kr1175
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Posts: 12
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 25, 2013 20:45:41 GMT -6
Hi coaches,
I am an inspiring coach but I am going into the 6-man game. I grew up in a 6-man town an understand it pretty well. Unfortunately my school barely had a weight room and our training was nothing compared to the bigger schools. They never taught us correct lifting form or technique in the weightroom and regardless to say I don't want to be like that.
Anyways, I always hear the differences between the big schools over small schools is that the big schools teach/coach better. They work on the "little details."
I was wondering if someone could elaborate on what they mean by the "little details." Do they mean on technique, form, footwork, specific drills, etc. There are good coaches and unfortunately some pretty bad ones (in the 6-man level that I know) and when I start I would like to teach them everything I can so that they have a better chance at succeeding and improving as a player/team.
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Post by Coach Vint on Jun 25, 2013 20:57:57 GMT -6
It's all about the details, and emphasizing the little things are vital to success. Great coaching points: Eyes up, lock in the lower back, spread the chest. On parallel squat makr sure your guys understand the definition of parallel (top of thigh parallel to floor) and emphasize they get there. If they don't, the rep doesn't count. Heels must be on the floor, knees over the toes. Coach these details everyday.
The weight room is when you establish the importance of the details. School size is irrelevant, any coach can emphasize the little things.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 23:11:16 GMT -6
One of the easiest "little details" I use is, during our warmups, I require every person in line to place their right big toe on the starting line. I will not start the group until everyone has done so. The first few times it is downright painful, but a quick Ray Lewis quote; "Greatness is a bunch of little things stacked up on top of each other.", and everyone has bought in and does it autonomously.
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kr1175
Probationary Member
Posts: 12
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 26, 2013 18:16:59 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses so far. I may need to be more specific on what I am trying to ask. I have learned everything I can about correct lifting technique and nutrition.
And again I was not saying that all small schools have bad coaching. I can name a bunch of great programs at the 1A and 2A level in Texas on the top of my head.
To be clearer of what I am trying to ask is what are the advantages of playing at a big 5A prestigious program and how they teach/coach compared to the smaller classifications. And how could I apply what they do at the higher classifications to a 6-man program or a smaller 11-man classification.
I always hear from some coaches that the difference is paying attention to the little details. So what are these little details exactly? That is what I am trying to figure out.
My goal is to have quality training/teaching/and coaching for these kids in 6-man. I feel like they get the crap end of the stick when it comes to everything about learning football.
Thanks again for your help,
KR
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 26, 2013 18:32:54 GMT -6
the little details= talent
har har har
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Post by fantom on Jun 26, 2013 20:18:29 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses so far. I may need to be more specific on what I am trying to ask. I have learned everything I can about correct lifting technique and nutrition. And again I was not saying that all small schools have bad coaching. I can name a bunch of great programs at the 1A and 2A level in Texas on the top of my head. To be clearer of what I am trying to ask is what are the advantages of playing at a big 5A prestigious program and how they teach/coach compared to the smaller classifications. And how could I apply what they do at the higher classifications to a 6-man program or a smaller 11-man classification. I always hear from some coaches that the difference is paying attention to the little details. So what are these little details exactly? That is what I am trying to figure out. My goal is to have quality training/teaching/and coaching for these kids in 6-man. I feel like they get the crap end of the stick when it comes to everything about learning football. Thanks again for your help, KR This question is impossible to answer because it's too broad. Each position, each play, each situation has it's own little details. |
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Post by CoachHess on Jun 26, 2013 20:32:47 GMT -6
Ever been bitten by an elephant? Obviously no. Ever been bitten by a mosquito? Unless you live in an Artic region, probably yes. It's the little things in life that come back to bite you.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 27, 2013 6:23:50 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses so far. I may need to be more specific on what I am trying to ask. I have learned everything I can about correct lifting technique and nutrition. And again I was not saying that all small schools have bad coaching. I can name a bunch of great programs at the 1A and 2A level in Texas on the top of my head. To be clearer of what I am trying to ask is what are the advantages of playing at a big 5A prestigious program and how they teach/coach compared to the smaller classifications. And how could I apply what they do at the higher classifications to a 6-man program or a smaller 11-man classification. I always hear from some coaches that the difference is paying attention to the little details. So what are these little details exactly? That is what I am trying to figure out. My goal is to have quality training/teaching/and coaching for these kids in 6-man. I feel like they get the crap end of the stick when it comes to everything about learning football. Thanks again for your help, KR I think what you are describing here is just quality coaching. The fact in your minds the "big schools" have quality training/teaching and coaching and 6-man teams do not is going to be a function of WHO is working at those schools. It is a VERY broad question, as others have mentioned here. However, ONE of the keys to doing the little things, is actually having to research and come up with answers yourself, as opposed to just following others words. I think if you follow this little tidbit, it will put you on the right track though: The "WHY" and the "HOW" of doing something (anything, from warm ups, scheme, work outs, playing technique, installation, practice format, etc" is much more important than the WHAT. |
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Post by Scott Bronkema on Jun 27, 2013 7:16:49 GMT -6
Here is an example of differences. I coached at a college that has 4 full time coaches and a buddy and I were part timers who worked full time and a few volunteers/part timers. Grand Valley only a step up at Division II has 10 full time people. I was 3 of those guys at Division III (video, ops, and coach). I coached HS last year we had a QB, RB, 2 WR, OL, DL, OSLB, LB, DB coaches 1 for every position. This is all to a point bigger schools usually have more resources! You need to find special people that can do many jobs and do them well. Efficiently planning every move by giving quality job descriptions and trying not to add things week by week make it very uniform, a program. I hope that helps.
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Post by brophy on Jun 27, 2013 7:19:20 GMT -6
the "details" here are ultimately defined as CONTROL. The truly successful programs are consistent because the HC has control over those details, and that essentially, is the job. The less control you have over your program / kids, the less you can enforce. Now, obviously, the program has to make these details a priority and provide quality instruction, but the best intentions can be railroaded by undermining forces (parents, admins, teachers, kids, boosters, etc).
Coaching is about control.
You have the oline...how are you going to control the quality of that output? Are you going to enforce proper technique, proper footwork, hand placement on each rep or not?
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kr1175
Probationary Member
Posts: 12
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 27, 2013 10:45:06 GMT -6
Again I really appreciate all of the solid input. And I apologize because it is a VERY broad question. However, in the 6-man game you usually only have around 12-20 players maximum so you are dealing with less than what you would be at a higher classification.
Basically I just want to do the best job I can at preparing these individuals for not only future success on the field but also off of it. And there has been a huge problem with athletes from 6-man going and playing at the college level. The reason usually has to do with the unfamiliarity of the 11-man game, but I constantly here that players from 6-man are behind on literally everything as far as technique, weight training, etc.
I personally want to give them a program that can be somewhat comparable with the big school programs. I agree with brophy as it ultimately comes down to control of your team.
As far as complexity, in 6-man you have kids who play multiple positions regardless of offense and defense. It really isn't tough with organizing things because of the few players you have, but the quality of coaching and fundamentals when I was in school and still to this day are pretty bad. I want to change that.
Thanks again to everyone who chimed in, I really appreciate it!
KR
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 27, 2013 10:55:30 GMT -6
To me, the 'little details' as you've phrased it come down to experience, thoroughness, and concision. Concise coaching will help players immediately understand what you want/expect, thorough preparation and planning makes for no surprises, and experience helps you know what you need to prepare for and what ways will/will not be useful.
Find someone who does an excellent job coaching the 'little things' and you'll usually find those attributes.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 27, 2013 13:42:14 GMT -6
Basically I just want to do the best job I can at preparing these individuals for not only future success on the field but also off of it. And there has been a huge problem with athletes from 6-man going and playing at the college level. The reason usually has to do with the unfamiliarity of the 11-man game, but I constantly here that players from 6-man are behind on literally everything as far as technique, weight training, etc. Probably a resource problem and experience problem, as I am betting most 6 man athletes are playing other sports year round, and the schools themselves don't have a quality weight room. Well, just better yourself as a coach, and that will change. Question: If Nick Saban, or Paul Johnson or ___________ (Insert name of your favorite coach here) were forced to coach a 6-man team in your state, HOW would they do it? |
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Post by fantom on Jun 27, 2013 13:47:15 GMT -6
Again I really appreciate all of the solid input. And I apologize because it is a VERY broad question. However, in the 6-man game you usually only have around 12-20 players maximum so you are dealing with less than what you would be at a higher classification. Basically I just want to do the best job I can at preparing these individuals for not only future success on the field but also off of it. And there has been a huge problem with athletes from 6-man going and playing at the college level. The reason usually has to do with the unfamiliarity of the 11-man game, but I constantly here that players from 6-man are behind on literally everything as far as technique, weight training, etc. I personally want to give them a program that can be somewhat comparable with the big school programs. I agree with brophy as it ultimately comes down to control of your team. As far as complexity, in 6-man you have kids who play multiple positions regardless of offense and defense. It really isn't tough with organizing things because of the few players you have, but the quality of coaching and fundamentals when I was in school and still to this day are pretty bad. I want to change that. Thanks again to everyone who chimed in, I really appreciate it! KR How many coaches do you have on your staff? |
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kr1175
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 27, 2013 13:57:08 GMT -6
It is most definitely a resource problem and yes ALOT of the athletes usually play different sports all year round. That definitely contributes to the problem. In a way it also helps. Basketball helps with their agility and jumping but eats away at their muscle mass.
Back to the subject, what could I do as far as the resource problem goes. I read books all of the time about how to do this, how to do that, etc. But I feel like I'm not getting as much info "aka little details," that I'm looking for.
To answer the other question, Nick Saban would probably run a basic I-formation lol. My favorite coaches are June Jones, Leach, Holgorsen, Kingsbury, and I am definitely trying to take what they do on the 11-man field and apply it to the 6-man game. That's just my plan if I have the athletes to do it. Unfortunately you never know what kind of athletes you're gonna get in 6-man.
Thanks again everyone,
KR
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kr1175
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 27, 2013 13:58:54 GMT -6
Staff is 2 to 3 depending on circumstances and some of them are volunteer. Needless to say some of them don't have a clue what they're doing.
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Post by Scott Bronkema on Jun 27, 2013 14:05:47 GMT -6
one little detail is you said you were an aspiring coach and are going into 6 man football. Isn't that still coaching? Lombardi said to a secretary over hearing a conversation..."when answering the phone answer Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers..." My point is you are coaching 6 man 8 man 11 man football it is still coaching, don't down play as anything less.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 27, 2013 14:05:49 GMT -6
To answer the other question, Nick Saban would probably run a basic I-formation lol. My favorite coaches are June Jones, Leach, Holgorsen, Kingsbury, and I am definitely trying to take what they do on the 11-man field and apply it to the 6-man game. That's just my plan if I have the athletes to do it. Unfortunately you never know what kind of athletes you're gonna get in 6-man. Thanks again everyone, KR Not exactly what I was asking coach... to repeat myself Now, the fact that you answered the question that way--you should examine that, and compare that to the quote above. When your first thought is "scheme", you aren't thinking about little details. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 27, 2013 14:07:16 GMT -6
Staff is 2 to 3 depending on circumstances and some of them are volunteer. Needless to say some of them don't have a clue what they're doing. So THAT is something YOU can work on. You can create position manuals that detail what you want coached, AND DRILL manuals to show how you will coach it. |
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Post by fantom on Jun 27, 2013 14:09:50 GMT -6
Staff is 2 to 3 depending on circumstances and some of them are volunteer. Needless to say some of them don't have a clue what they're doing. That's what I thought. One reason that bigger schools can coach in more detail is because they have larger staffs which allows them to be more specialized. That trend continues up the football food chain. College coaches can coach in greater detail than HS coaches because they don't teach classes (or have an outside job). NFL coaches can coach in even greater detail because they don't have to recruit and there's no limit on how many coaches they can have. With a limited staff it's hard to keep eyes on everything that happens in practice. That's why I think it's really important for you to film practice. |
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kr1175
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 27, 2013 14:13:56 GMT -6
I misinterpreted what you were asking I guess. My apologies. I honestly thought you were asking about schemes and what not.
Thank you for the clarification, I understand what you are saying now. Really good stuff btw
To the other poster, I am not downplaying 6-man or any other type of football. I love the game of 6-man, grew up in a 6-man town, played it, and now I want to coach it but improve on things that I know are lacking. I know "football is football" but the quality is completely lacking compared to the bigger programs. -thank you for your input as well
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kr1175
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Posts: 12
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 27, 2013 14:15:56 GMT -6
Fantom - I think that's a great idea. I will definitely do that
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kr1175
Probationary Member
Posts: 12
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 27, 2013 14:17:02 GMT -6
CoachD - I appreciate you're advice. Sounds like a great place to start.
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Post by paulfrantz on Jun 27, 2013 14:25:46 GMT -6
I coach 8 man and we are big on technique and less on scheme. We are a small staff and the kids are usually far behind where they should be. over the past 4 years we have been able to increase our scheme as their technique came along. For me the biggest difference in 8 and 11 man is what they can run scheme wise. It doesn't change how we teach alignment, stance, first step, fit, how to block, how to beat a block, man technique vs zone technique (yes we run a C2 8 man version). We will probably never have a D1 player, but we have D2, DIII, NAIA schools that look at us. Most high school players won't be in a scheme they ran in high school any way. And even if they are, my kids will have to learn that scheme, but they will be tecnically sound.
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Post by fantom on Jun 27, 2013 14:34:34 GMT -6
I coach 8 man and we are big on technique and less on scheme. We are a small staff and the kids are usually far behind where they should be. over the past 4 years we have been able to increase our scheme as their technique came along. For me the biggest difference in 8 and 11 man is what they can run scheme wise. It doesn't change how we teach alignment, stance, first step, fit, how to block, how to beat a block, man technique vs zone technique (yes we run a C2 8 man version). We will probably never have a D1 player, but we have D2, DIII, NAIA schools that look at us. Most high school players won't be in a scheme they ran in high school any way. And even if they are, my kids will have to learn that scheme, but they will be tecnically sound. College coaches who I know consistently complain about two things about incoming freshmen: lack of fundamentals, and inability to practice hard and take hard coaching. |
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Post by paulfrantz on Jun 27, 2013 14:42:41 GMT -6
I have those same complaints coach. LOL
8 man is an offensive game. One mistake defensively is probably not a first down, or a 20 yard gain. It's a TD, so we try to hammer fundamentals into them. I learned at a young age, I can win simple and sound.
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kr1175
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 27, 2013 14:57:51 GMT -6
I have those same complaints coach. LOL 8 man is an offensive game. One mistake defensively is probably not a first down, or a 20 yard gain. It's a TD, so we try to hammer fundamentals into them. I learned at a young age, I can win simple and sound. Finally figured out quoting man do I feel dumb haha. It is the exact same way in 6-man. One mistake is a guarantee TD for the other team. Open field tackling is huge for both divisions. Thanks for the advice! KR |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 27, 2013 15:30:28 GMT -6
I have those same complaints coach. LOL 8 man is an offensive game. One mistake defensively is probably not a first down, or a 20 yard gain. It's a TD, so we try to hammer fundamentals into them. I learned at a young age, I can win simple and sound. Finally figured out quoting man do I feel dumb haha. It is the exact same way in 6-man. One mistake is a guarantee TD for the other team. Open field tackling is huge for both divisions. Thanks for the advice! KR Then-- a "little detail" would be to research, teach, and drill open field tackling daily. See how this is working? |
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kr1175
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Post by kr1175 on Jun 27, 2013 15:53:02 GMT -6
Finally figured out quoting man do I feel dumb haha. It is the exact same way in 6-man. One mistake is a guarantee TD for the other team. Open field tackling is huge for both divisions. Thanks for the advice! KR Then-- a "little detail" would be to research, teach, and drill open field tackling daily. See how this is working? Gotcha |
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