Funny statistic...

There was a discussion about this not too long ago here, involving the military academies, turnovers, and discipline. 

Nope.

sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byteam?group=Offense&cat=Total&conference=NFL&year=postseason_2012&sort=506&timeframe=

This isn't really news, though. Year year and year out there's pretty much no correlation between penalties and wins in the NFL. 

They did go from a 70.4 avg per game in reg season to 51.5 in playoffs. That is a signficant drop.

But I do agree that penalties don't really correlate well.

There's a difference between dumb penalties and playing hard penalties.

we keep a "stat" (goal, but I guess it's a stat) that is "no drives stopped by a penalty". meaning, if we are 'on schedule' then get a penalty and are forced to punt without getting another first down. i.e. if we get a holding penalty on 2nd down, then don't gain a 1st on the next 2 snaps we lose that goal. however, if we get a first down on the next play the goal is still "alive" even if we don't score on that drive (unless, of course, we get another penalty and don't get a first down after that penalty)

now, we don't keep track of it per se - I can't tell you right now how many games we achieved this goal. The only year I remember 100% for sure was 2009 for us. We played 14 games and got that goal 13 times - the only time we didn't get that goal was in a blowout win .it was the only goal we didn't achieve that game, & only time we didn't score that game, so it stands out.

i know this is about giving the kids concrete examples - and i wouldn't use anything nfl as that really is a different game than what you and i coach - but the best examples will come from direct experiences. look at games you "should've" won and find something to point out as why you lost. Do the same with games you "shouldn't" have won and find the same thing in reverse to point out why you won (or why the opponent lost)

bottom line though, is about getting stops and getting points on your drives. we always talk about getting points on 65% of our drives and not allowing the opponent to start any of their drives within 65 yards of the goalline. it is our "65" rule.

If we can get points on 65% of our drives & not give the opponent short fields we have a chance. these are tangible things moreso than "no penalties". so, we don't harp on not making penalties as much as we harp on making first downs, doing the right things to help us get to 65% or get the ball across midfield (or near midfield) so we can punt/pin our opponent on their own end.

we want them thinking in terms of making a play rather than not making a penalty. also, if you condition to focus on a more 'positive' goal or aspect (we need to make a first down here) they may be more apt to overcome that false start penalty or holding penalty. i mean, if you commit 2 penalties on a drive but STILL score - while not necessarily good that you had penalties - you did keep battling and create a positive situation. we create our goals, stats, mindset to that end - the bottom line.

i'm rambling - mainly because i'm not in the 'writing' mode this late in the summer - and not making much sense. but all i'm trying to say is try to get more tangible things kids can see. make your objectives more closely match the bottom line of the game.

while we don't like turnovers, if we can keep with the rule of 65 we may be ok. let's say we each get 10 possessions in our 1st game. if you punt 3 times from your own 25 and once from the 50 then your opponent is probably starting less than 65 yds away 2 or 3 times. you score 5 times, go for it on 4th at their 30 once & fail, but never turn it over. at most that's 35 pts for you (assume all TD's of course). You've also given your opponent a 'shorter' field on 3 of their possessions.

let's say in our 1st game our offensive output is similar - we score 5 times, go for it at their 30 & don't get it. however, we NEVER punt but turn it over 4 times - all inside their 35 yd line.

which team is setting up their defense the best?

now, the turnovers are costly, of course because we had the ball down there and didn't get it done. but, it could still be salvaged because we aren't giving them a short field to work with. these turnovers get magnified because it isn't a punt, it appears we were well on our way to scoring - even though we could have had 4 INT's on 3rd & 10 & the interception was as good as a punt. however, the statistician is looking at the turnovers NOT the overall amount of times we scored, the percentage of scoring drives, nor the starting field position of the opponent.

when you look at these 2 scenarios, which one really is the "better" one?

idk, like i said, i'm rambling ... but, we really do start our focus on % of drives on which we score. then look at objectives to keep the chains moving or the objectives needed to keep the opponent from scoring.

I think that Penalties stats are like a lot of other stats: just looking at the raw numbers doesn't do you a lot of good. A good, aggressive defense is going to commit some penalties. Quick DL ARE going to jump offsides sometimes. Playmaking DBs WILL get flagged for interference. You ARE going to have an occasional bang-bang late hit. Not saying that you should coach dirty play or that kids do these things intentionally but these things happen.

The timing of defensive penalties is what's important. "Drive Extenders" (or, more negatively, "Deflaters") are the penalties that hurt: the DL that jumps offsides on 4th and 3; the egregious late hit; roughing the passer on 3rd and 12; roughing the kicker after a missed low-percentage FG attempt.

I'd love to see a study of that: What percentage of times does an offense score after their drive has been extended by a foolish (or controversial) penalty? I'll bet the number is pretty high.