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Post by stackboy on Jan 2, 2008 8:35:35 GMT -6
I started a thread on a wing t offense out of the ace formation which most have called a flexbone. I was wondering if there was someone out there that has simplified the naming of formations. Names that stick and our easy to comprehend. I have heard an interesting quote from an older coach that had one many state championships over his years that said you should only have as many plays to learn as the age of your kids when they are at the high school level. Which if you stop and think about it why do we try to make it sound so hard when it could be so easy !!! Just a thought...kids aren't getting any wiser at 15-16-17-18 year old I am dealing with kids that are at a 5A level as well What do you call formations out of the ace look(flexbone) two tight slots/two split ends two wide slots/two split ends two wings/two tight ends right slot/two twins right/one tight end left two tight ends/two flankers te wing right/se and tight slot left te wing right/se left with back lined up 3 deep behind left tackle tight slot left/tight end,se,flanker right Want to develop a scheme that allows multiple formations that the kids can make sense out of.. Thanks in advance for your help
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Post by tcm57 on Jan 2, 2008 11:37:17 GMT -6
Coach: After our basic numbered formations, we name others. In our offense/terminology (we're wing-t) with the formations you mentioned here's what we'd call them ..
1. 500 2. Loose 500 3. Double 4. Trips 100 5. Colorado 6. Red 7. 100 8. (We don't utilize this formation)
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Post by tog on Jan 2, 2008 11:45:59 GMT -6
What do you call formations out of the ace look(flexbone) two tight slots/two split ends two wide slots/two split ends two wings/two tight ends right slot/two twins right/one tight end left two tight ends/two flankers te wing right/se and tight slot left te wing right/se left with back lined up 3 deep behind left tackle tight slot left/tight end,se,flanker right formation additives all of these are essentially the same formation set find some different words that compress and expand them
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Post by coachorr on Jan 2, 2008 12:42:00 GMT -6
We do something called "Huddle Breakout". This is to work on our wing-t formations as well as our "fast break" offense. We line up cones with different formations, call the formation and/or play in the huddle and run the play. If we are just working on formations, we will just on step with the formation side foot. If it is 900, we will have our kids step with their left foot, sprint five yards and huddle up again and going in a circular motion. Huddle, sorint to the line (5yards), snap sprint through the play (5-8 yards) huddle again at 10 yards from the previous LOS and then repeat. -----------Huddle------------
--------X---X---X---X-------------------------------------------------X -X-----X----X---X----X-------X---------------------X--------------X---X-----X ------------------------------------------------------------X--X--X--X--X--X ----------------X------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------Huddle ------------Huddle---------------------
--------X-----X---X----X---------------------- --X------X----X-----X-----------X---------- -------X--------------------X
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 2, 2008 13:02:45 GMT -6
Don't know if this is what you are looking for but it depends on your philosophy and who you move. I have a few called formations and a few where I tell one player (my "A," but an "H" in many peoples' systems) where to go. This way I can line up in lots of formations - 2x2, I, offset I, Ace, trips, trey, etc - while not confusing the other guys. Here's my base "Pro" set.
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-----Y -----------------Q---------------Z ------------------------------- -----------------R
Now below is "Pro-Wing"
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-----Y ---------A-------Q---------------Z ------------------------------- -----------------R
Below is Pro-Near
-X---------T-G-C-G-T------Y -----------------Q-----A---------Z ------------------------------- -----------------R
Below is Pro East
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-----Y -----------------Q---------------Z ---------------------A--------- -----------------R
Now Pro West
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-----Y -----------------Q---------------Z -------------A---------------- -----------------R
Now Pro I (Note this doesn't accurately show backfield spacing but you get the idea)
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-----Y -----------------Q---------------Z -----------------A------------ -----------------R
Now Pro Slot
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-----Y -----A----------Q----------------Z ------------------------------- -----------------R
Now Pro Acer
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-----Y -----------------Q--------------A----Z ------------------------------- -----------------R
Now Pro Wide
-----X---------T-G-C-G-T-----Y -A------------------Q-----------------Z --------------------------------- ---------------------R
And so on. You can do the same thing from say a different set. I call this Twins Tight
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-Y ------Z---------Q--------------- ------------------------------- -----------------R
Twins Tt Near
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-Y ------Z---------Q--------A------ ------------------------------- -----------------R
Twins Tt Wing
-X---------T-G-C-G-T-Y ----Z----A------Q--------------- ------------------------------- -----------------R
Twins Tt Wide
-----X---------T-G-C-G-T-Y -A--------Z---------Q--------------- ------------------------------- ---------------------R
Hope that makes sense. I think it's very multiple and variable. You can do a real easy diagram where you should the different sets for "A." If you don't have an A who can do all of these, you can substitute that player in and out. From there you can have a few simple sets that tell everyone what to do and don't have a call for A: "split" (splitbacks, or the base call from 2-back gun, i.e. Gun split), "Bunch" (basic bunch set right with the bunch 4 yards from the tackle), Gator (Base 5-wide set), etc.
Last, if we go in "Gun" the R back will just align wherever he needs to run the play, i.e. IZ, counter, or his protection responsibility. Like I said, if we are using 2-backs in gun we say "split" which tells R to line up to the QB's right and "A" to line up to his left.
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 2, 2008 13:03:25 GMT -6
Sorry this post is so long with the diagrams. If it's a real pain let me know and I will shorten it or something.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 2, 2008 13:25:01 GMT -6
Name them after hot chicks.
or movie titles
or cars
or cartoon characters
or animals
really doesnt matter...honestly.
I used to use R words for formations that were strong right and L words for formations that were strong left... I dont even give the double wing a name...its just what I want the kids to line up in every time unless I change it.
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catoc
Sophomore Member
Posts: 202
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Post by catoc on Jan 2, 2008 13:55:00 GMT -6
two tight slots/two split ends- ACE SPLIT two wide slots/two split ends- GREEN two wings/two tight ends- ACE TIGHT right slot/two twins right/one tight end left- RED SLOT two tight ends/two flankers- GOLD TIGHT te wing right/se and tight slot left- GOLD SLOT te wing right/se left with back lined up 3 deep behind left tackle- ? tight slot left/tight end,se,flanker right- GOLD SLOT TIGHT
You can nemt them anything. The kids will learn them. You can have a name for each formation or you can have a name for a base formation and add tags tomove one player. Kids will learn whatever you teach them.
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Post by coachnichols on Jan 2, 2008 13:55:33 GMT -6
Name them after hot chicks. or movie titles or cars or cartoon characters or animals really doesnt matter...honestly. I used to use R words for formations that were strong right and L words for formations that were strong left... I dont even give the double wing a name...its just what I want the kids to line up in every time unless I change it. Excellent idea! Anything to make that connection in the brain of our players. As for me, I use team names for my running plays, but more "traditional" terms for formations. ACE .....................X..T..G..C..G..T..Y ......H.........................Q.........................Z .................................T RACE .....................X..T..G..C..G..T..Y .................................Q....................H........Z .................................T LACE .....................X..T..G..C..G..T..Y ...Z.....H.....................Q .................................T DOUBLES ......X..................T..G..C..G..T........................Y ................H................Q...................Z ..................................T TIGHT DOUBLES .................X......T..G..C..G..T......Y .....................H..........Q.........Z ..................................T RIGHT SLOT ......X..................T..G..C..G..T..Y ..............H..................Q........................Z ..................................T RIGHT SLOT WING ......X..................T..G..C..G..T..Y ..............H..................Q.............Z ..................................T RIGHT TRIPS ......X..................T..G..C..G..T..Y ............Z....H..............Q ..................................T RIGHT TREY ......X..................T..G..C..G..T..Y ..................................Q...................H.......Z ..................................T
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Post by burtledog on Jan 2, 2008 14:31:42 GMT -6
jetsweep.com. Coach Elrod has a system with up to 200 different formations...I know it sounds wild, but one of the coaches claims he has used the system for years and thinks he has used that many.
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bigcroz
Junior Member
Go STAGS!!
Posts: 356
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Post by bigcroz on Jan 2, 2008 15:24:26 GMT -6
I use Coach Elrods system and with the formation names and a few tags I probably have used 40-50 different formations in the last 2 season using that system. Not that difficult and the kids picked it up rather quickly. Always that one or two rocket scientist that cant remember 1 or 2 but for the most part it has been pretty smooth.
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Post by lochness on Jan 2, 2008 15:34:22 GMT -6
We evolved our formation system over a LONG period of time, but essentially, we have it designed into segments so that specific information is given to specific players, and they know exactly what to concentrate on.
For example, we may run a bunch of different backfield sets. We can code them by a letter: "I" formation = I Basic Splitbacks = B Offset I Near = N Offset I Far = F Halfback Over = O Halfvack Weak = W or whatever....
Then we tell our Z receiver where to line up by using a slot number. Odd slots are to the left, even slots are to the right: 1/2: Power Back 3/4: Sniffer Back 5/6: Wing Back 7/8: Flanker Back
Then, we align our TE and SE with a directional call. TE goes to the call, SE goes away from the call... RIGHT: TE is right, SE is wide left LEFT: TE is left, SE is wide right
That way, all the backs care about is the "Letter," all the Z cares about is the "Slot Number" and all the Ends care about is the "Direction."
For example: "I8 Rt." is an "I" backfield, with the TE on the right, SE on the left, and Z in the flanker slot on the right. It is our "Pro I" look.
Everything else builds from there:
If we want to be single back, we use an additional slot number in place of the letter. This tells the HB (or extra Z if you want to make it a different personnel package) to align in whatever slot is called. It also tells the remaining back that he is in the single set position.
So, if we call "57 Rt." it puts the HB in the left wing, the Z in the left slot, the TE on the Right and the SE on the left, with a RB in the single set positon. This is effectively puts trips out to the left and a TE on the Right. We can run any number of single back combinations from here.
Then, all of the other adjustments are easy (double TE, double SE, etc. etc.)...!
It's a very good, flexible, and consistent way to call formations....but then again, it's pretty much the ONLY system I've used (aside from spending one year in the Wing-T and one running the West Coast terminology), so that is easy for me to say!
It may be a bit more verbally cumbersome, but it is very easy to teach, very easy for the kids to learn, and very flexible for whatever you want to do formationally.
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Post by justwingit on Jan 2, 2008 16:37:24 GMT -6
Ends - if we don't call a formation - both ends split - If we call Right - TE is on the right if we call Left - Te is on the left. if we call TIGHTS we have two TEs and if we call Both Right we have an unbalnced set with a tight end and spilt end right
Backs - If there is no call we are in a T, If we call BLue - backs are left(trips), BRown - backs are right. Green - RH goes to wing - Gold - LH goes to wing. Seldon move our Fullback but if we want the fullbck as a slot we call FRed for fullback right , and FLintstone for fullback left
YOu mix those all together and you have about thousand formation possibilities --
for ex. Right Blue - gives us a TE right , Se left, with both HBs left in a trips Tights Green - gives us a two TE look with a wingback right Gold - gives us a two SE look with a slot on the left
The players know their formation calls after the first ten minutes of the first practice.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Jan 2, 2008 16:49:58 GMT -6
A Formation = TE on Right B Formation = TE on left This is our base call for I formation. example play call : A 30 Trap.
A-4 = HB in slot away from TE ..example A-4 30 trap B-4 =HB in slot away from TE
A-5 = Halfback and fullback align in slots B-5 = halfback and fullback align in slots example: B-5 Draw.
A-Trips = halfback and Z align away from TE - A-Trips Speed Option right. B-Trips =.halfback and Z align away from TE
A-Twins = Z aligns away from TE - A-Twins Iso Right. B-Twins = Z aligns away from TE
We can Designate Gun by simply saying A-4 Gun
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Post by dubber on Jan 2, 2008 17:09:25 GMT -6
two tight slots/two split ends two wide slots/two split ends two wings/two tight ends right slot/two twins right/one tight end left two tight ends/two flankers te wing right/se and tight slot left te wing right/se left with back lined up 3 deep behind left tackle tight slot left/tight end,se,flanker right Are you planning on using different personnel groupings for these formations? That might help kids remember. It seems to me the first 3 formations have the same personnel groupings....2 SE, 2 slots (wide or tight) The next two have similar personnel.....2 TE, 2 WB/FL And the last three.........1 SE, 1 TE, 2 slots/HB I will put forth my suggestions, which come from common names I have heard these formations called (and a little imagination): 1. shoot 2. spread 3. Trips 4. Wing 5. Ace 6. Red (blue) 7. Buck 8. Over With personnel groupings, you could have guys who only have to know certain things (like HEAVY personnel only has to know Wing and Ace) Certainly, you will have guys that overlap personnel groupings.
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Post by wingtol on Jan 2, 2008 17:12:54 GMT -6
We run wing-t but do not use the Deleware term. What we do is we will place the wing first in a formation: wing rt wing lt dbl wing. The we use a three digit numbering system for our plays. The first number tells the tight end where to line up. 2nd and 3rd are back and hole number.
So a call for us would be wing rt 234 power. 200 tell the TE to line up right 100 tells TE to go left. 900 for us is 2 SE so we could go double wing 900. 5/600 put the te and se on the same side. Thats just how we do it seems to work well.
We will name formations if we have to and try and make them as simple as possible but we try and stick with the numbers.
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Post by kurtbryan on Jan 2, 2008 18:09:45 GMT -6
In our system, everything has an opposite, and starts from our BASE set:
Base
X...................R..................U...C...Y.......................E.......................Z ..........A.............................................................................B.......... ..........................................2......................................................... ...............................................1....................................................
"43" formation:
X....R....A....B...........................U...C...Y............................................ ..........................................................................E................Z...... ..............................................2.................................................... ....................................................1..............................................
34:
.......................................U...C...Y................A......B.....E......Z..... ....X.........R............................................................................... .................................................2................................................. ...........................................1..............................................
"241 Wide Stagger"
..............A.............R.................U...C...Y...E.................B.................. X..................................................................................................Z ......................................................1.............................................. ............................................................2........................................
Note: "Wide" means X & Z are OFF the L.O.S.
"133"
x............................................U...C...Y................E...........B............Z ..............A.............R........................2............................................. ..................................................1..................................................
"331"
x.............A............R..............U...C...Y.............................................Z ..............................................2.......................E...............B.............. ..................................................1...................................................
KB
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Post by autiger7 on Jan 2, 2008 20:16:58 GMT -6
We use tags to our base formations.
X------------OOOOO----------------------X -------------A----Q---B--------------------- ------------------C LOOSE
X--------------OOOOO------------------------X -----A-------------Q----B --------------------C A loose
x--------------OOOOOY --------------A----Q-----B --------------------C Right X--------------OOOOOY ---------------A---Q---------------------B --------------------C B Right
Just have five or so bases and build formations from there. If you want the A back to bump out add A if you want the B back add B if You want the TE add Y and if you want multiple add AB/BY ect. Our bases are right/left Rex/leo(unbalance) Loose Tight and a trips
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Post by carookie on Jan 3, 2008 0:39:52 GMT -6
I did this when I was a HC at MS, now I'm in HS and doing defense so I dont know if it is too simplistic for you all, but I went and dug it out so here it goes.
My Offensive formation is called by a Color followed by two letters, and then a one word call for any motion (if there is no motion we also have a call to keep the play calling tempo the same). Color indicates our backfield alignment; we have six possible alignments, so our backs only need to know six formations (but its even easier than that; QB knows White/Black under center everything else is shotgun). The two letters indicate the alignment for the receivers, we have 12 letters that we use (first letter is for left side of the alignment, second for the right side). All any of the receivers have to remember though is six letters (they don't need to know other players formations, just theres). For example Black AX Zap: Black: two backs I form A(1st letter left side): Z Receiver left TE Left X (2nd letter right side): X WR wide right Zap (Motion) Z receiver motion across formation.
So all anyone had to know was 6 formations (although to be honest my 3's could either be RB or WR so they had to know 9) but I was afforded the luxury of running multiple formations and out flank them, yet maintain simplicity that the young ones could handle. All told We had 10 ace back formations, and four 2 back formations; you could run all of them to the left or right, under center or out of the gun. That was enough possibility for me.
I dunno if this helps any, it was basic enough that even the 6th graders never lined up wrong, although all the HS programs Ive been a part of seem a lot more complex than this so It may be a bit too basic.
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Post by morris on Jan 3, 2008 6:52:38 GMT -6
Coverdale's formation system he goes over in the basic quick gam ebook is very good and easy. Allows you to get into a number of formations very very easy. the other thing is I know a number of people that teach the formations in blocks. Depending on numbers and such it makes it easy also. What I meanby blocks is not everyone on the O has to know the entire formation just their key words
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Post by justwingit on Jan 3, 2008 15:17:21 GMT -6
Isn't it funny how the system each of use seems simple to us and other terminology doesn't. Probably ought to let the kids name all the stuff.
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Post by tog on Jan 3, 2008 15:22:21 GMT -6
Isn't it funny how the system each of use seems simple to us and other terminology doesn't. Probably ought to let the kids name all the stuff. this is so true the elrod and most wing-t formation systems just read like chinese to me lochness yours is like reading spanish-----i get it, but it would take time to be fluent very effective though
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Post by lochness on Jan 3, 2008 15:39:55 GMT -6
Isn't it funny how the system each of use seems simple to us and other terminology doesn't. Probably ought to let the kids name all the stuff. this is so true the elrod and most wing-t formation systems just read like chinese to me lochness yours is like reading spanish-----i get it, but it would take time to be fluent very effective though It's funny that you say that...but I know that it's true. In 2006, we went away to camp with another local school (although not in our same division) and we would scrimmage them every day. One of the things we like to do in the scrimmages is to have a coach write on a white board what play has been called in the huddle and show that to the rest of the team that is standing by, so they know what play has been called and can watch their positions and learn. Anyway, the other teams head coach was over on our side (our staffs have a good relationship, so we were very open with each other during the course of the camp). On the last day of the camp, the HC of the other team was saying, "coach, I've seen a lot of terminology systems in my time, but I was trying to figure out your plays by what was written on that whiteboard and I didn't have a CLUE what it was saying...!" When I explained the system to him, he really liked it, but said that he felt it was very different than what he was used to. I wish I could take credit for it all, but it is very similar to the system I actually played in when I was in HS. Then, I came back after coaching 3 years of youth and spent 3 years coaching for my former HC, so I used that same system there. Over the following 7 years, we continued to develop and refine that system to where I think it is something we can uniquely call our own...!
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Post by huskyskins on Jan 3, 2008 15:54:21 GMT -6
I use colors with modifiers in my wing-T.
Base formations: Green - The “R” in Green tells the TE to align to the right and the RHB to align in the Wing position. Green is a school color so the opposite HB aligns in a Dive position.
Yellow - The “L” in Yellow tells the TE to align to the left and the LHB to align in the Wing position. Yellow is a school color so the opposite HB aligns in a Dive position.
Red - The “R” in Red tells the TE to align to the right and the RHB to align in the Wing position. Red is not a school color so the opposite HB aligns in a Wing position.
Blue - The “L” in Blue tells the TE to align to the left and the LHB to align in the Wing position. Blue is not a school color so the opposite HB aligns in a Wing position.
Modifying prefixes: Spread - Swaps sides of TE and SE only.
Loose - TE splits wide. Usually sub in #2 SE.
Tight - SE aligns tight. Usually sub in #2 TE.
Right - Both ends line up on right side unbalanced.
Left - Both ends line up on left side unbalanced.
Split - SE aligns 4-6 yards outside OT.
My HB's need to know the four colors only. Ends need to know their right and left and what the modifiers mean. They're pretty descriptive, so that helps.
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Post by coachdawhip on Jan 3, 2008 16:19:05 GMT -6
To me elrod is the easily ever
two tight slots/two split ends Cowboy two wide slots/two split ends Doubles two wings/two tight ends Stud right slot/two twins right/one tight end left two tight ends/two flankers titan te wing right/se and tight slot left red/blue te wing right/se left with back lined up 3 deep behind left tackle tight slot left/tight end,se,flanker right
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 3, 2008 23:33:38 GMT -6
all of our formations have to do with playing cards, the kids just remember the names
diamonds duce hearts clubs Ace etc.
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