|
|
Post by cqmiller on May 30, 2013 13:39:38 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 30, 2013 13:51:12 GMT -6
I'd be interested in seeing them show how getting cut from the track team cost the family millions of dollars. This isn't the first time I've seen a story like this. As far as I know they never go anywhere. Hey, what can I tell you? It's a tough business.
|
|
|
|
Post by holmesbend on May 30, 2013 15:25:46 GMT -6
This is one of many reasons as to why I'm learning each and every day to relax a little more and not take this job (and, ourselves) too seriously. It's like my grandpa who coached 33 years in the State of KY, winning 5 State Titles in that time has told me over and over....."There are 2 Billion Chinese in the world that don't give a dam.n." (meaning just that....the majority of the world couldn't care less how many football games you win). Which to be more current, I guess that should be closer to 3 million now, right?
|
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on May 30, 2013 15:46:15 GMT -6
Privatizing all sport is making more sense now than ever before.
You pay...you play AFTER you make the final cut.
Removing the politics is the only way to avoid the absurd....mostly.
I am not a HS Coach but it sure seems that many of you have little final say over your own teams anymore. Those "drugs" Threads pretty much said it all. Coaches no longer coach...they are glorified babysitters for lazy parents and righteous policies.
Cant imagine my HS Coach ever having to roll like that back in the day. It was do your job or be replaced....immediately. And if you were a druggie or a drinker or a ditcher...so what. That's your business. Perform. What you do off the field will catch up with you eventually anyways. Your choice so make them.
He wasn't my Dad. He was my Coach and taught me many life lessons indeed...like how to think for myself for a change. I dont even remember who our AD was or even the Principle.
Helicopter parents are the problem now a day. Its a done deal. I see it at the youth levels. Fortunately I don't have to answer to the politicians...yet...and coaching does not feed my family. So I have some latitude.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 30, 2013 15:55:37 GMT -6
Privatizing all sport is making more sense now than ever before. You pay...you play AFTER you make the final cut. Removing the politics is the only way to avoid the absurd....mostly. I am not a HS Coach but it sure seems that many of you have little final say over your own teams anymore. Those "drugs" Threads pretty much said it all. Coaches no longer coach...they are glorified babysitters for lazy parents and righteous policies. Cant imagine my HS Coach ever having to roll like that back in the day. It was do your job or be replaced....immediately. And if you were a druggie or a drinker or a ditcher...so what. That's your business. Perform. What you do off the field will catch up with you eventually anyways. Your choice so make them. He wasn't my Dad. He was my Coach and taught me many life lessons indeed...like how to think for myself for a change. I dont even remember who our AD was or even the Principle. Helicopter parents are the problem now a day. Its a done deal. I see it at the youth levels. Fortunately I don't have to answer to the politicians...yet...and coaching does not feed my family. So I have some latitude. First, privatizing won't change any of that. In fact it'll only make it worse. Second, coaching isn't as bad as it sometimes sounds here. People start threads here because they have a problem. That attracts people with similar problems. There are problems with all jobs and people in all jobs ask for advice and gripe. Human nature. Nobody writes a letter to the editor about how courteous and efficient somebody was. |
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on May 30, 2013 16:32:43 GMT -6
Fantom
Good points. I found those Drug related Threads very surprising though. Different World compared to when my kids were in HS just 15 years ago....or me 35 years ago.
Education is a State run entity and a big one. Seems to me Sports run as a business would end up being a better all around experience for everyone involved. Affordability now becomes the issue. The haves and the have nots.
Around here the Education Budgets are bleeding red ink from everywhere. Now they might have to spend monies on defending a coaches action for cutting kids?
The World has gone insane.
|
|
|
|
Post by holmesbend on May 30, 2013 20:26:27 GMT -6
Privatizing all sport is making more sense now than ever before. You pay...you play AFTER you make the final cut. Removing the politics is the only way to avoid the absurd....mostly. I am not a HS Coach but it sure seems that many of you have little final say over your own teams anymore. Those "drugs" Threads pretty much said it all. Coaches no longer coach...they are glorified babysitters for lazy parents and righteous policies. Cant imagine my HS Coach ever having to roll like that back in the day. It was do your job or be replaced....immediately. And if you were a druggie or a drinker or a ditcher...so what. That's your business. Perform. What you do off the field will catch up with you eventually anyways. Your choice so make them. He wasn't my Dad. He was my Coach and taught me many life lessons indeed...like how to think for myself for a change. I dont even remember who our AD was or even the Principle. Helicopter parents are the problem now a day. Its a done deal. I see it at the youth levels. Fortunately I don't have to answer to the politicians...yet...and coaching does not feed my family. So I have some latitude. First, privatizing won't change any of that. In fact it'll only make it worse. Second, coaching isn't as bad as it sometimes sounds here. People start threads here because they have a problem. That attracts people with similar problems. There are problems with all jobs and people in all jobs ask for advice and gripe. Human nature. Nobody writes a letter to the editor about how courteous and efficient somebody was. Several of us were just having this conversation the other night about there being problems with all jobs. My oldest sister hates football with a passion....I mean despises it because of the time it took away from her and our family (our dad was a HS coach for 27 years). Her husband is a fulltime firemen/EMT, and the first couple years they were married you would have thought being a fireman/EMT hung the moon (which, IMO and others, it does...the ultimate profession of bravery & heroism on a daily basis). Here it is two years later and the 1) Missing of holidays, birthday's 2) Not being off on the weekends 3) Being on call 4) 24 hour shifts etc., are starting to get old in her eyes (granted, my sister would NEVER admit to the point I once made about every profession having its pitfalls). |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 30, 2013 21:59:22 GMT -6
It's a tough job. We tell the kids all the time that the game's not for everybody. That's also true for coaching.
|
|
|
|
Post by newhope on May 31, 2013 7:34:35 GMT -6
While both lawsuits, based on the limited information provided in the story, are frivolous, both could have been avoided by the coaches taking proactive measures. In the track case, a simple notice to all prior to the season "you miss practice without notifying me in advance, you will be punished. If it happens a second time, you will be dismissed from the team". Problem solved. In the basketball case, notification to parents of how and when tryouts are conducted and that participation in preseason activities does not put you on the team until final cuts are made would have solved the problem.
As a coach, you have to anticipate the idiots and get ahead of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 31, 2013 8:15:46 GMT -6
While both lawsuits, based on the limited information provided in the story, are frivolous, both could have been avoided by the coaches taking proactive measures. In the track case, a simple notice to all prior to the season "you miss practice without notifying me in advance, you will be punished. If it happens a second time, you will be dismissed from the team". Problem solved. In the basketball case, notification to parents of how and when tryouts are conducted and that participation in preseason activities does not put you on the team until final cuts are made would have solved the problem. As a coach, you have to anticipate the idiots and get ahead of them. The article doesn't say that the coaches didn't do those things. |
|
|
|
Post by 353coach on May 31, 2013 8:48:10 GMT -6
We never cut anyone...we just make it so dang hard they cut themselves. Put little Jonny in against the other teams all district 3tech. He'll find something else to do.
If that doesn't go...the hills in July will get him.
|
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on May 31, 2013 9:57:39 GMT -6
99% of high school football teams don't cut. This article is talking about sports that do cut.
But if football Did have cuts it sounds like you're assuming every player you would cut is a dbag. What about the hard working players that are just terrible football players? You make their life hell and make sure they never see the field?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on May 31, 2013 9:59:58 GMT -6
99% of high school football teams don't cut. This article is talking about sports that do cut Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Like football track doesn't usually cut either except for disciplinary reasons. |
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on May 31, 2013 10:59:03 GMT -6
I know some schools around here who have cut almost 100 kids in the past few years... I've never cut a kid in my life, but I sure have less and less kids each week!
|
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on May 31, 2013 11:36:29 GMT -6
I'm a baseball HC and it does suck having to cut so many kids, but we just don't have enough coaches to keep everyone. We cut more kids than we keep. Yea there's awful players that are easy to cut, but the 10 or so close ones that have played their whole life, It's hard having to tell them they can't play the game they love anymore.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
|
|
|
|
Post by dubber on Jun 1, 2013 13:34:45 GMT -6
First off, this is crap, and I doubt it goes anywhere......but, to speak to the overall thrust of this thread.
Maybe I'm in a good situation school wise.
Maybe I'm just generally positive.
Maybe all it is I am 28 and need to hope for good things, because unless C.A.D. catches up with me (a real possibility) I have another 60 years or so.
Anyway, here goes....
Things are different today. That is all.
There are exists the EXACT same amount of crappiness/evil/pain/sucky situations, we have just shifted it around.
I would love to run my business under the rules of the largely deregulated 1950's, but I would have hated the tax rates.
I would have loved to coach kids that were 100% "yes sir", but questioning authority is a GREAT thing....you just get the thorns with the rose.
Things are just different.
I believe there are immutables in this life.....respect/love for other people, honesty, etc.
I don't believe those are in any less supply, they just aren't manifested in "traditional" ways, though at some point, when they are in control, tradition will be what they say.
There were just as many sociopathic kids in the 50's as there are today, they were just harder to spot back then.
Every generation since the depression/WWII folks has tsk-tsk-ed the ones younger than them and lamented the curent times and long for the "good old days".
Everyone gets down on this generation and what they are not, instead of highlighting what they are.....Gen Y will be better at collaboration, personal sacrifice, and will have more than veneer deep ethics (they will believe what they believe with conviction). They will have more in common with that WWII era folks than the baby boomers (and, just like the WWII generation, they will HATE their kids).
And I know there are a dozen posters who will disagree with me.
Bottom line: things will balance out, and it will be different, and there will be a lot of people that will hate it.
|
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on Jun 1, 2013 14:01:29 GMT -6
First off, this is crap, and I doubt it goes anywhere......but, to speak to the overall thrust of this thread. Maybe I'm in a good situation school wise. Maybe I'm just generally positive. Maybe all it is I am 28 and need to hope for good things, because unless C.A.D. catches up with me (a real possibility) I have another 60 years or so. Anyway, here goes.... Things are different today. That is all. There are exists the EXACT same amount of crappiness/evil/pain/sucky situations, we have just shifted it around. I would love to run my business under the rules of the largely deregulated 1950's, but I would have hated the tax rates. I would have loved to coach kids that were 100% "yes sir", but questioning authority is a GREAT thing....you just get the thorns with the rose. Things are just different. I believe there are immutables in this life.....respect/love for other people, honesty, etc. I don't believe those are in any less supply, they just aren't manifested in "traditional" ways, though at some point, when they are in control, tradition will be what they say. There were just as many sociopathic kids in the 50's as there are today, they were just harder to spot back then. Every generation since the depression/WWII folks has tsk-tsk-ed the ones younger than them and lamented the curent times and long for the "good old days". Everyone gets down on this generation and what they are not, instead of highlighting what they are.....Gen Y will be better at collaboration, personal sacrifice, and will have more than veneer deep ethics (they will believe what they believe with conviction). They will have more in common with that WWII era folks than the baby boomers (and, just like the WWII generation, they will HATE their kids). And I know there are a dozen posters who will disagree with me. Bottom line: things will balance out, and it will be different, and there will be a lot of people that will hate it. I seriously doubt anyone considered suing their School District over a Coach cutting their precious little snowflake in 1955. Otherwise I completely agree with your post. ( How the heck does Quote work now?) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2013 10:23:14 GMT -6
Pay for play does not remove politics, nor does making it private. It is pure folly to believe that making the sport totally private eliminates politics.
We see the argument against private anything as rich people who have to much power every single day and jammed down our throats.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2013 10:23:28 GMT -6
Pay for play does not remove politics, nor does making it private. It is pure folly to believe that making the sport totally private eliminates politics.
We see the argument against private anything as rich people who have to much power every single day and jammed down our throats.
|
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on Jun 21, 2013 12:33:14 GMT -6
Pay for play does not remove politics, nor does making it private. It is pure folly to believe that making the sport totally private eliminates politics. We see the argument against private anything as rich people who have to much power every single day and jammed down our throats. Anytime you move from the public sector to the private sector you are going from bad politics to better politics. This thread topic would very likely not even exist in the private sector. Better politics. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2013 13:00:00 GMT -6
politics is politics. this is the private sector.
|
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jun 21, 2013 14:23:26 GMT -6
Pay for play does not remove politics, nor does making it private. It is pure folly to believe that making the sport totally private eliminates politics. We see the argument against private anything as rich people who have to much power every single day and jammed down our throats. Anytime you move from the public sector to the private sector you are going from bad politics to better politics. This thread topic would very likely not even exist in the private sector. Better politics. If somebody's paying to play it seems like they're more likely to sue. |
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on Jun 21, 2013 17:24:56 GMT -6
politics is politics. this is the private sector. Im not familiar with any 19U Education System that isnt fully or partially funded and or mandated by the State. Maybe a Charter School or a Tech School. Im not familiar with those. But my local Public HS right down the street...fully funded and mandated by the State... top to bottom. The local Private HS up the street receives financial "perks" from the State and is fully mandated by the State. Lots of layers there (politics) with the Public School. Not so much with the Private School from my point of view. Delete layers and you delete politics (agendas). I only pay attention because we are in the midst of a full out Voucher War. I also deal with Governing Agencies directly and almost daily...lots of unnecessary fat. Its seems...this Coach in question in that story is caught up in all the unnecessary fat. My take. Im not a Teacher or a HS coach so Im not looking at this with blinders on. Make all HS Sports "Club Level" and I truly believe you all would end up better off in the long run. The downside....kids may or may not be able to afford to play. |
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on Jun 21, 2013 17:29:12 GMT -6
Anytime you move from the public sector to the private sector you are going from bad politics to better politics. This thread topic would very likely not even exist in the private sector. Better politics. If somebody's paying to play it seems like they're more likely to sue. In this day and age...you are correct. At least those that run to an Ambulance Chaser every time someone gives them an evil eye would at least think first.... Sue the School District....yes they have money. Sue Joe Football running a Club Level League...well he might be a regular Joe with no real money. Lawsuits always chase the cash. |
|
next
Freshmen Member
Posts: 74 
|
Post by next on Jun 21, 2013 18:42:25 GMT -6
I'm planning on suing everyone in any blog that disagrees with me AND suing those that agree with any idea that I have and they think it's good but actually turns out to be a bad idea  ...other than that everyone else is fine |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2013 18:52:53 GMT -6
politics is politics. this is the private sector. Im not familiar with any 19U Education System that isnt fully or partially funded and or mandated by the State. Maybe a Charter School or a Tech School. Im not familiar with those. But my local Public HS right down the street...fully funded and mandated by the State... top to bottom. The local Private HS up the street receives financial "perks" from the State and is fully mandated by the State. Lots of layers there (politics) with the Public School. Not so much with the Private School from my point of view. Delete layers and you delete politics (agendas). I only pay attention because we are in the midst of a full out Voucher War. I also deal with Governing Agencies directly and almost daily...lots of unnecessary fat. Its seems...this Coach in question in that story is caught up in all the unnecessary fat. My take. Im not a Teacher or a HS coach so Im not looking at this with blinders on. Make all HS Sports "Club Level" and I truly believe you all would end up better off in the long run. The downside....kids may or may not be able to afford to play. Politics lay in the public sector (govt) and the private ( citizen). The question becomes where do you want to play the politics. Politics will always exist. Privatized education (to much power by those in the public sector), which isn't going to happen in my lifetime is essentially club football. |
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on Jun 21, 2013 23:03:59 GMT -6
Im not familiar with any 19U Education System that isnt fully or partially funded and or mandated by the State. Maybe a Charter School or a Tech School. Im not familiar with those. But my local Public HS right down the street...fully funded and mandated by the State... top to bottom. The local Private HS up the street receives financial "perks" from the State and is fully mandated by the State. Lots of layers there (politics) with the Public School. Not so much with the Private School from my point of view. Delete layers and you delete politics (agendas). I only pay attention because we are in the midst of a full out Voucher War. I also deal with Governing Agencies directly and almost daily...lots of unnecessary fat. Its seems...this Coach in question in that story is caught up in all the unnecessary fat. My take. Im not a Teacher or a HS coach so Im not looking at this with blinders on. Make all HS Sports "Club Level" and I truly believe you all would end up better off in the long run. The downside....kids may or may not be able to afford to play. Politics lay in the public sector (govt) and the private ( citizen). The question becomes where do you want to play the politics. Politics will always exist. Privatized education (to much power by those in the public sector), which isn't going to happen in my lifetime is essentially club football. Politics aside.... Where I live the precedence is already being set. You have the Perfect Storm brewing. School Districts bleeding red ink from every orifice, Middle School Sports that have been defunct for 20 years now and a Teachers Union Pension that is beginning to overextend the Tax Base. Sokker, Lacrosse, Basketball and Baseball are already drifting towards pay to play Club Leagues or are fully there like Ice Hockey. The kids still wear their school colors and represent their mascots but behind the scenes everything is maintained by an entity that has nothing to do with the School District. The Districts are now actually making money off the Club Leagues by renting their facilities. That idea is very desirable to the District Bean Counters and the bottom line talks. They will not stop buying microscopes. They will stop buying Football Helmets. Football cant be that far behind. Unless you are in your 80’s….never in your lifetime is right around the corner. I coach in a large Independent Youth League. In 1990 we expanded the format from 2nd- 6th grade to 2nd-8th grade because the School Districts dropped all MS Sports. This year we were asked to consider expanding from 2nd-9th grade for football as Freshman Football is now in trouble. We expanded Baseball and Softball to the 10th grade two years ago. Lacrosse is nearly 100% Club Level 19U now meaning the kids start playing as 3rd graders and stay in the same "system" until College....and the League pays the Coaches salaries once they get to the 7th grade level. Times are changing. |
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on Jun 21, 2013 23:32:45 GMT -6
We don't have the luxury of cutting kids. We need every body we can get. Our program has been {censored} for years and we are in the second year of a rebuild. This will make me rethink ever cutting a kid, and I hope it doesn't come down to start me or I'll sue.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2013 4:13:49 GMT -6
Politics lay in the public sector (govt) and the private ( citizen). The question becomes where do you want to play the politics. Politics will always exist. Privatized education (to much power by those in the public sector), which isn't going to happen in my lifetime is essentially club football. Politics aside.... Where I live the precedence is already being set. You have the Perfect Storm brewing. School Districts bleeding red ink from every orifice, Middle School Sports that have been defunct for 20 years now and a Teachers Union Pension that is beginning to overextend the Tax Base. Sokker, Lacrosse, Basketball and Baseball are already drifting towards pay to play Club Leagues or are fully there like Ice Hockey. The kids still wear their school colors and represent their mascots but behind the scenes everything is maintained by an entity that has nothing to do with the School District. The Districts are now actually making money off the Club Leagues by renting their facilities. That idea is very desirable to the District Bean Counters and the bottom line talks. They will not stop buying microscopes. They will stop buying Football Helmets. Football cant be that far behind. Unless you are in your 80’s….never in your lifetime is right around the corner. I coach in a large Independent Youth League. In 1990 we expanded the format from 2nd- 6th grade to 2nd-8th grade because the School Districts dropped all MS Sports. This year we were asked to consider expanding from 2nd-9th grade for football as Freshman Football is now in trouble. We expanded Baseball and Softball to the 10th grade two years ago. Lacrosse is nearly 100% Club Level 19U now meaning the kids start playing as 3rd graders and stay in the same "system" until College....and the League pays the Coaches salaries once they get to the 7th grade level. Times are changing. Any program worth its salt, is run by the private sector. You dont need a european style set up to have that. Private financing, individuals who are willing to donate money, is already done by any high school that has really nice facilities and othe such things. |
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on Jun 23, 2013 8:49:43 GMT -6
Politics aside.... Where I live the precedence is already being set. You have the Perfect Storm brewing. School Districts bleeding red ink from every orifice, Middle School Sports that have been defunct for 20 years now and a Teachers Union Pension that is beginning to overextend the Tax Base. Sokker, Lacrosse, Basketball and Baseball are already drifting towards pay to play Club Leagues or are fully there like Ice Hockey. The kids still wear their school colors and represent their mascots but behind the scenes everything is maintained by an entity that has nothing to do with the School District. The Districts are now actually making money off the Club Leagues by renting their facilities. That idea is very desirable to the District Bean Counters and the bottom line talks. They will not stop buying microscopes. They will stop buying Football Helmets. Football cant be that far behind. Unless you are in your 80’s….never in your lifetime is right around the corner. I coach in a large Independent Youth League. In 1990 we expanded the format from 2nd- 6th grade to 2nd-8th grade because the School Districts dropped all MS Sports. This year we were asked to consider expanding from 2nd-9th grade for football as Freshman Football is now in trouble. We expanded Baseball and Softball to the 10th grade two years ago. Lacrosse is nearly 100% Club Level 19U now meaning the kids start playing as 3rd graders and stay in the same "system" until College....and the League pays the Coaches salaries once they get to the 7th grade level. Times are changing. Any program worth its salt, is run by the private sector. You dont need a european style set up to have that. Private financing, individuals who are willing to donate money, is already done by any high school that has really nice facilities and othe such things. Good point. Wouldn't donations only help the those with the Alumni base / community support? Seems plenty of schools would have to stop offering Sports if they were 100% reliant on donations. It could very quickly become the have's and the have not's. A Club format could...profit share like the NFL maybe? |
|
