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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 17, 2013 15:09:36 GMT -6
I generally agree with your sentiments, but just to play devils advocate, does basketball season start during your football season? Practice starts here in Louisiana in Mid October, and games start in November. If you go deep in the playoffs, basketball kids are missing a month to a month and a half of "REAL BASKETBALL". And that is something that basketball coaches have had to deal with for a long long time. The proliferation of other sports into a summer that was once "reserved" for football because "it is the next sport" is somewhat recent isn't it? As I said, I wouldn't be against compromising. I don't know the OP's practice schedule but generally teams practice in the morning and Legion games are in the late afternoon. I'd have no problem letting them play in the games after they practice. I'd even cut their conditioning on days of games. I have no problem with working with them if they'll work with me. Problem is fantom, this is a regional tournament... which spans several states. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 17, 2013 15:19:12 GMT -6
As I said, I wouldn't be against compromising. I don't know the OP's practice schedule but generally teams practice in the morning and Legion games are in the late afternoon. I'd have no problem letting them play in the games after they practice. I'd even cut their conditioning on days of games. I have no problem with working with them if they'll work with me. Problem is fantom, this is a regional tournament... which spans several states. Oh, umm........never mind. |
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Post by s73 on Jul 17, 2013 15:22:29 GMT -6
s73 he says that it is separate from "our actual highschool baseball team". Yeah, just read the post where it says that. Dang, that sucks. This is a TOUGH spot. I do not envy OP at all. Personally, the only thing I could see making this work is trying to schedule around it so they are their for the practices. I mean 4-6 contributors and your QB's? That BLOWS! Like I said, I would try to schedule around. I mean, I get taking a stand and the hard line about "this is our schedule" but on the other hand, if this kills your team, life is short and a whole season is several months of misery. I value life too much. Personally, I would try to make it work if I could. |
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Post by cfoott on Jul 17, 2013 15:35:37 GMT -6
When the season begins, how do you handle players who miss multiple days of practice during fall camp for another sport or a summer sport? It seems that we may have this problem this fall with 4-6 Possible varsity starters. We're talking up to 5-6 practices during the first two weeks. I would be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks! You've won games before them? So you'll win games without them. If they are not dedicated during the season, then how can you or their teammates trust them during a game? Once the season starts, there is not missing for another sport. Absolutely never. If it's homework, then they aren't taking care of business off the field in order to be on the field. I'd let them know that their are consequences for ever decision they make, both good and bad. They need to figure out what is important to them and make decisions accordingly. That's how life works and isn't that what we're trying to get them ready for? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 17, 2013 15:36:12 GMT -6
s73 he says that it is separate from "our actual highschool baseball team". Yeah, just read the post where it says that. Dang, that sucks. This is a TOUGH spot. I do not envy OP at all. Personally, the only thing I could see making this work is trying to schedule around it so they are their for the practices. I mean 4-6 contributors and your QB's? That BLOWS! Like I said, I would try to schedule around. I mean, I get taking a stand and the hard line about "this is our schedule" but on the other hand, if this kills your team, life is short and a whole season is several months of misery. I value life too much. Personally, I would try to make it work if I could. Yeah, the only problem with that--as I mentioned to fantom--is that the OP says it is a Regional Tournament. Those usually involve travel and teams from 4-6 states. So unless he is lucky enough to be in the host town, the kids are probably out of town. |
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Post by cfoott on Jul 17, 2013 15:40:50 GMT -6
I generally agree with your sentiments, but just to play devils advocate, does basketball season start during your football season? Practice starts here in Louisiana in Mid October, and games start in November. If you go deep in the playoffs, basketball kids are missing a month to a month and a half of "REAL BASKETBALL". And that is something that basketball coaches have had to deal with for a long long time. The proliferation of other sports into a summer that was once "reserved" for football because "it is the next sport" is somewhat recent isn't it? As I said, I wouldn't be against compromising. I don't know the OP's practice schedule but generally teams practice in the morning and Legion games are in the late afternoon. I'd have no problem letting them play in the games after they practice. I'd even cut their conditioning on days of games. I have no problem with working with them if they'll work with me. fanton, you run a slippery slope by compromising with these players and letting them skate through the toughest part of practice, conditioning. Other kids will see the double standard and ask themselves and each other why they have to work harder than these other players. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 17, 2013 15:43:08 GMT -6
As I said, I wouldn't be against compromising. I don't know the OP's practice schedule but generally teams practice in the morning and Legion games are in the late afternoon. I'd have no problem letting them play in the games after they practice. I'd even cut their conditioning on days of games. I have no problem with working with them if they'll work with me. fanton, you run a slippery slope by compromising with these players and letting them skate through the toughest part of practice, conditioning. Other kids will see the double standard and ask themselves and each other why they have to work harder than these other players. Maybe so. You also run a slippery slope losing possibly 6 starters, going 1-9, and getting your a$$ fired. |
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Post by blb on Jul 17, 2013 15:59:57 GMT -6
fanton, you run a slippery slope by compromising with these players and letting them skate through the toughest part of practice, conditioning. Other kids will see the double standard and ask themselves and each other why they have to work harder than these other players. Maybe so. You also run a slippery slope losing possibly 6 starters, going 1-9, and getting your a$$ fired. True. But you must be willing to lose (at least at beginning of program) in order to have commitment and discipline. And if you don't have those things, you'll lose and get fired any way. If you allow kids to miss Pre-Season football practice because they're playing another (non-school) sport - they've made the decision that that is their priority. That's fine. Their choice. But we as coaches have to what is best for our sport and the kids who are committed to it. During Football season, Football must be no lower than #4 priority (after Faith, Family, and School). Otherwise it is impossible to build a Team. If you allow Legion baseball players to miss-come out late, where do you draw the line? How do you explain to other kids and parents that think THEIR reason for missing is just as legitimate? And then how can you possibly prepare to have a competitive team when kids are coming and going while you're trying to play Judge, Cop, or Detective and decide who's excuse is valid and who's telling you the truth or not? |
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Post by fantom on Jul 17, 2013 16:09:30 GMT -6
Maybe so. You also run a slippery slope losing possibly 6 starters, going 1-9, and getting your a$$ fired. True. But you must be willing to lose (at least at beginning of program) in order to have commitment and discipline. And if you don't have those things, you'll lose and get fired any way. Sure. I've said from the beginning of the thread that I'm against letting the kids out of practice. I'd like to see if there's a way out of this situation that doesn't call for losing all of those players. I think that the OP needs to talk to the kids and their parents soonest. |
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Post by cfoott on Jul 17, 2013 16:22:15 GMT -6
fanton, you run a slippery slope by compromising with these players and letting them skate through the toughest part of practice, conditioning. Other kids will see the double standard and ask themselves and each other why they have to work harder than these other players. Maybe so. You also run a slippery slope losing possibly 6 starters, going 1-9, and getting your a$$ fired. If you feel comfortable letting them slide on it then by all means do so. I'm assuming you posted this question on this website looking for insight. So I added some insight to what the other kids on the team may see from this special treatment you may use. If the school you coach at is more worried about the record than teaching young men how to make decisions and the consequences that come with them, then you may be better off at a different school. Personally, I would go with the kids who have committed themselves the through the offseason and intend to commit themselves throughout the regular season. You may lose some games, but you won't lose face. And the younger grades coming up will see and understand that you won't let your players on your team be halfway committed. Good luck this season. I hope everything works out for the best. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 17, 2013 16:26:11 GMT -6
Maybe so. You also run a slippery slope losing possibly 6 starters, going 1-9, and getting your a$$ fired. If you feel comfortable letting them slide on it then by all means do so. I'm assuming you posted this question on this website looking for insight. So I added some insight to what the other kids on the team may see from this special treatment you may use. If the school you coach at is more worried about the record than teaching young men how to make decisions and the consequences that come with them, then you may be better off at a different school. Personally, I would go with the kids who have committed themselves the through the offseason and intend to commit themselves throughout the regular season. You may lose some games, but you won't lose face. And the younger grades coming up will see and understand that you won't let your players on your team be halfway committed. Good luck this season. I hope everything works out for the best. It'll work out fine for me. I'm just discussing stuff on a message board. This situation has nothing to do with me. |
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Post by blb on Jul 17, 2013 16:53:54 GMT -6
If you feel comfortable letting them slide on it then by all means do so. I'm assuming you posted this question on this website looking for insight. So I added some insight to what the other kids on the team may see from this special treatment you may use. If the school you coach at is more worried about the record than teaching young men how to make decisions and the consequences that come with them, then you may be better off at a different school. Personally, I would go with the kids who have committed themselves the through the offseason and intend to commit themselves throughout the regular season. You may lose some games, but you won't lose face. And the younger grades coming up will see and understand that you won't let your players on your team be halfway committed. Good luck this season. I hope everything works out for the best. It'll work out fine for me. I'm just discussing stuff on a message board. This situation has nothing to do with me. fantom, you old so-and-so pot stirrer. |
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Post by s73 on Jul 17, 2013 18:57:31 GMT -6
Maybe so. You also run a slippery slope losing possibly 6 starters, going 1-9, and getting your a$$ fired. If you feel comfortable letting them slide on it then by all means do so. I'm assuming you posted this question on this website looking for insight. So I added some insight to what the other kids on the team may see from this special treatment you may use. If the school you coach at is more worried about the record than teaching young men how to make decisions and the consequences that come with them, then you may be better off at a different school. Personally, I would go with the kids who have committed themselves the through the offseason and intend to commit themselves throughout the regular season. You may lose some games, but you won't lose face. And the younger grades coming up will see and understand that you won't let your players on your team be halfway committed. Good luck this season. I hope everything works out for the best. cfoott, Just curious if you'd be willing to share whether or not you are the head coach. As for the "special treatment" that fantom is handing out, and the domino effect that may have, I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this. I use to believe this also, then I came to the realization that the vast majority of that is just cliche/excuse for many of us to jam FB down HS kids throats. The fact of the matter is many of them can't even remember what they had for breakfast, let alone if you gave a couple of kids some break the year before. In fact, it's more likely that some kids can just as easily accuse you of giving special treatment when you're not. The bottom line is, I don't make judgements on what kids think or might think. I try to make judgements based on what I believe to best. That DOES NOT look the same for all of us. I think the OP needs to do what he feels is best regardless of what anyone else thinks (especially kids). Just my opinion. |
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Post by tigercoach11 on Jul 17, 2013 19:19:38 GMT -6
I think I kinda side with Fantom etc.. on this. I would be willing to work with the kids on practice times vs their game times IF HS BASEBALL WAS NOT OFFERED and this was their only chance to play but if this is just an extension league for summer NO WAY!!!! I am only making one exception this season for the first week of "2-A-Days" and it was brought to my attention by admin before I accepted the job (this is my first year at this school) and I had a conversation with the player and his parents in May when I did accept the job. He had the opportunity to get basic training over with after his Jr year and then go straight to AIT after graduation. He had already signed up for it and he did not know it would push a few days into the season. He is a projected starter and I will work with him on getting caught up. Other than that NOT OPTIONAL...had a kid try and tell me he was going to go to a BBall camp the last 3 days of our first week. I told him it was his choice but camp was not optional if he wanted to play football.
The only thing I really have to battle is the fair is the same week and we have a lot of kids that show animals and have to feed early etc.... I just tell them to wake up earlier or whatever but I do kinda try and work around some of that if our practices run longer than expected bc some of them rely on prize money etc.. for certain things
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Post by cfoott on Jul 17, 2013 22:41:48 GMT -6
If you feel comfortable letting them slide on it then by all means do so. I'm assuming you posted this question on this website looking for insight. So I added some insight to what the other kids on the team may see from this special treatment you may use. If the school you coach at is more worried about the record than teaching young men how to make decisions and the consequences that come with them, then you may be better off at a different school. Personally, I would go with the kids who have committed themselves the through the offseason and intend to commit themselves throughout the regular season. You may lose some games, but you won't lose face. And the younger grades coming up will see and understand that you won't let your players on your team be halfway committed. Good luck this season. I hope everything works out for the best. cfoott, Just curious if you'd be willing to share whether or not you are the head coach. As for the "special treatment" that fantom is handing out, and the domino effect that may have, I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this. I use to believe this also, then I came to the realization that the vast majority of that is just cliche/excuse for many of us to jam FB down HS kids throats. The fact of the matter is many of them can't even remember what they had for breakfast, let alone if you gave a couple of kids some break the year before. In fact, it's more likely that some kids can just as easily accuse you of giving special treatment when you're not. The bottom line is, I don't make judgements on what kids think or might think. I try to make judgements based on what I believe to best. That DOES NOT look the same for all of us. I think the OP needs to do what he feels is best regardless of what anyone else thinks (especially kids). Just my opinion. Agree to disagree. Not the head coach, DC. I have been a head coach in this program previously and had been given the leash to handle situations with my level as I saw fit. We are a small school and have to share athletes at our school. So, when your sport is in session, your expected to be there. If a kid is playing basketball or baseball, our expectation is that he'll be committed to that sport. We believe that this will keep the competitive edge all year long. I think that you're not giving kids enough credit for being smart and picking up a lot we don't think they would. I understand that every situation is different, but if a kid is missing because he wants to go play 'fall ball' for baseball during football season, then I'd tell them to go. Obviously football isn't a high priority on their list and I'd rather reward to kids to are committed. You can't be half committed and be successful. Doesn't work. Especially in football. |
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Post by s73 on Jul 18, 2013 6:02:03 GMT -6
cfoott, Just curious if you'd be willing to share whether or not you are the head coach. As for the "special treatment" that fantom is handing out, and the domino effect that may have, I'm sorry but I have to call BS on this. I use to believe this also, then I came to the realization that the vast majority of that is just cliche/excuse for many of us to jam FB down HS kids throats. The fact of the matter is many of them can't even remember what they had for breakfast, let alone if you gave a couple of kids some break the year before. In fact, it's more likely that some kids can just as easily accuse you of giving special treatment when you're not. The bottom line is, I don't make judgements on what kids think or might think. I try to make judgements based on what I believe to best. That DOES NOT look the same for all of us. I think the OP needs to do what he feels is best regardless of what anyone else thinks (especially kids). Just my opinion. Agree to disagree. Not the head coach, DC. I have been a head coach in this program previously and had been given the leash to handle situations with my level as I saw fit. We are a small school and have to share athletes at our school. So, when your sport is in session, your expected to be there. If a kid is playing basketball or baseball, our expectation is that he'll be committed to that sport. We believe that this will keep the competitive edge all year long. I think that you're not giving kids enough credit for being smart and picking up a lot we don't think they would. I understand that every situation is different, but if a kid is missing because he wants to go play 'fall ball' for baseball during football season, then I'd tell them to go. Obviously football isn't a high priority on their list and I'd rather reward to kids to are committed. You can't be half committed and be successful. Doesn't work. Especially in football. Coach, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You mention I don't give kids enough credit, I kind of see it the other way around. You mentioned that compromising w/ some kids could lead to all these kids being angry/ upset and expecting special treatment, etc. I think most kids are not that petty. But that is my experience. Our school is very diverse socio economically. One kid pulls into the lot w/ a brand new car, another kid works his butt off, but has to miss practice periodically b/c mom is a single parent and can't afford babysitting. I even demoted a captain for multiple lates to practice last year only to get a call from a family friend telling me the kid was up all hours of the night visiting his dying father in hospice. I had no idea. Of course, I reinstated him. I just don't think things are always as clear cut as you'd like to them to be. Back the OP. I don't envy your situation at all. I hope you make the right decision in the long run. Personally, I have not had compromise lead to a domino effect of chaos, hence I lean towards compromise. Of course we all have to draw a line, but where that line is, in my experience is not always so clear and easy to define. Good luck to you. I hope you make the best decision for you & your program. |
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Post by blb on Jul 18, 2013 6:36:28 GMT -6
s73, I don't think we're "jamming HS football down" anyone's throat.
They make the decision and commitment to be part of the Team, or not.
HS Football is different than other sports (Baseball and Basketball specifically) because of its early starting date, for many teams weeks before school starts.
"If you want to be part of our program-Team, here's what you have to do, and also what you can't."
Commitment isn't convenient. But one of big benefits of the sport is kids can learn how to make one and follow through on it, plus the self-discipline, responsibility, and accountability that go along with it. Or in a few cases the consequences of not meeting it.
Good time in their lives to do so, because "real" or adult life isn't convenient, either.
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Post by holmesbend on Jul 18, 2013 6:59:57 GMT -6
This would be during the actual football season. It is a continuation of their summer baseball season and it would be a big regional tournament. This is a tough one, as we talk about finishing what you start, but also you'd be missing many fall camp days and playing in a non- school activity. First of all, if they committed to another team I think they should finish that commitment. I would not expect kids to leave my team early for another sport so I will respect other commitments likewise. Secondly, I used to be a hard liner on this, but I found that conditioning the crap out of them as a make up rather than punishment keeps unnecessary missing to minimum. I may get blasted for this, but I don't think I'm compromising my values all that much, the kids are still receiving a consequence and you can still keep the guys you need. Let's face it , in HS ball we are expected to win nowadays. So my view is to find a way to keep commitments relatively strong while keeping my team competitive and keeping my job security as well. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, but I think compromise has become a necessity especially in smaller schools b/c some kids are stretched thin but we need them. Blast away fellas, but in a smaller school, I think it's what's needed. 110%, whole heartedly agree with everything you said, especially the bolded. It didn't come into play during the actual season last year (he came out two weeks before our 1st game), but we had a kid (by far our best athlete in the school, good student as well and just a great kid in general) who was one of the top 20 basketball players in the state of KY that had told me alllllllll of last summer, "Coach, I'm coming out. I swear. I just have these basketball teams and all-star tourney's up through the 1st week of school that I had committed and/or been selected to play on." So, I had two options: 1) Pretend that I was running some college program & I wasn't ..or... 2) Realize I was the HC of relatively small, extremely rural school here in KY that needed all the help we could get & let this kid play. I chose #2. Now, with that said, this kid was expected to make up conditioning and weight sessions that he had missed, on top of completing what was now expected as being part of the team. He did just that. I was fortunate enough a few years back to coach alongside a legendary HC around these parts who had decided to come out of retirement, and join our staff. One of the first bits of info he gave me about being a head coach was, "You can't have the same approach at every program (specifically speaking about urban/rural, big/small)." (He'd had over 30+ years of coaching at multiples of both) |
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Post by veerman on Jul 18, 2013 10:01:13 GMT -6
BLB, as bad as you might hate to admit it, but football is not 4th on your players list lol there is one more thing that is before football in kids minds, and that is girls lol. As bad as you want to fight it, the P is the undefeated champion of the world lol.
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Post by blb on Jul 18, 2013 10:07:53 GMT -6
BLB, as bad as you might hate to admit it, but football is not 4th on your players list lol there is one more thing that is before football in kids minds, and that is girls lol. As bad as you want to fight it, the P is the undefeated champion of the world lol. Won't argue that, heck it was for me too. But not between 3-5:30 pm week days and until after 9:30 pm Friday nights. However, I tell our kids you only get so many At Bats playing HS Football. There will always be girls. Especially when you get to college. Your HS girl friend is going to marry somebody else, and so will you. |
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Post by s73 on Jul 18, 2013 12:20:24 GMT -6
s73, I don't think we're "jamming HS football down" anyone's throat. They make the decision and commitment to be part of the Team, or not. HS Football is different than other sports (Baseball and Basketball specifically) because of its early starting date, for many teams weeks before school starts. "If you want to be part of our program-Team, here's what you have to do, and also what you can't." Commitment isn't convenient. But one of big benefits of the sport is kids can learn how to make one and follow through on it, plus the self-discipline, responsibility, and accountability that go along with it. Or in a few cases the consequences of not meeting it. Good time in their lives to do so, because "real" or adult life isn't convenient, either. Coach, that's a broad stroke I painted but SOME guys jam FB down kids throats. But not really the point. The point for me from this thread is different strokes for different folks. Some don't want to compromise and some are willing to do so. Every situation/ school is different. I mean, if every inner city coach drew a line in the sand about commitment similar to what some of you are saying, we wouldn't have an inner city school field a team in the entire country. I have worked in this environment before. In order to have enough guys to practice at the start of the season, we coaches drove around 2 trucks driving through neighborhoods picking kids up for practice b/c so many of them had no cars, bikes and it wasn't safe to walk to school. If we weren't willing to do so, no FB team. My philosophy is shaped by my experiences. Mine may be different than others, but guys who've been in these type of situations before probably favor forms of compromise. |
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Post by blb on Jul 18, 2013 14:45:25 GMT -6
s73, I don't think we're "jamming HS football down" anyone's throat. They make the decision and commitment to be part of the Team, or not. HS Football is different than other sports (Baseball and Basketball specifically) because of its early starting date, for many teams weeks before school starts. "If you want to be part of our program-Team, here's what you have to do, and also what you can't." Commitment isn't convenient. But one of big benefits of the sport is kids can learn how to make one and follow through on it, plus the self-discipline, responsibility, and accountability that go along with it. Or in a few cases the consequences of not meeting it. Good time in their lives to do so, because "real" or adult life isn't convenient, either. Coach, that's a broad stroke I painted but SOME guys jam FB down kids throats. But not really the point. The point for me from this thread is different strokes for different folks. Some don't want to compromise and some are willing to do so. Every situation/ school is different. I mean, if every inner city coach drew a line in the sand about commitment similar to what some of you are saying, we wouldn't have an inner city school field a team in the entire country. I have worked in this environment before. In order to have enough guys to practice at the start of the season, we coaches drove around 2 trucks driving through neighborhoods picking kids up for practice b/c so many of them had no cars, bikes and it wasn't safe to walk to school. If we weren't willing to do so, no FB team. My philosophy is shaped by my experiences. Mine may be different than others, but guys who've been in these type of situations before probably favor forms of compromise. You are obviously right if you take on situation such as you describe, and my hat is off to you (seriously). |
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Post by cfoott on Jul 18, 2013 16:02:28 GMT -6
Agree to disagree. Not the head coach, DC. I have been a head coach in this program previously and had been given the leash to handle situations with my level as I saw fit. We are a small school and have to share athletes at our school. So, when your sport is in session, your expected to be there. If a kid is playing basketball or baseball, our expectation is that he'll be committed to that sport. We believe that this will keep the competitive edge all year long. I think that you're not giving kids enough credit for being smart and picking up a lot we don't think they would. I understand that every situation is different, but if a kid is missing because he wants to go play 'fall ball' for baseball during football season, then I'd tell them to go. Obviously football isn't a high priority on their list and I'd rather reward to kids to are committed. You can't be half committed and be successful. Doesn't work. Especially in football. Coach, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You mention I don't give kids enough credit, I kind of see it the other way around. You mentioned that compromising w/ some kids could lead to all these kids being angry/ upset and expecting special treatment, etc. I think most kids are not that petty. But that is my experience. Our school is very diverse socio economically. One kid pulls into the lot w/ a brand new car, another kid works his butt off, but has to miss practice periodically b/c mom is a single parent and can't afford babysitting. I even demoted a captain for multiple lates to practice last year only to get a call from a family friend telling me the kid was up all hours of the night visiting his dying father in hospice. I had no idea. Of course, I reinstated him. I just don't think things are always as clear cut as you'd like to them to be. Back the OP. I don't envy your situation at all. I hope you make the right decision in the long run. Personally, I have not had compromise lead to a domino effect of chaos, hence I lean towards compromise. Of course we all have to draw a line, but where that line is, in my experience is not always so clear and easy to define. Good luck to you. I hope you make the best decision for you & your program. I'm well versed in a diverse socio economical school. Graduated from and coached in a inner city school that had a district encompassing, literally, the right and the wrong side of the tracks. You're absolutely correct, all situations are different and need to be handled differently. My points are; There alternatives to just missing practice and the commitment level needs to be extremely high on the list. Faith, Family, School, Football. I'm teaching kids how to prioritize and problem solve. The kid that has to miss because he needs to baby sit periodically? Let's talk to the mom and make his little brother a coaches assistant on those days. He may be a future football player of yours and he can learn the game at an early age. Better than watching cartoons and they can learn some responsibility at a young age. Bottom line: If it is important to the player, he'll figure out ways to get INTO practice and not just accept that he has to miss. |
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Post by s73 on Jul 18, 2013 16:13:51 GMT -6
Coach, that's a broad stroke I painted but SOME guys jam FB down kids throats. But not really the point. The point for me from this thread is different strokes for different folks. Some don't want to compromise and some are willing to do so. Every situation/ school is different. I mean, if every inner city coach drew a line in the sand about commitment similar to what some of you are saying, we wouldn't have an inner city school field a team in the entire country. I have worked in this environment before. In order to have enough guys to practice at the start of the season, we coaches drove around 2 trucks driving through neighborhoods picking kids up for practice b/c so many of them had no cars, bikes and it wasn't safe to walk to school. If we weren't willing to do so, no FB team. My philosophy is shaped by my experiences. Mine may be different than others, but guys who've been in these type of situations before probably favor forms of compromise. You are obviously right if you take on situation such as you describe, and my hat is off to you (seriously). Coach, appreciate the compliment. I am seriously not worthy though. I was their 1 year. Football was only a small reason for departure, primarily commute was the other and I got my 1st HC gig that Spring. But it was the best thing that ever happened to me to be there for 1 year. It gave me great perspective. Now, my job has it's challenges for sure but I love the school I'm at. With my past experiences I try to remind myself (or my better half does) when things are tough that they could be a lot worse. I guess that's why I find compromise easier than some. Great discussion and good luck this fall. |
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Jul 21, 2013 7:27:16 GMT -6
Thanks for the input guys. This tournament is in a different state and they will have to travel. If they play well at that one, then they have to miss an additional week of practice and (2) football games. To me, it will be difficult to have them on the team. I can't justify allowing them to miss that much time and then come back and be part of the team. I just don't see how we can allow them to miss extended time (10-12 practices and 2 games) for a SUMMER SPORT. Baseball is offered in our school and these guys all play spring baseball.
I am very surprised that so many people would be willing to accept them on the team and keep them involved with missing that much time for a non-school sport. I don't think we ask for much, other than when the season starts you need to be present. I still think that is a reasonable expectation.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 21, 2013 10:26:20 GMT -6
@lilbuck1103
Have they been a part of the team for all this time? Have they been part of the team for multiple years, with this being the first time their Legion team did this well? When do you guys start school? Will they be missing actually classes? (We start school here 2nd week of August) Were they starters last year? Would you project that they would be starters this year?
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Post by jg78 on Jul 21, 2013 11:23:47 GMT -6
When the season begins, how do you handle players who miss multiple days of practice during fall camp for another sport or a summer sport? It seems that we may have this problem this fall with 4-6 Possible varsity starters. We're talking up to 5-6 practices during the first two weeks. I would be interested to hear your thoughts. Thanks! I would be very cautious in approaching this decision. I don't know what kind of depth you have at your school, but I have been at small schools my entire career and it's often that a starter is vastly better than his backup. I have had some players that literally could have been gone all of August and showed up on Friday of the first game and still would have been better than their backup. When your starting TB is a savvy, tough kid who runs a 4.6 40 and his backup is a somewhat timid kid who runs a 5.1, are 5-6 practices going to make the latter player better than the former one? Of course not. Let's be realistic here. Your team is going to be better in just about any scenario that involves the 4.6 kid being on the field. And a large part of our job security is winning games. Now, you have to draw lines somewhere for the sake of fairness, discipline, program stability, teaching kids accountability, and maintaining the respect of your players. All of that is important. Don't get me wrong on any of that. However, I try not to suspend or (especially) dismiss players unless it is just absolutely necessary - and sometimes it is. And it may be in your case. But I look for other punishments when I can. And one question I think you need to ask yourself is, what are these kids like otherwise? Are they good, dependable kids who work hard? Or do they slack? I think that should factor into your decision, and you're the only one who knows those things. Yeah, but how much fun are you going to have if you're out there getting your a$$ kicked because those kids are in the stands? That sounds like a lose-lose situation for everyone. |
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Jul 21, 2013 18:54:37 GMT -6
They were not starters last year, but will be competing to start this year. I have taken over a big school that has traditionally not been very good at all in football for many of these reasons. Kids missing practice for other sports, choosing not come, etc, etc. They are not going to miss any actual school classes.
I just get worried about the slippery slope we get if we allow it to happen.
What if a kid wants to miss to hang out with his best friend? in his mind, it is every bit as important as legion baseball. How do you tell that young man that he CANNOT do that if you allow a summer sport to interrupt an actual school sport?
This truly is a lose-lose for our program. If you allow them to come back after what amounts to 8-10 unexcused practices (missing practice for another sport, especially a summer league is considered unexcused) you set a REALLY BAD SLIPPERY SLOPE. If we move on without them, we end up losing 5-6 of our better players.
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Post by fantom on Jul 21, 2013 19:03:32 GMT -6
They were not starters last year, but will be competing to start this year. I have taken over a big school that has traditionally not been very good at all in football for many of these reasons. Kids missing practice for other sports, choosing not come, etc, etc. They are not going to miss any actual school classes. I just get worried about the slippery slope we get if we allow it to happen. What if a kid wants to miss to hang out with his best friend? in his mind, it is every bit as important as legion baseball. How do you tell that young man that he CANNOT do that if you allow a summer sport to interrupt an actual school sport? This truly is a lose-lose for our program. If you allow them to come back after what amounts to 8-10 unexcused practices (missing practice for another sport, especially a summer league is considered unexcused) you set a REALLY BAD SLIPPERY SLOPE. If we move on without them, we end up losing 5-6 of our better players. You're right. There's no compromise possible here. |
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Post by CoachHess on Jul 21, 2013 20:59:22 GMT -6
This summer baseball is legion, not school ball. This is a tough one for me, because if they play well, then the following week they would have another one which would result in additional 2-4 practices missed on game week. The hard part for me is then where does it stop? What if a bball kid then wants to go to a camp at some time. These kids would ALL be contributors though for us and we are a school of 1000 students but 2 are our QB's. For those of you who are against this, let me put you in this scenario: 5 yrs ago I was coaching in NC. We had a boy who was playing in the AFLAC All-American games, one at Dodger Stadium and the other at Wrigley. He was going to miss the first week of practice. According to some of you, he should be kicked off for missing 3 practices right? We as coaches were going to punish him for being an excellent athlete? No way. Too much today of specializing and wanting the kids to ourselves. Let them play everything, and if something overlaps a few days or something, so be it. The odds of us on here winning a state championship are miniscule. Let them enjoy being kids and playing sorts year round. I get it that when the state says it starts, its mandatory. But in certain cases, you gotta be reasonable. |
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