he designed, etc. He cannot separate himself in the interest of whatever excuse he makes up. He may end up playing another QB, that's fine, but he must do his level best to restore the failed QB as one who bears an appropriate measure of responsibility for his downfall. You observe what you coach.
Only the coach has the ability to reach the athlete quickly and restore him. No Mom, Dad, girlfriend, or teammate can go where the coach can go. Simply because, more than anyone else, the coach is the one the QB feels he let down, whether you want it to be that way or not. No matter what the kid's personality is, or how he displays his frustration, the coach must be the coach and engage."
Thanks Coach Slack!
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Post by airraider on Oct 24, 2013 5:27:20 GMT -6
Over the last few years I usually have ripped him when he made a mistake, but it was never because of the mistake... but rather his body language in terms of handling it... he would come off with head down and and visibly shaken...
I finally learned to stop getting on him so much, as he was doing enough of that for both of us.
All he kept saying in week 2, was "Ive thrown 3 interceptions, put someone else in, I can hear people talking about me"
That is a lot on a 17 year old kid to be in the mix of a game and have that on his mindn while playing such a demanding game.
Luckily the meds have helped him not really give a rip what others think and to just play ball.
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Post by gators1422 on Oct 24, 2013 8:26:38 GMT -6
Why would you put a kid who is fragile at QB. Learned that my first year coaching, head cases can't play Qb.
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Post by shields on Oct 24, 2013 8:35:23 GMT -6
A true competitor will usually be plenty hard on himself. As coaches we need to know what motivates a kid. However, when a kid performs certain tasks all week in practice then doesn't do them in a game, I tend to lose it. But after reading Coach Slack's post and realizing my freaking out isn't helping the situation, I need to work on channeling my frustrations into positives to lift the kid up, not chastise him. Heck, if the QB throws an interception, he already knows he screwed up. I've been working on this the second half of the season, but there is plenty more work to do...
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Post by airraider on Oct 24, 2013 18:08:01 GMT -6
Why would you put a kid who is fragile at QB. Learned that my first year coaching, head cases can't play Qb. Well he threw for 44 tds last year and has thrown for 38 thus far this year... its just more of a challenge.. and now the meds are helping.
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Post by shocktroop34 on Oct 24, 2013 20:47:50 GMT -6
Air-Glad to hear your young man is in a better place. When you guys get some time in the off season, there is a good book called "Nerves of Steel" by Dr. Kevin Elko. I'm currently reading it now. It was recommended to me by a good friend who is a sports psychologist. Not a lot of "bells whistles" but a very practical book that helps prepare players mentally. I bought my book on Amazon for about $15. Short read. For the price of a beer and burger, I think it was a good investment. It will help (especially young players) process competition from a healthy perspective.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 24, 2013 21:08:29 GMT -6
I'd like to compare this to goalies in hockey. Sometimes they just have a bad game and let everything past them. It happens in the pros, too, it's just something that happens from time to time. When that happens you pull him, tell him to just let this one go, and move on. Forcing a goalie to stay in when he's having a terrible night rarely turns out well.
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