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Post by Mav on May 4, 2007 6:36:43 GMT -6
We haven't been satisfied with the 7on7 league we've been in for the last couple of years. We spoke with 5 other local teams who also didn't like how things were going. We'll be creating our own league and rules. Our primary complaint was how it was difficult to run anything close to our base offense(typically 40-50% of passing is playaction) because 7on7 defenses didn't align or react like what we'll see in 'real' football.
One thing we thought might make the defense react more realistically is if we allowed 1 running play pre set of downs. We agreed the main concern with this is being sure the other offensive players did not block and defensive player weren't overly aggressive with their 'tackle' - we use 2 hand touch. We also discussed extending the first down makers to 20 yards vs 15 we play with now.
Seems like it should work, but I'm sure there's reasons why this usually isn't allowed. Does anyone have any experience using limited running plays with 7on7? Any other things we should be concerned with?
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Post by coachd5085 on May 4, 2007 7:51:57 GMT -6
Mav--unless you are hell bent on having some type of competitive league, I would suggest you just organize PASS SKELLY practice. You can even script what you want... personnel groupings, down/distance situations (Run situation passes, Pass situation passes, some perimeter runs such as speed, toss, and the occasional interior draw)
With a little effort in organization, and all the coaches on the same page, I would think this would have a much greater benefit than the flag football tourneys.
As far as just having running plays, I am assuming you wouldn't be running Lead
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Post by airraider on May 4, 2007 7:57:49 GMT -6
We do the 1 run per series and it works great.
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Post by Mav on May 4, 2007 8:02:54 GMT -6
airraider, did you change any other rules? Was there any areas you think we need to be concerned with? We do the 1 run per series and it works great. |
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Post by Mav on May 4, 2007 8:12:41 GMT -6
coachd, that's how we originally set it up. We were going to just run pass skel with one or two other teams. Then it kind of grew into 6 teams as other coaches heard about our new passing league. We think it may be too hard to coordinate pass skel with all these teams, so we're attempting to come up with a competitive pass skel format. Mav--unless you are hell bent on having some type of competitive league, I would suggest you just organize PASS SKELLY practice. You can even script what you want... personnel groupings, down/distance situations (Run situation passes, Pass situation passes, some perimeter runs such as speed, toss, and the occasional interior draw) With a little effort in organization, and all the coaches on the same page, I would think this would have a much greater benefit than the flag football tourneys. As far as just having running plays, I am assuming you wouldn't be running Lead |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 4, 2007 9:53:49 GMT -6
Just a thought...If you could get all the HC's to agree to a format (and I don't see why ANYONE wouldn't agree to a nicely scripted format) you could set up the Pass skell practices that you WANTED...and then alternate the opposition. For example,
Week 1 Tigers at Bulldogs, Wolves at Skippers, Panters at Tornados.
Week 2 Bulldogs at Wolves, Tornadoes at Tigers, Skippers at Panthers...etc.
Sounds like I am beating a dead horse, but I really think you get 3 to 4 times the work out of a scripted/controlled practice than you do tournaments with scoring.
Once you put a scoreboard on it, Fall football can quickly take a backseat to all empty 5 wides vs 2 man coverage for an hour.
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Post by Mav on May 4, 2007 11:15:42 GMT -6
I'm in agreement - as coaches, it make complete sense. But a couple of the head coaches are afraid if we take the competitive 'game' aspect away, we'll have a harder time getting all of the kids there. Last year we had one practice and one game per week. We always had about 25% of the players miss practice, but they all made it to the games. During lifting and agilities, they always talked about each game and where they were in the standings, etc. Now we're trying to maintain the competitive, fun environment and make it more realistic. We're hoping being able to run once per set of downs will do this. Of course, during practices we'll run situational skelly. Guess we'll see how it goes... Anyone else have rule that allows run plays during 7on7? If not, does anyone have thoughts on what to watch out for? Just a thought...If you could get all the HC's to agree to a format (and I don't see why ANYONE wouldn't agree to a nicely scripted format) you could set up the Pass skell practices that you WANTED...and then alternate the opposition. For example, Week 1 Tigers at Bulldogs, Wolves at Skippers, Panters at Tornados. Week 2 Bulldogs at Wolves, Tornadoes at Tigers, Skippers at Panthers...etc. Sounds like I am beating a dead horse, but I really think you get 3 to 4 times the work out of a scripted/controlled practice than you do tournaments with scoring. Once you put a scoreboard on it, Fall football can quickly take a backseat to all empty 5 wides vs 2 man coverage for an hour. |
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Post by coachm on May 4, 2007 11:19:26 GMT -6
for a couple of series, we allow the offensive and defensive lineman of the offense to go at it during the play provided the opposing teams DC doesn't mind.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 4, 2007 21:42:03 GMT -6
I'm in agreement - as coaches, it make complete sense. But a couple of the head coaches are afraid if we take the competitive 'game' aspect away, we'll have a harder time getting all of the kids there. Last year we had one practice and one game per week. We always had about 25% of the players miss practice, but they all made it to the games. During lifting and agilities, they always talked about each game and where they were in the standings, etc. Now we're trying to maintain the competitive, fun environment and make it more realistic. We're hoping being able to run once per set of downs will do this. Of course, during practices we'll run situational skelly. Guess we'll see how it goes... Anyone else have rule that allows run plays during 7on7? If not, does anyone have thoughts on what to watch out for? I would think that practicing against another team would be more than competitive, and keep your attendance up. How many kids miss your preseason scrimmage/jamboree??? I can't see a quarter of the kids missing practice when you tell them that the crosstown Jaguars are coming to your place to practice. Maybe I have been lucky, but the kids I have coached in the past were competitive. In Drills, in conditioning, in weights, in practice against themselves, the offense, in scrimmages, in preseason jamborees..... I like the idea of teaching them to compete EACH PLAY. Not worry about the scoreboard, or moving the ball, or firstdowns, or touchdowns. Just concentrate on beating YOUR GUY, THIS PLAY. Once you get your 11 worrying about beating THEIR GUY on THIS PLAY, GOOD THINGS HAPPEN. I just don't think that any amount of rational thinking by the coaches ("We are just going to run our stuff..we don't care about winning in the summer..." ) holds court once scoreboards start running. It might start like that...but all of a sudden..everyone is calling 2man in the redzone on 3rd and 2 to cover the empty set.... |
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Post by Mav on May 5, 2007 7:24:41 GMT -6
Again, you're preaching to the choir, but we have a couple of head coaches who aren't sold on it. So we're moving on to plan B - try to develop new rules to encourage 7on7 games to be more realistic. Any other coaches 'been down this road'? All thoughts are appreciated. I'm in agreement - as coaches, it make complete sense. But a couple of the head coaches are afraid if we take the competitive 'game' aspect away, we'll have a harder time getting all of the kids there. Last year we had one practice and one game per week. We always had about 25% of the players miss practice, but they all made it to the games. During lifting and agilities, they always talked about each game and where they were in the standings, etc. Now we're trying to maintain the competitive, fun environment and make it more realistic. We're hoping being able to run once per set of downs will do this. Of course, during practices we'll run situational skelly. Guess we'll see how it goes... Anyone else have rule that allows run plays during 7on7? If not, does anyone have thoughts on what to watch out for? I would think that practicing against another team would be more than competitive, and keep your attendance up. How many kids miss your preseason scrimmage/jamboree??? I can't see a quarter of the kids missing practice when you tell them that the crosstown Jaguars are coming to your place to practice. Maybe I have been lucky, but the kids I have coached in the past were competitive. In Drills, in conditioning, in weights, in practice against themselves, the offense, in scrimmages, in preseason jamborees..... I like the idea of teaching them to compete EACH PLAY. Not worry about the scoreboard, or moving the ball, or firstdowns, or touchdowns. Just concentrate on beating YOUR GUY, THIS PLAY. Once you get your 11 worrying about beating THEIR GUY on THIS PLAY, GOOD THINGS HAPPEN. I just don't think that any amount of rational thinking by the coaches ("We are just going to run our stuff..we don't care about winning in the summer..." ) holds court once scoreboards start running. It might start like that...but all of a sudden..everyone is calling 2man in the redzone on 3rd and 2 to cover the empty set.... |
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Post by 3rdandlong on May 5, 2007 10:16:32 GMT -6
The only reason I like passing leagues/tournaments is because of the competetiveness, but for the most part they are usually very unrealistic. You have linebackers playing way out of the box and you have OCs that have their back run a route right down the middle of the invisible offensive line. This can be very frustrating.
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Post by ocinaz on May 5, 2007 11:34:09 GMT -6
We played a couple games where you are able to run the ball once a series...We run our stuff regardless.....When we get into leagues and tourneys we still run our play action stuff, just wont fake the run....We just want to get as many reps at our offense as possible....
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Post by touchdowng on May 5, 2007 12:29:15 GMT -6
About 12 years ago we ran a 7 on 7 for 8 teams. Two of the teams ran option (flexbone) as their base O.
To accommodate them we made the double option part of the format.
Everyone agreed and it worked out great.
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Post by jhanawa on May 7, 2007 12:11:43 GMT -6
I like having perimeter run game as part of 7 on 7, particuliarly as we run the option.  Against bail out LB's, why not just hit shallow until they play honest? We have a 5yd rule (lb's cannot line up deeper) and allow perimeter run and draw. |
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Post by airraider on May 7, 2007 19:22:43 GMT -6
airraider, did you change any other rules? Was there any areas you think we need to be concerned with? We do the 1 run per series and it works great. We did the 40 yard field and did to the 20, then to the 10. once inside the 10 you got 4 downs. You could go for 1 from the 3 and 2 from the 5. Other than that there were no real rule changes. Some of the things I really felt were cheap was being that we did the shorter distances, people would dump to their backs at like a yard deep were you Dline would be and they would run for 5 or 6 or more before you could touch them. Most tournaments do from the 45 with 15, 15, and 10. |
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Post by Coach Huey on May 7, 2007 19:31:22 GMT -6
for a league, try establishing some pre-snap rules .... i.e.
1) no defender may align deeper than 15 yards from los
2) at least 2 defenders (lb's) must be in the "tackle box" and no deeper than 5 yds from los unless the offense aligns in an empty backfield -- may alter rule for 3rd & long situation (+10 yds to go, etc.)
3) change to time a qb has to throw the ball (go from 4 seconds to 3.5 or even less) -- this can be adjusted based on field position .. i.e. red zone qb has 3 seconds, etc.
basically, make a list of "complaints" about what you dislike about 7 on 7 and try to develop rules or guidelines to help negate these effects.
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Against bail out LB's, why not just hit shallow until they play honest? We have a 5yd rule (lb's cannot line up deeper) and allow perimeter run and draw.
