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Post by fantom on May 9, 2013 17:56:55 GMT -6
I think so but you've also got to appreciate the nature of our position and what is and isn't acceptable behavior to the general public. We just had an english teacher fired on tuesday because of some of the conversations she was having with her classes. Those were very inappropriate and she deserved to be fired but it's right along these lines. As a teacher and/or coach that's something you accept when you sign up for this job. What was "inappropriate" about what she was saying? I'm an English teacher. I've noticed that a lot of kids will twist things around and complain that anything they don't want to talk about is "inappropriate" because they want to get their teacher in trouble and get out of doing their work. For example, I've had parents blow their top because I was "trying to make their kid worship the devil" (i.e. read the Odyssey and a short unit on mythology). I had my assistant principal flip her lid at me over bringing an anti-bullying news article into the classroom because it profiled a kid their age who committed suicide over it--I was told these "children need to stay innocent." These same "innocent children" come into class talking about having orgies in middle school and how great their favorite drugs are... Sent from my Desire HD using proboards Dude, you sooooooooooooo gotta get out of that hellhole.
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Post by wingtol on May 9, 2013 17:57:41 GMT -6
I have coached at 2 private schools in my about 16 year career. At both schools any major fundraiser the school had involved booze and gambling. So if they expect me to come and spend money on their booze and blackjack nights, I better not hear anyone complain what they saw me doing outside of coaching (with in legal and moral reason of course)!
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Post by larrymoe on May 10, 2013 6:43:25 GMT -6
Yes, overwhelmingly football coaches take themselves, the game and their programs WAY too seriously. Why? Football coaches have the ability to make a tremendous difference in the lives of anywhere from 40 to 70+ kids. So does a cook in the cafeteria.
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Post by spos21ram on May 10, 2013 8:19:46 GMT -6
I think the original post is more about professionalism and not so much taking ourselves too seriously. Think of it this way, our players/students and their families are our clients (to make a connection to other professions); now if I were a businessman I wouldnt want my clients seeing me hanging acting out as I did when I was in college. Granted, there is a slight difference in that we are mostly dealing with kids, but I think the comparison remains. That being written, I think there are some ways that coaches do take themselves too seriously, but most of those examples are media driven stereotypes of how coaches behave. I certainly think that it makes sense to watch yourself in some ways. There's a strip bar a block away from my school. If I was inclined to frequent strip clubs it wouldn't be that one. On the other hand, if I was having a beer at a local bar and a parent sat down and wanted to chat I wouldn't leave. Going to a strip club is probably safe. If someone saw you there and wanted to tattle on you, they themselves are now owning up to being there as well. But joking aside I don't act like an idiot in public, but I wouldn't no natter where I worked. I don't think twice about going to a bar. I don't get sloppy drunk. If I saw a parent and they wanted to sit down and have a drink with me I'd be fine with that. As most have said, I'm gonna be myself. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by amikell on May 11, 2013 7:41:22 GMT -6
I live in the district where I coach. After every game we go to a local bar&grill where we reserve a side room. A ton of our kids and their parents go to the same place after games, and see us there. In fact. many times the kids and/or their parents come over to congratulate or console us about the game. They all see us with beer in our hands or on the table. I think it's ok that kids see us in this light, especially since they see us as RESPONSIBLE. None of us are loaded, out of control or obnoxious. It kinda' sends a message that it's ok to have a beer or two(legally) as long as one can do it in a responsible manner. I think this is key. However, depending on where you live 1-2 drinks can easily be seen as "hammered" regardless of the truth. I live in the small town where I work. To me, it's important that the kids and parents are my wife, also a teacher, as a part of the whole community. We buy our beer from the kids at the town grocery store. I think modeling responsible action in all walks of life is part of teaching. However, I think what is deemed "responsible and acceptable" varies greatly with your region or town.
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Post by amikell on May 11, 2013 7:44:20 GMT -6
Coacharnold, I think you're coaching in the town I grew up in.
Seriously.
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Post by jg78 on May 11, 2013 9:07:11 GMT -6
As a head coach, you're a public figure in the community and a leader of young men and it's wise to be mindful of your words and actions. People expect you to be an upstanding citizen and a role model. If there's anything you like to do that might be frowned upon by those involved with your school or community, I would try to be discreet about it. You may feel that it's no one else's business what you do with your personal time (and I may agree with you for the most part), but trying to make that point probably isn't worth jeopardizing your job.
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Post by rsmith627 on May 11, 2013 10:21:56 GMT -6
As a head coach, you're a public figure in the community and a leader of young men and it's wise to be mindful of your words and actions. People expect you to be an upstanding citizen and a role model. If there's anything you like to do that might be frowned upon by those involved with your school or community, I would try to be discreet about it. You may feel that it's no one else's business what you do with your personal time (and I may agree with you for the most part), but trying to make that point probably isn't worth jeopardizing your job. True enough. Here in Mormon run Utah I am very careful when we go out for post-game meal and drinking as a staff. We are in a very tight community where everybody knows who you are and the whole caffeine and alcohol thing is frowned upon.
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coachmitts
Sophomore Member
Always compete
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Post by coachmitts on May 11, 2013 11:00:39 GMT -6
This to me is a matter of personal responsibility. Grants, not a HC at this point but we do go out every Friday night and enjoy some food and beer. We however are all responsible and don't get blasted. Parents and kids walk in, see and continue on. Bad some great conversations during that time. But no coach is getting to the point of being drunk. So I guess I don't see a point to parents getting upset. Now, I understand the politics of it, just haven't experienced it yet.
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Post by jg78 on May 11, 2013 11:15:23 GMT -6
This to me is a matter of personal responsibility. Grants, not a HC at this point but we do go out every Friday night and enjoy some food and beer. We however are all responsible and don't get blasted. Parents and kids walk in, see and continue on. Bad some great conversations during that time. But no coach is getting to the point of being drunk. So I guess I don't see a point to parents getting upset. Now, I understand the politics of it, just haven't experienced it yet. I think a lot of it depends on where you work. What may be fine at one school may get you fired at another. You just have to know your territory and keep your head on straight. And if there's a vice you just can't do without, find an appropriate time and place for it.
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Post by coachbdud on May 11, 2013 11:23:10 GMT -6
I have mentioned that I enjoy living just a little bit away from my school... I don't want to be in the neighborhood
not because I want to stay away from parents or not be seen at a bar/liquor store (I don't drink)
there are a few reasons (traffic, family, more centrally located, better area, less crime)
but the biggest reason I do not want to live in the same city is because I don't want any kids knowing where I live... I just think it opens me up too much to having pranks pulled on me, house/car getting egged, tires slashed by kids I failed or something like that...
Also when I coached at my old school I had some players who all lived within a 1/2 mile of my house.. every now and then one would just walk by, knock and want to hang out... it was weird and a little uncomfortable
I like the little bit of separation
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Post by amikell on May 11, 2013 14:26:17 GMT -6
Ok. I may be crazy here but what are you guys doing to have to worry about a student or player slashing your tires? WTF? I've lived in our town 7 yrs. I have had 1 bad incident with a parent in the town grocery store.
I know people get crazy but if you're that worried about kids doing something that bad to you then you either need to (a) change how you treat kids, (b) change how you view them to be more positive, or, if they're slashing tires b/c you're losing, (c) find a way to win.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 15:09:17 GMT -6
Ok. I may be crazy here but what are you guys doing to have to worry about a student or player slashing your tires? WTF? I've lived in our town 7 yrs. I have had 1 bad incident with a parent in the town grocery store. I know people get crazy but if you're that worried about kids doing something that bad to you then you either need to (a) change how you treat kids, (b) change how you view them to be more positive, or, if they're slashing tires b/c you're losing, (c) find a way to win. A lot of my students have already been in trouble with the cops for stuff like this. So have many of their PARENTS. It's just how a big portion of the community here operates. In the classroom, I may not have much support when I enforce discipline, but I'm not going to just hand kids a passing grade for nothing or let them bully other kids, vandalize my property at the school, cuss me, etc. This makes a lot of them want to get back at me. I already have them flipping me off and stuff when I bump into them at Wal-Mart because I "got them in trouble" over things like trying to break my smartboard. For that reason, I'd rather my kids not know exactly where I live. I don't even like that many of them know what car I drive because they've seen me in it.
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Post by coachcb on May 11, 2013 15:22:57 GMT -6
I do everything I can to keep my home life separate from my teaching and coaching career. For me, that means keeping some distance between myself and parents and many of the people I work with. I don't go out of my way to be rude or reclusive but I also limit my interactions to what is necessary.
I have just experienced too many situations where a coach or teacher has gone out of their way to be "social" with parents or coworkers and it has caused stress.
It's not really about paranoia with me; I just want to limit the stress in my life and I've found that establishing a very firm line between my private and professional lives does that.
The last time I went out to dinner with coworkers, two of them started a discussion that involved confidential information. Everyone else stayed out of it yet we all had to talk to the principal about it the next day. Now, was it a huge deal? No, because I wasn't running my mouth. Was it still some unnecessary bullchit to deal with? Yup.
A group of parents invited me to a tailgate party a few years ago and I attended. They offered me a beer but I declined because there were players around. However, one of them noticed I had a dip in and brought it up to the AD when I suspended his kid's best friend from the team. Again, it wasnt a big deal but I didn't need anymore crap.
These are just two of many examples of little crap that I've had to deal with because I went out of my way with parents and co-workers.
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Post by jg78 on May 11, 2013 15:41:20 GMT -6
I do everything I can to keep my home life separate from my teaching and coaching career. For me, that means keeping some distance between myself and parents and many of the people I work with. I don't go out of my way to be rude or reclusive but I also limit my interactions to what is necessary. I have just experienced too many situations where a coach or teacher has gone out of their way to be "social" with parents or coworkers and it has caused stress. It's not really about paranoia with me; I just want to limit the stress in my life and I've found that establishing a very firm line between my private and professional lives does that. The last time I went out to dinner with coworkers, two of them started a discussion that involved confidential information. Everyone else stayed out of it yet we all had to talk to the principal about it the next day. Now, was it a huge deal? No, because I wasn't running my mouth. Was it still some unnecessary bullchit to deal with? Yup. A group of parents invited me to a tailgate party a few years ago and I attended. They offered me a beer but I declined because there were players around. However, one of them noticed I had a dip in and brought it up to the AD when I suspended his kid's best friend from the team. Again, it wasnt a big deal but I didn't need anymore crap. These are just two of many examples of little crap that I've had to deal with because I went out of my way with parents and co-workers. Good post, coach. I agree with you 100% on your approach to relationships with parents. Be nice and courteous, of course, but it is wise to be careful about getting too close privately and doing or saying things you shouldn't around them. That is very easy to do. The same goes for co-workers, especially subordinates. I would advise against going out for a beer on Saturday night with someone you may have to chew out on Monday. Bobby Bowden's book "The Bowden Way" has a chapter (Keeping A Professional Distance) that is devoted to preventing these kinds of problems. It is a good book about general leadership as a head coach.
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Post by coachcb on May 11, 2013 16:28:52 GMT -6
I do everything I can to keep my home life separate from my teaching and coaching career. For me, that means keeping some distance between myself and parents and many of the people I work with. I don't go out of my way to be rude or reclusive but I also limit my interactions to what is necessary. I have just experienced too many situations where a coach or teacher has gone out of their way to be "social" with parents or coworkers and it has caused stress. It's not really about paranoia with me; I just want to limit the stress in my life and I've found that establishing a very firm line between my private and professional lives does that. The last time I went out to dinner with coworkers, two of them started a discussion that involved confidential information. Everyone else stayed out of it yet we all had to talk to the principal about it the next day. Now, was it a huge deal? No, because I wasn't running my mouth. Was it still some unnecessary bullchit to deal with? Yup. A group of parents invited me to a tailgate party a few years ago and I attended. They offered me a beer but I declined because there were players around. However, one of them noticed I had a dip in and brought it up to the AD when I suspended his kid's best friend from the team. Again, it wasnt a big deal but I didn't need anymore crap. These are just two of many examples of little crap that I've had to deal with because I went out of my way with parents and co-workers. Good post, coach. I agree with you 100% on your approach to relationships with parents. Be nice and courteous, of course, but it is wise to be careful about getting too close privately and doing or saying things you shouldn't around them. That is very easy to do. The same goes for co-workers, especially subordinates. I would advise against going out for a beer on Saturday night with someone you may have to chew out on Monday. Bobby Bowden's book "The Bowden Way" has a chapter (Keeping A Professional Distance) that is devoted to preventing these kinds of problems. It is a good book about general leadership as a head coach. The number one thing most teachers/coaches need to learn about parents is this; their perception of their kid's well-being is their number one priority. And I say "perception" because "well-being" is very subjective. I coached a kid from his seventh grade year until he was a junior in high school when I first started out. I became close reasonably close with his parents (attended a few BBQs they threw) as I was heavily involved with their boy. That became a nightmare for me when the kid was suspended from the team for two games because he got into a fight. They brought MY name up with the HC and AD, saying I was backing their boy when I said nothing of the sort to them about it. I hadnt even discussed it with them. They just assumed that was the case and I had to fight pretty hard to get back in good standing with the HC even though it was a total crock of chit. So many teachers and coaches forget that our careers are just that CAREERS. They are our jobs and need to maintain a boundary there.
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coachmitts
Sophomore Member
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Post by coachmitts on May 12, 2013 0:05:34 GMT -6
Now from what I am reading, it sounds like most of us live in suburbs of suburbs and can live at a distance from the school we coach/teach at. But what if you coached at some small town school where the next city was 50 miles away and was your arch rival. What if you HAD to live in the city. I guess think FNL style. What happens then? Would you not out yourself in that situation or just deal with it?
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Post by coachcb on May 12, 2013 8:18:54 GMT -6
Now from what I am reading, it sounds like most of us live in suburbs of suburbs and can live at a distance from the school we coach/teach at. But what if you coached at some small town school where the next city was 50 miles away and was your arch rival. What if you HAD to live in the city. I guess think FNL style. What happens then? Would you not out yourself in that situation or just deal with it? I have been in this situation and its still easy to keep your nose out of the bullchit. I was the HC of a small Catholic school on a self-contained campus in a tiny town for several years. Basically, I became kind of reclusive; my social life consisted of attending school functions and I rarely spent time outside of school with co-workers and I never went to the bars with them. But, I used to take two-hour long walks around the area and would always stop and shoot the chit with folks along my way. It's pretty simple fellas; your relationships with co-workers and parents need to be pleasant and superficial.
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Post by fantom on May 12, 2013 8:27:17 GMT -6
Now from what I am reading, it sounds like most of us live in suburbs of suburbs and can live at a distance from the school we coach/teach at. But what if you coached at some small town school where the next city was 50 miles away and was your arch rival. What if you HAD to live in the city. I guess think FNL style. What happens then? Would you not out yourself in that situation or just deal with it? I have been in this situation and its still easy to keep your nose out of the bullchit. I was the HC of a small Catholic school on a self-contained campus in a tiny town for several years. Basically, I became kind of reclusive; my social life consisted of attending school functions and I rarely spent time outside of school with co-workers and I never went to the bars with them. But, I used to take two-hour long walks around the area and would always stop and shoot the chit with folks along my way. It's pretty simple fellas; your relationships with co-workers and parents need to be pleasant and superficial. Not if you're planning to stay there for the long run.
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Post by coachcb on May 12, 2013 11:32:07 GMT -6
I have been in this situation and its still easy to keep your nose out of the bullchit. I was the HC of a small Catholic school on a self-contained campus in a tiny town for several years. Basically, I became kind of reclusive; my social life consisted of attending school functions and I rarely spent time outside of school with co-workers and I never went to the bars with them. But, I used to take two-hour long walks around the area and would always stop and shoot the chit with folks along my way. It's pretty simple fellas; your relationships with co-workers and parents need to be pleasant and superficial. Not if you're planning to stay there for the long run. They would have kept me on indefinitely had I chosen to stay there. The head track coach down there is a total recluse and she's been on campus for over a decade. In a town of 200-300 people, putting yourself out there too much is the quickest way to get fired. Hell, I didn't tell anyone when my divorce was finalized but every knew within a week because I wasn't wearing my wedding ring. The owner of the local gas station asked me all about it and I had one conversation with him up to that point.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 11:40:59 GMT -6
do we take ourselves to seriously? as in spend to much time watching film? as in being firm in my faith and values? as in holding kids accountable? As in holding other coaches accountable? Yeah I take myself way to seriously. I don't know how else you can take that question. Why bother if everything is lost in moral relativity (not a question). Just so we understand I am not about imposing my view on others, but by no means am I going to have others views, through intimation, silence, guilt or other words, imposed on me.
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Post by mariner42 on May 12, 2013 11:45:18 GMT -6
I try to guard myself from being seen in what could be an unfavorable light, but I don't shy away from being involved in the lives of students and athletes of mine.
You could say I'm secretive about things like my dating life, where I live, my phone #, things that are either topics that shouldn't come up with teenagers or could create a bad/dangerous situation for me. I've had kids see me while out on dates and then ask me about them, but I'll never tell them anything about it. Heck, I brought the girl I was dating to a JV football game once and I didn't stop hearing about that/her from students for another 6-7 months.
Most of my concern lies with my relationship to my students/athletes, not so much the parents. In that sense, I take myself pretty seriously, but otherwise I don't worry too much.
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Post by fantom on May 12, 2013 11:45:24 GMT -6
Not if you're planning to stay there for the long run. They would have kept me on indefinitely had I chosen to stay there. The head track coach down there is a total recluse and she's been on campus for over a decade. In a town of 200-300 people, putting yourself out there too much is the quickest way to get fired. Hell, I didn't tell anyone when my divorce was finalized but every knew within a week because I wasn't wearing my wedding ring. The owner of the local gas station asked me all about it and I had one conversation with him up to that point. If you can live that way, fine. If the track coach is happy great. I couldn't live that way and it sounds like you couldn't either but some people can. I guess that goes to the thread about being a good fit for a job.
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Post by fantom on May 12, 2013 12:54:30 GMT -6
do we take ourselves to seriously? as in spend to much time watching film? as in being firm in my faith and values? as in holding kids accountable? As in holding other coaches accountable? Yeah I take myself way to seriously. I don't know how else you can take that question. Why bother if everything is lost in moral relativity (not a question). Just so we understand I am not about imposing my view on others, but by no means am I going to have others views, through intimation, silence, guilt or other words, imposed on me. What are you talking about?
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Post by coachcb on May 12, 2013 13:56:33 GMT -6
They would have kept me on indefinitely had I chosen to stay there. The head track coach down there is a total recluse and she's been on campus for over a decade. In a town of 200-300 people, putting yourself out there too much is the quickest way to get fired. Hell, I didn't tell anyone when my divorce was finalized but every knew within a week because I wasn't wearing my wedding ring. The owner of the local gas station asked me all about it and I had one conversation with him up to that point. If you can live that way, fine. If the track coach is happy great. I couldn't live that way and it sounds like you couldn't either but some people can. I guess that goes to the thread about being a good fit for a job. It worked for me as I'm not a "people person" for the most part. I imagine my approach would have changed as I became more comfortable with the school and community but I think I still would have been pretty shut off.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 15:45:27 GMT -6
do we take ourselves to seriously? as in spend to much time watching film? as in being firm in my faith and values? as in holding kids accountable? As in holding other coaches accountable? Yeah I take myself way to seriously. I don't know how else you can take that question. Why bother if everything is lost in moral relativity (not a question). Just so we understand I am not about imposing my view on others, but by no means am I going to have others views, through intimation, silence, guilt or other words, imposed on me. What are you talking about? No other way to really answer the question in my opinion. The opposite of that question is do we not take ourselves seriously enough. I would rather take myself to seriously.
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Post by fantom on May 12, 2013 16:25:55 GMT -6
What are you talking about? No other way to really answer the question in my opinion. The opposite of that question is do we not take ourselves seriously enough. I would rather take myself to seriously. Sometimes it's too hot, sometimes it's too cold, sometimes it's just right. If you're doing too much of something you don't need to do the opposite to correct it. What do I mean by too seriously? One example would be taking pride in grinding just for the sake of grinding. One example would be watching a film for the fifth time without a real plan for what you're looking for. They don't have alternative endings. A lot of us mistake activity for achievement and take pride in it. Another example would be drastically changing how I live my life because I'm afraid what people will think. Of course I'm not going to get falling-down drunk in a strip bar and yell "Roll Tide" but that's not because I'm a coach. That's because I left college many years ago and that's not the way grown men act. I'm not going to choose my friends and associates based on what other people may think. Of course you have to be wary of peoples' motivation when a parent starts buddying up to you but that doesn't mean that I'm going to disassociate myself from parents socially. If I want to go to Hooters I'll go to Hooters and if I get fired for that I don't want to work there anywhere.
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Post by spos21ram on May 12, 2013 17:44:06 GMT -6
No other way to really answer the question in my opinion. The opposite of that question is do we not take ourselves seriously enough. I would rather take myself to seriously. Sometimes it's too hot, sometimes it's too cold, sometimes it's just right. If you're doing too much of something you don't need to do the opposite to correct it. What do I mean by too seriously? One example would be taking pride in grinding just for the sake of grinding. One example would be watching a film for the fifth time without a real plan for what you're looking for. They don't have alternative endings. A lot of us mistake activity for achievement and take pride in it. Another example would be drastically changing how I live my life because I'm afraid what people will think. Of course I'm not going to get falling-down drunk in a strip bar and yell "Roll Tide" but that's not because I'm a coach. That's because I left college many years ago and that's not the way grown men act. I'm not going to choose my friends and associates based on what other people may think. Of course you have to be wary of peoples' motivation when a parent starts buddying up to you but that doesn't mean that I'm going to disassociate myself from parents socially. If I want to go to Hooters I'll go to Hooters and if I get fired for that I don't want to work there anywhere. fantom Can't agree more.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 18:15:15 GMT -6
let me put it another way, I am going to live as I believe...some people may disagree or not like it...but I am not looking for 99.999999 pct of the worlds pop. acceptance. don't care.
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Post by fantom on May 12, 2013 19:12:58 GMT -6
let me put it another way, I am going to live as I believe...some people may disagree or not like it...but I am not looking for 99.999999 pct of the worlds pop. acceptance. don't care. Then we don't disagree.
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