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Post by coachgunem on Sept 22, 2013 11:04:18 GMT -6
I'm currently coaching in a youth league(offensive coordinator), and I am at a crossroads, our team is 1-3, and our parents is slowly losing faith in our team. Here's the problems that exist so far, 1)It seems that when were down early in a game, our kids seem to check out, right along with our HC. 2)We have a third coach that only wants to do the mpr sheet, instead of helping the oc, and dc with what's happening on the field to help us out. 3)It seems like these group of kids posses no type of discipline when it come to any phase of the game, either in timeout(there all over the place instead of being in the huddle, kids arguing on the sideline and the coaches are just watching then do so. I'm not saying that im perfect in all of this, but reason being is that I've had a parent earlier in the season complain about me being too rough with them and not letting them have there way in practice, so I was told by our board to take a backseat..I'm in desperation mode!!!! Please HELP ME, what should be my next step?
I was a hc last year(10-13 age group) and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs 7-1 in the regular season, and ran a very tight ship, but removed and dropped down due to in my opinion being too young..
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 22, 2013 12:06:57 GMT -6
I'm currently coaching in a youth league(offensive coordinator), and I am at a crossroads, our team is 1-3, and our parents is slowly losing faith in our team. Here's the problems that exist so far, 1)It seems that when were down early in a game, our kids seem to check out, right along with our HC. How old are they? You said you coached 10-13YO last year, but not how old this yr. What you're describing is not typical of young people, but as they get older (including those old enough to coach), it is sometimes seen and is hard to break out of. Working that sheet can take a lot of time & concentr'n for much of the game. Unless you can satisfy everyone's play time requirement early in the game and thus free him for other duties, I wouldn't distract him! They're kids. However, I have seen better & worse in that regard. I've also noted race differences, blacks being likelier (alone or as a group) to wander & be distracted than whites, as well of course as age differences. Clearly you're going against the culture of the club. The players, coaches, and admin. all want a looser approach less focused on the competition. Unfortunately looser is loser. Go with the flow. Either let them have it the way they want, since clearly they outnumber you, or find another club you fit better with. It'd be another matter if you said about half were one way and half the other and you were in position to decide things, but you seem to present is as them all being one way and you the other. In actuality you probably do have some who agree with you, but presumably you're a small minority. |
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Post by coachgunem on Sept 22, 2013 12:33:11 GMT -6
This year the age group is 9-12, and the group I had last year was 11-13...and as far as the 3rd coach, in our league, badge personnel including coaches are not suppose to handle mpr duties, but for some reason he's the 1st one to volunteer...go figure..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 13:35:26 GMT -6
I have said this before...If it is happening in games, it is happening in practice.
And if you think kids don't know a coach or coaches don't know what they doing and when they are blowing smoke, you are mistaken.
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Post by coachgunem on Sept 22, 2013 14:49:43 GMT -6
You are right, the practices are mediocre at best, due to our hc not being a take charge coach, and the other one only coming to one practice a week, because I removed his son from starting rb(he just wasn't a fit for what I was looking for). Our admin has really restrained me from being the type of coach that these kids definitely need.
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 22, 2013 21:59:28 GMT -6
This year the age group is 9-12, and the group I had last year was 11-13...and as far as the 3rd coach, in our league, badge personnel including coaches are not suppose to handle mpr duties, but for some reason he's the 1st one to volunteer...go figure.. Why does he say he does it when you ask him in advance to help in other ways on game day? Could he be trying to butter up admin. to get a better coaching position in the future? |
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Post by coachdoug on Sept 23, 2013 8:59:07 GMT -6
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Post by 33coach on Sept 23, 2013 14:59:21 GMT -6
I'm currently coaching in a youth league(offensive coordinator), and I am at a crossroads, our team is 1-3, and our parents is slowly losing faith in our team. Here's the problems that exist so far, 1)It seems that when were down early in a game, our kids seem to check out, right along with our HC. 2)We have a third coach that only wants to do the mpr sheet, instead of helping the oc, and dc with what's happening on the field to help us out. 3)It seems like these group of kids posses no type of discipline when it come to any phase of the game, either in timeout(there all over the place instead of being in the huddle, kids arguing on the sideline and the coaches are just watching then do so. I'm not saying that im perfect in all of this, but reason being is that I've had a parent earlier in the season complain about me being too rough with them and not letting them have there way in practice, so I was told by our board to take a backseat..I'm in desperation mode!!!! Please HELP ME, what should be my next step? I was a hc last year(10-13 age group) and lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs 7-1 in the regular season, and ran a very tight ship, but removed and dropped down due to in my opinion being too young.. issue 1: thats kids... we get it all the time. when they dont believe they can win...they fold. Issue 2: if your not the head coach, that 3rd coach...doesnt exist to you. just ignore him and do your thing... issue 3: discipline is just like the game. its taught in practice and exicuted in the games...if its not being taught...then how do you expect them to perform it? this is not a situation you can solve if you are not the head coach.... just duck down and try to survive the storm. |
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Post by carrcaleb on Sept 24, 2013 7:16:13 GMT -6
Welcome to my nightmare, coach. Had very similar issues earlier this season myself. The best advice I received (on this board) was to only be concerned with the things I can control. Easier said then done, I know, coming from a former HC myself. You will lose your mind if you are too concerned about the other things that are outside of your control. Obviously we want what is best for the kids and want to do whatever we can to make sure that happens. In this situation there are several things that you don't/won't have control over at any point and for that reason it is best, like 33coach said, for you to do YOUR job and not worry so much about the d bags you have been stuck coaching with. Coach your boys up and remember you will play how you practice, so take your portion of practice and do your thing. Good luck
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Post by mahonz on Sept 24, 2013 11:22:40 GMT -6
Welcome to my nightmare, coach. Had very similar issues earlier this season myself. The best advice I received (on this board) was to only be concerned with the things I can control. Easier said then done, I know, coming from a former HC myself. You will lose your mind if you are too concerned about the other things that are outside of your control. Obviously we want what is best for the kids and want to do whatever we can to make sure that happens. In this situation there are several things that you don't/won't have control over at any point and for that reason it is best, like 33coach said, for you to do YOUR job and not worry so much about the d bags you have been stuck coaching with. Coach your boys up and remember you will play how you practice, so take your portion of practice and do your thing. Good luck I don't get it. A Youth Staff should roll as one IMHO. A good Header starts out as the Dictator then learns to delegate giving his crew ownership in something during the pre season. Pride in ownership after trust is earned. If the Header doesn't know this it seems he should be told this. As an experienced Coach....if you sit idly by and follow along with the " d-bags" you are stuck with....doesn't just doing your job and only your job make you the biggest d-bag on the Staff? I am rarely the Header....by design. Its a young mans job. I teach kids and the Coaches when necessary. Watching a ship sink because someone advised you to do so....is really poor advise. There is indeed a Hierarchy on any Staff but at this level there should always be plenty of gray area to work within...reasonably like adults...unless of course you are getting paid. If you are all about the kids....you must help out the d-bags....not ignore them. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 24, 2013 12:55:25 GMT -6
Welcome to my nightmare, coach. Had very similar issues earlier this season myself. The best advice I received (on this board) was to only be concerned with the things I can control. Easier said then done, I know, coming from a former HC myself. You will lose your mind if you are too concerned about the other things that are outside of your control. Obviously we want what is best for the kids and want to do whatever we can to make sure that happens. In this situation there are several things that you don't/won't have control over at any point and for that reason it is best, like 33coach said, for you to do YOUR job and not worry so much about the d bags you have been stuck coaching with. Coach your boys up and remember you will play how you practice, so take your portion of practice and do your thing. Good luck I don't get it. A Youth Staff should roll as one IMHO. A good Header starts out as the Dictator then learns to delegate giving his crew ownership in something during the pre season. Pride in ownership after trust is earned. If the Header doesn't know this it seems he should be told this. As an experienced Coach....if you sit idly by and follow along with the " d-bags" you are stuck with....doesn't just doing your job and only your job make you the biggest d-bag on the Staff? I am rarely the Header....by design. Its a young mans job. I teach kids and the Coaches when necessary. Watching a ship sink because someone advised you to do so....is really poor advise. There is indeed a Hierarchy on any Staff but at this level there should always be plenty of gray area to work within...reasonably like adults...unless of course you are getting paid. If you are all about the kids....you must help out the d-bags....not ignore them. I think what you advise would be good on the level of a single team, but (unless I'm gauging the situation wrong) what we have here is a multi-team club where the person we're communicating with is at odds with the laid-back culture of the entire club, not just the team. I've noticed considerable differences between clubs in terms of their culture. For instance, where I'm coaching now, the coaches of all the teams do little form instruction and a lot of full-contact scrimmage-like drills, as well as informal scrimmaging between each other. I've concluded that they've gotten into this habit as a way of making practice more fun than it would be in other clubs, and since it's house ball, the lack of form coaching doesn't hurt anybody competitively. It would be hard for one team to break out of this pattern and have their players spend time bird-dogging, for instance, when they could look around at the other teams doing Oklahomas & such. Much as the lack of form coaching (and often of practice time generally) bothers me, I see that this club has been operating continuously since 1952, the director of football ops. having been there from the start, and I figure they know what they're doing. |
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Post by 33coach on Sept 24, 2013 13:11:02 GMT -6
Welcome to my nightmare, coach. Had very similar issues earlier this season myself. The best advice I received (on this board) was to only be concerned with the things I can control. Easier said then done, I know, coming from a former HC myself. You will lose your mind if you are too concerned about the other things that are outside of your control. Obviously we want what is best for the kids and want to do whatever we can to make sure that happens. In this situation there are several things that you don't/won't have control over at any point and for that reason it is best, like 33coach said, for you to do YOUR job and not worry so much about the d bags you have been stuck coaching with. Coach your boys up and remember you will play how you practice, so take your portion of practice and do your thing. Good luck I don't get it. A Youth Staff should roll as one IMHO. A good Header starts out as the Dictator then learns to delegate giving his crew ownership in something during the pre season. Pride in ownership after trust is earned. If the Header doesn't know this it seems he should be told this. As an experienced Coach....if you sit idly by and follow along with the " d-bags" you are stuck with....doesn't just doing your job and only your job make you the biggest d-bag on the Staff? I am rarely the Header....by design. Its a young mans job. I teach kids and the Coaches when necessary. Watching a ship sink because someone advised you to do so....is really poor advise. There is indeed a Hierarchy on any Staff but at this level there should always be plenty of gray area to work within...reasonably like adults...unless of course you are getting paid. If you are all about the kids....you must help out the d-bags....not ignore them. young head coaches rarely want to give up control, that's why I choose my headcoaches wisely, ive been with the same one since 2009 and its worked wonderfully...this is the process: 1) he decides the "type" of defense we are going to run----->Odd, Even, or Multiple Fronts ----->Zone or Man Coverage ----->High Pressure, or Conservative so he comes to me in January and says: I want to run a high pressure, odd front, and primarily zone coverage then I decide what front/coverage and pressures to put in based on those requirements. then I go and buy/find AS much material as I can on the subject. and hand out "homework" to my assistants; This is barely after our first coaches meeting of the year 2) he decides what offensethen he hands out the homework to the assistants and myself on how to teach positions. then we have a few coaches meetings, we decide who is coaching what positions...what our install schedule is going to be like, what drills we are going to use, which ones we arnt. and then when we get into camp...we are good to go: --->parents love it because we look professional --->kids love it because we have all the answers and everyone is doing something --->we love it because we are prepared and we can control the situation. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 15:12:14 GMT -6
I don't understand how anybody can legitimately ask a HC to give up his side of the ball or even ask such a thing. If the HC is a HC because he is the only who wanted the job that is one thing, and an entirely different problem. But if he was an oc and a successful one, at the youth level its insane to ask him to let anybody off the street, which it often is, to come in and run whatever he thinks. That is insane.
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Post by carrcaleb on Sept 25, 2013 6:17:36 GMT -6
mahonz
I couldn't agree more, any staff "SHOULD" roll as one. That's perfect world stuff right there. That's not always the case though. If you haven't experienced a garbage coach who doesn't want to learn, won't ask for help and insists on doing things his way even if it couldn't be any more wrong, I'm happy for you. Some of us have and it sounds like in the original post that this coach has one on his staff. When you can't choose who you coach with this situation happens. When there is nothing you can do about it, what is your choice? Demand he do things your way? No, that's not the answer. That will only cause more issues to deal with. What you can do though, is YOUR job. coachgunem is OC, so coach the offense. If he were HC he could change the world but he's not. Like I was told....Put your head down and deal with it
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Post by spos21ram on Sept 25, 2013 7:17:15 GMT -6
You are right, the practices are mediocre at best, due to our hc not being a take charge coach, and the other one only coming to one practice a week, because I removed his son from starting rb(he just wasn't a fit for what I was looking for). Our admin has really restrained me from being the type of coach that these kids definitely need. You have the power to chose who is starting, but not the power to run a disciplined practice? It's the whole staffs fault, not just the HC. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by mahonz on Sept 25, 2013 10:08:52 GMT -6
I don't get it. A Youth Staff should roll as one IMHO. A good Header starts out as the Dictator then learns to delegate giving his crew ownership in something during the pre season. Pride in ownership after trust is earned. If the Header doesn't know this it seems he should be told this. As an experienced Coach....if you sit idly by and follow along with the " d-bags" you are stuck with....doesn't just doing your job and only your job make you the biggest d-bag on the Staff? I am rarely the Header....by design. Its a young mans job. I teach kids and the Coaches when necessary. Watching a ship sink because someone advised you to do so....is really poor advise. There is indeed a Hierarchy on any Staff but at this level there should always be plenty of gray area to work within...reasonably like adults...unless of course you are getting paid. If you are all about the kids....you must help out the d-bags....not ignore them. young head coaches rarely want to give up control, that's why I choose my headcoaches wisely, ive been with the same one since 2009 and its worked wonderfully...this is the process: 1) he decides the "type" of defense we are going to run----->Odd, Even, or Multiple Fronts ----->Zone or Man Coverage ----->High Pressure, or Conservative so he comes to me in January and says: I want to run a high pressure, odd front, and primarily zone coverage then I decide what front/coverage and pressures to put in based on those requirements. then I go and buy/find AS much material as I can on the subject. and hand out "homework" to my assistants; This is barely after our first coaches meeting of the year 2) he decides what offensethen he hands out the homework to the assistants and myself on how to teach positions. then we have a few coaches meetings, we decide who is coaching what positions...what our install schedule is going to be like, what drills we are going to use, which ones we arnt. and then when we get into camp...we are good to go: --->parents love it because we look professional --->kids love it because we have all the answers and everyone is doing something --->we love it because we are prepared and we can control the situation. 33 You all do it right. Your Header is lucky to have you. When I first start participating on these Forums I used to think most every Youth League was like mine. A Staff in place by April or May at the latest. That is not the case. Many Staffs don't come together until a week before pre season which....like Bob suggests....is a problem within an Org and should be addressed by the Org. Still...under these circumstances a Staff can still come together via weekly meetings off the field. I think that is the disconnect...generally. Its a pre season free for all with little to no communications between the Coaches. |
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Post by 33coach on Sept 25, 2013 10:18:43 GMT -6
young head coaches rarely want to give up control, that's why I choose my headcoaches wisely, ive been with the same one since 2009 and its worked wonderfully...this is the process: 1) he decides the "type" of defense we are going to run----->Odd, Even, or Multiple Fronts ----->Zone or Man Coverage ----->High Pressure, or Conservative so he comes to me in January and says: I want to run a high pressure, odd front, and primarily zone coverage then I decide what front/coverage and pressures to put in based on those requirements. then I go and buy/find AS much material as I can on the subject. and hand out "homework" to my assistants; This is barely after our first coaches meeting of the year 2) he decides what offensethen he hands out the homework to the assistants and myself on how to teach positions. then we have a few coaches meetings, we decide who is coaching what positions...what our install schedule is going to be like, what drills we are going to use, which ones we arnt. and then when we get into camp...we are good to go: --->parents love it because we look professional --->kids love it because we have all the answers and everyone is doing something --->we love it because we are prepared and we can control the situation. 33 You all do it right. Your Header is lucky to have you. When I first start participating on these Forums I used to think most every Youth League was like mine. A Staff in place by April or May at the latest. That is not the case. Many Staffs don't come together until a week before pre season which....like Bob suggests....is a problem within an Org and should be addressed by the Org. Still...under these circumstances a Staff can still come together via weekly meetings off the field. I think that is the disconnect...generally. Its a pre season free for all with little to no communications between the Coaches. football is the only youth sport i know that takes preseason preperation from coaches. if you have 5 guys coaching, and you dont know eachothers strengths and weaknesses and have an idea of WHAT you want to do...your going to be in trouble. talent only gets you so far...at some point your talent has to know which way to go...  maybe thats why i like it. its a coaches sport almost as much as it is a players sport |
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Post by mahonz on Sept 25, 2013 10:19:52 GMT -6
I don't understand how anybody can legitimately ask a HC to give up his side of the ball or even ask such a thing. If the HC is a HC because he is the only who wanted the job that is one thing, and an entirely different problem. But if he was an oc and a successful one, at the youth level its insane to ask him to let anybody off the street, which it often is, to come in and run whatever he thinks. That is insane. The best Staffs I have worked on...the Header is a floater and maybe a positions Coach. He can now oversee every aspect of every practice session coaching up both the players and his Coaches and then manages the game on game day. This works beyond well. The Header is still the Dictator of all systems, personnel, philosophy, etc.... but now can assure that it all happens to his own specifications. What is really amazing is how fast and efficient all of the teaching now becomes. The only issue....when Header has no clue. He must know everything about everything for this to work....or if he is short on something like LB'r play....he delegates a coach to teach these positions that has more experience in this area....or will at least get on Hueys and learn how to teach LB'r play. This place is the Football Britannica of Coaching. That is a youth staff rolling as one. What is odd about these Forums is this very Thread....an AC complaining about something....where are the Headers? |
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Post by 33coach on Sept 25, 2013 10:28:24 GMT -6
I don't understand how anybody can legitimately ask a HC to give up his side of the ball or even ask such a thing. If the HC is a HC because he is the only who wanted the job that is one thing, and an entirely different problem. But if he was an oc and a successful one, at the youth level its insane to ask him to let anybody off the street, which it often is, to come in and run whatever he thinks. That is insane. The best Staffs I have worked on...the Header is a floater and maybe a positions Coach. He can now oversee every aspect of every practice session coaching up both the players and his Coaches and then manages the game on game day. This works beyond well. The Header is still the Dictator of all systems, personnel, philosophy, etc.... but now can assure that it all happens to his own specifications. What is really amazing is how fast and efficient all of the teaching now becomes. The only issue....when Header has no clue. He must know everything about everything for this to work....or if he is short on something like LB'r play....he delegates a coach to teach these positions that has more experience in this area....or will at least get on Hueys and learn how to teach LB'r play. This place is the Football Britannica of Coaching. That is a youth staff rolling as one. What is odd about these Forums is this very Thread....an AC complaining about something....where are the Headers? this is 100% truth. a HC needs to be a CEO type. someone who knows what his business needs to do to succeed on the most detailed level. now, he may not know the specific role that each employee (player) plays, but that's why you have managers (coaches) to train and manage the players. but if your header is not in control of your team...your in for a long season (unless you have a full team of gifted athletes, NFL prospects at 5 years old, who just blow everyone away without the need for scheme...) |
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Post by mahonz on Sept 25, 2013 10:36:40 GMT -6
mahonz I couldn't agree more, any staff "SHOULD" roll as one. That's perfect world stuff right there. That's not always the case though. If you haven't experienced a garbage coach who doesn't want to learn, won't ask for help and insists on doing things his way even if it couldn't be any more wrong, I'm happy for you. Some of us have and it sounds like in the original post that this coach has one on his staff. When you can't choose who you coach with this situation happens. When there is nothing you can do about it, what is your choice? Demand he do things your way? No, that's not the answer. That will only cause more issues to deal with. What you can do though, is YOUR job. coachgunem is OC, so coach the offense. If he were HC he could change the world but he's not. Like I was told....Put your head down and deal with it Excellent point. I have never....in 30 years....been on a garbage Staff so I truly do not understand how this happens. What I do know from reading these types of Threads....when things go South...its too late. Have to make sure most everything is rolling along before its goes South. That requires good communication. If the Header is a poor communicator he should be fired during the off season. The only way for that to happen is to let the Org know....this guy sucks as an organizer of people. That is why our Org will hire a non Football person if need be to become a Header that owns a business or is a manager of many people. Being a Header is nothing more than organizing people....and if he is good at that....with some support from the Org he can learn about the game of football in no time or at least know how to delegate to others that have some experience. It will take a few seasons to learn how to truly "coach" football but knowing the game and how to "manage" is the biggest step forward for the kids. There is a very young Coach in our Org that is currently struggling on the scoreboard and has been for a couple of years. But he is at least competitive and the Parents appreciate his efforts. He is a business owner and knows how to manage people. His retention rate is high. He will start winning soon. |
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Post by coachphillip on Sept 25, 2013 10:50:19 GMT -6
The best Staffs I have worked on...the Header is a floater and maybe a positions Coach. He can now oversee every aspect of every practice session coaching up both the players and his Coaches and then manages the game on game day. This works beyond well. The Header is still the Dictator of all systems, personnel, philosophy, etc.... but now can assure that it all happens to his own specifications. What is really amazing is how fast and efficient all of the teaching now becomes. The only issue....when Header has no clue. He must know everything about everything for this to work....or if he is short on something like LB'r play....he delegates a coach to teach these positions that has more experience in this area....or will at least get on Hueys and learn how to teach LB'r play. This place is the Football Britannica of Coaching. That is a youth staff rolling as one. What is odd about these Forums is this very Thread....an AC complaining about something....where are the Headers? this is 100% truth. a HC needs to be a CEO type. someone who knows what his business needs to do to succeed on the most detailed level. now, he may not know the specific role that each employee (player) plays, but that's why you have managers (coaches) to train and manage the players. but if your header is not in control of your team...your in for a long season (unless you have a full team of gifted athletes, NFL prospects at 5 years old, who just blow everyone away without the need for scheme...) This is most of what I see with the youth guys in my area. Offense: block somebody! Defense: hit somebody! I wish we had guys who taught fundamentals and fostered a love for the game like you guys. I actually had a youth coach tell me he was gonna weed out the trash for me. What the eff?! As for the OP, teams take on the personality of their coach. I'm about to sound like a Bay Area tree hugger, but I'll say it: "Be the change you wish to see in the world." It sounds like hippie nonsense but it holds true, especially in the coaching world. You're the OC. Is your offense organized? Is your offense staying focused throughout games and practices? Is your offense disciplined? If the answer is no, then fix it. It's YOUR OFFENSE. If the defense is jacked, then that's not your problem. Help his defense by running the best scout O he's ever seen. Empowerment is infectious. Unfortunately, so is frustration and powerlessness. Best of luck. |
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Post by mahonz on Sept 25, 2013 11:01:36 GMT -6
The best Staffs I have worked on...the Header is a floater and maybe a positions Coach. He can now oversee every aspect of every practice session coaching up both the players and his Coaches and then manages the game on game day. This works beyond well. The Header is still the Dictator of all systems, personnel, philosophy, etc.... but now can assure that it all happens to his own specifications. What is really amazing is how fast and efficient all of the teaching now becomes. The only issue....when Header has no clue. He must know everything about everything for this to work....or if he is short on something like LB'r play....he delegates a coach to teach these positions that has more experience in this area....or will at least get on Hueys and learn how to teach LB'r play. This place is the Football Britannica of Coaching. That is a youth staff rolling as one. What is odd about these Forums is this very Thread....an AC complaining about something....where are the Headers? this is 100% truth. a HC needs to be a CEO type. someone who knows what his business needs to do to succeed on the most detailed level. now, he may not know the specific role that each employee (player) plays, but that's why you have managers (coaches) to train and manage the players. but if your header is not in control of your team...your in for a long season (unless you have a full team of gifted athletes, NFL prospects at 5 years old, who just blow everyone away without the need for scheme...) My sons Header rolled this way when he started playing youth ball. He was the CEO. This was in the late 1980's and it really stuck with me. We are life long friends to this day. |
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Post by 33coach on Sept 25, 2013 11:03:32 GMT -6
this is great advice for anyone who has this or similar issues. run your side of the ball. that's all you can control! |
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