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Post by 43overcov4 on May 16, 2013 19:09:16 GMT -6
A former HC(All-American WR) asked me that one day and I said that I didn't know. He said it just makes more sense to call that a 7 tech and the call a head up a on a TE a 6 and inside shoulder a 6i. I agreed and have called it that since then. It's whatever is easier for the kids to me and I have no reason to call it something if it doesn't fit and make sense. Just because it is tradition doesn't make it right. Any thoughts or a little historical background please?
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Post by Chris Clement on May 16, 2013 19:12:47 GMT -6
There's no good answer, but there are some amusing anecdotes involving alcohol.
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Post by jg78 on May 16, 2013 19:54:34 GMT -6
A former HC(All-American WR) asked me that one day and I said that I didn't know. He said it just makes more sense to call that a 7 tech and the call a head up a on a TE a 6 and inside shoulder a 6i. I agreed and have called it that since then. It's whatever is easier for the kids to me and I have no reason to call it something if it doesn't fit and make sense. Just because it is tradition doesn't make it right. Any thoughts or a little historical background please? For us, a 1 tech. is inside shade of the guard, a 2 tech. is head up the guard, and a 3 tech. is outside shade of the guard. 4, 5 and 6 are the same alignments vs. the OT and 7, 8 and 9 and are the same alignments vs. a TE. I have never understood 4i, 6i, etc. Why not just 123, 456, and 789? That's what makes the most sense to me. |
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Post by newt21 on May 16, 2013 20:22:14 GMT -6
I do the 2i/4i because it's easier for the kids (aka the coaching staff). I tell them that even numbers are head up, odd numbers are outside shoulder, and inside shoulder is an i for inside. They learn it much easier this way IMO, but our numbering for run plays is also based on these. A 0/1 goes at the center (right/left respectfully), 2/3 at guards, 4/5 at tackles, 6/7 at TE. This way the kids can remember guards are 2's which means (depending on scheme) that I'm pulling on this play; which is another benefit in my book.
To each their own though, all that matters is that it makes sense to you and your kids. You can use whatever the heck you want as long as your communicating the same information back and forth and everybody is on the same page.
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Post by silkyice on May 16, 2013 21:05:53 GMT -6
When they created the techniques, no one played on the inside shoulder except the DE.
Head up center was 0, guard 2, tackle 4, tight end 6, wingback 8 which makes sense.
People did play outside shoulder. Outside shade on center 1, guard 3, tackle 5.
But there was one more technique played - inside shoulder of the TE. So it was 7, and then outside shoulder of the TE was 9.
The even numbers are in numerical order 02468 and the odd numbers are in numerical order 13579, but all the numbers together get out of order 0123457698 because of the inside shade tech on the TE.
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Post by larrymoe on May 17, 2013 7:49:17 GMT -6
Isn't there some deal about this is how Bear Bryant coached it and since the Bear did it most people just did it too because they thought it had to be right?
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Post by jpdaley25 on May 17, 2013 10:47:35 GMT -6
Inside shoulder a 7, head up a 6, outside shoulder a 9.....Got this from one of his players who coached me in college...The Bear wanted the head up techniques to be even numbers because he thought it would be easier to remember.
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Post by silkyice on May 17, 2013 10:50:44 GMT -6
Yes, this is from Bear Bryant and Bum Phillips.
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Post by spos21ram on May 17, 2013 11:15:15 GMT -6
Inside shoulder a 7, head up a 6, outside shoulder a 9.....Got this from one of his players who coached me in college...The Bear wanted the head up techniques to be even numbers because he thought it would be easier to remember. Yes but why isn't inside shade of TE a 6i and outside shade a 7? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by blb on May 17, 2013 11:29:11 GMT -6
Inside shoulder a 7, head up a 6, outside shoulder a 9.....Got this from one of his players who coached me in college...The Bear wanted the head up techniques to be even numbers because he thought it would be easier to remember. Yes but why isn't inside shade of TE a 6i and outside shade a 7? Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Bear-Bum didn't have "i" techniques in the original system, which was not intended in be 0-9 consecutively. As has been posted, Head-up (or Nose-to-Nose) techniques were even numbers, and eye-to-eye (or "shades") were odd numbers. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on May 17, 2013 11:54:05 GMT -6
I know most 4-4 G DC's use 6i in their terminology. I ran that in HS and almost every year I've been coaching... so it's stuck! But I know the Miami 4-3 guys liked 789 for the TE.
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Post by fantom on May 17, 2013 11:56:23 GMT -6
I know most 4-4 G DC's use 6i in their terminology. I ran that in HS and almost every year I've been coaching... so it's stuck! But I know the Miami 4-3 guys liked 789 for the TE. Maybe most that you know but I don't think that's necessarily true overall. |
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Post by cqmiller on May 17, 2013 12:13:37 GMT -6
We don't use that system... we go Evens head up and Odds outside:  |
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Post by jml on May 17, 2013 12:27:52 GMT -6
A former HC(All-American WR) asked me that one day and I said that I didn't know. He said it just makes more sense to call that a 7 tech and the call a head up a on a TE a 6 and inside shoulder a 6i. I agreed and have called it that since then. It's whatever is easier for the kids to me and I have no reason to call it something if it doesn't fit and make sense. Just because it is tradition doesn't make it right. Any thoughts or a little historical background please? For us, a 1 tech. is inside shade of the guard, a 2 tech. is head up the guard, and a 3 tech. is outside shade of the guard. 4, 5 and 6 are the same alignments vs. the OT and 7, 8 and 9 and are the same alignments vs. a TE. I have never understood 4i, 6i, etc. Why not just 123, 456, and 789? That's what makes the most sense to me. Fritz Shurmur in one of his books advocates using the 123, 345, 789 and I have used that ever since.. probably about 15 years ago. |
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Post by blb on May 18, 2013 7:13:34 GMT -6
To some having head-up techniques all "Even" numbers makes more sense than 1-9 consecutively.
Use whatever system you want, can teach-kids can learn.
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Post by jg78 on May 18, 2013 7:47:01 GMT -6
As we all know, there are a ton of different ways to define things and countless ways to be successful in this game. You just have to use what makes the most sense to you, whether you got it from a Hall of Famer or thought it up yourself while sitting on the couch drinking a beer.
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Post by silkyice on May 18, 2013 9:05:12 GMT -6
As we all know, there are a ton of different ways to define things and countless ways to be successful in this game. You just have to use what makes the most sense to you, whether you got it from a Hall of Famer or thought it up yourself while sitting on the couch drinking a beer. I agree, and by most sense to you I believe you mean what you can teach the kids that will make the most sense to them. |
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Post by jg78 on May 18, 2013 9:31:10 GMT -6
As we all know, there are a ton of different ways to define things and countless ways to be successful in this game. You just have to use what makes the most sense to you, whether you got it from a Hall of Famer or thought it up yourself while sitting on the couch drinking a beer. I agree, and by most sense to you I believe you mean what you can teach the kids that will make the most sense to them. Yeah. What makes the most sense to you is probably easier for you to convey to others and a large part of any coach's thinking process should include seeing things through the eyes of his players. |
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Post by 33coach on May 18, 2013 11:47:04 GMT -6
What threw me off for awhile when I was first starting was the '769' instead of '679'
Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards
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Post by Chris Clement on May 18, 2013 13:53:55 GMT -6
Then what would we call head up on a wing?
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Post by 33coach on May 18, 2013 15:23:32 GMT -6
Then what would we call head up on a wing? 8? Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards |
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Post by blb on May 18, 2013 15:23:44 GMT -6
Then what would we call head up on a wing? That would be an 8. 2 = Guard 4 = Tackle 6 = End 8 = Wing |
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Post by Chris Clement on May 18, 2013 18:49:19 GMT -6
What about outside shade on a wing? And if they're UBSW!
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Post by silkyice on May 18, 2013 21:43:56 GMT -6
What about outside shade on a wing? And if they're UBSW! If you use 2i,4i,6i,8i for inside and 0,2,4,6,8 for head up, then outside shades are 1,3,5,7,9 meaning that the 9 would be outside shade of the WB. This is probably the better way to do this. Using conventional 7698, then there is no number for outside shade of the WB that I know of. 11 maybe? |
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Post by leighroy353 on May 19, 2013 0:25:12 GMT -6
Using conventional 7698, then there is no number for outside shade of the WB that I know of. 11 maybe? We've rarely had to use it, but when we want a technique wider than outside shade on a wing, we call it 'jet' technique. We run heads up as even techniques, inside shade as i techniques and outside shades as odd techniques. |
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Post by blb on May 19, 2013 6:04:25 GMT -6
Actually an 8 technique would be a "true" Defensive End, a Contain man who lines up 1 1/2 to 3 yards outside TE (and thus also Wing) according to Bear's book.
8 technique (or 'E' gap in some coaches' terminology) is taken from Secondary in 7-man front.
I can't think of a reason why we would ever align a defender head-up (nose-to-nose) on a WB.
When we move our 4-3 OLBer to outside eye of WB to avoid being out-flanked we call that "Gone," as is in he has left his normal alignment.
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Post by fantom on May 19, 2013 8:11:11 GMT -6
Actually an 8 technique would be a "true" Defensive End, a Contain man who lines up 1 1/2 to 3 yards outside TE (and thus also Wing) according to Bear's book. 8 technique (or 'E' gap is some coaches' terminology) is taken from Secondary in 7-man front. I can't think of a reason why we would ever align a defender head-up (nose-to-nose) on a WB. We do that a lot against Wing T teams when we have a Cloud force to the wing side. The OLB has D gap, spilling to the force corner. |
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Post by blb on May 19, 2013 8:23:00 GMT -6
Actually an 8 technique would be a "true" Defensive End, a Contain man who lines up 1 1/2 to 3 yards outside TE (and thus also Wing) according to Bear's book. 8 technique (or 'E' gap is some coaches' terminology) is taken from Secondary in 7-man front. I can't think of a reason why we would ever align a defender head-up (nose-to-nose) on a WB. We do that a lot against Wing T teams when we have a Cloud force to the wing side. The OLB has D gap, spilling to the force corner. We want OLBer in a "Gone" to "press" WB like he would TE in 6 technique (Pro 4-3) - don't let him release into route, jam a Down block, don't get hooked on Buck Sweep, i.e. eliminate WB from play. Because of our alignment (DE in 7 technique) Down block is unlikely so we have OLBer align on outside eye rather than head-up to slow pass release and keep outside arm-leg free vs. Reach block. |
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Post by coachguy83 on May 19, 2013 13:22:18 GMT -6
What about outside shade on a wing? And if they're UBSW! It would still be an 8, because you have to slide over making PSG the 0 instead of C. I guess if they split out the PSE like Apopka you could technically call it a 6, but I would probably stick with calling it an 8 to cut down on confusion. |
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Post by outlawjoseywales on May 20, 2013 8:17:21 GMT -6
This system isn't about "making sense" it's a way of communicating that "Bear Bryant" made popular but attributes to "Bum" Phillips. On p. 29 of "Building a Championship Football Team" is where you find that info.
The original designation was "technique" but it's not "technique" at all for us, but we still use the term-Tech. Why? Because it's a way of doing things that we have all accepted. You don't have to use that, you can call them anything you want. BUT, if you do, then you have to explain it to everybody else. No more than that.
As to WHY, a 9 is a 9? I wish I could ask one or other of those great men. Back in the 50's a coach wasn't allowed to "coach" during a game. They also were not allowed to have free substitutions like we have now either. The linebackers (usually) had to make the defensive calls to move the players around. This had to be SUPER frustrating to any coach of that era. (no I wasn't there, I'm not that old)
As most of you know, this "technique" system allowed the defense to communicate among themselves during a game and make calls to move defensive players to the right spots.
Over the years, various staffs of mine have changed the numbers and done this and that, and that was fine. As long as my kids knew what WE were talking about, it worked fine. HOWEVER, (and this is the proverbial big but) since this is a message board and SIMPLY "a way of communicating" keeping the tech numbers uniform in the nationally accepted way, allows us all to be on the same page.
That's the point: calling a 9tech a 9tech is an easy way of us all knowing what you are talking about here in 2013 on this internet message board, just like it was a way of a defense getting everybody on the same page, back in 1955 for Bear Bryant at Texes A & M. with archaic rules.
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