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Post by tye2021 on Jun 14, 2006 7:24:46 GMT -6
I wanted to ask this question because a lot of the coaches here seem to get real upset about jr high and youth teams not running the varsity HS coaches offense and defense.
I grew up in Pensacola Fl. We didn't have jr high football but we did have pop warner football. We also had whats called the optimas league that offered a heavier weight limit(not anymore because they raised the weight limit for pop warner teams).
Now these youth teams never ran any of the playbooks that high schools were running. I also coached pop warner in Norristown, Pa under the same situation. Yet alot of the high schools still had great success as contenders and going deep into the state playoffs.
So why not allow the jr football coaches and the youth team coaches to run a system that they are comfortable with and have more knowledge about? Wouldn't that give them a better chance to be successful and build a name for themselves? And wouldn't it also give the team a better chance of winning because the coach knows the systemhe wants to teach his players.(provided the guy actually knows what he's doing) And isn't the most important thing for you as high school coaches is that when the kids make it to highschool he knows how to play football and understand and know the fundamentals of football and proper techniques?
I beleive that 4 years is more than enough time for kids to grasp your playbook (frosh - sr). Just my opinion!
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Post by brophy on Jun 14, 2006 7:34:49 GMT -6
While they aren't "needed", you severely retard your competitive edge against your opponents that do as well as hinder your recruiting advantage.
Now as far as letting Middle schools run their own house...or whatever.
Football is football - sure, you could run whatever it is YOU want to run at that level, you could run the table and be the world's Middle School Bill Belichick of football wizardry.....but WHO CARES?!!? WHO CARES if your 8th graders go 100-0 with a win margin of 86 points.....it doesn't matter until they are playing VARSITY!!
If you want to HELP these athletes with what matters.....run what the Varsity runs so that the simple and basic fundamentals of their system can be second nature to these kids when they are Sophmores...leaving more time to game plan each opponent
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Post by groundchuck on Jun 14, 2006 7:36:27 GMT -6
I wanted to ask this question because a lot of the coaches here seem to get real upset about jr high and youth teams not running the varsity HS coaches offense and defense. I grew up in Pensacola Fl. We didn't have jr high football but we did have pop warner football. We also had whats called the optimas league that offered a heavier weight limit(not anymore because they raised the weight limit for pop warner teams). Now these youth teams never ran any of the playbooks that high schools were running. I also coached pop warner in Norristown, Pa under the same situation. Yet alot of the high schools still had great success as contenders and going deep into the state playoffs. So why not allow the jr football coaches and the youth team coaches to run a system that they are comfortable with and have more knowledge about? Wouldn't that give them a better chance to be successful and build a name for themselves? And wouldn't it also give the team a better chance of winning because the coach knows the systemhe wants to teach his players.( provided the guy actually knows what he's doing) And isn't the most important thing for you as high school coaches is that when the kids make it to highschool he knows how to play football and understand and know the fundamentals of football and proper techniques? I beleive that 4 years is more than enough time for kids to grasp your playbook (frosh - sr). Just my opinion! I think where you definitly want your feeder program on the same page is with terminology and philosophy. If your 6th graders line up in the straight T and your varsity lines up in the I formation it does not matter. I also would not want a jr high coach running "double reverse throwback passes" all the time if it was not part of my offense at the HS level. I agree the feeder program coaches should tweak the system to give them a good chance to win the games, but it should also be within the framework of what the varsity coach wants. Notice I said framework, that can give a lot of flexibility...but IMO there should be continuity from one level to the next. |
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Post by coachjd on Jun 14, 2006 8:00:39 GMT -6
I think terminology and base philosophy needs to be on the same page. Do they need to run the same offense or defense to an exact science? IMO no. The main points we stress with our JH coaches is: teach them a good stance, teach them how to block and tackle, teach them to run to the football on defense and make sure they understand what hard work is all about and finally, make sure they have fun!!
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jun 14, 2006 8:10:21 GMT -6
Tye, I will agree with you to a point in certain situations. Here, a feeder program is important because unless a kid moves or is willing to drive 25 miles, he will be at our HS after JH. Plus, we are a small school, and while we have not had any freshmen start since I can remember, we have had some who played quite a bit in key backup/situational roles. Those roles have increased since the JH and HS have been on the same page. Before we had this, kids came up as freshmen with talent, but were clueless on our systems. Even a kid who is now in the NFL was not ready from a preparation standpoint to start as a freshman, which I think is wrong IF you are in a situation where that can be remedied (and in many it can't- so it's a moot point there- here it wasn't though).
For us, all I really care about is that the JH learns our line system and terminology on offense. Defensively, I want them to know our base, and our base coverage. That will at least give them a good starting point for the next season. Running the same plays, to me, is not a very big deal.
When I was in a big school, we had no feeder program, and as long as kids did not learn bad habits, I wasn't terribly concerned whether or not they ran our schemes, etc. (especially since no area program had a feeder either) because most freshmen would have 2 years of preparation before they were on the varsity. Still, we did have 2 freshmen start for us there... (fairly atypical though... both ended up being DI players), and in their case, it would have been nice if they would have known our systems earlier.
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Post by tog on Jun 14, 2006 8:10:55 GMT -6
the few whacked out school districts in texas that do not have control over their feeder programs generally get killed by everyone else
99% of the schools in texas, the jr hi runs the same stuff, if you don't you are behind
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Post by pegleg on Jun 14, 2006 8:32:33 GMT -6
as far as youth teams go, the only thing that matters to me is that they are teaching proper fundys to the kids. them running hs stuff is not practical imo. let the kids have fun, wins and losses are important at any level but really don't matter until varsity.
feeder programs are very important. kids who know the basics of your system are ahead of the game when they get to the hs. tog is right, very few teams in tx do not have direct control of the jr high programs. those that don't are lower level programs, typically. also, not having control is a deal breaker when looking for a hc job most of the time, if i can't have control i don't want the job.
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Post by coachcb on Jun 14, 2006 9:06:22 GMT -6
Fundamentals are obviouly something that needs to be taught in the feeder programs, but terminology and basic offensive and defensive schemes also need to be taught. Those programs that don't require the feeder programs to teach it are setting the kids back a year. The head coach of the program should show you exactly what he wants done and how to teach it to the kids. I have had it out with a number of ms coaches on this subject and its never pretty. I have found that its a whole lot less about them coaching "what they're comfortable with" and more about them needing to check their egos at the door. They need to sit down and realize its not only whats best for the program and the community, but whats best for the kids also. I have coached at the ms and freshman level and its a bitch to teach these freshman the basics of the program when the middle school programs are running what ever they want.
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Post by tvt50 on Jun 14, 2006 9:09:37 GMT -6
YES! They are needed. Football is blocking and tackling. Teach them to be tough, disciplined, love the game, work hard, and never quit. That is what I learned from youth league football and that is what I want from our feeder programs.
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Post by brophy on Jun 14, 2006 9:31:19 GMT -6
After re-reading what you wrote and are stating.... provided the guy actually knows what he's doing) That's wishful thinking from some of the programs I've been with.... the kids make it to highschool he knows how to play football and understand and know the fundamentals of football and proper techniques? I agree with ya. Running within the framework of basic football principles / fundamentals....the rest is minutiae. If you run Wing T, as long as you run the belly and cross-buck a decent amount of the time, it really shouldn't be an issue if you throw a trips or gun package in the mix for variety (as long as it isn't the "base" offense you're running). Same deal, you know the Varsity has to adapt the offense based on personnel, but stays within the frame work of their 'system' but nothing dramatically changes. I believe I agree with everything you've stated.....I also think the Middle school is one of the most UNDER APPRECIATED and at times, OVER LOOKED elements of building a Varsity program. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 14, 2006 9:36:31 GMT -6
Just to play devils advocate (and I brought this up in another thread one time), it seems that all of those who seem to think it is "necessary" to have a MS/Feeder school run the same or similar system,terminology, techniques etc. are H.S. coaches.
Couldn't one argue the EXACT same thing going up another level. Shouldn't H.S. coaches NOT run offenses that aren't done at the college level? For example, the Double Wing, Straight T, Power I etc. Those don't help kids at the next level. Who is developing the WR's in these schemes? Same with the Option.... etc.
Why is it that several times I have read that the W/L don't count till "Varsity". Couldn't a collegiate level coach make the same claim? Yeah, HS. is important ...to the HS coaches.
Obviously this is not a completely parallel argument, but it is similar enough to give a moment of pause and provide for extra facts to consider.
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Post by coachcb on Jun 14, 2006 9:53:12 GMT -6
All of the kids on you're high school team aren't going to the same college- or any college for that matter. Obviously, all of the kids on the junior high program are going to the same high school.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 14, 2006 10:03:26 GMT -6
coachcb..I knew that someone would mention that... so my response is "are all the kids on the JH program going to play Varsity ball?"
Also, JH ball has to deal with the ultimate in uncertainty. PUBERTY. Some of your biggest kids on JH might be some of the SMALLEST kids on varsity, because of the timing of their growth spurt. How do you deal with that maturation process and position? Do you play them where they will be at the HS level, or where they best help the JH team?
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Post by blb on Jun 14, 2006 10:18:35 GMT -6
In a perfect world, the middle school and youth league programs would be aligned with the high school program, so that there would be a vertical continuity that would benefit the players as they moved through. In a lot of the highly-successful HS programs in every state, this is probably the case.
In the real world, HS coaches (at least in my experience in Michigan) seldom can hire and fire youth coaches. These leagues, whether Pop Warner, Rocket, or local, are usually autonomous, which makes it difficult to get them to run the HS' schemes, unless the youth coach takes it upon himself to do so.
At the middle school or junior high level, the principal is in charge and usually is just happy to be able to find decent coaches, particularly if they're teachers in the building. The MS principal is not going to bow to interference from the HS HFC either mandating what should be taught or removing the coaches if the HS coach is unhappy with them.
Some long-time, well-established coaches have had good luck getting former players into these coaching positions, which helps in getting a system implemented.
The other side of the coin is: How many head HS coaches are still going to be around by the time the 4th or even 7th graders get to that level? We all know, unfortunately, what the turnover rate is. And even if the head guy is still around - what if he has changed offenses or defenses? In other words, you had the feeder programs running the Wing-T for five years but now you've gone to the Spread, for example. Of what benefit then was the lower levels running the discarded scheme?
Look at your own schools. How many of you have had a change in head coach, offense, and/or defense in the last generation of players?
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Post by coachcalande on Jun 14, 2006 10:38:23 GMT -6
"but WHO CARES?!!? WHO CARES if your 8th graders go 100-0 with a win margin of 86 points.....it doesn't matter until they are playing VARSITY!!"
THE COACHING STAFF CARES, THE PLAYERS CARE, THEIR PARENTS CARE, THE CHEERLEADERS CARE, THE FACULTY CARES, THE ENTIRE STUDENT BODY CARES...KIDS WANT TO WIN AND THEY WANT TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH A WINNER. IT MATTERS. SAYING IT DOESNT MATTER IS JUST AS BAD AS SAYING ITS ALL THAT MATTERS REALLY.
NOW, HERES MY TWO CENTS, ...I THINK ITS GREAT IF YOU CAN HAVE SAME TERMINOLOGY...BUT REALLY, THE XS AND OS AND THE TYPES OF PLAYS AND FORMATIONS JUST DOESNT MATTER. I MEAN IF WE RAN SWEEP FROM WING T AND THE VARSITY RAN IT FROM i...WOULD IT MATTER? CHANCES ARE THAT MOST OF THE KIDS WILL MOVE POSITIONS BEFORE THEY FINISH OUT ANYHOW. BESIDES, HOW MANY KIDS DO YOU KNOW THAT WILL REMEMBER THE PLAYS FROM YEAR TO YEAR? HALF OF EM CANT REMEMBER THEM FROM FRIDAY TO MONDAY. ALL I KNOW IS THAT KIDS WANT TO WIN AT ANY LEVEL AND MOST OF THEM WILL NEVER GET TO START ON THE VARSITY LEVEL. CERTAINLY MOST WILL NOT START ON THE COLLEGE LEVEL. THE KIDS PLAY TO HAVE FUN, WINNING IS FUN. I AM RUNNING SOMEONE ELSES SYSTEM THIS YEAR AND IT IS FOR THE GOOD OF THE PROGRAM, BUT IT IS HANDICAPPIGN ME AND MY STAFF SIMPLY BECAUSE I HAVE TO GET USED TO THE TERMINOLOGY. I THINK IT HANDICAPS MY KIDS BECAUSE I BALK AND HESITATE AND HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK THEIR ASSIGNMENTS AND BLOCKING RULES ETC...IF IT WAS MY OWN SYSTEM, WHICH I KNOW LIKE THE BACK OF MY HAND, I COULD TEACH IT IN MY SLEEP.
ARE THEY NECESSARY? NOT REALLY. BIG SCHOOLS LIKE CENTRAL BUCKS WEST HAVE WON MULTIPLE STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS HERE IN PA WITHOUT THEM...AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF LOSERS HERE WHO DO HAVE FEEDERS...ALL RUNNING THE SAME BAD SYSTEM...DO I THINK ITS NICE? YES, ...BUT THE REAL BENEFIT THAT MOST DONT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IS THAT THE VARSITY COACHES CAN WALK ONTO THE YOUTH FOOTBALL FIELD AND CONTRIBUTE WHERE THEY ARE NEEDED MOST. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND. EVERYONE SPEAKS THE SAME LANGUAGE. THE COACHING STAFF IS INTERCHANGABLE...(TO A POINT, THERES NO WAY I KNOW THE LINGO THAT OUR VARSITY STAFF USES INSIDE AND OUT LIKE THEY KNOW IT)...ANYHOW, ITS BLOCKING AND TACKLING AT EVERY LEVEL THAT WINS.
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Post by brophy on Jun 14, 2006 10:39:34 GMT -6
How many head HS coaches are still going to be around by the time the 4th or even 7th graders get to that level? We all know, unfortunately, what the turnover rate is. And even if the head guy is still around - what if he has changed offenses or defenses? In other words, you had the feeder programs running the Wing-T for five years but now you've gone to the Spread, for example. Of what benefit then was the lower levels running the discarded scheme? Look at your own schools. How many of you have had a change in head coach, offense, and/or defense in the last generation of players? GREAT point there ....that about sums it up. |
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Post by coachcalande on Jun 14, 2006 10:41:19 GMT -6
IM RUNNING "LAST YEARS OFFENSE" THIS YEAR LOL. IM SURE THE PLAYS WE ARE USING ARE HOWEVER GOING TO BE USED AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, ITS ALL BASIC STUFF.
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Post by coachcalande on Jun 14, 2006 10:43:35 GMT -6
ONE OTHER POINT...SOMEONE SAID "ALL MS KIDS GO TO THE SAME HS"...NOT ACTUALLY TRUE. WE HAD 4 MIDDLE SCHOOLS FEED TWO OR THREE HIGH SCHOOLS WHERE I GREW UP..I PLAYED AGAINST MY MS TEAMMATES BECAUSE I LIVED ACROSS THE STREET FROM THEM...THUS WENT TO A DIFFERENT SCHOOL.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 14, 2006 10:53:21 GMT -6
Exactly right Calande.... and it fits your theme this year "Make the big time where YOU are".
Glad that someone came in and supported the MS teams. That was the other spectrum of my devils advocate post. Just as HS varsity coaches allude to W/L only mattering at their level, Many college guys could do the same. "Hey coach, why play that kid at DL, we are projecting him at an LB at college..'Where it really matters' ".
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Post by brophy on Jun 14, 2006 11:28:00 GMT -6
Glad that someone came in and supported the MS teams. I don't think anyone is attacking / bashing Middle School programs... I'm a little puzzled, though. What benefit to the kids / young athletes if Middle School coach can serve HIS OWN ego by trying to be Lombardi Jr. and run the table with his MS kids at the expense of developing future players / fundamentals (running other potential players off)? I understood that as the argument of "running your own show" at the MS level. Our three feeder schools fed into four other city schools and two "heavy recruiting" schools.....so a TRUE feeder mentality couldn't be established, though it would greatly benefit the kids with verbiage and football basics. Too often, we had to start from SQUARE ONE when these kids came in as Freshmen, because the MS coaches were running God Knows what with no consistency between the seasons, further retarding the growth / potential of the athletes we got. While our competitors has THEIR kids in programs when they are in the 5th grade........you can see the difference. Their junior programs aren't spectacular to watch, but those kids, being exposed to the same stuff for six years before Varsity are as tough as nails on Friday nights. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 14, 2006 11:43:11 GMT -6
Murphy...again I think there is definitely middle ground in the debate here. I am simply playing devils advocate.
Not all of the jr high kids are going to be HS football players, and many that do will not play the same position that they do in jr high, just as not all of the HS football players will play in college. And again, I was just noticing that it is the HS coaches who are saying that it is "Friday Nights and Varsity" that matters. Calande, as a jr high coach, understandably has a different point of view. I would be willing to bet that many college Oline coaches wish that HS oline guys taught zone steps, because to them, its SATURDAYS that count.
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Post by coachcalande on Jun 14, 2006 12:19:13 GMT -6
IM ALSO PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE HERE. I TELL MY KIDS ALL THE TIME THAT I WANT TO PREPARE THEM FOR HIGH SCHOOL AND PUT THEM WHERE THEY WILL MOST LIKELY END UP AND ALL THAT...BUT COMON, THEY ARE 12, 13 YEARS OLD...WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM IN TERMS OF GROWTH, SPEED, STRENGTH BETWEEN NOW AND 17 AND 18 YEARS OF AGE....TRUE STORY, WHEN I WAS 12 I WAS AN ALL STAR CENTER AND DT...WHEN I WAS 15 I WAS THE SMALLEST KID ON MY TEAM. KNOW WHAT MATTERED TO ME THEN? THOSE WINNING SEASONS AND GREAT MEMORIES OF WHEN I WAS 12. SO YEAH, IT MATTERS TO THE KIDS. ONE MORE POINT AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT OF ALL, JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WINNING DOESNT MEAN YOU ARE HURTING THE KIDS...ITS COMPLETELY REDICULOUS TO ASSUME THAT A WINNING COACH MUST BE DOING ALL KINDS OF GOOFY STUFF TO WIN ...WE TYPICALLY RUN 8-10 PLAYS TO DEATH IN OUR LIL 8 MINUTE QUARTERS, WE EXECUTE, WE BLOCK AND FAKE AND RUN HARD AND SHED BLOCKS AND PURSUIT AND TACKLE AND STRIP THE BALL...ALL STUFF ANY VARSITY NEEDS TO WIN. DOES IT MATTER THAT I PULL MY GUARDS ON A TOSS SWEEP WHILE THE VARSITY DOESNT? I DOUBT IT. FACT, THE KIDS I COACHED RUNNING SW AND DW AT BOONE WERE THE FIRST IN 18 OR SO YEARS TO MAKE PLAYOFFS AS VARSITY PLAYERS...DID I HURT THEM? DOUBTFUL. SEVERAL ARE GOING TO PLAY COLLEGE BALL. THEY WON, IT MADE THEM STICK WITH IT AS THEY HAD A PASSION FOR THE GAME AND KNEW A BIT ABOUT WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN.
AGAIN, NOT SURE WHY SOME THINK THAT WINNING AND FEEDING YOUR EGO IS SUCH A BAD THING. ITS THE EGO THAT DRIVES ONE TO WORK HARD ENOUGH TO SUCCEED ISNT IT?
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Post by coachcalande on Jun 14, 2006 12:20:18 GMT -6
BY THE WAY, JUST SO YA KNOW, IF I WAS THE VARSITY HEAD COACH AND I COULD DO IT, ID HAVE KIDS 5-6 YEARS OLD THRU MY VARSITY RUNNING MY DW AND 46. WHY? EGO LOL.
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smd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211 
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Post by smd on Jun 14, 2006 12:48:08 GMT -6
check out the % of teams that won state championships this year that had their feeder programs run their stuff. it is in the new American Football Monthly.
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Post by brophy on Jun 14, 2006 12:51:20 GMT -6
AGAIN, NOT SURE WHY SOME THINK THAT WINNING AND FEEDING YOUR EGO IS SUCH A BAD THING. ITS THE EGO THAT DRIVES ONE TO WORK HARD ENOUGH TO SUCCEED ISNT IT? never seen your teams, Steve, all I am qualified to speak on is what happens in our area. And that comes from talking with those MS coaches, who refuse to run anything close to the Varsity (and not because they know of a 'superior' system or that they have a system they know better), and hear, " Well, I don't know why the HS team isn't great.....they were 8-0 when I coached them...." That comes from re-training defensive backs and linebackers, who, throughout the middle school years, the only 'fundamental' they received was blitzing gaps (and never learned a stance, drop, pursuit, tackling, etc). Maybe I'm in left field and misinterpretting the post, but I thought I was stressing the VALUE of the MS programs. Winning is great, but it's not the only thing, especially if it reinforces "bad" fundamentals. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 14, 2006 13:23:01 GMT -6
Brophy...you are exactly right on your side of the argument as well. When doing some coaching on the jr high level, i noticed that a lot of the teams that won, did so playing things that might not be so sound. For example one team we played lined up with two 4i's, two 6's, LB's stacked in C gap, two corners by the numbers, and Safeties about 13 yards deep. (For you math wizards, that is 10 players) The 11th... he lined up at MLB..and he was fully mature. So they basically outnumbered you and forced you to a player who was physically not able to be blocked by our 7th and 8th graders.
Both of the schools were k-12...and at the varsity level, the school that I was at routinely beat the opposing varsity by 40-50 points. It was so unbalanced a series that in fact, now the school I was at plays a JV game versus the other teams varsity, and usually wins. HOWEVER, we struggled to beat them at the MS or JR High level.
I think the what you are saying, (and I agree with 100%) is that the MAIN purpose of those feeder schools is to ensure that the kids come out knowing how to block, how to tackle, have experience as to how PLAY blockers, rather than just stunt gaps, How to cover a viable passing attack, even if they haven't seen much of one... etc.
Now, where I disagree with some on here, is that I don't think there needs to be a system, terminology, carryover etc from feeders to HS.
Smd commented about the state champs and the percentage of those with feeders. I would attribute that state championship not to the same system, but to the obvious organization (and then assumably better coaching) that the kids are getting at the MS levels.
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Post by brophy on Jun 14, 2006 13:30:31 GMT -6
IF you get quality MS coaches, your Varsity program can pretty much run itself. If I had my own program, I'd put my most competent and trustworthy coaches at the MS or Freshmen level. Scheme and the chalkboard is over rated - fundamentals are not.
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Post by coachcalande on Jun 14, 2006 13:40:16 GMT -6
check out the % of teams that won state championships this year that had their feeder programs run their stuff. it is in the new American Football Monthly. OK, NOT TO BE RUDE, BUT ITS A POINTLESS STAT UNLESS THEY WERE LOSING BEFORE THEIR FEEDERS FED THEM AND NOW SUDDENLY ITS MADE THE DIFFERENCE...FACT IS THIS, IF A GUY IS WINNING STATE CHAMPIONSHIPS ITS BECAUSE HES GOT TALENT, CAN COACH, CAN TEACH AND IS ORGANIZED, NOT BECAUSE HIS 12 YEAR OLD TEAM CAN RUN TRAP AND POWER THE SAME WAY HE DOES. I MEAN, HOW MANY YEARS WOULD IT TAKE TO REALLY PROVE THAT A TEAM IS THAT MUCH BETTER BECAUSE OF THEIR FEEDERS...SUPPOSE YOU HAD A LOUSY VARSITY COACH,...HE HAS A WEAK SYSTEM...HES GOT EVERYONE ON THE SAME PAGE RUNNIGN THAT POOR SYSTEM...WILL HE HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER A GUY WHOS RUNNING A GREAT SYSTEM AND HAS NOONE ELSE IN HIS SYSTEM RUNNING IT? I SAY NO WAY. WHY? BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN THERE. I HAVE SEEN NOTHING BUT BASE BLOCKING AND MULTIPLE SETS AT EVERY LEVEL...THATS NOT GOING TO GET IT DONE. NOW, SECOND PART, AND OFTEN MISSED...IF A GUY IS A WINNER, WINS ALOT OF GAMES...HES GOT CLOUT. HES GOING TO WALK IN AND GUYS ARE GOING TO WANT TO EMULATE HIM. THEY ARE GOING TO WANT TO BE PART OF IT. ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOUR VARSITY HAS A GUY WHOS CAREER RECORD IS 3-27 WHO THE HECK WANTS TO EMULATE HIM? WHOS GOING TO LISTEN TO HIM?...SEE MY POINT? HE WILL BE THE GUY SAYING "WELL, ITS THE JR HIGH COACHES AND YOUTH COACHES THAT ARE TO BLAME FOR OUR LACK OF SUCCESS...IF ONLY THEY HAD RUN MY 101 SPREAD FORMATIONS, NO HUDDLE, MORPH TO POWER I OVERNIGHT OFFENSE"FINALLY, AND THIS IRKS ME BECAUSE I HAVE TAKEN MY SHARE OF LUMPS FOR NOT RUNNING THE STUFF MY VARSITY BOSSES RAN... SOME OF THESE GUYS CHANGED THEIR OFFENSES EVERY WEEK! ANYONE WHO OWNS MY DW PLAYBOOK CAN CLEARLY SEE WHERE I HAD TO USE WHITEOUT TO CHANGE THE BACK AND HOLE NUMBERS...3 TIMES IN 4 YEARS!!! REDICULOUS. OK, AS I SAID, IF I WAS THE VARSITY BOSS ID DO A COUPLE OF THINGS 1) PREPARE VIDEO OF DRILLS AND FUNDIES AS I WANT THEM TAUGHT 2) PREPARE PLAYER AND POSITION COACHES MANUALS AS I WANT THEM TAUGHT 3) PREPARE VIDEO PLAYBOOKS WITH CHALK TALK LECTURE, CLINIC FOOTAGE, PLAYS ON VIDEO AND PRACTICE FOOTAGE FOR EVERY LEVEL OF THE PROGRAM 4) INSIST THAT EVERY LEVEL RUN THE DW CORE FANTASTIC 5 PLAYS POWER SWEEP COUNTER TRAP WEDGE AND THEN LET THEM PICK FROM A FEW OTHER PLAYS IN THE PLAYBOOK THAT FIT THEIR TALENT. ID ALSO HAVE CLINICS AND WORK SHOPS WHERE WE DISCUSSED THINGS LIKE DEALING WITH PARENTS, DEALING WITH REFS, DEALING WITH CANCEROUS ATTITUDES, DEALING WITH SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS, HOW TO RUN AN EFFICIENT PRACTICE, HOW TO SUIT A KID SAFELY, HOW TO CALL PLAYS, HOW TO BREAK DOWN VIDEO AND FIND WAYS TO GET EACH GUY TO OWN A PART OF THE PROGRAM... OUR PROGRAM, NOT MY PROGRAM.ID HAVE THEM TEACH MAN TO MAN COVERAGE AND THE 46 GAMBLER DEFENSE AND WORK HARD WITH THEM TO CONVINCE THEM THAT THIS IS WHAT WE WILL BE IN AT THE VARSITY LEVEL...BUT ID BE ABLE TO WALK ON THEIR FIELDS AND TEACH AS A MEMBER OF THEIR STAFF BECAUSE WED ALL BE ON THE SAME PAGE....BUT IF THEY REFUSED....ID STILL GO KICK SOMEONES ARSE ON FRIDAY NIGHT AND NEVER EVEN BLINK AN EYE. WHEN THEY LOST A FEW GAMES ID AGAIN BE IN THEIR HIP POCKET TEACHING MY STUFF. EGO? YEAH... BUT THE ULTIMATE IDEA IS ONE TEAM, ONE HEART BEAT, ONE PROGRAM....WINNERS AT EVERY LEVEL. EACH COACH HAS TO KNOW HIS LEVEL OF FOOTBALL AND FIND WAYS TO WIN WHILE COACHING UP THE BEST FUNDIES IN THE LEAGUE. ID INSIST THAT OUR COACHES WERE CAPABLE TEACHERS AND PASSIONATE ABOUT MAKING FINE CITIZENS OUT OF OUR KIDS. ID INSIST THAT THE EGOS AND CANCERS AND PRIMA DONNAS BE FIXED AND TREATED FOR WHAT AILS THEM. ID RATHER HAVE GOOD PEOPLE THAN GOOD PLAYERS AND I MEAN THAT. ID EVALUATE MY PROGRAM ON THINGS LIKE DISCIPLINE REFERRALS, GRADES, PARTICIPATION IN OTHER SPORTS, COMMUNITY SERVICE, FAITH, HELPING AT HOME, BEING KIND TO EACH OTHER, FAMILY AND OWNERSHIP OF THE PROGRAM...DO THEY WANT TO GIVE BACK? BUT WE WILL WIN. |
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Post by coachcb on Jun 14, 2006 13:43:53 GMT -6
There are middle scholls that feedinto several high schools- but there are a lot of communities where the middle schools feed into one high school. When this is the case, the kids should be runn ing the same basic system of the high school. So what if all of the kids playing middle school ball don't play in high school- those that do (and there will be a lot of them) will benefit from from running the same system. Even if they switch positions, they will have an over-all familiarity with the terminology and the basics of the program.
There is no correlation bewteen the middle schools being a feeder program and the high schools being one for colleges. How many kids from an 8th grade team end up playing high school football- quite a few. How many of your varsity seniors will every play college football- very few in most situations.
The basic fundamentals everyone if talking about can be different if the feeder programs aren't running the same program. Its just like brophy said, I can't count how many times I have had to completely re-teach fundamentals because the basics of the junior high program were completely different than what we were teaching. In the worst case scenario, we had WRs that didn't know how to run any routes or catch passes because their 8th grade coach didn't "believe in the forward pass".
I have a biased view in this situation because I was in a situation where the junior high coaches were basically given free-reign over their schemes and it had terrible results.
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Post by coachcalande on Jun 14, 2006 13:56:26 GMT -6
YUP, TWO SIDES TO THIS...IF YOU HAVE A GUY WHO CAN TEACH PASS PATTERNS, PASS PROTECTION AND INSTALL A GREAT RUNNING GAME AT JR HIGH...HES PROBABLY THE NEXT VINCE LOMBARDI. WE HAVE ALOT LESS TIME TO ACCOMPLISH THESE THINGS THAN A VARSITY STAFF WOULD. ITS NOT HOW FAR WE GO BUT HOW FAR WE HAVE COME THAT MATTERS. I THINK SOME GUYS FORGET THAT WE ARE GETTING 50% ROOKIES AT LEAST EVERY YEAR...I HAVE 60 PLUS KIDS THIS YEAR....SHOOT, SOME DONT EVEN KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BLOCK AND A TACKLE OR OFFENSE AND DEFENSE...OR EVEN THAT THEY GET 4 DOWNS TO GET 10 YARDS!
YOURE NOT GOING TO GET THE WEST COAST OFFENSE FROM ME.. WE ARE WORKING ON STANCES, STAYING AND PLAYING WITH LOW PAD LEVEL, NOT JUMPING OFF SIDES, WHERE TO LINE UP, HOW TO SHED A BLOCK, HOW TO MAKE AND SUSTAIN A BLOCK, HOW TO CARRY A BALL, FAKE, TAKE A PITCH, HANDOFF ETC, PLAY OUTSIDE ARM FREE ... AND THE MOST VERY BASIC STUFF...WE CAN PROBABLY REP ABOUT 3-5 PLAY ACTION PASS PLAYS AND EXPECT TO COMPLETE 2-3 A GAME (BASED ON THE FACT THAT I AM NOT GOING TO THROW MANY IN A GAME, WE THROW IN PREGAME AND IN PRACTICE LOL)...BUT YES, ID EXPECT THAT THE VARSITY WOULD LOVE IT IF WE HAD AT LEAST TAUGHT THEM "POST" "OUT" "CORNER" AND THINGS LIKE THAT
....WANNA KNOW SOMETHING...NO VARSITY COACH HAS EVER SHOWN ME HOW TO RUN A PASS PATTERN THE WAY THEY TEACH IT. THATS A FACT. NO VARSITY COACH HAS EVER PROVIDED ME WITH GAME FILM TO BREAK DOWN AND ANALIZE, NO PRACTICE FOOTAGE, NO PRACTICE PLANS, NO POSITION MANUAL, NO DRILL PROGRESSION....THINK ABOUT IT.
I HAVE BEEN IN MY NEW BOSSES EAR A FEW TIMES ABOUT STUFF, IM GOING TO GET FILM FROM HIM JUST SO I CAN FIND OUT "WHATS THE FOOTWORK FOR THE TAILBACK ON THE 40 SERIES" STUFF THAT IM LEFT TO FIGURE OUT MYSELF OTHERWISE. SEE MY POINT? IT TAKES EFFORT TO GET EVERYONE ON THE SAME PAGE...ALOT OF EFFORT.
YOU CANT JUST HAND EM A PLAYBOOK AND SAY "RUN THIS" AND EXPECT THE COACHES TO TEACH THE PROPER STEPS ETC. WE DONT EVEN TEACH REACH STEP THE SAME WAY....I EMAILED THE BOSS TO FIND OUT WHAT FOOTWORK THEY USED ON REACH, WHAT THEIR STANCES WERE FOR OLBERS, HOW DEEP ARE THE LBERS? DO THEY TILT THE CORNERS? ETC....AS I SAID, WHEN IM THE BOSS ILL CLINIC THE PI$$ OUT OF MY LOWERS SO THEY KNOW ALL THIS...
ILL PICK UP ALOT OF THIS STUFF FROM ATTENDING THE VARSITY CAMP...FIRST YEAR GROWING PAINS HERE...IM JUST HAPPY AS A CLAM TO BE WORKING FOR A GUY WHO HAS A PLAN AND CAN ANSWER THESE THINGS. THERE ARE ALOT OF GUYS OUT THERE WHO DONT KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS..."DUH, SHOOT, I DUNNO...NOT SURE WHAT OUR OLINE COACH TEACHES THEM? I HAVENT SEEN HIM SINCE NOVEMBER...NOT SURE IF HES EVEN COMING BACK?" (YOU ALL KNOW GUYS LIKE THAT)
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