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Post by jg78 on May 16, 2013 15:40:47 GMT -6
In the last several years we have seen some high school coaches make the jump to major college ball and become very successful. Gus Malzahn was coaching high school as recently as 2005. In 2010, he was the OC for a national champion Auburn team and is now the HC there. Chad Morris of Clemson was coaching high school ball in Texas in 2009. Now, he is the OC of a very potent Clemson offense.
With former high school coaches making such leaps, I have a couple of questions:
1. Is the gap between the coaching staffs of the top-tier high school programs in the country and major college programs closer now than, say, 20 years ago?
2. If so, do you think it will become more and more common to see very successful high school coaches given the opportunity to coach at the big-time college level?
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Coach Unk
Junior Member
[F4:coachdonjones]
Posts: 392
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Post by Coach Unk on May 17, 2013 15:12:43 GMT -6
1. The biggest reasons I think those guys got jobs was more because of their connections with other HS coaches in the area. That translates into having connections to recruit and that is what college football is all about. You will see a lot of bad college coaches still around for one reason only, they can recruit.
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Post by fantom on May 17, 2013 15:28:31 GMT -6
It seems that to go that route you have to be really good and really lucky. By lucky I mean that you have to get a HC job at a young age and it has to be at a school where you have a chance at great success. I helps if your program, besides winning a lot of games, regularly turns out D.1 talent. That gives you a chance to network with college coaches regularly.
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Post by Coach.A on May 17, 2013 15:34:14 GMT -6
And you have to run a high scoring no-huddle spread offense
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Post by jg78 on May 18, 2013 6:47:10 GMT -6
All good points.
I think technology and the ability to connect with others and communicate information (with a board like this one being a good example) has made high school coaching better than it was years ago. I also don't think the difference between the better staffs at the bigger high schools in the country and a major college staff is a great as the average football fan might think.
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Post by hemlock on May 18, 2013 7:10:48 GMT -6
I agree with fantom and to a lesser degree with pnoty. I had an opportunity to coach college ball because I had a connection who got me a GA gig. From there I networked, but it was still very, very hard. The reason for this, and anybody in the game now will tell you, is that you're friends need to be looking for people to work with them when you need a gig. In other words, either your friend is getting a job and is putting a staff together, or he's at place that is filling spots and he is in a position to whisper in someone's ear a bit.
Moving from HS to college is easier now then it was twenty years ago, but it depends on a lot of things. As a rule, I think the leap is easier if you're coaching HS in the South. Spring ball and culture of football goes a long way to helping coaches develop their craft as well as the players that colleges will recruit. Then, as fantom noted, you need to get the right gig at the right time. Malzahn was extremely lucky to land where he did. After that, he was smart enough to develop his system, market it, and then utilize the studs he had down there. But even with Gus, we can't forget HOW he landed his first gig at Arkansas - Nutt wanted his boys and bringing him in as the nominal OC was a way of greasing the skids so to say.
As others have said, recruiting is the key. If you coach in a place or in an area that's loaded with talent and you are wired into the area you will have a shot at moving up. I know lots of guys at the upper level, many of which will tell you themselves, that they are not there because they can coach, but because they can recruit.
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Post by jg78 on May 18, 2013 7:57:59 GMT -6
That's a good point. I think Malzahn had Mitch Mustain and some other guys who went to Arkansas and elsewhere. That definitely helped him get his opportunity. But he made the most of it. From high school ball in 2005 to head coach at Auburn in 2013 is a helluva rise.
That's the name of the game.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 18, 2013 8:52:31 GMT -6
I agree with fantom and to a lesser degree with pnoty. I had an opportunity to coach college ball because I had a connection who got me a GA gig. From there I networked, but it was still very, very hard. The reason for this, and anybody in the game now will tell you, is that you're friends need to be looking for people to work with them when you need a gig. In other words, either your friend is getting a job and is putting a staff together, or he's at place that is filling spots and he is in a position to whisper in someone's ear a bit. Moving from HS to college is easier now then it was twenty years ago, but it depends on a lot of things. As a rule, I think the leap is easier if you're coaching HS in the South. Spring ball and culture of football goes a long way to helping coaches develop their craft as well as the players that colleges will recruit. Then, as fantom noted, you need to get the right gig at the right time. Malzahn was extremely lucky to land where he did. After that, he was smart enough to develop his system, market it, and then utilize the studs he had down there. But even with Gus, we can't forget HOW he landed his first gig at Arkansas - Nutt wanted his boys and bringing him in as the nominal OC was a way of greasing the skids so to say. As others have said, recruiting is the key. If you coach in a place or in an area that's loaded with talent and you are wired into the area you will have a shot at moving up. I know lots of guys at the upper level, many of which will tell you themselves, that they are not there because they can coach, but because they can recruit. I am not sure that it is easier now than back then....back in the day ( I guess I am talking before the 90's) almost ALL coaches coached at the hs level at one time or another...now, most coaches don't
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Post by 4verts on May 18, 2013 11:37:16 GMT -6
If you go back and look at a lot of the recent hires the last year or two, especially in the south, each time a staff is filled out there is often at least one high school coach that is brought on.
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2013 11:47:30 GMT -6
If you go back and look at a lot of the recent hires the last year or two, especially in the south, each time a staff is filled out there is often at least one high school coach that is brought on. Really? Can you give some examples? I can't really think of any.
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Post by austinator on May 18, 2013 12:15:36 GMT -6
If you go back and look at a lot of the recent hires the last year or two, especially in the south, each time a staff is filled out there is often at least one high school coach that is brought on. Really? Can you give some examples? I can't really think of any. Last year's Middle Tennessee staff had Brent Brock (former HS coach in GA), David Bibee (former HS coach from TN), Troy's staff had a few, and I believe WKU's staff last year had at least 1 guy who coached HS ball in FL (and this year's staff has a few that has some HS experience). It seems that most of the former HS guys coaching college ball tend to start out at the FCS or mid-major level before going up to BCS ball (Malzahn did this as well).
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2013 15:24:09 GMT -6
Really? Can you give some examples? I can't really think of any. Last year's Middle Tennessee staff had Brent Brock (former HS coach in GA), David Bibee (former HS coach from TN), Troy's staff had a few, and I believe WKU's staff last year had at least 1 guy who coached HS ball in FL (and this year's staff has a few that has some HS experience). It seems that most of the former HS guys coaching college ball tend to start out at the FCS or mid-major level before going up to BCS ball (Malzahn did this as well). Out of a lack of anything better to do I've looked some of these guys up. I'm not seeing a lot of guys jumping from HS to D.1. Brock did but he may have had an edge: >>>>Brent Brock, a head coach in the Georgia high school ranks for 14 years and a former teammate of head coach Rick Stockstill, <<<< Sure, a lot of D.1 coaches started in HS but most either became a GA or had GAed before taking a HS job.
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Post by blb on May 18, 2013 15:26:02 GMT -6
And, then there's Todd Dodge...
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Post by austinator on May 18, 2013 16:50:12 GMT -6
If i'm not mistaken, wasn't Franklin a HS coach before joining the Mumme staff at UK
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Post by wingtol on May 18, 2013 18:01:45 GMT -6
There have been a few guys in the Western PA area that have jumped from HS to D1. Mainly because of people they knew. It's still all about who you know and how valuable you can be to them aka Malzhan having what the top 2 prospects in Ark. when he got hired. Also I am sure a bunch of these guys jumping from HS to D1 have coached in college before, maybe not for awhile but I would bet they have some college exp.
On a side note the DC of the Buffalo Bills was coaching HS in the early 2000's. Got a job with the Ravens doing software/computer playbook video stuff when it was getting big. He caught the eye of Rex Ryan and is now a DC and is mentioned every now and then as a HC candidate.
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Post by coachbdud on May 18, 2013 19:00:16 GMT -6
This is what I want to do... Idk why but lately I feel myself wanting to just get out of HS
I feel unappreciated and a little burnt out
I have another year to finish my credential but after that a big part of me wants to try to get a GA gig somewhere
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Post by rsmith627 on May 18, 2013 19:06:42 GMT -6
This is what I want to do... Idk why but lately I feel myself wanting to just get out of HS I feel unappreciated and a little burnt out I have another year to finish my credential but after that a big part of me wants to try to get a GA gig somewhere Absolutely. College coaches need to just hire me. I am young, raw, and ready to be molded into whatever they need. My dream is to just do football all day everyday. There are coaches on here that say it gets old. You know what gets old? Lesson planning and grading papers all weekend only to get crap from some snot nosed little pricks who don't know what a real day of hard work looks like.
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Post by 42falcon on May 18, 2013 19:41:03 GMT -6
Absolutely. College coaches need to just hire me. I am young, raw, and ready to be molded into whatever they need. My dream is to just do football all day everyday. There are coaches on here that say it gets old. You know what gets old? Lesson planning and grading papers all weekend only to get crap from some snot nosed little pricks who don't know what a real day of hard work looks like. I know this is off topic but..... why on earth did you become a teacher? Your job as a teacher is to aid them in developing the skills needed ie: hard work. My guess is your just venting but if that is how you feel and I mean truly feel ask your self this: "If your own child had you as a teacher with that mindset would you be happy as a parent?" Back to the topic at hand as it is a great one. Sometimes I think the same way as coachbdud ie: unappreciated, burnt out all of those things. Then I look back to when I did coach at that level here in Canada and there were days where it wasn't a whole lot different. Pay was crap (it was actually not even pay it was maybe enough to cover some bills). You would spend hours upon hours doing "football" which was awesome don't get me wrong here I loved that. But at the end of the day it was W's & L's and that was it. We game planed the crap out of weeks and coached the heck out of the players but come game day you either had the horses or you didn't. This for me was magnified even more so at the next level beyond HS. Which is where the recruiting stuff comes from and why that is so important. I even look at the Dinos one of the more dominant programs in our country and it comes down to recruiting. Their scheme is solid just like any NCAA school's scheme is solid and in all honesty a lot like any top HS team's scheme is solid. I had a coach at another University tell me this as we were talking about some of our kids: "You know I am sure __________ is a great kid and he looks like a great player who could play CIS football BUT you need to realize because of how the UofC recruits we need to change the people we look at." -He essentially was saying without better recruiting we are screwed. I think it is easier now to move up for a few reasons: 1) a lot of this is through connections / friends / contacts (like everyone here has already said) 2) now days it is easier to establish and develop these relationships with coaches (think about social networking, sending film via HUDL, You Tube, Coach Huey and other web based places to make contacts. In the 80's and maybe even 90's it was hard to branch out past your own small network of guys you played with or the local programs in your area. That makes getting out there easier. No doubt anyone here who wanted to could land a GA position somewhere especially if they scoured the Nation looking for places and had no issue of: -picking up and moving anywhere -making no money for a long time maybe even forever I often think if I was independently wealthy & had no family it would be the best gig on the planet b/c there is no guarantee I will be the next Mazlahan.
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Post by rsmith627 on May 18, 2013 21:17:15 GMT -6
Absolutely. College coaches need to just hire me. I am young, raw, and ready to be molded into whatever they need. My dream is to just do football all day everyday. There are coaches on here that say it gets old. You know what gets old? Lesson planning and grading papers all weekend only to get crap from some snot nosed little pricks who don't know what a real day of hard work looks like. I know this is off topic but..... why on earth did you become a teacher? Your job as a teacher is to aid them in developing the skills needed ie: hard work. My guess is your just venting but if that is how you feel and I mean truly feel ask your self this: "If your own child had you as a teacher with that mindset would you be happy as a parent?" Back to the topic at hand as it is a great one. Sometimes I think the same way as coachbdud ie: unappreciated, burnt out all of those things. Then I look back to when I did coach at that level here in Canada and there were days where it wasn't a whole lot different. Pay was crap (it was actually not even pay it was maybe enough to cover some bills). You would spend hours upon hours doing "football" which was awesome don't get me wrong here I loved that. But at the end of the day it was W's & L's and that was it. We game planed the crap out of weeks and coached the heck out of the players but come game day you either had the horses or you didn't. This for me was magnified even more so at the next level beyond HS. Which is where the recruiting stuff comes from and why that is so important. I even look at the Dinos one of the more dominant programs in our country and it comes down to recruiting. Their scheme is solid just like any NCAA school's scheme is solid and in all honesty a lot like any top HS team's scheme is solid. I had a coach at another University tell me this as we were talking about some of our kids: "You know I am sure __________ is a great kid and he looks like a great player who could play CIS football BUT you need to realize because of how the UofC recruits we need to change the people we look at." -He essentially was saying without better recruiting we are screwed. I think it is easier now to move up for a few reasons: 1) a lot of this is through connections / friends / contacts (like everyone here has already said) 2) now days it is easier to establish and develop these relationships with coaches (think about social networking, sending film via HUDL, You Tube, Coach Huey and other web based places to make contacts. In the 80's and maybe even 90's it was hard to branch out past your own small network of guys you played with or the local programs in your area. That makes getting out there easier. No doubt anyone here who wanted to could land a GA position somewhere especially if they scoured the Nation looking for places and had no issue of: -picking up and moving anywhere -making no money for a long time maybe even forever I often think if I was independently wealthy & had no family it would be the best gig on the planet b/c there is no guarantee I will be the next Mazlahan. I really do love what I do and am just venting. Most days are awesome but some are very frustrating.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 19, 2013 7:57:26 GMT -6
I guess I'll put this out there.. I applied for a D3 job in which I have known the HC for about 15 years..not friends but acquaintances. Certainly, I am friends with some of his friends. the job was posted at ncaa.org and was mentioned briefly on footballscoop so there will be alot of applications...plus its a great job w/ benefits etc..so I need to convince him that as a hs coach, I can benefit his program..here is a letter I wrote to him
Hi XXXX I am sure you have received a number of qualified applications for your open position So what separates me from the rest? As a teacher: First of all, I like to think of myself first as a teacher and second as a coach. I am a teacher of ideas and concepts. Being a high school teacher has taught me to relate to students on many different levels. I have learned as a teacher, each kid, at least in his own mind, is having a problem. As the saying goes, kids don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care. This is where I excel. As a coach: In my opinion, a coach's job is to teach and to motivate. Each player is motivated in a different way, a player can be "jacked up" but if he doesn't know his assignments, what difference does it make? I build confidence in young men which transfers to motivation. Each player's confidence is built in a different way. Yes, I am intense on the field but intense in a focused way...meaning each kid gets coached hard, just differently. As a recruiter: Recruiting is building relationships between us, the recruits, the parents and the coach....just plain hard, detailed work , one thing about being a HS teacher/coach, is that I communicate with all different kids and their parents EVERY DAY As a member of your staff: As you know, staff chemistry is as important as team chemistry. At this stage of my life, I just want to coach and do the best job I can. I can coach and have coached on both sides of the ball. There is no ulterior motive, I don't need to be a coordinator, a head coach. I just want to be able to contribute to a team the best way I know how.
Thank you for your consideration, Look forward to hearing from you
Jerry
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Post by 4verts on May 20, 2013 8:06:14 GMT -6
If you go back and look at a lot of the recent hires the last year or two, especially in the south, each time a staff is filled out there is often at least one high school coach that is brought on. Really? Can you give some examples? I can't really think of any. Mike Jinks--Texas Tech Jim Dye--Troy Jabbar Juluke--LA Tech These are just a few that I remember from the last cycle
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Post by hollyhood27 on May 20, 2013 8:22:04 GMT -6
USF hired the head coach from Miami Central to be their RB coach this year.
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Post by fantom on May 20, 2013 8:48:20 GMT -6
Really? Can you give some examples? I can't really think of any. Mike Jinks--Texas Tech Jim Dye--Troy Jabbar Juluke--LA Tech These are just a few that I remember from the last cycle Thanks. Hope you don't think I was arguing with you. I just couldn't think of any off-hand.
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Post by 4verts on May 20, 2013 10:46:29 GMT -6
Mike Jinks--Texas Tech Jim Dye--Troy Jabbar Juluke--LA Tech These are just a few that I remember from the last cycle Thanks. Hope you don't think I was arguing with you. I just couldn't think of any off-hand. Yea no problem. I've had this conversation before with a few people. I don't have numbers, but just from reading footballscoop over the last couple years it does seem that quite a few new hires are bringing on local HS coaches. I know that Kennesaw State just added a local HS coach to their new program as well.
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Post by rhscoachbh on May 20, 2013 11:38:42 GMT -6
Had a coach who was here for 9 years just get on as an offensive intern at USC. Not a bad jump, especially if Kiffin keeps his job.
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Post by irishdog on May 20, 2013 16:57:12 GMT -6
Many guys who are either nearing retirement (like myself), or retired from HS coaching, are being offered college jobs at all levels. Coaching experience, knowledge of the local HS scene in helping effectively recruit quality players, maturity in helping mentor the younger coaches, and not necessarily needing a high-paying job all contribute to hiring HS coaches at the college level. I was fortunate to get offered a "full-time" (9 month) contract at a D3 school. Fits my needs, and fits the program's needs.
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