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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 8:18:20 GMT -6
How many coaches create their depth chart in January based on what is coming back, then again after spring ball evals, then again after you see the frosh coming and then again after you start fall ball?
Then with your freshman how many project kids? in 4 years this is where we think this kid will be, all things being equal, and do it every year the kid is in the program up to his senior?
Then how many of you define kids roles down to what calls you want to call when they are in the game, and maybe more importantly what calls you want to stay out of?
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 19, 2013 8:20:50 GMT -6
I was with you for most of that. I do depth chart sketches constantly. I do not concern myself much with what calls I make though. I expect all of my guys to handle it all. Obviously if we are talking about a larger school with personnel packages that would change.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 8:25:22 GMT -6
coach for me, us, we are constantly calling things with kid who simply cannot athletically, maturity wise and in rare cases mentally, that the call demands. EX. we put guards in the game who simply cant pull and do what is asked. we put wrs in and have them run a 9 and they cannot run.
does that make sense?
Same thing on defense. We have corners playing cover 2 who cannot tackle. a free safety who has no range playing cover 1.
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Post by coach2013 on Jun 19, 2013 8:31:12 GMT -6
I think I tend to design my installation plans around my first and second unit guys, after that, we dont sweat it too much.
As far as linemen that "cant" pull, we will run them until they can, otherwise they cant play for us.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 8:36:37 GMT -6
I want to put kids in position to succeed.
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 19, 2013 8:54:10 GMT -6
I have never written a depth chart in my life.
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 19, 2013 9:03:14 GMT -6
I have never written a depth chart in my life. My somewhat snarkiness aside, what are you asking? What is the point of making this depth chart? It sounds more like you don't know your kids abilities. How is ranking them going to help you call plays? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2013 9:16:05 GMT -6
I have never written a depth chart in my life. My somewhat snarkiness aside, what are you asking? What is the point of making this depth chart? It sounds more like you don't know your kids abilities. How is ranking them going to help you call plays? the point actually has several points. the first is to put a kid in a position he can hopefully for 4 years. The second is to help all coaches coach and create drills that will suit this players abilities.3rd is help us coaches limit the amount of chances the kid has to fail, more importantly the chances the kid has to succeed. Our problem is not that we don't know players abilities, but that we knowingly put kids in a position where they cant succeed. Not intentionally of course, but as we get further and further into the depth chart that happens more than I would like to admit. |
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Post by fantom on Jun 19, 2013 9:32:05 GMT -6
My somewhat snarkiness aside, what are you asking? What is the point of making this depth chart? It sounds more like you don't know your kids abilities. How is ranking them going to help you call plays? the point actually has several points. the first is to put a kid in a position he can hopefully for 4 years. The second is to help all coaches coach and create drills that will suit this players abilities.3rd is help us coaches limit the amount of chances the kid has to fail, more importantly the chances the kid has to succeed. Our problem is not that we don't know players abilities, but that we knowingly put kids in a position where they cant succeed. Not intentionally of course, but as we get further and further into the depth chart that happens more than I would like to admit. Well, there's a reason that they're further down on the depth chart. Unfortunately, for some kids if you don't want them to fail their best position is behind you on the sidelines. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 19, 2013 12:06:02 GMT -6
the point actually has several points. the first is to put a kid in a position he can hopefully for 4 years. The second is to help all coaches coach and create drills that will suit this players abilities.3rd is help us coaches limit the amount of chances the kid has to fail, more importantly the chances the kid has to succeed. Our problem is not that we don't know players abilities, but that we knowingly put kids in a position where they cant succeed. Not intentionally of course, but as we get further and further into the depth chart that happens more than I would like to admit. So, you tailor make each drill to the kids' abilities to help them "succeed" rather than having drills that fit your program and system and just saying this is how we do it you either can do it or you can't? If I have a kid I know can't pull, he still does pulling drills, but I may play him at tackle where we don't pull as much. Will he suck at the pulling drills? Probably, but he'll also get better by doing them. If you never allow kids to fail over 4 years, how the heck do you expect them to develop as players? If you've got a freshmen linemen that is a total lump of blubber, do you not put him in drills you know he'll fail at? How is that kid going to have gotten better 4 years from then if he's never failed? |
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Post by fantom on Jun 19, 2013 12:17:27 GMT -6
the point actually has several points. the first is to put a kid in a position he can hopefully for 4 years. The second is to help all coaches coach and create drills that will suit this players abilities.3rd is help us coaches limit the amount of chances the kid has to fail, more importantly the chances the kid has to succeed. Our problem is not that we don't know players abilities, but that we knowingly put kids in a position where they cant succeed. Not intentionally of course, but as we get further and further into the depth chart that happens more than I would like to admit. So, you tailor make each drill to the kids' abilities to help them "succeed" rather than having drills that fit your program and system and just saying this is how we do it you either can do it or you can't? If I have a kid I know can't pull, he still does pulling drills, but I may play him at tackle where we don't pull as much. Will he suck at the pulling drills? Probably, but he'll also get better by doing them. If you never allow kids to fail over 4 years, how the heck do you expect them to develop as players? If you've got a freshmen linemen that is a total lump of blubber, do you not put him in drills you know he'll fail at? How is that kid going to have gotten better 4 years from then if he's never failed? I've coached OL for many years and have rarely seen a guard who's good enough at other necessary skills but is just too slow to pull. It does not require Olympic level athleticism. It's just a question of technique. Then you have to run maybe 10 yards. As for drills, what would be the point of only drilling skills that a kid is already good at? |
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 19, 2013 12:22:11 GMT -6
I've coached OL for many years and have rarely seen a guard who's good enough at other necessary skills but is just too slow to pull. It does not require Olympic level athleticism. It's just a question of technique. Then you have to run maybe 10 yards. As for drills, what would be the point of only drilling skills that a kid is already good at? Agreed. I was just using the pulling thing as an example since the OP did. 10 yds? You ask you guards to pull WAY further than we ever do. |
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Post by fantom on Jun 19, 2013 12:27:13 GMT -6
I've coached OL for many years and have rarely seen a guard who's good enough at other necessary skills but is just too slow to pull. It does not require Olympic level athleticism. It's just a question of technique. Then you have to run maybe 10 yards. As for drills, what would be the point of only drilling skills that a kid is already good at? Agreed. I was just using the pulling thing as an example since the OP did. 10 yds? You ask you guards to pull WAY further than we ever do. I said, "Maybe". Talking about the depth chart, though, I have to mention the OP's other example-the FS with no range. That one's simple- he doesn't play FS anymore. We move him to a different position. If there isn't anybody better the answer is also simple (but unpleasant)- take your a$$whipping like a man. |
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Post by macdiiddy on Jun 19, 2013 15:57:00 GMT -6
We have informal depth charts during the offseason. Just shooting the breeze with the other coaches. This is mainly done for the purpose of seeing where kids could get moved around. (Like a LB who would be in a better position to start on the DL). But there is no real weight taken in these talks.
Then, on the first day of 2-a-days we have our complete depth chart hanging in the locker room. Day 1 its arranged by seniority. Then after the day is over we move and adjust the kids up and down the depth chart based on performance in practice. The idea is to reward those who are making progress, even if its our 4th nose guard moving up to number 2. Also in doing so, it creates competition.
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Post by wingtol on Jun 19, 2013 19:58:04 GMT -6
coach for me, us, we are constantly calling things with kid who simply cannot athletically, maturity wise and in rare cases mentally, that the call demands. EX. we put guards in the game who simply cant pull and do what is asked. we put wrs in and have them run a 9 and they cannot run. does that make sense? Same thing on defense. We have corners playing cover 2 who cannot tackle. a free safety who has no range playing cover 1. Sounds like you have some real problems on your staff that a depth chart isn't going to fix. Sounds like you as a staff have no feel for what your kids can do. If you know a kid can't run, don't put him in when you throw deep. If a kid can't pull then don't play him at guard. Sounds like your trying to pound square pegs into round holes. Do you sub guys that often that you have no idea who is on the field? Your OC or DC should be better at knowing personnel and what they have to work with. |
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mc140
Sophomore Member
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Post by mc140 on Jun 20, 2013 0:10:11 GMT -6
I don't think you can accurately project the majority of freshman. Way too many variables in what can happen from Freshman to Junior year.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 20, 2013 11:03:19 GMT -6
One year we had a junior nose guard. He was first team all league. The next year he wanted to play corner. What? Guess what happened. He was first team all league there. Not joking. What is the point? I enjoy depth charts. I think they help. But it doesn't mean they are set in stone. They might change daily. *Actually...he's #5 in my avatar. That was his senior season. He returned kicks for us! Ever have a nose guard return kicks?  |
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Post by mattharris75 on Jun 20, 2013 11:10:48 GMT -6
*Actually...he's #5 in my avatar. That was his senior season. He returned kicks for us! Ever have a nose guard return kicks? Yes, actually. 6'2", 260 lbs. He was a great kick returner, nobody wanted to tackle him. We also lined him up as a slot receiver Had the best hands of any kid we've ever had. He had over 100 tackles at NT his senior year. Of course he went on to be a 4 year starter and all-conference as a 1st baseman at a D2 school and set a number of school and conference records. Athletes are athletes. |
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 20, 2013 12:06:00 GMT -6
Truth. This kid was 5'6" 170 wrastler. We told him..."you're a nose guard" when he came to DB his senior year. He refused to be a NG...and just battled for the cornerback spot. Just a stud. And his brother (also pictured in avatar) was a D1 FS at Utah State.
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 20, 2013 12:19:37 GMT -6
One year we had a junior nose guard. He was first team all league. The next year he wanted to play corner. What? Guess what happened. He was first team all league there. Not joking. What is the point? I enjoy depth charts. I think they help. But it doesn't mean they are set in stone. They might change daily. *Actually...he's #5 in my avatar. That was his senior season. He returned kicks for us! Ever have a nose guard return kicks? The best NT I've ever coached was 5'6 125 lbs. Got second in state his senior year at 119. Had never played football before his senior year. Ended up honorable mention all state. Kid was a BEAST. Just no quit in him. Once got cut, did a forward roll over the center and then bear crawled 7 yards to make the sack. Bad asses come in all shapes and sizes. |
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 20, 2013 12:50:39 GMT -6
Truth. This kid was 5'6" 170 wrastler. We told him..."you're a nose guard" when he came to DB his senior year. He refused to be a NG...and just battled for the cornerback spot. Just a stud. And his brother (also pictured in avatar) was a D1 FS at Utah State. To be fair, that's almost too big for the way you guys run things  As far as depth charts, for me it's more of a 'priority queue' than a formal document. If Timmy rolls his ankle, who's up next? If Timmy rolls his ankle and Jimmy is winded from landing on a fumble wrong, who's up next? If Timmy rolls his ankle again and it's 3rd and short, who's up next? I've been in situations where my best replacement at almost every position was the same kid, so then I've got to start thinking about what is a priority and where. A depth chart as it typically exists doesn't really help much with that, imo. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jun 20, 2013 20:25:38 GMT -6
So far as sorting the depth charts:
January is for sorting out what is leaving and what you have left over.
Spring ball is for determining who can do and who can't do what you thought they could do.
Fall is for determining who WIIL be able to do what you need them to do.
The overall process never stops. That freshman who isn't quite there in August will be a different player come October. Hades sometimes that senior will be different come October. Depth charts are what keeps players and coaches on their toes. Always try to coach the second teamer to beat out the starter.
So far as drills, they should always be set up to hone what you need to be occomplished to win, not for a kid to feel better about themselves. Should you try to do thing that make a kid feel 'successful'? Yes, but do it within the schema of your program.
So far as kids that can't do, see the previous.
So far as the lack of the ability of coaches to evaluate talent, that needs to worked on back in January when you are starting the process.
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