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Post by wingtol on Jul 11, 2006 13:51:50 GMT -6
I just read through a book about the line and found some quotes from a coach who I learned a great deal from. Thought I would throw them up and see what others think.
"If you can watch seven men at one time, you are better than I am. I have trouble watching a mans left arm. I have trouble watching seven at one time. I am not against using a seven man sled for conditioning if you want to condition kids after practice you can. If you start coaching them while you condition them you are wasting your time."(Talking about using a 7 man sled in practice.)
"I do not believe in using the boards to teach blocking. I have talked to coaches that said they used the boards to teach kids to keep their feet apart. If you can't teach them to keep their feet apart without boards you need to look at what you are teaching."
"... I know they do not study film when they tell me they roll the hips. We do not roll our hips. People will roll their hips but they do it naturally. You can not teach something that happens naturally."
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Post by brophy on Jul 11, 2006 13:58:27 GMT -6
"... I know they do not study film when they tell me they roll the hips. We do not roll our hips. People will roll their hips but they do it naturally. You can not teach something that happens naturally."  |
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 11, 2006 14:01:22 GMT -6
I just read through a book about the line and found some quotes from a coach who I learned a great deal from. Thought I would throw them up and see what others think. "If you can watch seven men at one time, you are better than I am. I have trouble watching a mans left arm. I have trouble watching seven at one time. I am not against using a seven man sled for conditioning if you want to condition kids after practice you can. If you start coaching them while you condition them you are wasting your time."(Talking about using a 7 man sled in practice.) "I do not believe in using the boards to teach blocking. I have talked to coaches that said they used the boards to teach kids to keep their feet apart. If you can't teach them to keep their feet apart without boards you need to look at what you are teaching." "... I know they do not study film when they tell me they roll the hips. We do not roll our hips. People will roll their hips but they do it naturally. You can not teach something that happens naturally." yknow, coaches do have a way of over complicating this stuff. I believe that guys who can really teach schemes and believe in their schemes over techniques would probably subscribe more to these types of ideas. I mean, there are 300 game winners out there who dont "teach steps" at all. they teach their schemes and they are great at it. |
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 11, 2006 14:08:05 GMT -6
This board is all about discussing things. As several coaches have said regarding various topics, there are many different ways to accomplish the same goal. If one method works for you, then use it - if it doesn't work for you then discard it.
Regarding the sled, I tend to agree with your anonymous quote. We use our 5 man sled to condition, to reinforce punch or fit or wrap/drive, and for a number of resistance drills using just one or two pads at a time.
We don't use boards with our OL simply because we don't. Our OL coach's progression works on keeping the feet wide and our kids have done a good job of this, both in practice and in games (where there aren't any boards!).
Not quite sure about the rolling the hips comment. Kids learn to walk and run "naturally" but they can be taught to do both better through technqiue and conditioning. Any number of drills will improve rolling the hips for running, blocking, and tackling so I would disagree with the statement of you can't teach something that happens naturally.
Next....
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 11, 2006 14:16:27 GMT -6
i think the roll the hips is a necessary teach just as it is in swinging a bat or tennis raquet...some kids dont turn the hips and swing all arms...some stuff just has to be covered and taught.
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Post by los on Jul 11, 2006 14:20:55 GMT -6
Thats funny stuff wingtol but probably true in some respects. I like the 2x8 board so the large blocking dummy i'm usually holding will slide a little easier to keep the boys from knocking me on my big a$$. And we usually do our 7 man sled drills as a station with one player at a time going thru but also do a no-huddle conditioning drill with 5-7 guys blocking for 3-4 consectutive 5 sec bursts at the end of line practice. The coach is right though cause with 2 coaches there watching, about the most you can really look at is getting off on the count and see if anyone is just leaning on it !
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Post by wingtol on Jul 11, 2006 14:59:34 GMT -6
Good points. I thought it would be fun to throw it up there and see what others had to say. He talked about the 7 man sled and how some coaches said it makes us come off the ball thogther, his counter reply was then you are only comming off the ball as fast as your slowest man.
Nice example there brophy Just noticed it ;D
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Post by phantom on Jul 11, 2006 15:03:45 GMT -6
"... I know they do not study film when they tell me they roll the hips. We do not roll our hips. People will roll their hips but they do it naturally. You can not teach something that happens naturally." Brophy, man you're one sick puppy. LOL. BTW, I replied with a quote mainly because I wanted to see it again. |
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Post by phantom on Jul 11, 2006 15:10:44 GMT -6
I just read through a book about the line and found some quotes from a coach who I learned a great deal from. Thought I would throw them up and see what others think. "If you can watch seven men at one time, you are better than I am. I have trouble watching a mans left arm. I have trouble watching seven at one time. I am not against using a seven man sled for conditioning if you want to condition kids after practice you can. If you start coaching them while you condition them you are wasting your time."(Talking about using a 7 man sled in practice.) "I do not believe in using the boards to teach blocking. I have talked to coaches that said they used the boards to teach kids to keep their feet apart. If you can't teach them to keep their feet apart without boards you need to look at what you are teaching." "... I know they do not study film when they tell me they roll the hips. We do not roll our hips. People will roll their hips but they do it naturally. You can not teach something that happens naturally." I don't know about the hip roll but I'm glad to see the other two. We don't have a sled larger than a 2-man and the OL doesn't use that (repping 15-20 guys two at a time gets time-consuming). We got rid of our 7-man fifteen years ago. Our boards kept getting stolen so we gave up on them. |
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Post by los on Jul 11, 2006 15:15:03 GMT -6
We just like the sled drill to see if the guys can concentrate on the snap count and not jump when their really tired. If one guy jumps they all get 10 pushups, and start their series of 4 plays from the beginning. It should be an easy less than 1 minute drill and get some water but usually doesn't work out that way lol!
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Post by phantom on Jul 11, 2006 15:38:06 GMT -6
I agree that the sled can be a good conditioner. We got rid of our sled because it was worn out and needed to be replaced. Those things are expensive and it did't seem to be cost-effective for conditioning.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Jul 11, 2006 16:45:35 GMT -6
LoS I use the sled as a bit of a conditioning tool too, and to emphasize their feet need to always be moving. If you stop your feet..the sled will tilt...which is what our offense does if they don't keep their feet moving ;p. When we get false starts on our 5 man sled, we make that group do it again, and again till they don't jump.
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Post by khalfie on Jul 11, 2006 17:06:48 GMT -6
This thread has slowly shifted to an "anti-sled" discussion...
And I can't believe what I'm hearing...
I'm a sled guy... offensive or defensive... there aren't many opportunities where a kid can fire off against a stud like the sled!
I look for several things when my guys go against the sled... and yes, I may not be able to watch them all at one time... but over time... I'll see where we are lacking...
1. Stance (When you are against the sled, you are going to war, you have to bring it, coach is watching and screaming... its almost real, do you kill your technique or do you revert to the juvenile?
2. Take off - (especially when we actually are going to hit something... many kids look good in take off drills when it just doesn't matter, but the sled hits back, you've got to hit right!)
3. Contact - (Bringing the hands or the soft shoulder on contact? ... where's the feet? Did you raise up or stay low... Bird dog!)
4. Follow through - (Short Choppies... Duck Walk... FLEX the HIPS...)
You can't get this 1 on 1... one kids better, doesn't have to work as hard... the Sled puts it on them!
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Post by phantom on Jul 11, 2006 17:30:44 GMT -6
I'm not anti-sled. We don't use them but, if you do and you're successful and happy with it, fine. Knock yourself out. We also rarely use bags or do competetive 1-on-1s. All of our fundamentals progression is done against live bodies. My complaint against sleds (besides the cost) is that they don't move, you don't have an aiming point, and that you don't really sink into the block on a sled as you do with a body.
I'm not trying to convince people that our way is best. I'm just saying that we've had success this way and want to let people know that, if they don't like sleds, they're not alone.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 11, 2006 17:42:22 GMT -6
khalfie....umm..one thign though. Sled doesn't move. It just sits there and lets you hit it.
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Post by wildcat on Jul 11, 2006 20:20:50 GMT -6
IMO, sleds (at least for us) are a huge time waster. Chutes are far more effective.
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Post by thehawke on Jul 11, 2006 21:05:04 GMT -6
I can assure you that Phantom has known the 7 man sled. We all must remember, "this is my way, what is your way?, there is no correct way,"
Method - way of proceeding
System - arrangement of parts into a whole
Scheme - plan of something to be done
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Post by tog on Jul 11, 2006 22:25:10 GMT -6
We use the sled some, but the sled doesn't fight back.
As for watching 7 men at one time. I don't know if that is what people really do as much as they know the offense well enough if something wrong happens they can "see" it and know what went wrong or happened. Agree? Disagree?
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Post by coachchad on Jul 11, 2006 23:42:40 GMT -6
While I agree that you may not be able to analyze all seven guys with great detail at once, that is not a great reason to not use it. If we are going to go with that theory, we need to only practice drills with one man going at a time and everybody else watching, so the coach can completely focus on the man that is going. I don't think anybody would argue that drills should be done that way. Getting seven guys allows a lot of reps to be done. You can still watch who you want while other guys are getting reps. The next time they come up, maybe you watch someone else. If you really want to study them all, have the drill filmed and then you can study each individual after practice. However, regardless of your value of training linemen on the sled, I think there is some merit in getting a bunch of them to go at one time. I don't think anybody does chutes with only 1 chute.
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Post by tog on Jul 11, 2006 23:53:49 GMT -6
While I agree that you may not be able to analyze all seven guys with great detail at once, that is not a great reason to not use it. If we are going to go with that theory, we need to only practice drills with one man going at a time and everybody else watching, so the coach can completely focus on the man that is going. I don't think anybody would argue that drills should be done that way. Getting seven guys allows a lot of reps to be done. You can still watch who you want while other guys are getting reps. The next time they come up, maybe you watch someone else. If you really want to study them all, have the drill filmed and then you can study each individual after practice. However, regardless of your value of training linemen on the sled, I think there is some merit in getting a bunch of them to go at one time. I don't think anybody does chutes with only 1 chute. well, I should have clarified, my "seeing" all seven statement was aimed more at like watching team or run hull , not using a sled like you say though, using a sled does get some reps though! I think there is a lot more to this thread than just sled stuff, the what you can see thing has some merit to discuss as well. |
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Post by spreadattack on Jul 12, 2006 6:50:24 GMT -6
The sled is not perfect, and they are expensive. If you have one though you can cycle through reps quickly, it conditions the relevant muscles, and what I like is even if you can't see all 5 or 7 guys what you can see is whether the sled is being drive back or spinning in a circle--tells you who is moving their feet.
this is a good thread though to evaluate why you do things. If you do it and get exactly what you want out of it, then fine. If you're doing it and not getting what you want, maybe there is something else.
Phantom, what did you find yourself replacing sled time with the most? To me if you're going to do sled and bags then you should be focusing on feet, legs and hips, with some explosion in there. We move to live-bodies when we're ready for hands. Of course I've never been a full-time line coach.
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