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Post by coachnichols on Nov 23, 2007 21:43:58 GMT -6
Okay let me start with I put this here because I'm not talking run game or passing, no plays, no specific schemes, etc. Let's forget that for a minute. I have been reading Gus Malzahn's book, "The Hurry Up, No Huddle", and I now have questions... In the book he relates two versions of the No Huddle: - The more "traditional" No Huddle: don't huddle, just line everyone up on the L.O.S. to get the defense to line up. Then the coach checks what they are in and signals in the play to run. No real hurry to it.
- Two-minute offense: fast and furious all the time, trying to lengthen and "speed up" the game (his preference)
Does any one do this (Malzahn's version when he was coaching HS)? Two-minute offense the whole game, attempting to create a "fifth quarter" by running so many plays? If so, how do you make it work? What problems have you experienced? I am working toward being a HC some day, and I'm assuming wherever I end up will be a struggling program. I'm looking for an edge. Any thoughts on this approach? |
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Post by tog on Nov 23, 2007 21:53:42 GMT -6
we are some where in between
we see where they are at and change it
but mostly we just go quick to get as many plays in as possible
we have found that the games we win
are the games we run the most plays in
we have some explosive talent though
so it it is kinda like making sure babe ruth gets to bat as many times as possible
if i was at a place with very little talent, like my last school, then i would still want to get as many plays as possible, i would just try to do that from a different standpoint
as in, milk the clock as much as possible and focus more on the, (what are they giving us) phase
from here out i will be no huddle because of this year
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Post by jhanawa on Nov 23, 2007 22:29:44 GMT -6
I love no huddle for a few reasons, you can line your offense up and make the defense stay in their stances, you can check the play, or you can up tempo it and make the defense vanilla its package. IMO the best benefit of up tempo is that it wears down the Dline to the point of them being ineffective.
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Post by Coach Huey on Nov 23, 2007 23:38:59 GMT -6
this is such a great game of cat and mouse, isn't it? i mean, really, you gotta love the battle that is coaching football...
used to, up-tempo no-huddle would really vanilla a defense down because they didn't have as much time to signal in all the blitz signals, etc. and, they were concerned about being misaligned or misdeclared
then ... they, too, went to wristbands and condensed signals so the up-tempo factor was lessoned...
so ... no-huddle became more check with me stuff at the los to try to get the best play call vs the defense they were being shown
then ... defenses started really stemming or mulling around, making changes in personnel to delay the call or confuse the call
so ... offenses went to up-tempo -- gonna run a play RIGHT NOW -- or they would show they were about to snap the ball THEN check the alignment. in attempts to get defense to show their hand because they presumed the snap to be imminent...
but ... great defenses now also check their defense after the offense has made their check ... i.e. show 'em that the hitch is just wide open, then after the check, roll up to press or 2 deep, etc.
so .... the battle will continue
great game, ain't it??
so, for us, we try to do several "varities" of no huddle. the "hurry-hurry" type of snap ball as quick as possible ... the "check with me" after simulating that we are about to snap ball ... the "check-check" where we show snap, then look, then show snap, then look again. plus, mix in plenty of "dummy checks" (where we appear to be changing the play) all in an effort to keep defense from getting into their pre-snap rhythm
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Post by dblwngr on Nov 24, 2007 0:31:06 GMT -6
What if a defense stays with the same pre-snap look every time, then rolls into the desired coverage at the snap?
Has this ever given anyone trouble? We tried to do it in the playoffs, but were just out athleted all around, hard to tell if our game plan was sound or not.
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Post by FlexboneOne on Nov 24, 2007 7:38:50 GMT -6
Dblwingr
It really is a guessing game. But if you have scouted tendanciew, at least you have made your calls predicated on tangible data, and not some grab bag choice. As a triple option coach, I love when teams try to grab bag. That = TD
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 24, 2007 8:10:47 GMT -6
I think your tempo choice has a good deal to do with your ability to execute the offense. If you throw and catch well, or gain 4-5 yards a pop running the ball, you should be excited to run as many plays as you can. If you throw incomplete passes, don't protect well, and your running game goes nowhere, then uptempo no huddle leaves you open to some nice blow out losses
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Post by c63cross on Nov 24, 2007 10:33:39 GMT -6
Execution is the key to either tempo. However, I will say that the uptempo produces a momentum that is difficult to slow down. We ran up tempo all season and I found getting into that flow the most important aspect. We rolled when we got a least one first down per possession. If your kids buy into the benefits and run it right great things can happen. We averaged 39 points and over 400 yds a game. These stats are with very average OL and decent skill kids.
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Post by rebelfootballcoach on Nov 24, 2007 10:50:41 GMT -6
I have been running the no huddle for 10 years at 2 different schools. we average 65 plays a game. i have had average athletes and studs at various points. we went to more of an uptempo game this year. the biggest difference i found was in the 4th quarter. opponents were tired and worn out because of the pace & the additional time spent on the field.
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Post by kurtbryan on Nov 24, 2007 12:31:03 GMT -6
No Huddle Hurry Up or Not Question:
For more than two decades of coaching, I used the no-huddle rarely, then this year we began to use it, with Wrist Coaches, etc. Not only were the results good, but it puts tremendous pressure on D-Coordinators and their players. In terms of the tempo, we do "Light Speed" where the ball must be snapped within 7 - 10 seconds after the Ref spots the ball, and we also execute a Slow Down mode, typical to snap the ball 15 seconds after the ball is set.
Critical point is to make your offensive practices in no-huddle much faster/harder than the game, it teaches your players the proper tempo while getting them in excellent shape.
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Post by tog on Nov 24, 2007 20:48:46 GMT -6
something that kurtbryan points out that i agree with
one of the best things about no huddle besides the in game stuff is the tempo it allows you to practice at
makes practice fun and allows for a lot of quality reps
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Post by thakatalyst on Nov 28, 2007 0:00:06 GMT -6
We are a no-huddle offense and we stress "you're in a hurry, but you're not in a rush." When the play is over, help the ball carrier up and line back up in our spread formation. Wait for the call, then adjust if necessary. We also us NASCAR, which is definitely hurry-up. Two different tempos. Conditioning becomes the biggest concern with this style of play, however.
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Post by morris on Nov 28, 2007 6:43:36 GMT -6
Malzahn's tape goes into some of the issues and how it is done. He states that your DC must be ok with being on the field more and not getting much rest. He use to us ball boys also. If a long pass is overthrown or something then a ball boy runs out and gets the ball while a new ball is thrown in. The players are taught to hand the ball to the ref at all times. IF they toss it the ref could drop the ball which slows things down.
He also used 1 snap count and had a dead count. He wanted the defense to get into a flow and then go dead count which is a no play check with me so he used both methods. He also suggested that if you go against a team that has much better talent that this tempo can end up hurting you. He did not look at it as a equalizer to help when you are out matched but as a way to gain an edge against teams of similar talent levels. This can also be an issu eif you have a large amount of kids that go both ways and the other team is a 2 platoon.
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Post by knight9299 on Nov 29, 2007 23:45:20 GMT -6
I think your tempo choice has a good deal to do with your ability to execute the offense. If you throw and catch well, or gain 4-5 yards a pop running the ball, you should be excited to run as many plays as you can. If you throw incomplete passes, don't protect well, and your running game goes nowhere, then uptempo no huddle leaves you open to some nice blow out losses This is all you need to consider. |
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Post by brophy on Nov 30, 2007 8:24:53 GMT -6
here is a question for you folks.
I love no-huddle and tempo offense and think it is a great advantage of really forcing a defense to slow down.
My question is, if you run "Indy" pace offense, does it HAVE to directly affect what you do (philosophy) on Defense & ST?
I mean, it is a different approach to the game, with an entirely different philosophy of how most folks see the game. It is like saying you are going to run a MAC in one office, but everyone else is running Windows.........while you can make them all communicate and work together, there are accomodations needed.
Do the special teams philosophies need to be altered?
(Going for it rather than playing field position, because after all, you are trying to get more downs on offense anyway).
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Post by hsrose on Nov 30, 2007 8:57:04 GMT -6
What kind of thinking/effort/process goes into the playcalling when running no-huddle warp-speed? Are the playcalls more lookups (if it's 3rd and 5 we call 1 of these 4 plays) or it more of a gut feeling? What are the communications from the press box if you are running this for speed?
Casey
IHS Vikings
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Post by deaux68 on Nov 30, 2007 9:20:04 GMT -6
We gameplan our Indy calls. We didn't run it much at all this year.
To me, you are basically calling it like you would in a regular offense. You are just calling really quickly. That's why it is gameplanned.
I don't want to call a play from out of a grab bag. Normally we'll have about five plays a week that we run from an Indy pace. Meaning run to the line, get set and as soon as the whistle is blown we are running the play.
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zips94
Freshmen Member
Posts: 61
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Post by zips94 on Nov 30, 2007 10:53:04 GMT -6
Any interest in starting a thread that lists some ways in which teams use no huddle (i.e. systems)? What works best? Hand signals or wristbands? How many different runs or passes do you use? Which runs and which passes work best? Just curious...
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baler22
Sophomore Member
Posts: 120
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Post by baler22 on Dec 3, 2007 0:42:40 GMT -6
We use the Malzahn no huddle system and found it quite successful this year. We predominantly threw the ball and it allowed us to extend games about 20 to 30 plays a game. We felt it helped to wear teams out because we threw the ball so much and the lineman had to rush so much and the DB's run every where to cover. Also it helped late in games when we needed to mount a comeback because we were so used to no huddle. The best thing is the way you can get so many reps in practice. I felt we got better just because we constantly rep plays in practice. I shout a number we all scramble and run the play.
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zips94
Freshmen Member
Posts: 61
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Post by zips94 on Dec 3, 2007 10:04:39 GMT -6
baler22
Do you know anywhere I can get a copy of the Malzahn system quickly?
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Post by futurecoach on Dec 3, 2007 13:20:28 GMT -6
baler22 Do you know anywhere I can get a copy of the Malzahn system quickly? Malzahn's site is www.nohuddle.com . You can the book and tapes there. |
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