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Post by coachmacplains on Oct 11, 2006 11:34:06 GMT -6
There may be different philosophies about what makes for a successful program, but if it is the understanding that the varsity head coach makes the call on systems to be used at the sub-varsity level, and everyone knows it, there can be no justification for violating that. One may question what the varsity coach is doing until the cows come home, but he's the guy that faces the fire and runs interference when criticism comes (if he doesn't, he probably shouldn't be head coach.) This doesn't mean he always makes the best decisions or doesn't make mistakes. I relate very much to juice's situation; for others to take the countless hours in preparing a system and dumping it is wrong. Now, I think one of the greatest challenges of being a head coach is guiding and helping to bring out the strengths of coaches under them.
I've seen this from both sides in various sports, but you must allow the head man to do his job, and if you think he needs a talking to, do it in the proper context and respect for his position. Not seeing eye to eye on certain things does not justify insubordination. That may sound like a strong word, but I don't know what else you would call it.
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juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200 
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Post by juice10 on Oct 12, 2006 7:42:31 GMT -6
Coaches thanks for all of your input, it was definately nice to see an array of comments, some that I agreed with and others that I could see your points of view, but wasn't my style.
The reason this upset me so much, is the fact that I am trying my hardest to turn a program around here. In the last 20 years, I haven't been here that long, we have not been very successful in football. This all includes wins/losses, kids not coming out, kids quitting, coaches at each others throats, etc. My concern for the coaches is to give the kids consistency, which they have not had here in a very long time. IF the coaches don't attempt to buy into a system, offense, defense, and ST, then how are the kids going to buy into the system.
I am at a very small school, where I don't have the luxury to really choose my coaching staff. The school hires teachers and the teachers apply to coach. The problems came from a guy who comes from the "old school" days of coaching ( I am not saying that is a bad thing). He is a yeller and a screamer, and if you don't play smash mouth football (power I, Wishbone) your offense isn't any good. What he doesn't understand is the "BIG" picture. He is all about the wins and the losses, and not so much about the techniques. Do I think that it is not important to preach winning? NO! I don't want that to be the only thing taught at the JV level.
Enough ramblings. I did sit down with all of my staff last night and reiterated the philosophy and the direction that this football team needs to go. I think it went fine and hope to see some positive changes here in the last couple of weeks.
Juice10
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2006 5:47:33 GMT -6
I think there is value on both sides of this coin. Firstly to blame a lack of fundamentals that kids come in with for a programs problems as someone suggested is very weak, an excuse. A good coach can teach fundamentals to 9th graders with the 5 days a week practice schedule HS teams have. By the time they are Sophs or Juniors they have had plenty of time to become football players, if not the coaching may be weak.
As to running the same system I think if you run veer, the JV better run veer and know the base plays you run 80% of the time.They better be good at IV, OV etc etc. If the varsity needs a player the JV kid better know your plays and nomeclature and be able to fit in right now.
However, if after that base is in and being well run. if that coach has a 3-4 play series that he is in love with and wants to add later in the year after his kids have perfected the base, give him that freedom.
As to JV or Frosh games meaning nothing, a scrimmage? The kids on that team care, the parents care, as a former player for a program that had 200+ kids playing football, we cared. As a Soph on the JV. We were 8-0 going into our last game vs another 8-0 team and we had a HUGE crowd there, it was a big game to us, our parents and all the spectators. In college my first year I played Frosh ball, we were DII, we played a DI Frosh team , we played to win and got a big thrill when we won it. For the kids that never get a chance to play varsity, they care. For the varsity coaches they cared too, we developed a winning attitude and tradition throughout the entire program. Look at the best HS programs in the country and look at the records of their Frosh and JV teams. Do they develop the kids and make sure playing time is a priority ? YEs, but they win too. BTW most Frosh and JV teams are Frosh vs Frosh and the rest vs the rest.
Those varsity coaches that blame Frosh, JV or Youth coaches for their own problems should maybe revisit their own coaching prowess IMHO. But this guys situation is clear cut the JV has to run the varsity stuff.
WHy in the heck would a varsity coach send a player down from Varsity to play in a "practice"? He wouldnt he would send him down to get GAME experience. The key word here is GAME where the score is being kept and strategies and counter strategies to WIN the game are in place. The key here is competition. At the HS clinics Ive gone to the top coaches nearly always stress competition. No mattter of it is a drill, a sprint, weights, they want their kids to compete at everything they do, not play around in a practice 'scrimmage". Winning is a habit the teams that win KNOW they are going to win before they get on the field. If they get behind they have that confidence that somehow someway they are going to to win the game. It comes from experience not going 2-7 every year as a Frosh and JV then expecting yeah now that Im on varsity Im all of a sudden going to be on a winning team LOL, OKAAY. If youve ever been part of a dynasty like program or a perrennial loser, you know what Im saying. The same is true for the losing programs. Even if they get ahead of that dynasty program, in the back of the players head and in the heads of ever fan in the stadium they are thinking " I wonder how we are going to blow this one". The other guys are thinking, gee I know we are going to win, just wonder how.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 13, 2006 5:56:49 GMT -6
our high school is 6-0 for the first time since 1966. the seniors played in a single wing offense as 8th graders (btw, they were undefeated that year)...what they learned as 8th graders prepared them for high school football...what did they learn?
1) how to play as a team
2) how to win
3) hard work equals positive results
4) tackling, blocking, hard running
5) love of the game
6) sportsmanship
7) honesty, loyalty, respect
8) priorities (faith, family, school, football)
9) basic rules and strategies, terminology
10) smashmouth football.
so, to those that think "it hurts" kids if you run a different system...Its not that simple. does it "help" to use the same terminology...of course. we use the core terminology that our varsity uses...many of the kids wont play the same positions from 8th grade thru their senior years though. also some will drop out, others will blossom...many variables along the way. i think a great football coach can let his coaches coach and have some room to create and put their stamp on things (afterall, thats fun isnt it?)...too often a losing varsity staff points only to their more successful frosh or jv teams placing blame where it doesnt belong.
btw, another school i know of has their jr high running the same stuff...the jr high wins, the varsity has lost 11 of last 12 i think. what someone needs to look at is why the kids play hard for the jr high staff but quit and dont want to play for the varsity staff...what happens along the way there?
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2006 6:33:49 GMT -6
Too much excuse making is the norm.
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wddjr5
Probationary Member
Posts: 8
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Post by wddjr5 on Oct 13, 2006 6:49:23 GMT -6
I got my first HS assistant job because the guy I was hired to replace was running his own stuff in JV games. He had a completely different system. It never occurred to me that I should or could deviate. I work for the head coach. If I have something that I like and believe will work for us I'll bring it up. It then is the HC's call as to whether or not we do it. To answer the question though - I'd tell them to run what we run. If they continue to do what they want, I'd find a replacement for next season. I would think that if he is comfortable enough to deviate from the implicit plan of the program then he probably is comfortable in ripping you to other staff. Finally, Freshman and JV football exists to prepare kids for varsity football, nothing more.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2006 7:37:22 GMT -6
This may be an example that the Iowa people like Brophy can understand/attest to. Harlan Iowa is a football dynasty no one can with a straight face argue against that. They are dominating and have been so for a LONG time. They win at all levels all the way down to Junior High and the youth level. They must develop their players but they play to win and expect to win at EVERY level.
And while thier youth program does not run the varsity stuff, they
do very well also. Obviously the varsity coaches have confidence they can teach the kids thier techniques and schemes in the 5 -6 days a week they get em.
The youth program even travels 90 minutes all the way to Omaha so they can play in the most competitive league in the Region rather than against other rural competition. Thier youth program has not dominated here, but has been competitive and even won a few age bracket titles. ( wow the parents there expect to win every game at every level in every sport)
The Youth-Junior HIgh-Frosh/JV and Varsity have a quiet confidence that comes from making winning a HABIT.
I might also add that you can win, have great sportsmanship. teach great fundamantals, play the kids and have fun all in the same season. It happens in the top programs. I often see coaches that have failing to win say they are doing all the above without regards to winning and losing, when in most cases it is just excuse making for poor coaching/ poor priorities/lack of effort/poor schemes. All coaches are not created equal, just like anything else, there are good ones and bad ones.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 13, 2006 10:15:37 GMT -6
one thing that would concern me as a varsity head coach would be a jv coach not running the same stuff. id expect that if we had injuries or lack of depth on varsity that we could pull a kid up with short notice and plug him in...id also expect that the jv practiced with us anyhow. where would they have the time and opportunity to change anything?
7th, 8th...ah....I wouldnt be as concerned. I think that with the amount of "issue" i have read about this stuff on the internet in the last 6 or so years that I would probably give my jr high and frosh guys some room to run what fits their talent. Lets say im running the double wing on the varsity level. Id ask the guys to install , toss, trap, counter, wedge and sweep and run it to perfection. then id probably say "if you want to run some I, keep teh blocking schemes the same and run some I...". afterall, they might have a great I back that will lead to me running some I formation stuff later on. great coaches use the talent that they have. right?
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Post by wildcat on Oct 13, 2006 10:48:22 GMT -6
Here's a great quote from Theodore Roosevelt that I feel fits in well with this discussion:
"The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it."
Sometimes I think that the biggest reason the varsity head coach wants his lower level coaches to run "his stuff" is mostly ego...he doesn't want the lower level coaches to have success doing something that is different from what the varsity is doing (especially if the varsity is struggling).
Football isn't Xs and Os...it's kids, it's relationships, it's building a program from the bottom up, it's fundamentals like blocking and tackling.
If you have smart and fundamentally coaches at the lower levels, let those guys coach! You will be thankful for it when those kids are on the varsity. Also, those lower level coaches will most certainly the freedom to maneuver you have provided for them.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 13, 2006 12:00:47 GMT -6
Here's a great quote from Theodore Roosevelt that I feel fits in well with this discussion: "The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it." Sometimes I think that the biggest reason the varsity head coach wants his lower level coaches to run "his stuff" is mostly ego...he doesn't want the lower level coaches to have success doing something that is different from what the varsity is doing (especially if the varsity is struggling). Football isn't Xs and Os...it's kids, it's relationships, it's building a program from the bottom up, it's fundamentals like blocking and tackling. If you have smart and fundamentally coaches at the lower levels, let those guys coach! You will be thankful for it when those kids are on the varsity. Also, those lower level coaches will most certainly the freedom to maneuver you have provided for them. Cat- I think thats your greatest post of all time. |
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Post by coachsky on Oct 13, 2006 15:45:17 GMT -6
First off, there is absolutely no reason that Freshman / Sophomore / JV teams shouldn't be running the Varsity playbook. That's insanity. Do you let the lower level coaches have a little fun and mix things up? Sure - within reason. If you are running a good program you need to have underclassmen waiting in the wings in case of injury or if they are playing well. They need to be ready.
My experience has taught me that strong fundamentals and consistency of systems are both helpful in preparing kids to play varsity high school football. I would prefer both but if I had to take one or the other, I'd take good fundamentals over experience/familiarity with a system.
I recently switched schools/systems. The system that I used to coach at had a great junior system that prepped kids up to the 9th grade. While most of the junior teams ran a modified version of the high school they also emphasized great fundamentals and they delivered kids (Sophomores) that were really ready to play and contribute.
The youth and junior high programs where I am now don't follow the high school nor do they teach fundamentals. We have to spend so much more time getting our underclassmen ready.
When the bulk of your kids come in with strong fundamentals (blocking/tackling/leverage/stances) you can accomplish so much more as a coach. If they know our sets and plays, even better. If they have a year or two of game time experience running them, better yet. If you had a choice of a Geo Metro or an Escalade what would you drive? They both go down the street, but I'll take the Escalade.
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Post by wildcat on Oct 13, 2006 16:20:44 GMT -6
If you had a choice of a Geo Metro or an Escalade what would you drive? They both go down the street, but I'll take the Escalade. Reminds me of a joke about fat chicks and mopeds...  |
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