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Post by pirate1590 on Jan 27, 2013 17:38:33 GMT -6
I am going to be coaching 8-10 year olds next year. I have devised my own system to run offensively. I have 10 years experience coaching but only 4 at youth level. Have never coached this age group. We take a lot of what Dave Cisar runs practice wise and with the no huddle offense, just with a different system. Lot of same concepts and ideas trying to make.
1. Power(15 times a game)
2. Trap(6 times a game)
3. FB Dive(Wedge) (5x a game)
3. Toss Sweep(4x)
4. Counter(5x)
5. Slants(1-2 times)
6. Slant Wheel(1-2 times)
7. Bubble Screen(2-3 times)
8. Power Pass(1-2 times)
9. Bootleg(2-3 times)
10. Verts( once)
11. Kansas (rollout, out and clear) (1-2 times)
12. Double Dive(5x)
13. Iso(5x)
14. no play
Formations.
Flanker (base I)
Twins
Trojan(double Tes one side, X split opposite)
Spread(2x2)
We have a Jet Series that we will install if they get it. Adjustments are Nasty and Tackle Over. Want to throw the ball about eight times a game so the kids get a feel for throwing and catching. Do you think the kids would be overloaded with this
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 27, 2013 18:19:47 GMT -6
Run game looks good. That's a lot of passes. Are they all necessary?
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Post by pirate1590 on Jan 27, 2013 19:57:02 GMT -6
Yeah. I mean bubble screen I count as a run, it should be pretty simple for the kids to execute. The only real play Im worried about is our power passes and bootlegs because we have 4 recievers in a pattern in power pass and idk if we can protect with that. The kid who will probably play QB has a pretty good arm and we have 1 kid who can catch really well and one that is servicable. So I want to take advantage of that, dont know about the rest of the skill positions but I want to utilize the passing game to an degree. Im more concerned about pass protection. Would you change anything? I want to be as efficient throwing the ball as possible, and with Cisar's stuff we know we can run the ball well. We are a I team but we will use all his principles and drills and adapt them to our style of offense.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 27, 2013 22:45:00 GMT -6
Bubble is a trickier completion than you might think, and they'll double up on your best receiver if you don't have other credible threats. Practicing verts to run it once a game seems like a complete waste, and there was a lengthy discussion a while back where the consensus was that very few kids at that age can throw an accurate ball 35-odd yards on a good line to run verts effectively, as well as needing at least two good receivers that can run and catch. I think that's an easy one to scrap. If you want to beat C3 there's a lot of easier options.
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Post by pirate1590 on Jan 28, 2013 9:58:36 GMT -6
What would be an easier pass pattern to beat CIII? We would run verts with the X taking an immediate outside step and running up the sideline. In Twins the Z runs a seam route, looks for the ball after 5-7 yards. In flanker its the same as the route the X is running. in 2x2 its the same as twins. QB is on a 3 step drop. Should be about a 15-20 yard throw. Didnt think it would be waste. We only do 3 step, no 5. I would drop it but I need a pass that can get downfield. Power Pass really cant get downfield if we need a big passing play bc there is no threat for a run on 3rd and 15. Know at times it works in spite of itself. But thats why its in there, thoughts?
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 28, 2013 12:05:59 GMT -6
Flood is a way easier installation and you only need one deep ball receiver, the other guys just need to catch a gentle lob. It beats just about every coverage you'll see. Verts just gets so gummed up in youth; you don't get good reactions from safeties because they're usually good athletes poorly coached, but they have the speed to cover a lot of ground. The outside throws are a lot farther than it seems because they have to reach the sidelines. Specifically against C3 curl/flat is an easy read and throw. Can you combine Flood, Kansas and Power Pass? They're similar enough (I'm assuming about your Power Pass) to be stressing the defence in the same way, so I don't see the need to make it different for your guys.
Also, more Slants, less Slant-Wheel. Esp. at youth level, they're no going to get familiar with a concept and get complacent that quickly that you can run it in equal measure.
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Post by coachrobpsl on Jan 29, 2013 18:42:31 GMT -6
I think the run game is fine but double dive might be a very expensive install. I think you can absolutely run it and I think it would be effective, especially the keep once it is set up. But will it be set up running it 5 times a game? Do you plan on moving up with team and running midline or veer in the future? Bubble screen is not as easy as you may think at that age group. Pick six if you're not careful. Slant is probably the easiest pass to complete at that age level. Verts is fine if you have the better athletes and in youth the corners are often not great athletes. But youth qbs tend to throw up ducks. I would expect to see almost 100% m2m. We have been very successful with te seams in youth off of pap(which imo most of your passing game should be pap). Very easy to get young backers to bite on pap.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 29, 2013 23:05:37 GMT -6
Double TE seam off pap, run a "2 verts" concept.
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Post by coachdoug on Jan 31, 2013 8:00:54 GMT -6
I think it's too much for that age level. You list 7 or 8 plays that you intend to run 3 times or less per game. That's an awful lot of practice time for very little return. I would dump the following from your list: - Either Slants or Slant/Wheel - you don't need both. - Replace Bubble with Smoke - MUCH easier for kids that age. - Get rid of at least one (probably two) of Power Pass, Bootleg, Verts and Kansas. You don't need cover beaters at that age level - you need simple play action and to attack different areas, mostly the flat and one that goes deep. Keep it simple. - Double Dive - as someone else pointed out, it's a very expensive install. If you're going to run Double Dive or any type of option, you should go all in and make it the focus of your offense. There is no point in "dabbling" with it with this age group. - Iso - I don't think you really get much from Iso at this age level that you don't get from Power. I also think that is a lot of formations for that age level. I coach 8th graders, and we use 4 formations, but they're all really just variations of our base 2x2 spread, so it's really just one formation. For 8-10 yr olds, one or two formations with some adjustments tags is more than enough. Finally, I think your estimates of how many times you'll run each play need to be reviewed - if you add what you listed, you expect to get off 55-60 offensive plays per game. That is EXTREMELY unlikely at that age. The average 8-10 yr old game has about 35-40 offensive snaps per team (maybe less - most of my experience of 20 yrs is with older kids). Yes, you'll get a few more if you're no huddle, but the other team will likely slow down in response and I've never seen officials consistently enforce the 25 second clock at that level. If you do well and blow teams out, you'll be in a running clock situation too often to get in that number of plays - if you don't do so well, you won't hold on to the ball and get enough first downs to get that number of plays - if the other team plays slow, you won't have any chance. For planning purposes, expect to get 40 snaps per game (45 per game at the absolute most, but 35 would make more sense - it's easier to add to your plan than to take away). JMHO. |
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Post by pirate1590 on Jan 31, 2013 19:29:41 GMT -6
Thank you for your input everyone! We have 10 min quarters and we run the no huddle. I wouldnt say 55 would happen every game but I think we can break 50 most games. Thats our goal at least. We are very up tempo(like I said a Cisar SW style team but in the I). I decided to dump Bootleg because its the same concept as Power Pass, and Iso because its the exact same thing as DD. And in response to you guys, the way we are running the DD the QB doesnt read, he automatically gives to the TB following the FB(No Read). We will add the keep on when the kids are older, this QB is an okay athlete but not the fastest. That gives us
1. Power
2. Toss
3. Trap
4. Counter
5. FB Dive
6. Double Dive
7. Smoke Screen
8. Slant Wheel
9. Slants
10. Verts
11. Power Pass
12. Kansas
13. all curls(easier comp IMO than bootleg).
I am keeping Verts because we need a deep threat passing play, and Kansas because it is a simple pitch and catch, only a 5-7 yard throw. Kansas we have to keep, it is a staple of our passing game, and plus we can install Kansas Up (Double move) and run it as a twist later in the season.
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Post by coachrobpsl on Feb 1, 2013 16:29:14 GMT -6
I didn't think dd was a read. If it is a read isn't it just really midline/veer. I may be wrong on this.You can do away with fb dive if you just call fb dive from dd. I would suggest that if you know how to install wedge give it a shot. I watched a team in the Pop Warner national finals dominate with wedge and our teams have won a game or 2 running a bunch of wedge.
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Post by coachseth on Feb 2, 2013 4:31:20 GMT -6
I refer to the K.I.S.S manual when it comes to a system.
Plays are expensive, formations are cheap...however, at that age it's all expensive.
I won a championship with 11-13 year olds, and we had two formations with all of 18 plays. And truth be told, half of those plays were just the same plays to the opposite side.
Thing you gotta remember about youth football, you're getting very limited time with the kids. If you were getting five days a week with the kids, I'd tell you to go out and do what you do. But with 2-3 days a week, you gotta play it smart. Let me give you a small breakdown of what I liked, hated, and was indifferent on.
Loved:
-Power, always a bread and butter play and always will be, enough said.
-Toss Sweep, if blocked right, the hardest play to defend in youth football is a sweep.
-Counter, it's married to Power, gotta have it.
-Dive, an important running play in it's own way.
Hated:
-Slants, too many what ifs for slants, even if you get a good pass off the odds of it being caught are slim.
-Slant Wheel, way too complicated for this age.
-Verts, I know freshman teams that don't run this at this age.
-Kansas, again too complicated for this age group.
-Double Dive, never a fan of the double dive, takes too long to set up.
-Iso, while I admire Iso as a play, there isn't much difference between it and Dive, with exception of the blocking.
-Trap, you're already gonna have a hard time with the pulling guards on power and counter, I'd imagine trapping will suck worse.
Indifferent:
-Bootleg, if done right could work, if done wrong could hurt.
-Bubble Screen, it's okay to get athletes in space, but if they drop the ball be advised it CAN be a fumble.
-Power Pass, I am indifferent just because you're only running it twice a game...bad move for a run heavy team.
Wish I saw more of:
-Blast, Power is to Counter as Dive is to Blast, granted it's just another hole to run though but it's still a hole that will be open when you run enough Dive and Power.
-Play action, as a run first team, you need this.
-Read option, it sounds crazy, but if you tell the QB when to keep and when to give it works.
YOU HAVE GOT TO GET YOU QB INVOLVED IN RUNNING THE BALL! You QB is more than likely your best athlete, and your C is more than likely your best lineman, use them wisely.
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