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Post by blb on Dec 24, 2012 13:34:57 GMT -6
You didn't answer the question.
Assume there is sufficient proof.
AD tells you were letting player off this time - would you still suspend him?
You said "enforcement of the athletic code rest with all coaches."
If you don't suspend him, then aren't you not enforcing the athletic code?
If AD tells you no and you go ahead and do it anyway, you may be the one risking your job.
Hasn't happened to me either but I have heard of instances where it has occurred (see "Social Media Problems" thread for example).
THAT was my point.
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 24, 2012 16:28:40 GMT -6
I think we are in two very different situations. In the end the ad is the boss and makes the call on this and other matters. As for me I would tell him he is wrong. Have I done this, yes. But I was respectful in the way I did it. The code is there for all coaches to enforce but the ad has final say.
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 24, 2012 18:01:03 GMT -6
All suspensions go through ad, but not all discipline
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Post by blb on Dec 24, 2012 18:07:16 GMT -6
I think we are in two very different situations. How so? I think you've just misconstrued my point in each post. That's what I've said all along. Somehow you took that to mean I wasn't going to enforce the code.
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 24, 2012 18:14:51 GMT -6
Yes it is the way I took it. I think we both mean the same. All coaches enforce the school and athletic code, but suspensions go through ad.
Are your ads also head football?
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Post by blb on Dec 24, 2012 18:22:16 GMT -6
Are your ads also head football? Very few coaches of any sport are also administrators. Most teacher union-school district contracts are written that way. I'm sure no Texas AD-HFC would hesitate to suspend the Hoss caught by one of Lone Star State's finest with some loco weed before the Big Game (which means ANY game, right?), though.
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 24, 2012 18:39:10 GMT -6
I would not say any, but if there chance it could go public then no. With the news so involved here it makes it tougher for big things to get by. Smaller stuff does happen in many places.
As a coordinator I also serve as an administrator at sub varsity games.
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 24, 2012 18:44:32 GMT -6
In Texas it is a dual contract, coach/teacher. Fired from one fired from both
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 25, 2012 10:34:25 GMT -6
Thank heavens we don't give a darn about underage drinking (societally, not just as a team). We'd have trouble fielding a team some weeks!
Broadly speaking, most of these codes seem overwritten and draconian. I think your rules should cover things that actually matter, you should have a minimum of them an enforce them judiciously with proper attention to the specifics of the situation. I believe in being fair over being equal and not legislating yourself into a corner.
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msalazar51
Junior Member
"Believing that 95% commitment is okay results in 100% failure."
Posts: 305
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Post by msalazar51 on Dec 25, 2012 11:15:29 GMT -6
This thread kinda went all over the place...IMO kids need rules, they need to know and see the lines. Ambiguity and vague statements have always seemed to get me, and them, in trouble. It has been my experience that with some parents that common sense has gone out the window. I have had a parent say to me, "How did he know that that was against the rules?" and then have an administration back up the parent. We are talking about benching a kid for getting a referral and kicked out of class...common sense says that these kids are here for school and if they aren't doing that correctly then they earn no reward.
Over time we have developed the following...however I want to be clear that these are always being evaluated and adjusted every year. These rules are a combination of things that I have "stolen" from others and adapted them to what we need. We have put together the "Ten Commandments" which are a combination of rules and expectations.
These work for us... whether or not they would help you is your call.
Player Rules & Expectations[/i][/b]
1. Daily attendance is MANDATORY in order to play football.
2. If you are LATE for practice, the following WILL occur: Excused - Consequence at coaches’ discretion Unexcused - Boogies after practice.
3. CONSEQUENCES FOR MISSING A PRACTICE WILL BE FOLLOWED: Excused - You will not start the next game 1st Unexcused - Boogie and Suspended for first of half game. 2nd Unexcused - Boogie and Suspended for one game. 3rd Unexcused - May result is dismissal from the team. Definition of an excused missed practice - In order for a missed practice or being tardy to be considered excused, you must personally contact a coach through one of the following methods: Call or speak to your coach. Personally tell one of the coaches that you will be late or you will be missing practice. NOTE: The coaching staff must accept your excuse as a valid excuse. For example, telling the coaching staff you want a day off is not a valid excuse. It is at the sole discretion of the coaches to determine the validity of your excuse. In addition NO ONE but YOU may call a coach to excuse your absence, your parents call WILL NOT excuse your absence.
4. Curfew: The hours you keep are between you and your parents. Know the city curfew: It is important for all minors to make every attempt to follow this!
5. Respect for Coaches: Coaches should receive Coach “last name”, responses from players when talking to them. Players in return will be treated with respect by their coaches. Whenever a coach is speaking with you, either individually or as a group, you will give him your undivided attention and always establish eye contact with him.
6. Dress: You will be professional in uniform and out of uniform. Everyone will wear their uniform in the same manner. We are a team. We will furnish your equipment, so you do not need to bring your own equipment. All players must be in school colors at practice and in games, when temperatures start getting colder and undergarments are being used they also must be in school colors. Take care of your equipment. You have the best money can buy. Do not wear jewelry in practice or games. Your appearance away from the field, especially at school, should reflect the pride that exists in all that you do.
7. Care of Equipment and Facilities: You are to clean you equipment as least once per week. Do not track mud and dirt into our locker rooms. Take off cleated shoes before entering the building. When you change into workout gear, your clothes are to be hung up in your locker. Latrines and toilets are to be flushed; showers and faucets turned off so they don’t drip, and all beverage containers placed in the trashcan. Clean up in and around your locker each day. This includes bus usage as well. Team leaders are responsible to monitor both the bus, locker room, weight room and practice areas.
8. Team Travel: Check and pack all your gear. You are responsible for this. Please be prompt, if you are late you will be left behind. Do not miss a meeting or a team meal if we are traveling a long distance. The only hats allowed are Granite Hills High School hats and must be school colors. There will be NO loud or boisterous conduct on the trips, remember why we are here. We will sing AFTER A WIN! Everyone will return with the team, unless approved by the head coach. There will be very few, if any, exceptions.
9. Hazing: We will never allow any of the extreme form of initiation known as hazing, nor allow any to start. Younger players should show respect to the older players, while the older players should prove themselves worthy of that respect. A player shouldn't have to have his head shaved or his body painted, nor should he have to do foul and disgusting things in order to play football. It is a coaches’ job, not some teenager's, to determine what's required to play football, if a player is willing to step forward and do all the things required, by the Coaches, that's enough. Hazing normally takes the form of a seemingly harmless initiation ritual, and incidents resulting in extreme humiliation, injury - even death - are the rare exceptions. Hazing won't go away by itself. The most important thing in ending it is that athletes must have the courage to blow the whistle - to step forward and report hazing when it occurs. Players must have the strength and courage to say - beforehand - "I'm not going to subject myself to this." Hazing is a serious problem, and will not be tolerated. Any type of hazing at all will be deal with severely. Suspension or removal from the team is definite.
10. The “X” Rule: “X” in mathematics is the symbol for the unknown. The X rule states that if a situation arises that are not mentioned in the rules, the coaching staff, at its discretion, will have the right to determine whether the situation will be tolerated and what the consequences are for the situation.
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msalazar51
Junior Member
"Believing that 95% commitment is okay results in 100% failure."
Posts: 305
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Post by msalazar51 on Dec 25, 2012 20:15:54 GMT -6
Sorry it was so long Coach.
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Post by hchscoachtom on Dec 25, 2012 22:29:23 GMT -6
"CHOOSE TO DO THINGS THAT WILL HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT ON YOUR TEAM"
RULES - 5 BE'S 1. BE IN ATTENDANCE - 95% PARTICIPATION FOR OFF SEASON 2. BE ON TIME - 15 MINUTES PRIOR 3. BE PREPARED - NO EXCUSES! 4. BE RESPECTFUL - "YES SIR", "NO SIR" 5. BE ELIGIBLE - ACADEMICS & BEHAVIOR
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Post by Chris Clement on Dec 26, 2012 9:59:07 GMT -6
There's a city-wide curfew for teenagers?
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 26, 2012 10:04:59 GMT -6
Msal, I really like your number 10.
Many cities have that curfew. I think last place I was in with one it was 10pm sun to thurs. fri and sat it was midnight. If you had a job that worked later then you could be out later.
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msalazar51
Junior Member
"Believing that 95% commitment is okay results in 100% failure."
Posts: 305
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Post by msalazar51 on Dec 26, 2012 10:26:49 GMT -6
Msal, I really like your number 10. Many cities have that curfew. I think last place I was in with one it was 10pm sun to thurs. fri and sat it was midnight. If you had a job that worked later then you could be out later. Every single one of these items stem from experiences with kids and parents over the years. Believe it or not, it is more for the parents, because I have too often had experiences with parents that DO NOT want us (the coaching staff) to hold their kids accountable to the team. However, they have no problem with other people's kids are held accountable. As for the curfew, yes we have the same curfew times. Curfews are a community's attempt to parent the community teens. Really what should happen is that parents need to receive a citation for not looking after their kids. Instead, all that happens is that the kids are taken home and a little bit of embarrassment. Not enough IMO.
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Post by coachb23 on Dec 26, 2012 10:47:22 GMT -6
I think your rules should cover things that actually matter, you should have a minimum of them an enforce them judiciously with proper attention to the specifics of the situation. I believe in being fair over being equal and not legislating yourself into a corner. With all due respect, isn't the more important part of our job as coaches supposed to be molding young men for their futures? IMO there are plenty of rules that don't affect your team's performance on the field, but DO need to be enforced with your team if you are to try and transform these kids to be better people for their futures after high school, particularly at schools where the kids are from situations where they get little to no parenting away from the school.
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msalazar51
Junior Member
"Believing that 95% commitment is okay results in 100% failure."
Posts: 305
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Post by msalazar51 on Dec 26, 2012 10:50:55 GMT -6
I think your rules should cover things that actually matter, you should have a minimum of them an enforce them judiciously with proper attention to the specifics of the situation. I believe in being fair over being equal and not legislating yourself into a corner. With all due respect, isn't the more important part of our job as coaches supposed to be molding young men for their futures? IMO there are plenty of rules that don't affect your team's performance on the field, but DO need to be enforced with your team if you are to try and transform these kids to be better people for their futures after high school, particularly at schools where the kids are from situations where they get little to no parenting away from the school. I couldn't agree more! Our rules that look like football rules are actually rules for life. Working hard to make better men.
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Post by btex0127 on Dec 26, 2012 12:55:28 GMT -6
You said it very well, it is more for parents than players. It was the way I wish I had said it earlier. Many times the kids understand better than the parents. Kids can see the point while parents come from a view of passion, their kid, and can not see beyond that.
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msalazar51
Junior Member
"Believing that 95% commitment is okay results in 100% failure."
Posts: 305
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Post by msalazar51 on Dec 26, 2012 13:30:44 GMT -6
You said it very well, it is more for parents than players. It was the way I wish I had said it earlier. Many times the kids understand better than the parents. Kids can see the point while parents come from a view of passion, their kid, and can not see beyond that. There is a great essay out there if you google "open letter to parents of football players" it says a lot! Any high school coach would find it a very well written essay. Additionally, I think it is important that parents must take into consideration that I have to take into account the entire program, all stakeholders, not just them. At the same time I must never forget their perspective and my responsibilities to them. I have said in a parent meeting that I understand that often times they would be happy if their kid is a starter on a 4 - 6 team, but I'd choose for them to be a backup on special teams and a state title, given the choice. Not implying that winning is the only thing, but it is the most important thing on Friday night. Never forget that.
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