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Post by blb on Dec 11, 2012 6:36:41 GMT -6
Our state is going to adopt some new restrictions on practice similar to what NCAA has been doing:
If you have a day of two padded practices the next day can only be one no-pad practice.
You can only have consecutive days of two practices if one each day is no pads.
No "Bull in the Ring" or "Oklahoma" drills, other restrictions on full contact.
No practice to exceed 2:30.
In-season no pads on Mondays and Thursdays.
For those of you in states that already have similar rules, how do you organize your Pre-Season practices?
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Post by CoachFetty on Dec 11, 2012 8:56:10 GMT -6
wow,, those sound pretty restrictive
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Post by blb on Dec 11, 2012 9:14:42 GMT -6
wow,, those sound pretty restrictive We had no input (including our coaches' association as far as I know), they were just mandated from on high (MHSAA Representative Council). Didn't say I'm in favor of them, just have to deal with them. In my experience the people who are tasked with hiring Football coaches are the least qualified to do so. Apparently that applies to those administering our sport as well. |
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Post by mitch on Dec 11, 2012 10:08:47 GMT -6
The shyte you have to deal with in this profession gets more ridiculous every day.
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Post by coachklee on Dec 11, 2012 11:32:04 GMT -6
Our state is going to adopt some new restrictions on practice similar to what NCAA has been doing: If you have a day of two padded practices the next day can only be one no-pad practice. You can only have consecutive days of two practices if one each day is no pads. No "Bull in the Ring" or "Oklahoma" drills, other restrictions on full contact. No practice to exceed 2:30. In-season no pads on Mondays and Thursdays. For those of you in states that already have similar rules, how do you organize your Pre-Season practices? Holy strawberries Batman, we're in a jam! |
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Post by coachklee on Dec 11, 2012 11:45:51 GMT -6
If you have a day of two padded practices the next day can only be one no-pad practice. You can only have consecutive days of two practices if one each day is no pads. No practice to exceed 2:30. I guess not knowing what others have done and what has basically happened in the past, I would never had a day of two padded practices in the pre-season. My thinking is that the 1st practice would include walk throughs of the schemes that are being installed that day or review of previous schemes. Then run throughs with the defense holding bags for the offense. Some defensive formation recognition and alignment. Work through blitzes with the defensive front. Get 7 on t done in the non-padded practive. Defensive pass rush & offensive pass pro. I guess the only thing that is a real pain with the rules is if you feel that you need more full speed contact, you can't do two full contact practices. In-season no pads on Mondays and Thursdays. After about the 4th or 5th week of practice at the last two places that I've coached at...would just make it happen earlier. Monday is mostly walk through stuff...defensive alignment and reads. Offensive focus vs. likely front/fronts. Thursday is a polish day and been quite short anyways. Question: This rule is applied the same for both Varsity and JV hopefully? I've become a firm believer that JV should be in full pads on Wednesday and have pretty much a regular practice. They aren't restricted to something completely ridiculous such as 1 day of pads during the season, are they? |
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Post by dubber on Dec 11, 2012 12:21:38 GMT -6
Our state is going to adopt some new restrictions on practice similar to what NCAA has been doing: If you have a day of two padded practices the next day can only be one no-pad practice. You can only have consecutive days of two practices if one each day is no pads. No "Bull in the Ring" or "Oklahoma" drills, other restrictions on full contact. No practice to exceed 2:30. In-season no pads on Mondays and Thursdays. For those of you in states that already have similar rules, how do you organize your Pre-Season practices? How do they define just helmet and shoulder pads? I beat the old school Dead T coaches are pulling their hair out. |
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Post by cqmiller on Dec 11, 2012 12:23:53 GMT -6
Our state considers "any organized activity with coaches and players" as a practice...
Which means that it is illegal for me to have the kids lift in the AM and go to practice in the afternoon 2 days in a row...
I know others don't follow, but I make sure I follow the rules. You just have to be very specific with what you want to get done in the time you have. Doesn't matter if we have shells, no pads, full pads, etc... a practice is a practice, so we need to maximize what we get out of the time we have.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 11, 2012 13:30:17 GMT -6
Our state is going to adopt some new restrictions on practice similar to what NCAA has been doing: If you have a day of two padded practices the next day can only be one no-pad practice. You can only have consecutive days of two practices if one each day is no pads. No "Bull in the Ring" or "Oklahoma" drills, other restrictions on full contact. No practice to exceed 2:30. In-season no pads on Mondays and Thursdays. For those of you in states that already have similar rules, how do you organize your Pre-Season practices? WTF! You certainly got your hands on some insider information with this one Coach. When will this be unveiled officially by the MHSAA? This will be a huge adjustment for all programs during the pre-season before Week 1. This could be an issue for some programs in-season although I don't think that's too much of a change. I wonder what impact this will have on weekend film? Can you still make it optional and have players attend or no? Would weekend film count as a practice. That could be a problem at least for us. We like to view our previous Friday night's game over the weekend so the focus during the week could be on our opponent. The amount of film time I would want to incorporate and still get practices in would be challenging for us. So there would certainly need to be some adaptation that took place in that regard. |
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Post by davishfc on Dec 11, 2012 13:53:17 GMT -6
I see the rationale for this. It's player safety and making sure that they don't practice excessively. But at a certain point, the realization needs to occur that if players are ill-equiped to participate in a football game, that could be a safety issue as well.
Let's face it, some coaches say football is a simple game of blocking and tackling and there's some truth to it. But to negate the mental and cognitive aspect of the game and just say it comes down to blocking and tackling is ridiculous.
Block your butt off but block the wrong guy and the RB is getting hauled off in the meat wagon. It takes time to develop an understanding and instinct of schemes and more importantly, schemes couple with techniques, in our players.
So at some point, there needs to be an understanding by the governing body for this sport that football practices cannot be held to the same time constraints as track or cross country, for example, or any other sports that are more technique/conditioning centered.
The work on the schematic understanding takes time and coaches can only simplify so much or develop great teaching progressions to such a degree. There eventually comes a time that those factors won't replace the need for "time" to develop that understanding.
I mean teaching football to a team is more intense than basketball (5 players) and baseball (9 players). A greater amount of moving parts means more things that can go wrong.
Set conditioning limits or something. Tell me how I can condition my players. But don't tie my hands so a kid that just needs time to get something is not allowed to have that opportunity. The game is played padded up. Let them practice padded up so they get good with those conditions.
Some kids look great in drills or with a helmet and shorts on but he can't play the game on Friday night. We just lost time to develop those kids.
Head coaches in Michigan will adapt and overcome this policy change. I don't doubt that for a second. But will this be the end of any sweeping change for football? It seems that not only with understanding the game but also with policy changes for high school athletics...only time will tell.
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Post by davishfc on Dec 11, 2012 15:37:59 GMT -6
At first glance, it looks like we would...
PRE-SEASON
-Continue with two-a-days (one padded and one no pads) for a total of 5 hours each day still. I think the consistent time invested rather than the two padded practices one day and only one no pads practice the next day is best. Two practices each day allows you to reinforce the concepts they're trying to learn. Obviously the game is played in full pads and the practice time in that is now limited. So that would need to be effectively overcome somehow.
-We don't run "Bull in the Ring" so no change there. We have done an "Oklahoma" Drill as an intensity boost early in the year. We also used it as a morale/enthusiasm boost later in the year when it was pouring rain and they don't really want to be out in it. Losing it would not necessitate a huge change.
-2 1/2 hours would be a challenging to have our whole team there consistently with school in session, but doable. We have about a half dozen kids who go to a tech center and don't get back until about 40 minutes after school. I can see us having to leave the practice field sometimes without being as sharp at certain things as we'd like to be to end the day. Never like to end on a negative note but if times up, there's no choice.
IN-SEASON
-No pads on Monday and Thursday would not be real tough. We basically walk through on Monday and sharpen things up on Thursday during pre-game practice. I used to go shells on Thursday but guys would catch knees to thighs and get charlie horses and deep thigh bruises. So I said "screw it" we're going full pads on Thursday. I can still see myself with as many kids as we have with all in one girdles, encouraging them to wear those under their shorts for that reason. No shoulder pads on Thursday will not be a huge issue although it is nice to know that your defense is sharp for a short period of plays the day before the game.
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Post by coachklee on Dec 11, 2012 20:44:47 GMT -6
So would a tutoring/study hall period be considered part of a practice?
Do you know if you watching/reviewing film is part of that time frame as well?
Is weightlifting after school considered part of that time frame?
If I were a head coach, I'd really like to do something like:
Monday-30 minutes Lift (Lower Body) before practice
Tuesday-30 minutes study hall before practice
Wednesday-30 minutes Lift (Upper Body) before practice
Thursday-30 minutes study hall before practice
I don't see myself doing that if that counts into a 2 1/2 hour practice reducing it to 2 hours
I think 2 1/2 hours is really ideal...and I suppose that 2 hours is doable, just feel like if you are a team with a lot of 2 way players, 2 hours is not enough
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Post by davishfc on Dec 12, 2012 7:14:41 GMT -6
So would a tutoring/study hall period be considered part of a practice? Do you know if you watching/reviewing film is part of that time frame as well? Is weightlifting after school considered part of that time frame? If I were a head coach, I'd really like to do something like: Monday-30 minutes Lift (Lower Body) before practice Tuesday-30 minutes study hall before practice Wednesday-30 minutes Lift (Upper Body) before practice Thursday-30 minutes study hall before practice I don't see myself doing that if that counts into a 2 1/2 hour practice reducing it to 2 hours I think 2 1/2 hours is really ideal...and I suppose that 2 hours is doable, just feel like if you are a team with a lot of 2 way players, 2 hours is not enough Study hall as a player at the high school and college levels were a waste of time. Tried study hall my first year of coaching and it was a waste of time. The kids that don't need it don't buy in. Now if you've got a team that's not going to field enough players or is close to it and eligibility is an issue then by all means, it makes sense. But if you've got some kids on the team that are struggling, make arrangements for them to stay in after school and everyone else heads out. Academics before football is still intact but a couple guys don't hold up the show. Yeah I know it's not a complete team concept but it is a life lesson for the rest of the team and that kid. "Just because you are not a participating in the organization at that particular time doesn't mean the organization ceases to have responsibilities and goals...so we forge ahead. We're confident that if the team is important enough to you, then we'll see you soon. But until then your academics are more important." That's really the message that's sent and should be communicated that way as well. Put it this way, we don't go to a player's home when he's sick and feed him chicken noodle soup, give him Nyquil, and tuck him in to bed. We go out to practice with a see you when we see you type attitude. Now do we call to check on him? Sure. But we didn't tend to him like what could be the situation with a few players on the team with academic issues. The kid has more he can do to change his situation than the team does. Does that mean that they can't motivate him? Absolutely not. They can interact with him but at least this way it doesn't have to be him trying to get his grades up with his teammates huddling around him for 30 minutes twice a week. What if the kid is SPED? So much for the least restrictive environment. |
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Post by JVD on Dec 12, 2012 7:23:27 GMT -6
BLB: When and where did you get that information?
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Post by davishfc on Dec 12, 2012 7:39:30 GMT -6
So would a tutoring/study hall period be considered part of a practice? Do you know if you watching/reviewing film is part of that time frame as well? Is weightlifting after school considered part of that time frame? If I were a head coach, I'd really like to do something like: Monday-30 minutes Lift (Lower Body) before practice Tuesday-30 minutes study hall before practice Wednesday-30 minutes Lift (Upper Body) before practice Thursday-30 minutes study hall before practice I don't see myself doing that if that counts into a 2 1/2 hour practice reducing it to 2 hours I think 2 1/2 hours is really ideal...and I suppose that 2 hours is doable, just feel like if you are a team with a lot of 2 way players, 2 hours is not enough As for the weight training portion. You were with me for four years so you know we never lifted during the season unless the players got it done in class during the school day. This was always the major problem, what do you do with those kids during that half hour if you have the team lifting before or after practice? They've already done more lifts with a greater amount of time during the school day. Make them lift again because that's what the entire team is doing? Counterproductive. Then you have to decide with transitions how much lifting will actually get done during that time. The whole team is in there trying to lift legs so you have to be sure you have enough equipment to accommodate the entire team whatever lifts you decide to do. Realistically with rotations that no doubt have to take place, how much lifting actually takes place? Would this time be better spent on punt protection to ensure you don't get a punt blocked? My thought has always been if the players were doing what they needed to before the season then they'd have the strength they need to compete. If they didn't do what they needed to, then 30 solid minutes of lifting twice a week, won't fix their lack of strength, power, and explosion. It's just not enough lifting to have any kind of return on that investment of valuable practice time with the kids. And we haven't even begun to discuss what the effort would be like in there as a whole. The players are banged up, not everybody is healthy, maybe some or most of them can't even do the lifts without being in pain. But they can play. So they're not lifting as hard as you hoped they would but they are among the best on your team, do you not play them now? Running is one thing and it's actually necessary for them to play the game. So they need to give some effort in conditioning segments. But I know I would keep kids out of that even if that were visibly banged up. Like our RB who we knew took a beating and knew would be able to go in the game but his shins were do jacked up they hurt like he11...exception. But lifting, at that point, how vital is it really? |
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Post by newhope on Dec 12, 2012 9:32:34 GMT -6
Similar restrictions already in place in NC, except for the Monday-Thursday thing (we don't wear pads on Thursday anyhow, though) and the no Oklahoma (we don't generally do that after the first day of hitting). I haven't found them to be excessive or restrictive---just made me do something I probably should have already beeen doing. By the way, 40 years of coaching and very old school coach here. We can have one day of two practices (one in pads, one not) and then the next day is a single practice (pads).
It takes a little more advance planning. We take the stuff we don't need pads for and put them in the second practice. We take the stuff we need pads for and put those in the padded practice. It's not really that big of a deal. This often goes on during scrimmage week, so we try to make the scrimmage the padded practice that day and the non padded one a film, installation and fundamental session.
We can all get used to the idea that if we want to keep this game, we're going to have to adjust to changes that keep the players safer from heat and concussion.
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