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Post by airraider on Apr 11, 2013 14:38:36 GMT -6
A little back ground...
This season we had a senior quit during 2-a-days and came back the following Monday... we as a staff allowed him to come back... did not leave it up the kids...
Now this off season we have a had a tough time fighting baseball in terms of kids lifting.
Our break down is as follows...
7-9th 5th hour.
10th 6th hour.
11th after school (before baseball practice)
We do not lift them on game days or the day before if they are pitching that day.
Now... we have had 4 baseball players say they are not playing next year.. 2 sophomores and 2 jrs.
3 said they just didnt want to play... didnt want to get hurt for baseball whatever...
One was cornered at lunch by our line coach and basically given an ultimatum... either you are going to be in the weightroom or you are not playing... well the kid said... Im just not going to play...
Pretty cut and dry I guess...
But now, he has decided he wants to come back and actually wants to lift...
Some of the sophomore kids on the team are against it... saying its not right because he quit.
So as a staff some of us think we should allow the team to vote on it...
But here is the problem... these kids who are making a big deal about it do not like this particular kid... I even asked one of them "what if ****** wanted to come back... "well we like him" was the answer.
So the vote is really not on the aspect of quitting... its on personal preference for this kid.
Now we have 2 other kids who are playing but has not been in the weightroom at all this off season.. 1 plays hockey and the other lifts with his dad in the mornings... HC said he talked to both of them and they have an understanding...
But does that really fly in the eyes of the kids?
Did the other kid really "quit" being that the season is not even here yet?
Would the other 2 have "quit" if given that ultimatum?
How would you handle it?
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Post by coach2013 on Apr 11, 2013 14:41:42 GMT -6
I dont think you can "quit" in the off season.
Kids get cut from baseball, its an eye opener for them. Suddenly football looks attractive.
The bottom line is this, can you trust this kid....ever? You let him play on the team, doesnt mean he gets to play in any varsity games.
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Post by airraider on Apr 11, 2013 14:46:49 GMT -6
I dont think you can "quit" in the off season. Kids get cut from baseball, its an eye opener for them. Suddenly football looks attractive. The bottom line is this, can you trust this kid....ever? You let him play on the team, doesnt mean he gets to play in any varsity games. Very good point.. this kid came in thinking he was going to be a baseball stud for us since we are a small private school.. hes not starting.. so very true about being eye opening... Also, background on the kid.. 2 way starter for us this season.. one of those types of kids who you could always rely on... play anywhere you asked him to... hustle every game and every practice. I think our HC might just be afraid of losing some of the team if he lets him back... or... having some "quit" from Jan until April next year to get out of weights... Which is a valid point. |
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Post by coach2013 on Apr 11, 2013 14:51:27 GMT -6
U cant quit in the off season. Dont come to weights? fine, get more duties, last pick of gear, cant be captain, may not be a starter, cant be nominated for all conference and so on. Theres plenty a coach can do with a kid whom he owes nothing. In the end, the best kids need to be on the field for the team.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 11, 2013 19:31:31 GMT -6
Great way:
All athletes work out all year. AD or principal might have to mandate that if coaches can't get on board.
Even better way:
Get the kids to enjoy weights and want to work out. That can happen if they see the results from hard work and the workout program is designed to make them better, not be a wearout and take too much time. make them see benefits as an athlete, nut just a football player.
Now to try and help with your problem:
Game suspensions. Missing winter weights = 1 game suspension or whatever you choose. Missing spring training = 1 game. Missing summer = 1 game or more. Come up with some penalty and stick to it.
We had a kid that thought he wasn't going to come to our school the next year. So he didn't do spring training or summer weights. About a week before August practice started he found out that he was coming back. I asked all the kids and they all said that was actually the case. I figured up the amount of days of work he missed and suspended him for the first three games. He had something like 40 days of extra bear crawls, etc. after practice. He made it all up. He ended up being a decent backup at the end of that year and a stud this past year. He will be incredible this year. If I wouldn't have let him play there is a chance he wouldn't have played last year or this year. Now he loves it and stays after school to work extra.
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Post by airraider on Apr 11, 2013 19:55:04 GMT -6
Great way: All athletes work out all year. AD or principal might have to mandate that if coaches can't get on board. Even better way: Get the kids to enjoy weights and want to work out. That can happen if they see the results from hard work and the workout program is designed to make them better, not be a wearout and take too much time. make them see benefits as an athlete, nut just a football player. Now to try and help with your problem: Game suspensions. Missing winter weights = 1 game suspension or whatever you choose. Missing spring training = 1 game. Missing summer = 1 game or more. Come up with some penalty and stick to it. We had a kid that thought he wasn't going to come to our school the next year. So he didn't do spring training or summer weights. About a week before August practice started he found out that he was coming back. I asked all the kids and they all said that was actually the case. I figured up the amount of days of work he missed and suspended him for the first three games. He had something like 40 days of extra bear crawls, etc. after practice. He made it all up. He ended up being a decent backup at the end of that year and a stud this past year. He will be incredible this year. If I wouldn't have let him play there is a chance he wouldn't have played last year or this year. Now he loves it and stays after school to work extra. Yea we are slowly changing the culture... 7th and 8th graders love to lift.. they are seeing the biggest benefits right now. A few of our kids we couldnt keep them out of the weightroom if we tried... the others just the opposite. |
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Post by silkyice on Apr 11, 2013 20:11:39 GMT -6
Great way: All athletes work out all year. AD or principal might have to mandate that if coaches can't get on board. Even better way: Get the kids to enjoy weights and want to work out. That can happen if they see the results from hard work and the workout program is designed to make them better, not be a wearout and take too much time. make them see benefits as an athlete, nut just a football player. Now to try and help with your problem: Game suspensions. Missing winter weights = 1 game suspension or whatever you choose. Missing spring training = 1 game. Missing summer = 1 game or more. Come up with some penalty and stick to it. We had a kid that thought he wasn't going to come to our school the next year. So he didn't do spring training or summer weights. About a week before August practice started he found out that he was coming back. I asked all the kids and they all said that was actually the case. I figured up the amount of days of work he missed and suspended him for the first three games. He had something like 40 days of extra bear crawls, etc. after practice. He made it all up. He ended up being a decent backup at the end of that year and a stud this past year. He will be incredible this year. If I wouldn't have let him play there is a chance he wouldn't have played last year or this year. Now he loves it and stays after school to work extra. Yea we are slowly changing the culture... 7th and 8th graders love to lift.. they are seeing the biggest benefits right now. A few of our kids we couldnt keep them out of the weightroom if we tried... the others just the opposite. That tells me you are doing it right! |
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 11, 2013 20:18:00 GMT -6
We can't cut a kid in the off season even if you wanted to, but you said you're a private school so maybe you can. But I really don't think you should cut a kid for refusing to workout in the off season.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by tigercoach11 on Apr 11, 2013 21:31:38 GMT -6
Hes a kid and he said something dumb...it happens. I wouldnt cut him but I would have a talk with him one on one (if youre the HC) about the necessity of the weightroom not only for football but for all sports. also, would having him work out in the morning instead of right before practice make anything better? I fight battles with other sports as well but the weightroom is not optional, but since I made that rule it is up to me to be there at times (before school) that I dont necessarily want to, so a kid can lift.
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Post by rystaylo on Apr 12, 2013 5:47:06 GMT -6
If a kid misses weights and he is not in another sport, then he has to run a mile for everyday he missed.
if he is in another sport, he is excused.
if he misses spring football he cannot play in the fall.
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Post by newhope on Apr 12, 2013 6:14:12 GMT -6
Many states will not let you make offseason workouts--including lifting--mandatory. There's probably a good reason for that. Often we think every kid should be totally devoted to our sport above everything else---lift, workout, etc whenever we feel they need to. Bottom line, though, is that they are kids, not professional players and they should be allowed to be kids. If they're playing baseball, fine. If they're playing another sport, fine. Play it, enjoy it, and when it's done, come back to us and let's get ready for football. We try our best to make sure those kids who play other sports are in weight training during the day, and that solves the problem.
If you have exceptions for kids who are playing hockey or "lifting with their dad" (that's one that doesn't fly with us--you lift with us), then you need to be fair with the baseball kids as well. To me, you're cutting your own throat here. On the subject of these sophomores who don't want him back--sophomores? Really? I might want to listen to my seniors and I may want to consider the feelings of the team as a whole, but what some sophomores want? No, I don't think so.
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Post by jgordon1 on Apr 12, 2013 6:24:50 GMT -6
Another point, IMO, is that in the end it is YOUR team..you might tell the kids that its their team but YOU create the culture, YOU set the expectations etc..No 16 year old kid is going to tell me who is on my team or not...its just like captains..they might have 51 votes but I have 52
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Post by coach2013 on Apr 12, 2013 6:27:52 GMT -6
Weight lifting is optional, so is playing time. Thats always in my mind. If two kids are close in ability, the kid whos put in the time gets the nod.
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 12, 2013 11:40:53 GMT -6
Put him last on the depth chart, make him earn his way up
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Post by shields on Apr 13, 2013 6:23:36 GMT -6
Airraider, I feel your pain brother. I scower the halls and visit every male in school during lunch recruiting kids for football. I take it personally when they won't even give football a try. However, I agree with all that's been said to this point--it's the offseason, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face." I want the weightroom overflowing with kids after school, we all do, but in the end, there are other sports going on and various other sundrys. Keep track of who has come and who has not and reward those who come. For those kids who didn't miss a session from January-March (our winter conditioning period), we bought Under Armor cold gear mock shirts and had their number and the weightlifting logo stitched on them. A small price to pay for the dedication of those kids. We will do the same thing for those kids who make 100% of our April-May workouts. Kids love free stuff and we love kids who work hard. There is nothing better than seeing a frosh work his fanny off in the off-season to the point the coaches are asking each other if it's possible for him to give the senior ahead of him a strong run for a starting spot on the varsity team. That's inspiring to me!
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 13, 2013 11:52:01 GMT -6
Similar issue
How do you guys feel about a kid quitting before the final game of the year as a Junior and then coming back out as a senior?
Our backup Qb through most of last year (also played a lot of WR, but wants to be the QB)
anyway he gets beat out by the 3rd stringer for our week 10 game... He had been slumping and getting worse, 3rd stringer looked better in all practices... (Starter was suspended for a game for being ejected so we knew one of the backups had to start the week 10 game)
He played the week 10 game, but was upset he got beat out and quit the following week (1st round of playoffs)
He wants to come out, has attended a little over half of our off season workouts... not the best attendance, but certainly not our worst... he will likely be able to get to his required point total to attend spring ball if he is solid during the month of April.
We decided to let him be on the team and compete (with that same 3rd stringer who beat him out last year) for the starting job...
Talented kid athletically, kind of scared to get hit, but fast/mobile, and he is without a doubt the most intelligent kid I have ever coached... he understands pass plays better than most of our staff... he just has trouble over thinking/analyzing and panicking
Just curious as to some people's thoughts, most of our staff (including HC which is really all that matters) agrees to let him out and see if he can earn it, a few guys think he is a quitter and a loser and we shouldnt even allow him to try out
I think he is a good kid who is going through a lot(got kicked out of his house mid season and has been living with cousins in town) and got upset and made a bad decision
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Post by fantom on Apr 13, 2013 11:59:32 GMT -6
Similar issue How do you guys feel about a kid quitting before the final game of the year as a Junior and then coming back out as a senior? Our backup Qb through most of last year (also played a lot of WR, but wants to be the QB) anyway he gets beat out by the 3rd stringer for our week 10 game... He had been slumping and getting worse, 3rd stringer looked better in all practices... (Starter was suspended for a game for being ejected so we knew one of the backups had to start the week 10 game) He played the week 10 game, but was upset he got beat out and quit the following week (1st round of playoffs) He wants to come out, has attended a little over half of our off season workouts... not the best attendance, but certainly not our worst... he will likely be able to get to his required point total to attend spring ball if he is solid during the month of April. We decided to let him be on the team and compete (with that same 3rd stringer who beat him out last year) for the starting job... Talented kid athletically, kind of scared to get hit, but fast/mobile, and he is without a doubt the most intelligent kid I have ever coached... he understands pass plays better than most of our staff... he just has trouble over thinking/analyzing and panicking Just curious as to some people's thoughts, most of our staff (including HC which is really all that matters) agrees to let him out and see if he can earn it, a few guys think he is a quitter and a loser and we shouldnt even allow him to try out I think he is a good kid who is going through a lot(got kicked out of his house mid season and has been living with cousins in town) and got upset and made a bad decision Why not? What do you have to lose? |
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Post by coach2013 on Apr 13, 2013 12:38:05 GMT -6
KIDS, LIKE COACHES, CAN GROW UP.
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Post by next on Apr 13, 2013 12:41:59 GMT -6
The think that we have to remember is that these are kids. We all do dumb things at that age and without any doubt in my mind this is the age to give 2nd and 3rd chances. Lots of thinkgs at home contribute to kids quitting... it's more than what just happens with football and school. Lots of pressures from many sources. My 2 cents... keep giving the kid a try. He may eventualy be a great contributor but will cost you very little if he doesn't.
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Post by newhope on Apr 15, 2013 7:34:50 GMT -6
Similar issue How do you guys feel about a kid quitting before the final game of the year as a Junior and then coming back out as a senior? Our backup Qb through most of last year (also played a lot of WR, but wants to be the QB) anyway he gets beat out by the 3rd stringer for our week 10 game... He had been slumping and getting worse, 3rd stringer looked better in all practices... (Starter was suspended for a game for being ejected so we knew one of the backups had to start the week 10 game) He played the week 10 game, but was upset he got beat out and quit the following week (1st round of playoffs) He wants to come out, has attended a little over half of our off season workouts... not the best attendance, but certainly not our worst... he will likely be able to get to his required point total to attend spring ball if he is solid during the month of April. We decided to let him be on the team and compete (with that same 3rd stringer who beat him out last year) for the starting job... Talented kid athletically, kind of scared to get hit, but fast/mobile, and he is without a doubt the most intelligent kid I have ever coached... he understands pass plays better than most of our staff... he just has trouble over thinking/analyzing and panicking Just curious as to some people's thoughts, most of our staff (including HC which is really all that matters) agrees to let him out and see if he can earn it, a few guys think he is a quitter and a loser and we shouldnt even allow him to try out I think he is a good kid who is going through a lot(got kicked out of his house mid season and has been living with cousins in town) and got upset and made a bad decision Why not? What do you have to lose? You let him come back out. Kids make kid mistakes. Sometimes they grow up. However, I wouldn't trust him or depend on him again. |
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Post by fantom on Apr 15, 2013 7:45:02 GMT -6
Why not? What do you have to lose? You let him come back out. Kids make kid mistakes. Sometimes they grow up. However, I wouldn't trust him or depend on him again. You definitely can't trust him. He definitely has to earn working up the depth chart. If he works his way into a starting job you have to have a contingency plan in case baseball calls again. |
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Post by holmesbend on Apr 15, 2013 8:44:51 GMT -6
We can't cut a kid in the off season even if you wanted to, but you said you're a private school so maybe you can. But I really don't think you should cut a kid for refusing to workout in the off season. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards Same here. I've kind of adopted the whole, "The offseason is optional, but so is your playing time." What happens? The ones that want to be good and will be actual contributing factors to our team, show up and get stuff done. Fortunately, we have in class weights (periods are an hour and 5 mins long....4 classes of it, ran by our S & C coach who is great if I don't mind saying myself. He is one of those weight room meat heads ya know? The type of guy that gets excited to do box squats as most of us would if we were going on vacation), so the majority of our kids are in those. I've been part of programs where the off season is made just like practice (miss and you sit game time), and done it like where I'm the HC now with the above philosophy. Know what I've found out? You end up having to shoot a few hostages every year, no matter what approach you take. To be honest, one of the reasons I got away from the whole "off season or else" deal is bc being at a rural school like ours, we just flat out don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's walking down the halls that some places have. Well, every year, it never fails that come July, we end up getting a couple of these basketball or baseball only kids who are good athletes and just overall good kids in general....they decide to finally give this football thing a try. So, how can I possibly let them come out (not having lifted a weight in 2-3 years) yet, punish the average athlete, football only kid who might have missed a few workouts from Jan-June?. Where I'm at right now...I can't take that approach. Matter of fact...had I taken that approach, our best player this year (who just signed a D1 basketball scholly) wouldn't have played. Great KID. Never missed a practice once he showed up in July after all of his basketball stuff was over. Ended up probably being our best leader. Went for a 1,000+ All-Purpose yards + 4 INT's + 2 K.Off returns for 6 and a Punt Return for the same. And, quite honestly, instead of us finishing 6-6 (2nd round of the playoffs), we finish 4-7 (1st round playoff exit) without him. His only fault? He liked being in the gym shooting instead of lifting weights. That was it. However, I will say that he has found out the importance of being in the weight room (as they all end up doing in time). Now...come July-1st of December? Different scenario. |
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Post by newhope on Apr 15, 2013 9:09:12 GMT -6
I had a kid a few years ago who was a pretty good kid. He didn't play a lot, but was a great scout teamer and got playing time whenever we could give it to him. Basically, near the end of his junior year, he let some malcontent get in his ear and talk him into quitting near the end of the season. He regretted it almost as soon as he did it.
He came to me in the offseason and wanted to come back for his senior year. I allowed him to. He wrote me not long ago, thanking me for letting him and telling me that quitting was the worst thing he'd ever done and that being allowed back was the best thing that had ever happened to hiim--and that he had learned a lot from the situation...both in terms of poor decision making and the value of forgiveness and second chances. It was a touching letter.
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Post by gatemouth on Apr 15, 2013 11:22:31 GMT -6
Airraider, for what its worth, as you know I used to work at one of yall's rival schools who has had some good success and they have had kids "quit" in the offseason and come back. I dont think you risk losing the whole team if you let him change his mind, as long as he does it quick and works his butt off when he comes back.
As for your other kids not liking him, well, that might be why he quit in the first place. But then again maybe not. If he's a lazy sucker and yall's summer schedule is demanding enough, you wont have to worry about him once the season gets here regardless.
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Apr 15, 2013 12:18:06 GMT -6
Spring time is a season of rebirth, growth, etc...
I know MANY kids who have grown up during the spring in time for summer and been great contributors...
I also feel that this especially true of sophomores - new realities kick in and they hit puberty part deux
Licenses, cars, driving, jobs, insurance, freedom and responsibility, etc...
Anyways - they freakin finally grow up a little...
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