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Post by fantom on Mar 16, 2013 9:02:16 GMT -6
One note is that this shouldn't be entirely a shock. I seem to remember you posting about going to Cal's practice before you went, and people talked about that you should feel free to take notes and learn but it would be another thing to put video on the internet. It's a discussion for another day, but it's one reason that the vast majority of things I write about and use images/diagrams/video for are from games, which is exactly what opponents have. (And coaches even get riled about *that* sometimes, which I can't agree with. If you ran some play on national TV it's fair game.) I get a lot more behind the scenes stuff than I put online but you have to use discretion with what you put online. For better or for worse all journalists will tell you this is the case. With the internet now it makes everyone a journalist. It's a complicated dance of wanting exposure, trust, competitive advantages, etc. What you have to realize is that these guys are conflicted on this -- they want exposure but want to control the message -- but you're conflicted too. Suddenly if you write about Cal's drills with video and diagrams everybody wants to read your stuff, but should you be sharing it? It's just how the world works. It's a balance. The bottom line to me is that when you're a guest at somebody's place you play by their rules.
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next
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Post by next on Mar 16, 2013 10:21:14 GMT -6
There are 2 sides to this....
1. Yes you are wrong no doubt about it in my book. If someone did that where I live they would be blackballed.
2. I can honestly say that I bought the TFS system precisely because of blogs such as brophy's, Chris's and your blog because of the concepts presented. What I would say to Tony is embrace the medium and maybe even submit guest articles from time to time because it can be a way to reach out and get new clients... it certainly worked in my case.
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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 16, 2013 10:26:44 GMT -6
This made my day. So, Bdud, when are you going to come clean that you are really a GA at Stanford?
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Post by coachplaa on Mar 16, 2013 10:33:11 GMT -6
I just don't want to see them react by closing practice. It's great to have Cal finally be so open.
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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 16, 2013 12:21:01 GMT -6
I just don't want to see them react by closing practice. It's great to have Cal finally be so open. If they do, that's pretty weak. I thought Bdud's posts were rather harmless. Maybe it has more to do with his business than his coaching job?
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 16, 2013 12:34:27 GMT -6
My answer here won't be popular, but if his main motivation was money...so be it. He has a product people are willing to pay for. If I had something that people were willing to pay top dollar for and part of this product got put on the internet for free, I'd probably be a little irked too. Only would make sense if the seller invented the product. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards
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Post by fantom on Mar 16, 2013 12:39:33 GMT -6
I just don't want to see them react by closing practice. It's great to have Cal finally be so open. If they do, that's pretty weak. I thought Bdud's posts were rather harmless. Maybe it has more to do with his business than his coaching job? What difference does it make? It's their practice. They can open them or close them. It's their decision. Evidently, they allowed filming with the idea that it was for personal use. They don't want the video posted online. That's their right.
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Post by brophy on Mar 16, 2013 13:56:18 GMT -6
My answer here won't be popular, but if his main motivation was money...so be it. He has a product people are willing to pay for. If I had something that people were willing to pay top dollar for and part of this product got put on the internet for free, I'd probably be a little irked too. Only would make sense if the seller invented the product. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards What would your thoughts be if this were USC or UCLA?
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 16, 2013 14:20:14 GMT -6
1. I felt the posts were harmless... No real insider/behind the scenes stuff... Nothing that most spread coaches haven't seen or used before
2. Both visits I saw multiple coaches filming practices
3. They've been pushing how they're now all access and open to public and Hs coaches
4. I respect them and that is why instantly removed both posts from my blog even though he only specifically asked that the second post be taken down
I meant the posts to be purely informational
I have a fear of being blackballed like someone mentioned
He mentioned in further email correspondence after I apologized to come introduce myself next time I visit... Part of me feels it's a trap and he is going to have the air raid secret service waiting to take me away to Guantanamo Bay
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Post by davishfc on Mar 16, 2013 14:33:56 GMT -6
I have a fear of being blackballed like someone mentioned There goes your shot at the college ranks...lol...jk. I wouldn't worry about it. Lesson learned. You took them down. Time to move on.
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Post by fantom on Mar 16, 2013 14:52:10 GMT -6
1. I felt the posts were harmless... No real insider/behind the scenes stuff... Nothing that most spread coaches haven't seen or used before 2. Both visits I saw multiple coaches filming practices 3. They've been pushing how they're now all access and open to public and Hs coaches 4. I respect them and that is why instantly removed both posts from my blog even though he only specifically asked that the second post be taken down I meant the posts to be purely informational I have a fear of being blackballed like someone mentioned He mentioned in further email correspondence after I apologized to come introduce myself next time I visit... Part of me feels it's a trap and he is going to have the air raid secret service waiting to take me away to Guantanamo Bay It's not really you that I've been talking about here. They asked you to take them down and you did. No problem. I'm really talking about the people who are indignant that they asked you to take them down.
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Post by spreadattack on Mar 16, 2013 14:58:11 GMT -6
The other interesting dynamic here is they open up practice but figure the average joe blow beat writer and blogger doesn't know a vertical set from a horizontal stretch, but don't count on a coach blog being able to size up and put what they do online pretty quickly and easily. It's a tricky situation. I think you handled it right. Remember, a lot of actual journalists will show coaches what they plan to publish and get approval before they do it. I don't necessarily agree with that but it's something that goes on.
Also, remember football coaches like to control things -- it's in the DNA -- and the media usually lets them. That's not necessarily the case in other fields. It is what it is. It raises interesting questions.
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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 16, 2013 15:07:31 GMT -6
If they do, that's pretty weak. I thought Bdud's posts were rather harmless. Maybe it has more to do with his business than his coaching job? What difference does it make? It's their practice. They can open them or close them. It's their decision. Evidently, they allowed filming with the idea that it was for personal use. They don't want the video posted online. That's their right. It doesn't, I was just throwing the "business" angle out there for discussion. I never said they don't have the right to do what they did, I just said it was weak because like many mentioned, the posts were harmless.
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Post by adawg2302 on Mar 16, 2013 18:02:27 GMT -6
I wonder if Franklin actually wrote the e-mail or if it was an unpaid GA?
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Post by eghscoach on Mar 16, 2013 21:23:09 GMT -6
FWIW - new staff @ Southern Miss is apparently opening practices but are telling people up front NO video recording devices, NO cell phones (which could be video recording devices), & NO notepads. You are seen with any of those you will be asked to leave. But they are upfront about it.
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Post by lochness on Mar 17, 2013 8:05:36 GMT -6
HEY!!! I saw that you used my idea about adapting spread concepts to 21 personnel offenses for a blog!! This is unacceptable, and I demand you take you post down immediately!!! To do otherwise would result in serious consequences for both you AND your family!!! ARARRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!
Haha! Good stuff coach! Thanks for putting that out there...I enjoyed reading it!
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 17, 2013 10:14:25 GMT -6
He mentioned in further email correspondence after I apologized to come introduce myself next time I visit... Part of me feels it's a trap and he is going to have the air raid secret service waiting to take me away to Guantanamo Bay No. They just stick you in a darkened shed in Lubbock Texas.
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Post by davishfc on Mar 17, 2013 10:58:37 GMT -6
FWIW - new staff @ Southern Miss is apparently opening practices but are telling people up front NO video recording devices, NO cell phones (which could be video recording devices), & NO notepads. You are seen with any of those you will be asked to leave. But they are upfront about it. Notepads. Like a pen and paper? Really. No note taking either. Huh?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2013 11:01:18 GMT -6
FWIW - new staff @ Southern Miss is apparently opening practices but are telling people up front NO video recording devices, NO cell phones (which could be video recording devices), & NO notepads. You are seen with any of those you will be asked to leave. But they are upfront about it. With all due respect that type of idiocy is just dumb. They are acting like norad without nearly the responsibility.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 17, 2013 11:04:46 GMT -6
FWIW - new staff @ Southern Miss is apparently opening practices but are telling people up front NO video recording devices, NO cell phones (which could be video recording devices), & NO notepads. You are seen with any of those you will be asked to leave. But they are upfront about it. Notepads. Like a pen and paper? Really. No note taking either. Huh? It's top secret. They're hoping to surprise Texas State to be able to have a chance against them Week 1.
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 17, 2013 12:05:30 GMT -6
FWIW - new staff @ Southern Miss is apparently opening practices but are telling people up front NO video recording devices, NO cell phones (which could be video recording devices), & NO notepads. You are seen with any of those you will be asked to leave. But they are upfront about it. Notepads. Like a pen and paper? Really. No note taking either. Huh? You're not allowed to be caught thinking super hard either... Just watch, not allowed to commit anything to your Long term memory Any one with a focused stare or look of concentration is excommunicated from the church of spread
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Post by davishfc on Mar 17, 2013 12:30:28 GMT -6
Notepads. Like a pen and paper? Really. No note taking either. Huh? You're not allowed to be caught thinking super hard either... Just watch, not allowed to commit anything to your Long term memory Any one with a focused stare or look of concentration is excommunicated from the church of spread Sounds like a simple rule we all understand that colleges are now applying to their spring practices...
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Post by RENO6 on Mar 17, 2013 16:42:35 GMT -6
I think the elephant in the room is the fact that we all coach because of how much we love this game.. I think a lot of times we wish we would of Trademarked ideas and sold them. Tony Franklin is not only doing what he wants for a living but he is getting paid a lot of money to do so. He is not all that different from anyone else we pay for their knowledge. We don't blast Dub Maddox or Darin Slack because their words and motives are not out for $( I pray).
I know other coaches who have bought TF's system and they have told me they can not share any info because they have signed a contract that says they will not do so.
We are in a Facebook/Tweeter/Blog age where we like to be validated for our ideas on the internet. So, the reality is that we are not all that much different from each other. The difference is some of us have $ on the mind, and some of us have validity on the mind.
As football coaches, it's great to know we can share with each other to do what we love for a living and teach kids to be great men and leave our mark. I think if we keep that as our main goal then nothing else matters.
I agree TF made a mistake but lets leave it alone.
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Post by fantom on Mar 17, 2013 17:02:36 GMT -6
I think the elephant in the room is the fact that we all coach because of how much we love this game.. I think a lot of times we wish we would of Trademarked ideas and sold them. Tony Franklin is not only doing what he wants for a living but he is getting paid a lot of money to do so. He is not all that different from anyone else we pay for their knowledge. We don't blast Dub Maddox or Darin Slack because their words and motives are not out for $( I pray). I know other coaches who have bought TF's system and they have told me they can not share any info because they have signed a contract that says they will not do so. We are in a Facebook/Tweeter/Blog age where we like to be validated for our ideas on the internet. So, the reality is that we are not all that much different from each other. The difference is some of us have $ on the mind, and some of us have validity on the mind. As football coaches, it's great to know we can share with each other to do what we love for a living and teach kids to be great men and leave our mark. I think if we keep that as our main goal then nothing else matters. I agree TF made a mistake but lets leave it alone. I disagree that TF made a mistake and maybe that's because I disagree with you about the internet culture. I believe that, like people in other walks of life, many coaches are so used to finding info for free on the internet that they feel entitled to it. Really, it's no different from kids who think that the should have the right to download any music or movies that they want for free.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 17, 2013 17:39:10 GMT -6
I think the elephant in the room is the fact that we all coach because of how much we love this game.. I think a lot of times we wish we would of Trademarked ideas and sold them. Tony Franklin is not only doing what he wants for a living but he is getting paid a lot of money to do so. He is not all that different from anyone else we pay for their knowledge. We don't blast Dub Maddox or Darin Slack because their words and motives are not out for $( I pray). I know other coaches who have bought TF's system and they have told me they can not share any info because they have signed a contract that says they will not do so. We are in a Facebook/Tweeter/Blog age where we like to be validated for our ideas on the internet. So, the reality is that we are not all that much different from each other. The difference is some of us have $ on the mind, and some of us have validity on the mind. As football coaches, it's great to know we can share with each other to do what we love for a living and teach kids to be great men and leave our mark. I think if we keep that as our main goal then nothing else matters. I agree TF made a mistake but lets leave it alone. I disagree that TF made a mistake and maybe that's because I disagree with you about the internet culture. I believe that, like people in other walks of life, many coaches are so used to finding info for free on the internet that they feel entitled to it. Really, it's no different from kids who think that the should have the right to download any music or movies that they want for free. I believe the "truth" (to get all philosophical) lies somewhere inbetween the points presented here. I really don't truly believe it is a pure money thing. May be wrong about that, but I don't think the "system" is netting him the income that he would make as a top SEC coordinator. Now, his head coach is making reportedly 1.94 million...so I would bet he would be making at least 700,000. I believe it is more of a control thing. As fantom mentions, there is a desire to maintain control, and the "entitled to free" internet culture directly clashes with that. I had a female friend who did some fully dressed but somewhat risque modeling for a website in the late 90's early 2000's. As a woman in her mid 30's now, with hindsight to as how the internet has developed, it is something she regrets a bit because she has no control over the images, and one can find some of them pretty quickly online.
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Post by fantom on Mar 17, 2013 17:45:58 GMT -6
I disagree that TF made a mistake and maybe that's because I disagree with you about the internet culture. I believe that, like people in other walks of life, many coaches are so used to finding info for free on the internet that they feel entitled to it. Really, it's no different from kids who think that the should have the right to download any music or movies that they want for free. I believe the "truth" (to get all philosophical) lies somewhere inbetween the points presented here. I really don't truly believe it is a pure money thing. May be wrong about that, but I don't think the "system" is netting him the income that he would make as a top SEC coordinator. Now, his head coach is making reportedly 1.94 million...so I would bet he would be making at least 700,000. I believe it is more of a control thing. As fantom mentions, there is a desire to maintain control, and the "entitled to free" internet culture directly clashes with that. I had a female friend who did some fully dressed but somewhat risque modeling for a website in the late 90's early 2000's. As a woman in her mid 30's now, with hindsight to as how the internet has developed, it is something she regrets a bit because she has no control over the images, and one can find some of them pretty quickly online. No link?
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 17, 2013 17:49:06 GMT -6
I believe the "truth" (to get all philosophical) lies somewhere inbetween the points presented here. I really don't truly believe it is a pure money thing. May be wrong about that, but I don't think the "system" is netting him the income that he would make as a top SEC coordinator. Now, his head coach is making reportedly 1.94 million...so I would bet he would be making at least 700,000. I believe it is more of a control thing. As fantom mentions, there is a desire to maintain control, and the "entitled to free" internet culture directly clashes with that. I had a female friend who did some fully dressed but somewhat risque modeling for a website in the late 90's early 2000's. As a woman in her mid 30's now, with hindsight to as how the internet has developed, it is something she regrets a bit because she has no control over the images, and one can find some of them pretty quickly online. No link? Didn't want to put you in the ethical quandary of freely viewing materials that were meant to be paid for
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Post by fantom on Mar 17, 2013 17:50:47 GMT -6
Didn't want to put you in the ethical quandary of freely viewing materials that were meant to be paid for Freakin' Nanny state.
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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 17, 2013 18:01:31 GMT -6
At least provide a name, so we can search for it ourselves. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2013 18:25:37 GMT -6
Didn't want to put you in the ethical quandary of freely viewing materials that were meant to be paid for Freakin' Nanny state. we are already their.
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