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Post by maxotis on Jan 28, 2013 1:20:52 GMT -6
Ok, basically the short version of this is that I would like to one day coach/work in the game side of football but I basically have a madden players understanding of x's and o's. Ive read Smart Football and looked at the Alex Gibbs videos and learned a lot but honestly I'm probably only absorbing 25-50% of the content because I lack a solid knowledge foundation. So basically, what I'm asking is how should someone trying to learn the x's and o's go about it? Should I try to read as much as I can about some specific offense and then work through them? Should I try to learn everything I can about the run game, then run defense, then...? Are there beginners books/articles/websites I should read to give myself a basic understanding and terminology? Then what? The good news is I did volunteer for a high school team last year so I have the coach as a resource. Anyway maybe this thread could be turned into like, a beginners guide to going about learning the game?
Thanks,
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Post by coach2013 on Jan 28, 2013 3:42:27 GMT -6
Books-
AFCA Coaching Bible There are several books on offense There are several books on defense There are several books on special teams
Position specific videos/dvds Scheme specific videos/dvds
youtube- pick through the good and bad...
watch the game, slow motion, rewind,break it down...
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Post by pirates2012 on Jan 28, 2013 6:08:28 GMT -6
Ok, basically the short version of this is that I would like to one day coach/work in the game side of football but I basically have a madden players understanding of x's and o's. Ive read Smart Football and looked at the Alex Gibbs videos and learned a lot but honestly I'm probably only absorbing 25-50% of the content because I lack a solid knowledge foundation. So basically, what I'm asking is how should someone trying to learn the x's and o's go about it? Should I try to read as much as I can about some specific offense and then work through them? Should I try to learn everything I can about the run game, then run defense, then...? Are there beginners books/articles/websites I should read to give myself a basic understanding and terminology? Then what? The good news is I did volunteer for a high school team last year so I have the coach as a resource. Anyway maybe this thread could be turned into like, a beginners guide to going about learning the game? Thanks, there are great books and videos galore on various offenses, defenses, etc. As Coach mentioned, AFCA coaching bible, etc... but to me best way to learn is by talking/working with others. If you know anyone who is a coach, etc, or if there's a HS program you can volunteer at, etc, that would be the best way, to me. I remember when I was first starting in coaching I watched you tube and read books and thought I had a good idea of what was up and what was down... but if thats all you do then you're kind of just teaching yourself. And while that worked to a point for me, having others point things out and explain them and the how-why of certain situations is invaluable to ones understanding when trying to improve my own understanding of football. So while its certainly great to read and watch I think at some point trying to pick the brain or finding a program that you can integrate yourself into is an important step
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Post by julien on Jan 28, 2013 6:16:57 GMT -6
Stay around here. Start with the first threads... Ask specific questions. Buy books and dvds. Stay around HS coaches you work with.
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Post by newt21 on Jan 28, 2013 10:04:17 GMT -6
The biggest thing that helped me out wasn't the "how" but the "why". When you understand why something is done a certain way, you'll remember it and be able to utilize it better. After you understand the why of the schemes, you can focus on the how.
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Post by dubber on Jan 28, 2013 10:43:31 GMT -6
I STRONGLY suggest you start by studying DEFENSE.
Defensive alignment and technique is designed to stop offensive threats, and by understanding HOW defenses react, you'll understand more about how the game functions.
Also, offensive line play will give you a better insight into the game than studying the passing game.
Any volunteer opportunities possible?
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Post by maxotis on Jan 28, 2013 11:08:57 GMT -6
Thanks for all the responses everyone! I should have found this site a long time ago...Last season I volunteered with a high school team and kept the stats basically. I also went to every practice and talked to coaches etc. So going forward that opportunity is available to me for as long as I want it. I will probably be in college for two more football seasons, so thats probably my plan. Im on great terms with the coaching staff and as the head coach is also the head of athletics at the school I can go there whenever I want during the week and ask questions etc. They run a triple-option offense, so maybe I should study that first?
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Post by carookie on Jan 28, 2013 12:00:33 GMT -6
Moreso than learning X & Os I would try to learn technique. Start with whatever system the guys you work with run and learn all the fundamentals. Also, and this is big, spend as much time with them in the offseason weight room and track. Maybe you already know a lot about weight training and speed and agility work, if not then you need to; and even if you do it will show that you are dedicated.
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Post by pirates2012 on Jan 28, 2013 16:44:13 GMT -6
Thanks for all the responses everyone! I should have found this site a long time ago...Last season I volunteered with a high school team and kept the stats basically. I also went to every practice and talked to coaches etc. So going forward that opportunity is available to me for as long as I want it. I will probably be in college for two more football seasons, so thats probably my plan. Im on great terms with the coaching staff and as the head coach is also the head of athletics at the school I can go there whenever I want during the week and ask questions etc. They run a triple-option offense, so maybe I should study that first? First, I would say that I would try to do a little thinking as to what you might want to learn. Obviously the program there running the triple learning that makes sense. But in general I'd advise against thinking that your forced to learn something. At some point in your career, etc, make sure it comes to something you think you want to run. See if you can sit in on meetings, etc or just talk to those guys too. You can never talk to enough people and they can help with the why instead of just the how as you get started. With spring football coming up if your schedule allows you you might even be able to volunteer / film or do something for that.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 28, 2013 19:07:32 GMT -6
I STRONGLY suggest you start by studying DEFENSE.
Defensive alignment and technique is designed to stop offensive threats, and by understanding HOW defenses react, you'll understand more about how the game functions.
Also, offensive line play will give you a better insight into the game than studying the passing game.
Any volunteer opportunities possible?
I would start with offense. If you don't know what a kickout is, how lost are you going to be when they start talking about spilling the pulling guard and flowing overtop with cloud force?
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 28, 2013 19:50:44 GMT -6
Madden understanding? Many people think they are good to go then.
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Post by 42falcon on Jan 28, 2013 20:41:26 GMT -6
OK my starting point might be more simplistic than the rest but hey what the heck isn't this why we have a forum!
My suggestion: start with learning to coach a position group. I would say that my best year as a DC was my first because I coached the things I knew really well not what was cool or I liked but what I knew because I was so bloody scared to screw up I dare not deviate. My worst year as a DC was when I started to attend clinics and actually was my first year on this board (damn Huey). The reason being was I started to get a little bit of knowledge on a whole bunch of things and then tried to implement all that without a true understanding of how all the pieces fit together.
Finally near 10 years later since my first time being a DC I am understanding the little things that each position needs to to do so that the whole can be successful, and the things I want to do / things we as a team need to do we can do. Here's to a better 2013.
We don't know that much about you so.. 1) what is your background? -have you ever played before? -if so what level / position?
If you have played before start there at that position learn as much as you can about the fundamentals of it then graduate to understanding what that positions role in the whole is.
If you have never played then start with a position of interest / place of need on your teams staff. Get paired up with another coach with more experience and learn.
I just think trying to learn about the game by checking into systems makes 0 sense unless you either: a) aspire to be an OC/DC/HC then you still need to understand what the pieces need to do in order for the whole to work b) you are just interested and have loads of time on your hands (if so all the power to ya).
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Post by maxotis on Jan 29, 2013 0:50:03 GMT -6
Falcon, I appreciate your suggestion. Answering question 1) I played hockey at an elite level but I've never played football. I do want to one day be a coach. The team I work with now only has a quarterbacks coach come to one practice a week and I am friends with that coach. Other positions have someone every day. My impression from the past season is that the quarterback position is somewhat under-coached (I don't think we necessarily have progressions in place for every pass play). On the other hand wanting to start with helping coach the quarterbacks sort of reeks of hubris and I really don't want to create that impression, either on this board or in my job.
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Post by pirates2012 on Jan 29, 2013 8:17:53 GMT -6
Madden understanding? Many people think they are good to go then. true enough. I had a kid come in the office and we talked and he drew up a play and asked why it wouldn't work because it worked on Madden and NCAA football 2013...
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 29, 2013 8:38:13 GMT -6
Madden understanding? Many people think they are good to go then. true enough. I had a kid come in the office and we talked and he drew up a play and asked why it wouldn't work because it worked on Madden and NCAA football 2013...
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Post by rsmith627 on Jan 29, 2013 8:39:56 GMT -6
Sorry, apparently I don't understand quoting on here anymore. I'll have to look at it later when I have time.
Anyway, not to get away from the original question, but usually it's players who think their Madden knowledge can give them good input into the game.
What is scary is I have actually seen coaches who think this way too. Come on man.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 29, 2013 8:58:36 GMT -6
When you quote someone you have to type in a box that's the same colour as the background. Little flaw in the colour scheme I guess.
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Post by dubber on Jan 29, 2013 19:26:13 GMT -6
I STRONGLY suggest you start by studying DEFENSE.
Defensive alignment and technique is designed to stop offensive threats, and by understanding HOW defenses react, you'll understand more about how the game functions.
Also, offensive line play will give you a better insight into the game than studying the passing game.
Any volunteer opportunities possible?
I would start with offense. If you don't know what a kickout is, how lost are you going to be when they start talking about spilling the pulling guard and flowing overtop with cloud force? Couldn't I conversely argue that if you don't know what the curl flat defender is, how lost are you going to be when they start talking about looking to rhythm throw the fade before working the color flash on the Y-sail vertical stretch? I say start with defense to understand alignment, assignment, and the WHY's behind it.......offensive football is about outnumbering and creating space, while defensive football is about matching numbers and containment. I just think you can understand this (and HOW to break it) more clearly if you start by understanding defensive structure/philosophy. The A-11 was a terrible idea not just because it was a loophole, or its creator was a snake oil saleman.......it was a terrible offense because it was predicated SOLELY on confusion/gimmick. Truly great offensive innovations are predicated on understanding defenses, how they thing, what they do, how they do it, etc. For those of us who are NOT Pop Warners, Darrell Royales, Sid Gillmans, Glenn Ellisons, Hal Mumme/Mike Leachs, Urban Meyers, etc..........going through this exercise helps us to OWN how we attack defenses (and conversely, how to defend against such attacks). Otherwise, Y-Sail is just a play.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 29, 2013 23:36:53 GMT -6
It seems we have a zen riddle.
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rids
Freshmen Member
[F4:RidleyScouting]
Posts: 17
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Post by rids on Jan 30, 2013 7:52:53 GMT -6
Terms of course can be so coach specific as well so perhaps to save the confusion we should drop that part of it and go back to the x's and o's.
I would agree that learning defense is an easier place to start. It's alignments, learning what was invented to stop what types of offense and building from there. Once a coach is comfortable and grounded they'll likely start to see the holes in the defense and recognize where the offense needs to attack.
How many of us have been talking to a coach and could tell which conference either they or their head coach had attended based on the key words they used in their descriptions of a play? Attending conferences outside your local region is a great way to introduce new terms to your playbook.
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Post by 42falcon on Jan 30, 2013 9:17:27 GMT -6
Falcon, I appreciate your suggestion. Answering question 1) I played hockey at an elite level but I've never played football. I do want to one day be a coach. The team I work with now only has a quarterbacks coach come to one practice a week and I am friends with that coach. Other positions have someone every day. My impression from the past season is that the quarterback position is somewhat under-coached (I don't think we necessarily have progressions in place for every pass play). On the other hand wanting to start with helping coach the quarterbacks sort of reeks of hubris and I really don't want to create that impression, either on this board or in my job. Ok so the easiest thing here to do would be to identify a position group (seems like you have) and approach the position coach / HC/ OC in your case and say I'd like to help out here to run the drills when my buddy isn't there. Then you go out and work with your OC around what he wants to see. Ultimately you will be working on things like: -footwork -throwing mechanics Reads / Progressions -you wouldn't determine this any way the HC/OC will do that and then filter it down through you. So it comes back to the age old shake down: coaching is teaching. So if you can get your hands on some basic material you understand when it comes to footwork, drills mechanics you can work with the QB. When it comes to the reads/progressions learn from your OC, so that you can then teach it. Again just my 2 cents. I guess this means you would be starting with offense (hahaha).
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20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by 20x on Jan 30, 2013 19:51:27 GMT -6
When I first started ten year ago I was looking for resources and anything I could get my hands on. Bought a ton of books and videos, but I think the best thing I did was join Bill Williams FCPGA and just start watching as many videos as I could. Pick the topic/scheme/position group and go to town. I really feel that I made up a lot ground quickly.
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