coachsmi0901
Freshmen Member
Ever heard of that coach that hated his job? Yeah, me neither.
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Post by coachsmi0901 on Oct 11, 2013 6:53:34 GMT -6
We've got a stud that we have playing Q on our freshmen team that is good enough to start in our secondary on Varsity and back up our starting varsity Q.
What experiences have y'all have/had with having a kid go between Freshmen level and Varsity?
What we're doing with him right now is he's still playing on Thursday night for the Freshmen team and we're dressing him on Friday nights as an emergency back up to our starting Q. During the week, he splits practice between Varsity and Freshmen practice. We don't want to burn his freshmen eligibility unless we have to.
Thanks in advance.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 11, 2013 6:59:04 GMT -6
Maybe it's not an Interscholastic rule and it's just common sense, but here if you're a freshmen and play 1 play of varsity then you are ineligible to play freshmen football. Here in RI there is a freshmen league with playoffs so that could be why RI has that rule.
Our staff will not play a freshmen on varsity unless he is hands down the best at his position and would be a unanimous starter with no debate. No need to rush a 14-15 year old kid and throw him in against 17-18's. In your case, if he ends up being your full time starter then there's no need to play freshmen ball even if he's allowed to.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 11, 2013 7:53:58 GMT -6
So glad we don't have that rule here... we play our 2 lower levels on Thursday afternoon and the Varsity on Friday. Allows us to play the entire group of 9th & 10th graders (sophomore team) Thursday and all of those players can dress for varsity game on Friday night. If game gets out of hand, that team can get a series or two of varsity football.
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Post by coach2013 on Oct 11, 2013 8:05:59 GMT -6
Last year we had a frosh kid who played some defense for varsity. He was one of our best players. We however wanted the freshmen to win. He played the entire freshman game then would also get a few plays as a varsity contributor. This year hes a varsity captain and plays no JV at all. It was well worth it to give him the varsity time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2013 8:10:01 GMT -6
We've got a stud that we have playing Q on our freshmen team that is good enough to start in our secondary on Varsity and back up our starting varsity Q. What experiences have y'all have/had with having a kid go between Freshmen level and Varsity? What we're doing with him right now is he's still playing on Thursday night for the Freshmen team and we're dressing him on Friday nights as an emergency back up to our starting Q. During the week, he splits practice between Varsity and Freshmen practice. We don't want to burn his freshmen eligibility unless we have to. Thanks in advance. when we have player player who is capable of playing i.e contributing on the varsity, his freshman playing time is zero...You are not helping the program or the kid by playing him down...But Qb is slightly different animal...we don't play with anybody who we think is going to be starting qb on the varsity, especially those who we have no doubt.
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Post by carookie on Oct 11, 2013 9:29:28 GMT -6
I am at a very small private school now (300 kids, where I am used to schools that are 2000). Before this year I've never even had a frosh play Varsity ball, but I've come to see at smaller schools sometimes you do these things, so initially I would ask what your size is?
Now of these underclassmen who play varsity, no varsity starter plays JV. Some players will see significant varsity snaps (over 20) and then play all day jv- but once again its a matter of numbers. If we didnt do this we'd be left with maybe 14 jv players for some games, and have some positions empty.
If its a numbers game I think its okay to let a player who gets moderate varsity snaps play at a lower level, otherwise Id say NO
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Post by Cody Gardner on Oct 11, 2013 10:55:54 GMT -6
We had a very similar situations a few years back. Our freshman QB was also our nickel db week 1. By week 6 he was seeing 15-20 snaps on d. He was(is) special, ultra competitive kid, all state in 3 sports. If we held him out of the freshman games and JV games he would have been miserable. Now we did hold him out from playing defense at the freshman level but he started both ways at JV. His sophomore year he was the varsity starting QB and Strong Safety. And that was a compromise, he should have been our weakside OLB, you just have to know what kind of kid you have. Will the varsity time stunt his growth? Will he become complacent or entitled? It didn't hurt this kid, but he isn't your normal high schooler.
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Post by fantom on Oct 11, 2013 11:13:57 GMT -6
We've got a stud that we have playing Q on our freshmen team that is good enough to start in our secondary on Varsity and back up our starting varsity Q. What experiences have y'all have/had with having a kid go between Freshmen level and Varsity? What we're doing with him right now is he's still playing on Thursday night for the Freshmen team and we're dressing him on Friday nights as an emergency back up to our starting Q. During the week, he splits practice between Varsity and Freshmen practice. We don't want to burn his freshmen eligibility unless we have to. Thanks in advance. There are too many variables such as school size and state rules, for us to answer this specifically. For example, I don't know what you mean by "burn his freshman eligibility". In our state, players are allowed 40 quarters of HS football a season and 1 play=1 quarter. The only other restriction is that you can't play two games in one day. In the situation that you've described and under our state's rules here's how I think we'd handle it. If he's good enough to start on the varsity, he starts on the varsity. If there are quarters available we'd play him at QB in freshman games.
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coachsmi0901
Freshmen Member
Ever heard of that coach that hated his job? Yeah, me neither.
Posts: 85
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Post by coachsmi0901 on Oct 11, 2013 12:16:41 GMT -6
Maybe it's not an Interscholastic rule and it's just common sense, but here if you're a freshmen and play 1 play of varsity then you are ineligible to play freshmen football. Here in RI there is a freshmen league with playoffs so that could be why RI has that rule. Our staff will not play a freshmen on varsity unless he is hands down the best at his position and would be a unanimous starter with no debate. No need to rush a 14-15 year old kid and throw him in against 17-18's. In your case, if he ends up being your full time starter then there's no need to play freshmen ball even if he's allowed to. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Our rule is the same as yours. We aren't playing him unless our Varsity Q goes down. We're still dressing him though. It's my understanding as long as he doesn't go into the game, there's no harm no foul with his freshmen eligibility.
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coachsmi0901
Freshmen Member
Ever heard of that coach that hated his job? Yeah, me neither.
Posts: 85
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Post by coachsmi0901 on Oct 11, 2013 12:22:53 GMT -6
We've got a stud that we have playing Q on our freshmen team that is good enough to start in our secondary on Varsity and back up our starting varsity Q. What experiences have y'all have/had with having a kid go between Freshmen level and Varsity? What we're doing with him right now is he's still playing on Thursday night for the Freshmen team and we're dressing him on Friday nights as an emergency back up to our starting Q. During the week, he splits practice between Varsity and Freshmen practice. We don't want to burn his freshmen eligibility unless we have to. Thanks in advance. There are too many variables such as school size and state rules, for us to answer this specifically. For example, I don't know what you mean by "burn his freshman eligibility". In our state, players are allowed 40 quarters of HS football a season and 1 play=1 quarter. The only other restriction is that you can't play two games in one day. In the situation that you've described and under our state's rules here's how I think we'd handle it. If he's good enough to start on the varsity, he starts on the varsity. If there are quarters available we'd play him at QB in freshman games. What I mean by burning freshmen eligibility is if we commit to him playing varsity, then he can't go back down to the Freshmen team and play. As soon as he steps on the filed for a Varsity game, his freshmen season is over. There's no doubt he's the best safety we have in all levels of our HS program. I don't know what's more important: giving him reps at Q on the freshmen level or throwing him into the fire and playing safety at the varsity level. And will it hurt our freshmen program because kids will see us treating one player "special". Note: The kid is a good kid, not like playing varsity will get to his head.
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 11, 2013 12:27:37 GMT -6
Maybe it's not an Interscholastic rule and it's just common sense, but here if you're a freshmen and play 1 play of varsity then you are ineligible to play freshmen football. Here in RI there is a freshmen league with playoffs so that could be why RI has that rule. Our staff will not play a freshmen on varsity unless he is hands down the best at his position and would be a unanimous starter with no debate. No need to rush a 14-15 year old kid and throw him in against 17-18's. In your case, if he ends up being your full time starter then there's no need to play freshmen ball even if he's allowed to. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Our rule is the same as yours. We aren't playing him unless our Varsity Q goes down. We're still dressing him though. It's my understanding as long as he doesn't go into the game, there's no harm no foul with his freshmen eligibility. Right. He's fine until he gets in the game. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2013 12:29:07 GMT -6
Maybe it's not an Interscholastic rule and it's just common sense, but here if you're a freshmen and play 1 play of varsity then you are ineligible to play freshmen football. Here in RI there is a freshmen league with playoffs so that could be why RI has that rule. Our staff will not play a freshmen on varsity unless he is hands down the best at his position and would be a unanimous starter with no debate. No need to rush a 14-15 year old kid and throw him in against 17-18's. In your case, if he ends up being your full time starter then there's no need to play freshmen ball even if he's allowed to. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Our rule is the same as yours. We aren't playing him unless our Varsity Q goes down. We're still dressing him though. It's my understanding as long as he doesn't go into the game, there's no harm no foul with his freshmen eligibility. My experience...13-14 or whatever is now...is if that kid is playing and practicing on varsity as freshman he is better than whoever is front of him unless you have talent found in some parts of ga and south fla and other inner city areas.
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Post by fantom on Oct 11, 2013 12:30:00 GMT -6
There are too many variables such as school size and state rules, for us to answer this specifically. For example, I don't know what you mean by "burn his freshman eligibility". In our state, players are allowed 40 quarters of HS football a season and 1 play=1 quarter. The only other restriction is that you can't play two games in one day. In the situation that you've described and under our state's rules here's how I think we'd handle it. If he's good enough to start on the varsity, he starts on the varsity. If there are quarters available we'd play him at QB in freshman games. What I mean by burning freshmen eligibility is if we commit to him playing varsity, then he can't go back down to the Freshmen team and play. As soon as he steps on the filed for a Varsity game, his freshmen season is over. There's no doubt he's the best safety we have in all levels of our HS program. I don't know what's more important: giving him reps at Q on the freshmen level or throwing him into the fire and playing safety at the varsity level. And will it hurt our freshmen program because kids will see us treating one player "special". Note: The kid is a good kid, not like playing varsity will get to his head. It's not at all hard for me- best players play. If he's clearly the best safety he plays safety on the varsity. The only way that I'd leave him at the freshman level is if you're in the first year of a rebuild. Then I can see keeping a talented freshman team together so that they can learn how to win together. Otherwise, if the freshman should be starting on the varsity that's where he plays.
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Post by coachphillip on Oct 11, 2013 12:59:54 GMT -6
Does your need for him to play S overshadow your want for him to develop as a starting QB? That's what this boils down to. If you want him to be the QB next year and take all the snaps as a Freshman player then do that. If you think he can make up the experience lost quickly enough and the drop off from the current S to himself is that severe then do that. Not really something I think we can answer.
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Post by peacock1915 on Oct 18, 2013 10:15:01 GMT -6
We had a similar situation last year. My freshman QB could have started on our Defense the entire season, but I knew that he would be my Varsity QB as a sophomore. He went trough 2 a days with the varsity at QB, and then played his entire 9th grade season, and then we moved him up and he started the last 3-4 games at safety for our varsity. Because I knew that he would be my QB this year I thought it was more important for him to get QB reps to prepare him for this year then to have him not play QB for a year and then be put back. I didn't dress him on Friday nights because my varsity backup was fairly capable, but if my starting QB would have gotten injured last year I would have pulled this kid up that next Monday.
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Post by hanagin on Oct 18, 2013 19:38:18 GMT -6
Move him up. Have him run your scout team and then he can practice his QB skills while contributing as a safety.
When I was in HS, this happened to a guy in my grade. He was about even (at 14) with the senior QB, but they needed help defensively, so they pulled him up the last few games of the season. It hurt our team and didn't really help the varsity in the short term, but it let him get his jitters out early. Then, next fall, he got to move to QB and did really well. He was always very calm from his long experience on Varsity.
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Post by fantom on Oct 18, 2013 21:09:47 GMT -6
I'm having kind of a hard time wrapping my head around this.
I understand the importance of having quality subvarsity teams. I get the fact that it would be nice to get next year's QB all the rep that you can. BUT the idea is to win varsity games and you do that by playing the best players. Unless the varsity is hopelessly bad this year, in which case this does make sense to me, I can't see hurting the varsity by playing lesser players so that you can groom this kid for next year.
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Post by coachklee on Oct 20, 2013 9:43:06 GMT -6
As a player, I was part of a struggling football program as a freshman and sophomore (5 wins in 4 years with 3 of those against a team that was winless for 3 straight years).
Anyways, if the player is better than another varsity player he should start. My sophomore year I got pulled up mainly due to the fact that there were only 13 or so juniors and seniors (school size was around 300 students). During the entire pre-season all the 12 sophomores practiced with varsity. A day before the scrimmage 6 of us were told we were playing with varsity and the other 6 were sent to the 14 freshman to make a JV of 20.
We went on to struggle that season and many of us sophomores would have been 2 way guys on JV, but only 1 of us was a 2 way player at the varsity level. Regardless, I know it made all of us better going against older varsity players each day of practice and on friday nights. For the last game of the season 1 other sophomore and 2 more freshmen (including the future 3 year starter at QB) joined us and we played a great 1st half down only 18 to 21 against a play-off bound opponent.
Not sure how much of this was really planned as opposed to done out of necessity, but the season and especially the last game was a great spring board to a turn around 7-4 playoff season, 7-3 senior season and 10 more consecutive playoff appearances for the program. The thing that has stuck with me, is that if a freshman or sophomore is good enough to start on at least one side of the ball he should play up in about 99% of situations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2013 18:47:55 GMT -6
Once again, I'm starting a post by stating I agree with fantom! If he's the best player at a varsity position, he needs to be the varsity starter at that position. Now...are you guys big enough to where you have separate freshmen, JV, and varsity teams? Is it possible to play him some JV QB? Reason I ask is that in my state--I know all states are a bit different--our players are allowed 14 total games. So, if the kid was a varsity starter from day 1, he wouldn't play freshmen, but may play five games of JV QB for us.
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Post by coachklee on Oct 22, 2013 19:04:04 GMT -6
Once again, I'm starting a post by stating I agree with fantom! If he's the best player at a varsity position, he needs to be the varsity starter at that position. Now...are you guys big enough to where you have separate freshmen, JV, and varsity teams? Is it possible to play him some JV QB? Reason I ask is that in my state--I know all states are a bit different--our players are allowed 14 total games. So, if the kid was a varsity starter from day 1, he wouldn't play freshmen, but may play five games of JV QB for us. Does that 14 total games include playoffs?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 8:56:47 GMT -6
Nope. 14 games for the regular season. Also, if a kid plays only special teams that doesn't count as a game played and if a kid plays only after the running clock has been established that doesn't count either.
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Post by norrinradd12 on Oct 25, 2013 10:55:07 GMT -6
I'm having kind of a hard time wrapping my head around this. I understand the importance of having quality subvarsity teams. I get the fact that it would be nice to get next year's QB all the rep that you can. BUT the idea is to win varsity games and you do that by playing the best players. Unless the varsity is hopelessly bad this year, in which case this does make sense to me, I can't see hurting the varsity by playing lesser players so that you can groom this kid for next year. I'm involved in a situation like that right now. Our freshman are monsters. I'm talking potentially five D1 players and 7 other D2, D3 players. They're not playing varsity for a number of reasons. 1. Let them all win together. Right now they're 5-0. We had a great class that just graduated and they were split up. Varsity had a losing record and freshman team was barely above .500. 2. Study hall and weight room. They spend more time in study hall and lifting than they do on the practice field. 3. Varsity is not good. Can't contend for playoffs even if they played.
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Post by coachklee on Oct 27, 2013 11:09:57 GMT -6
I have not yet coached a D1 player, but I do know a lot of coaches that claim to have "studs" at the ninth grade level that never amount to much at the varsity level, let alone college ball.
I do know that almost all D1 caliber players are able to contribute and make a difference at the varsity level as underclassmen. If 5 of them are "potentially" D1 players, they should be able to make a difference at that level.
I won't argue with the philosophy of keeping a group of kids together...I just think your over estimating the supposed talent level you have to work with.
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coachsmi0901
Freshmen Member
Ever heard of that coach that hated his job? Yeah, me neither.
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Post by coachsmi0901 on Oct 27, 2013 12:14:08 GMT -6
Nope. 14 games for the regular season. Also, if a kid plays only special teams that doesn't count as a game played and if a kid plays only after the running clock has been established that doesn't count either. I want those rules.
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Post by norrinradd12 on Nov 3, 2013 6:35:41 GMT -6
I have not yet coached a D1 player, but I do know a lot of coaches that claim to have "studs" at the ninth grade level that never amount to much at the varsity level, let alone college ball. I do know that almost all D1 caliber players are able to contribute and make a difference at the varsity level as underclassmen. If 5 of them are "potentially" D1 players, they should be able to make a difference at that level. I won't argue with the philosophy of keeping a group of kids together...I just think your over estimating the supposed talent level you have to work with. I'm in an area of the country that is saturated with D1 players. They're almost never physically ready at age 14 to compete with the kind of teams in our conference. A couple years ago I had a kid who is now a 4 star and he was only the 4th or 5th best freshman in the conference.
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Post by gibbs72 on Nov 9, 2013 16:41:24 GMT -6
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