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Post by morris on Oct 14, 2013 14:18:11 GMT -6
A coach and I were talking if we thought teams would pay to have hudl film broken down. That way when you come in you can just sort by whatever. We both saw pros and cons to it but we both thought it was an interesting idea. One would be pretty much paying for data entery using your terminology. I know many staffs have lower level coaches or oc/DCs do it but the idea of giving those guys other things to do might help.
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 14, 2013 14:31:28 GMT -6
I heard of a service doing just that..It was pretty expensive..then you have to look at the film anyway..I might get a dad or a volunteer to do down and distance hash and all that
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 14:34:22 GMT -6
A coach and I were talking if we thought teams would pay to have hudl film broken down. That way when you come in you can just sort by whatever. We both saw pros and cons to it but we both thought it was an interesting idea. One would be pretty much paying for data entery using your terminology. I know many staffs have lower level coaches or oc/DCs do it but the idea of giving those guys other things to do might help. I think the idea is a good, but I think you steal a valuable tool from young coaches. I cannot imagine not wanting my staff, or myself not wanting to do that as I don't think a coach can watch a film enough......
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Post by morris on Oct 14, 2013 14:47:50 GMT -6
I heard of a service doing just that..It was pretty expensive..then you have to look at the film anyway..I might get a dad or a volunteer to do down and distance hash and all that What were they charging? I get wanting other coaches to look at it and break it down but you could also be more focused in what to look for. You could still have young guys look for different reasons
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Post by brophy on Oct 14, 2013 15:02:47 GMT -6
totally worth it, IMO that would be a lot of effort and it is totally reliant on the quality of film you've got. Use HUDL interns? Nope, we're gonna undercut ya with
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Post by morris on Oct 14, 2013 15:30:29 GMT -6
I know a lot of guys watch and use hudl but many don't enter in all the data. If you pay a service then it is a simple click to see different things.
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Post by brophy on Oct 14, 2013 15:53:56 GMT -6
how long does it take your staff to input for 120 - 160 plays?
D&D, O/D, Hash, Formation, Run/Pass, Motion, Play name / Pass Concept, Ball Carrier, Gain
and
Front, Coverage, Blitz, Stunt
what would we pay someone to outsource play calling? Just curious
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Post by morris on Oct 14, 2013 17:14:45 GMT -6
The other question would be what if if was a tier system. Maybe you want your guys to breakdown part of it but with a click all the 2 shell looks come up or a certain formation. Cut out some of the grunt work so your guys could concentrait on the real nuts and bolts. I mean honestly most of use are working for a 1.00 an hr at best. The ability to hit 3rd downs, right hash, and so on so you can break it down more I would think would be pretty nice. It doesn't take away the young guys learning things. There is also the fact that some of use play teams that we know unless our bus breaks down we'll beat. So maybe in that case you don't get the breakdown. Then this might be one of those things where the teams with the money to do it have the staff.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2013 17:24:06 GMT -6
The other question would be what if if was a tier system. Maybe you want your guys to breakdown part of it but with a click all the 2 shell looks come up or a certain formation. Cut out some of the grunt work so your guys could concentrait on the real nuts and bolts. I mean honestly most of use are working for a 1.00 an hr at best. The ability to hit 3rd downs, right hash, and so on so you can break it down more I would think would be pretty nice. It doesn't take away the young guys learning things. There is also the fact that some of use play teams that we know unless our bus breaks down we'll beat. So maybe in that case you don't get the breakdown. Then this might be one of those things where the teams with the money to do it have the staff. It does take away from the guys learning though. It is all part of the training. That is paying attention to detail. Getting all that information into a computer is work, attention to detail, paying attention. The only thing that I think would be truly worth paying for is with some our games we get the whole game....pre game, game, post...the whole...paying some to reduce that to absolute necessity...
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Post by fballcoachg on Oct 14, 2013 18:19:48 GMT -6
I wouldn't pay for it, it's part of breaking down film, synthesizing the information in your own way.
How would said service be able to know everyone's terminology? I understand the thought but doesn't seem feasible, worthwhile, or necessary.
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Post by morris on Oct 14, 2013 19:03:35 GMT -6
I would thinks teams would have to provide a terminology list of some kind. I wouldn't think it would be for everyone but neither are the "offense in a can". My district has the money but doesn't have the man power.
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Post by Coach Huey on Oct 14, 2013 19:20:38 GMT -6
I would thinks teams would have to provide a terminology list of some kind. I wouldn't think it would be for everyone but neither are the "offense in a can". My district has the money but doesn't have the man power. I won't get too deep into this as I find it somewhat hard to conceive (I won't say silly or absurd) but if you "have the money" why not simply create a stipend for someone either on staff now or for a new staff position and simply make it an in-house thing.
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coachpsl
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Post by coachpsl on Oct 14, 2013 19:25:08 GMT -6
The data input has become part of my routine at this point. It forces me to watch and really take in what i see. Sort of like writing down notes in college vs just looking through the professors powerpoint slides. Having it all done would be great but I doubt I could put it to use as well as I do now.
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orion320
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Post by orion320 on Oct 14, 2013 20:21:32 GMT -6
I wouldn't pay for it. When you are breaking down film you actually get to watch it. Imagine how much you might miss if you had someone else do if for you. Could you really trust a company to do if for you correctly? As a staff (I am Defensive Coach), if we divide up the info it doesn't take more than 1.5 hours to break down 3 games.
Coach A - ODK, Down and Distance, Yardline, and Hash Coach B - Strength, Play Direction, Field/Boundary, and Play Direction Coach C - Formation, Play, and Result (this coach also creates scout cards for the week)
If you want to tag your data during the game, get a volunteer dad, coach, or manager to tag the data on an Iphone or Ipad then upload it with the film. I think you see alot more my actually watching the plays as the game progresses as opposed to just watching the clips based on breakdown data. For example, what if they flip their line? Would a hired company notice that? What about small alignment differences such as a slot receiver widening out when running a wheel or tightening up when running a hide/screen route?
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Post by groundchuck on Oct 14, 2013 21:20:09 GMT -6
I do it a certain way and wind up watching it several times in the process. If I had somebody else do it I would miss out on valuable video reps.
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Post by adawg2302 on Oct 14, 2013 21:31:27 GMT -6
I am obviously in the minority, but I would pay for it (depends how much too). A few clicks and I get to see various tendencies? Why not? Especially for smaller staffs...
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Post by buckeye7525 on Oct 15, 2013 5:53:51 GMT -6
The part that would be nice to have someone else do is to do the Down/Distance/Yardline/Hash/Gain but other than that I can't imagine someone someone else breaking down a Defense for me. Right now I do all of that in addition to the defensive information which is a pain but it goes fairly quickly. I think verbiage would get in the way and as an OC/OL coach I spend alot of time trying to figure out exactly what shade the DL are in and I wouldn't be willing to trust someone else to do that for me.
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 15, 2013 6:59:35 GMT -6
No. I would not pay for it. We already have a coach who does it. Is it a paid coach? Then...you kinda do pay for it. I'm curious here too...I get the ODK set, I star some key plays I want to review with the team...but would love a report on playcalling. 1st and 10 2nd and long 2nd and short 3rd long 3rd short Critical situations play call What will a team run in each of those situations. I think just that basic report would help a lot. Tendencies....I would pay
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 15, 2013 7:03:00 GMT -6
If you're going to pay someone, pay a volunteer coach a small stipend from fundraising money, boosters, whatever. I don't think you need to hire an outsider. "Hire" one of your own instead.
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Post by brophy on Oct 15, 2013 7:06:37 GMT -6
Coach A - ODK, Down and Distance, Yardline, and Hash Coach B - Strength, Play Direction, Field/Boundary, and Play Direction Coach C - Formation, Play, and Result (this coach also creates scout cards for the week) that is 1.5 hours x 3 at $20/hour is $90 I mean, if you divide it by your stipend, then it amounts to $0.0000323/ hour How valuable is your time? The real rub will be, as a coach, you're STILL going to be watching that film multiple different times (whether the stats are entered or not). Is mundane film breakdown crucial/necessary for development as a coach? yes.... However, what is it WORTH to have the metrics already entered into the database for scouting? If these components could be automatically entered by the HUDL program (not a person) would we be against it? I wouldn't think the data entry would absolve us from game planning/scouting, just the administrative component of it. Would I pay for it? It is a difficult business case to justify, but I think there is value there for your time
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 15, 2013 7:19:14 GMT -6
Coach A - ODK, Down and Distance, Yardline, and Hash Coach B - Strength, Play Direction, Field/Boundary, and Play Direction Coach C - Formation, Play, and Result (this coach also creates scout cards for the week) that is 1.5 hours x 3 at $20/hour is $90 I mean, if you divide it by your stipend, then it amounts to $0.0000323/ hour How valuable is your time? The real rub will be, as a coach, you're STILL going to be watching that film multiple different times (whether the stats are entered or not). Is mundane film breakdown crucial/necessary for development as a coach? yes.... However, what is it WORTH to have the metrics already entered into the database for scouting? If these components could be automatically entered by the HUDL program (not a person) would we be against it? I wouldn't think the data entry would absolve us from game planning/scouting, just the administrative component of it. Would I pay for it? It is a difficult business case to justify, but I think there is value there for your time If somehow HUDL broke down the film automatically, you'd have to be crazy not to use that feature. That's like crawling on your hands and knees picking up crumbs instead of using a vacuum, or cutting grass with a pair of scissors instead of a lawn mower. I don't think we as coaches would game plan any different. We would use that time more wisely.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2013 7:23:18 GMT -6
Coach A - ODK, Down and Distance, Yardline, and Hash Coach B - Strength, Play Direction, Field/Boundary, and Play Direction Coach C - Formation, Play, and Result (this coach also creates scout cards for the week) that is 1.5 hours x 3 at $20/hour is $90 I mean, if you divide it by your stipend, then it amounts to $0.0000323/ hour How valuable is your time? The real rub will be, as a coach, you're STILL going to be watching that film multiple different times (whether the stats are entered or not). Is mundane film breakdown crucial/necessary for development as a coach? yes.... However, what is it WORTH to have the metrics already entered into the database for scouting? If these components could be automatically entered by the HUDL program (not a person) would we be against it? I wouldn't think the data entry would absolve us from game planning/scouting, just the administrative component of it. Would I pay for it? It is a difficult business case to justify, but I think there is value there for your time to be contrarian $900 vs a $2500 stipend.... have 3 paid assistants or 1?
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 15, 2013 7:28:15 GMT -6
The value could be in having past games already in a database. If everybody in a district used the service, then they wouldn't have to break down the last 3 games, they would just download the info that's already been done for those games the last 3 weeks. Of course this would only apply to teams that used the service, and only be for non terminology specific stuff, or some up with a standardized terminology.
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Post by tim914790 on Oct 15, 2013 7:49:43 GMT -6
I like the idea but I am not sure it is realistic. With all of the terminology needed to put a team's play into our terms it could get difficult. It took me two full years to finally get hudl to where I can break a O and D down quicker than pen and paper. I eliminated a lot of the unnecessary columns for us and combined some things to make it flow much easier. It took a while but now I like it a lot. We do not waste time with hash or DD, we have found the HS teams we face are much more formation and strength predictable rather than hash, field area, and DD. I do ODK, Down/Gun, O formation including any motion, play in our terms (iso, sweep, etc), play type, play direction. Defensively just front,any blitz and coverage if a pass. I can then sort it to see how a team plays trips, 2x2
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Post by morris on Oct 15, 2013 8:01:47 GMT -6
I would thinks teams would have to provide a terminology list of some kind. I wouldn't think it would be for everyone but neither are the "offense in a can". My district has the money but doesn't have the man power. I won't get too deep into this as I find it somewhat hard to conceive (I won't say silly or absurd) but if you "have the money" why not simply create a stipend for someone either on staff now or for a new staff position and simply make it an in-house thing. We get money from bingo so as a program we have a pretty large account. The problem comes with our district creating a bunch red tape. One top of that the state is funny about boosters paying a coach for anything. the other issue my school has is due to a number of factors just getting coaches is tough. No teaching jobs and the location sucks for para pros. I understand there are ways around it too.
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Post by brophy on Oct 15, 2013 8:37:26 GMT -6
to be contrarian $900 vs a $2500 stipend.... have 3 paid assistants or 1? true. Maybe your program has money to burn ( I've never been a part of any that are like that ) However, if someone started this service, I would come in and outsource to the Philippines and offer it for $25/game. 1. Nobel Peace Prize 2. 3. PROFIT! ** I just have to figure out what that 2nd step isI think the key would be... the charter creates a template of all formations and fronts and to get started, you'd have to label what you call each formation. Logistically, this is a nightmare I know..... To make it easier, you ought to be able to have the charter speak one language (his terminology) then just create a mapping table to replace your "Eagle" front to their "Over" front. One man's "lead" is another man's "smash".... I've heard about it, but I've never seen a program where there are 3+ assistant coaches you can trust with carrying their weight (I've only seen 1 - 2 coaches actually using HUDL correctly)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2013 8:52:41 GMT -6
to be contrarian $900 vs a $2500 stipend.... have 3 paid assistants or 1? true. Maybe your program has money to burn ( I've never been a part of any that are like that ) However, if someone started this service, I would come in and outsource to the Philippines and offer it for $25/game. 1. Nobel Peace Prize 2. 3. PROFIT! ** I just have to figure out what that 2nd step isI think the key would be... the charter creates a template of all formations and fronts and to get started, you'd have to label what you call each formation. Logistically, this is a nightmare I know..... To make it easier, you ought to be able to have the charter speak one language (his terminology) then just create a mapping table to replace your "Eagle" front to their "Over" front. One man's "lead" is another man's "smash".... I've heard about it, but I've never seen a program where there are 3+ assistant coaches you can trust with carrying their weight (I've only seen 1 - 2 coaches actually using HUDL correctly)1 you are taking away American jobs ...! LOL J/k! you can find parents who could and would do it...for just a seat at the coaches meetings (they quickly find out how the sausage is made and have no interest while learning that their really is no favortism) We 6 sports stipens a year for football. everybody else get theirs with an envelope...hush hush, wink wink, nod nod. and the amount is based on level of involvement.... But even if you only have a couple, you would be better off making one of those pay three people to do that AND COACH....More bang for your buck. And it is a great way to find out who wants to be their.
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Post by fantom on Oct 15, 2013 9:02:46 GMT -6
I like the idea but I am not sure it is realistic. With all of the terminology needed to put a team's play into our terms it could get difficult. One man's Spider Wide Banana is another man's Power Pass.
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pain
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Post by pain on Oct 15, 2013 9:10:52 GMT -6
I'm not sure how this would be a good idea. You're going to watch the film, grade it, probably add notes & telestrate things. No offense to anyone (and it may have been mentioned & I missed it) but what kind of OC or DC in high school wouldn't comb through each play and want to input things the way they want them using their own terminology and grading system. I hope I'm never "that busy" to not do this myself. And by that I mean "do the work yourself or get out". JMHO. BTW, I own my own business, raise three kids, and am active in my church & community. So, my time is valuable as is all of yours but, really, do this yourselves.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 15, 2013 9:24:17 GMT -6
I'm not sure how this would be a good idea. You're going to watch the film, grade it, probably add notes & telestrate things. No offense to anyone (and it may have been mentioned & I missed it) but what kind of OC or DC in high school wouldn't comb through each play and want to input things the way they want them using their own terminology and grading system. I hope I'm never "that busy" to not do this myself. And by that I mean "do the work yourself or get out". JMHO. BTW, I own my own business, raise three kids, and am active in my church & community. So, my time is valuable as is all of yours but, really, do this yourselves. Just because you aren't the one entering all the data doesn't mean you aren't game planning or working on your own teams weaknesses. You really think Nick Saben and his coordinators enter all that info? It's done for them and then they use that info for their game planning, self scout, etc. It's not neccessary to use an outside service, but as i stated previously, pay a volunteer or give one of the less tenured assistants the duty and throw in some extra money from boosters.
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