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Post by gdn56 on Nov 26, 2012 17:37:45 GMT -6
I know that many of you smaller school coaches out there have ran into this problem. We are a 2a school and every sport has to share athletes. I work with the varsity Oline and coach the throwers for the track team. We do not have an athletic period so our football guys have to work out before or after school. We are running into the problem of having guys miss the weight room to participate in other sports, or not go out for other sports (that they could help in) because they don't want to miss the weightroom. Case in point, our indoor track practice started today, and our RB is the defending district champ in the 100 and 200. He is saying he is not going to run because he wants to be in the weightroom. I am caught in the middle of this, as I work with both programs. It is a tough spot for me to be in, as I sympathize with the track coaches who need the kid to sprint, and I understand that his position coach needs him in the weightroom for football as well. Just wondered how some of you guys have handled similar situations in the past. It is important to note that there is some degree of tension between the rest of the track staff and the head football coach that goes back several years. This has the potential, I think, to hurt both programs.
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Post by realdawg on Nov 26, 2012 17:41:08 GMT -6
So why can't he come before school?
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Post by wybulldogs on Nov 26, 2012 17:48:13 GMT -6
I've always felt that as long as a kid is doing something (participating in another sport), that I would stay off of their back during the downtime of winter and spring. They are staying active, they are staying competitive, and aren't sitting at home getting out of shape.
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Post by gdn56 on Nov 26, 2012 17:52:24 GMT -6
Realdawg, I didn't really make the point adequately. He could come before school and still participate in track. The problem is, he has actually been encouraged by his position coach not to go out for track, so that he can focus solely on the weight room. In terms of the actual scheduling, he could do both. The issue I am having is the emphasis. Another example is the basketball program, as players are not allowed to come lift at all. Even if they wanted to come in the morning and had no bball practice that afternoon, they are not to get in the weightroom. Seems like a lot of people pulling in opposite directions.
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Post by realdawg on Nov 26, 2012 18:03:03 GMT -6
In a perfect world we wouldn't have to share. Unfortunately we do. We are fortunate in that all our kids have weight lifting during the school day either 1st or 2nd block. Most of our basketball and track teams play football. They lift every day. Now on game days we do let them off light. But on practice days they lift just like everybody else. His position coach should not be encouraging him to skip track. He should be encouraging him to run track and lift before school. We would never try to keep a kid from playing another sport bc chances are after hs they are done. We would encourage him to make sacrifices for himself and the team. That is easier to do knowing he has weight lifting during the day however.
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Post by highball007 on Nov 26, 2012 18:07:38 GMT -6
AD needs to get all coaches on the same page! The AD needs to catch the basketball coach up to 2012 almost 2013! If the athletes make the decision to lift or not to lift it is on them, as long as they are involved in another sport. All coaches should be telling all kids that the weight room is a great way to get better at all sports. Basketball players should be lifting at least twice. Week if not three early on in the season. In door track should be in the weight room 4 days a week and then three as they start competing.
It boils down to getting all coaches on the same page, whatever page the AD turns to, everyone needs to be on it, and the AD needs to enforce his athletic department code of conduct!
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Post by mrjvi on Nov 27, 2012 16:34:11 GMT -6
And that is the problem. The AD!!!!!!!!! We have a situation just like GDN and it is VERY frustrating. All of our coaches are very possessive. "No one better touch MY athlete" to the point that they say if we lift in winter or spring, we are coaching football out of season. I need to calm down  |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 27, 2012 16:53:50 GMT -6
IMO, other sports are a priority in the off-season and I push them to do them. I'm not going to ding a kid for not lifting if he's participating in another sport. I'll encourage them to find a way to get into the weight room whether it's before school or in a weight training class but I always place that season's sports first. The kids are active, learning skills and becoming better athletes so I'm not going to b-tch.
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jjm
Sophomore Member
Posts: 133
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Post by jjm on Nov 27, 2012 17:48:21 GMT -6
Why isn't the weight room part of being on a team? The coaches should make time for team lifting. Here is a problem I have experience with. The football coaches, maybe track or baseball coaches, volunteer their time to supervise the weight room. The basketball coach (I know not all basketball coaches) never participates. During the basketball season they don't lift. He has undermined all the work and effort that has went into those shared athletes. It was mentioned above that your AD has to mandate a policy that is fair. That is the only way that it is going to work. Coaches have to be forced to not be so selfish.
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 27, 2012 22:22:44 GMT -6
In a perfect world we wouldn't have to share. Unfortunately we do. We are fortunate in that all our kids have weight lifting during the school day either 1st or 2nd block. Most of our basketball and track teams play football. They lift every day. Now on game days we do let them off light. But on practice days they lift just like everybody else. His position coach should not be encouraging him to skip track. He should be encouraging him to run track and lift before school. We would never try to keep a kid from playing another sport bc chances are after hs they are done. We would encourage him to make sacrifices for himself and the team. That is easier to do knowing he has weight lifting during the day however. I disagree, in a perfect world we'd all share and not fuss over it. Everybody's teams are better when you have more good athletes playing lots of different sports. |
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Post by mrjvi on Nov 29, 2012 19:34:38 GMT -6
Why isn't the weight room part of being on a team? jjm-my thoughts exactly.
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Post by fballcoachg on Nov 29, 2012 21:32:42 GMT -6
Don't know if this means anything but I was reading the paper today about the top 15 freshman basketball players and they had little bios, only 3 or 4 of them played another sport...it was honestly something that really frustrated me and I understand the possible time lost in the weight room but maybe we should try and make concessions to maximize the multi-sport athletes we have and encourage more. We all talk about numbers and maybe if we took the initiative on this other coaches would follow?
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jjm
Sophomore Member
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Post by jjm on Nov 29, 2012 23:17:29 GMT -6
I really think other coaches would. The school I mentioned above had the peeing in each other's coffee cup thing going on. I ran the weight room so I think right away they thought I was just promoting the weight room. I made it clear that I was not and proved it by getting a lot of the kids involved in other sports. The wrestling coach saw this and we had a great relationship. He would mention kids to me for football and we would talk about getting more kids out for sports. I don't think you can always win all of them over but, if you can get a few on board, it can make a lot of difference. I have noticed that with real successful programs, they manage to get their coaches on board. I think that continuity between the programs is very important and seems to be a common theme with athletic and academic success.
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Post by shields on Nov 30, 2012 5:12:50 GMT -6
I personally believe the parents are as much at fault as anyone. I am the head football coach at the smallest 3A high school in NC so it is imperative that we share athletes. The single best athlete in the school plays only baseball. I have been after him to try football for three years. He throws with the football guys all year long on weekends when he isn't playing baseball. He wants to play football but his DAD refuses to let him-afraid he will get hurt. I had a freshman three sport athlete quit football on Wednesday during the last week of the regular season because winter baseball practice started. There are coaches telling this 9th grader if he quits football and basketball they ccan guarantee him a future in the MLB! NO ONE CAN LOOK AT A 14 YEAR OLD KID AND GUARANTEE HIS FUTURE!! I don't blame the kid for believing them, he's young and innocent, I blame those coaches telling him that and his parents for buying into that CRAP!!! A 5'9" basketball player quit football after the seventh game of the season because he got hit pretty hard on a play. He got scared that if he continued to play football he would get hurt and miss basketball season (he believes his future is in college basketball). Sorry, I had to vent and share my two cents worth on this topic. I feel as though I know this topic VERY WELL because I live it EVERY DAY.
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Post by coachbuck on Nov 30, 2012 5:22:19 GMT -6
shields I agree its either the parents or the coaches telling these kids that they will be the next big thing. The other problem is if you dont commit fully to a coaches program he will ding you on the team. The school Im leaving has a very good basketball team. He works his kids out all year long. None of them play football, he wont allow it. We have some very good athletes on the football team that would help the b ball team but the b ball coach wants none of it. It all comes down to the a.d. but most of them dont have the b@lls to correct the situation. H.S. kids should play and enjoy as much of the high school expeirence as possible.
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Post by mrjvi on Nov 30, 2012 7:20:40 GMT -6
If we had a unified program where all teams did a progressive program for all 4 years of the athletes HS I would be overjoyed. I want kids to enjoy all sports and the cream will rise to the top even with 3 sport athletes plus it may give them some great choices fo post HS. I spent alot of time designing one but "territory" once again. I don't care where they get stronger as long as they are doing it progressively and correctly. A unified program implemented by the AD would help alot with getting kids out for multiple sports. A school in our division has mandatory strength training for every sport. They have been to the state final for the last 4 years and won it this year. All of their sports are near or at the top. It's not an accident. I had more athletes than this team for the last 2 years but we still can't beat them because they are stronger across the board.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 30, 2012 8:46:24 GMT -6
A lot of coaches demand the kids weight train while playing another sport but what if the shoe was on the other foot? How p-ssed off would you guys be if the basketball coach told the football players that they needed them to attend open gym before school or after practice was over? Hell, I know a lot of guys that would be furious if another coach wanted the kids involved in their own weight training program during football season.
Yeah, it's great to open up the weight room before school so that multi-sport kids can hit the weights, if they want to. But, IMO, it's not fair to tell the kids that football still needs to be a priority for them while playing another sport.
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Post by fantom on Nov 30, 2012 9:04:15 GMT -6
A lot of coaches demand the kids weight train while playing another sport but what if the shoe was on the other foot? How p-ssed off would you guys be if the basketball coach told the football players that they needed them to attend open gym before school or after practice was over? Hell, I know a lot of guys that would be furious if another coach wanted the kids involved in their own weight training program during football season. Yeah, it's great to open up the weight room before school so that multi-sport kids can hit the weights, if they want to. But, IMO, it's not fair to tell the kids that football still needs to be a priority for them while playing another sport. That's exactly how I feel about it. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 30, 2012 9:08:21 GMT -6
Hear! Hear!
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Post by jrk5150 on Nov 30, 2012 9:45:55 GMT -6
A lot of coaches demand the kids weight train while playing another sport but what if the shoe was on the other foot? How p-ssed off would you guys be if the basketball coach told the football players that they needed them to attend open gym before school or after practice was over? Hell, I know a lot of guys that would be furious if another coach wanted the kids involved in their own weight training program during football season. Yeah, it's great to open up the weight room before school so that multi-sport kids can hit the weights, if they want to. But, IMO, it's not fair to tell the kids that football still needs to be a priority for them while playing another sport. I would agree with you in general, but not necessarily for every specific situation. First - that basketball coach is doing his kids a SERIOUS disservice keeping them out of the weight room, even during the season. I can't emphasize that enough. He's WRONG. I understand it's his team and his choice, but he's hurting the team and the individual players with that choice. I'm not sure there is a sport out there that doesn't benefit from regular weight room work, including sports like baseball and golf. And while there are certainly exercises that are sport specific, most of what I've seen/heard holds that ANY legitimate weight work is far better than NO weight work. Second - if you had a kid on the football team and you knew that basketball was his main sport, you'd really be p*ssed if he was doing a basketball workout before school? And I want to keep this apples to apples - I'm talking a workout, not open gym playing where injury is a greater risk. I'm talking shooting drills, etc. Or a baseball player throwing or hitting in a cage. As long as the time wasn't taken FROM your sport, I can't imagine why you'd care about that. |
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Post by mrjvi on Nov 30, 2012 10:19:31 GMT -6
jrk-I agree. I encourage kids to take a day or 2 a week to work on shooting skills for basketball if that area needs work or go to a batting cage a couple times a week. Or go skiing for that matter. I would also encourage any kid who wants to be a throwing QB to spend a couple days a week throwing. These are individual sport skills, not general workouts. Most of those skills do nothing for another team's sport and don't have a high energy drain. Strength training helps them all and I wish it was part of their programs. I understand you guys with the "hands off" approach and I tried that for about 4 years 7 years ago-a conscious effort on my part. Worst 4 years I've ever had. Since I've re-pushed strength work to everyone for the last 3 we are NEAR the top again. If I have to just accept it, I should get out. Lastly, since when is wanting the kids to strength train year round just for football?  ? And yes, kids do go to all kinds of open gyms and other activities during the FB season and all other seasons as well. |
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Post by jrk5150 on Nov 30, 2012 10:42:13 GMT -6
2. Yeah, I'd be upset if they were pressuring the kids to attend those open gyms the same way many football coaches pressure the kids to lift weights. Yeah, I'm going to jump his sh-t if I hear the kids saying that "Coach ______ says we have to come to open gym if we want to play." I hear that out of football coaches all the friggin time. I'm not sure we're completely disagreeing here. I can't stand the "do this in the off-season to get playing time" crap either. Playing time should be primarily earned based on attitude and ability from the first day of practice to the last day of practice, not in the friggin off-season. I will grant that it's one thing if one kid is dedicated to the off-season program and the other kid was laying on his couch eating Doritos, but participating in another sport should count as much if not more than participating in an off-season program during that season. But the "do this or sit the bench" isn't exactly what I was referring to here. I guess I'm talking more about a collaboration - I was offering my analogy under the condition that the basketball coach isn't being a pr*ck about the weight room. If he's encouraging/allowing "your" kids to be in the weight room during hoops season, I would imagine you'd have no problem with "his" kids doing some shooting drills during the fall. And realizing I'm getting a bit specific here, but IMO, the weight room is different than a batting cage or doing shooting drills. Kids SHOULD be brow-beaten to get into the weight room year round. Not at the threat of playing time per se, but because it's the right place to be. I was a 3 sport athlete, with basketball being my primary thing. I WISH I had been forced to be in the weight room all year, regardless of what coach did the arm twisting. |
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Post by mrjvi on Nov 30, 2012 11:51:20 GMT -6
If I could get them to show up strong in the fall, I wouldn't care how they did it. From my 30 years of records, my TEAMS with the best squat and clean strength (except for 1)have been my best records. More specifically, regardless of talent, when I got 10 kids or more at my levels in these lifts, we challenged for the sectional championship. (the one year we did well despite the strength levels though my back was the state player of the year-also the best pound for pound lifter I've ever coached) I would even accept the other coaches honestly saying the lifting was OK instead of the many who "forbid" it. I know there are alot of factors in winning seasons but these numbers are interesting. Back to the origin of this thread, we share lots of athletes in Middle School, then very few. For the last 4 years no more than 2 varsity athletes each year have played football, basketball and baseball. SPECIALIZATION BABY  |
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Post by blb on Nov 30, 2012 11:53:05 GMT -6
"No man can serve two masters."
During Football season I want their commitment-attention to be on Football. So no Off-Season workouts, Open Gyms, etc. for other sports.
We encourage our players to participate in as many other activities as possible, and a high percentage of them do.
If they are not in Winter or Spring sport (or if their in-season coach doesn't mind), they are expected to be in after school weight room - "Thou Shalt Not Vegetate."
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Post by jrk5150 on Nov 30, 2012 14:26:06 GMT -6
"No man can serve two masters." During Football season I want their commitment-attention to be on Football. So no Off-Season workouts, Open Gyms, etc. for other sports. I don't really agree with that, but not a big deal. The kids are in classes all day, it's not like they're 24/7 thinking football. Shooting around in the morning is less of a distraction than classes all day, LOL. But like I said - not a big deal, really. And looking back, I didn't touch a basketball from mid-August to Thanksgiving weekend, so it's not like I can say you're wrong or anything. |
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Post by jrk5150 on Nov 30, 2012 14:31:53 GMT -6
I guess we disagree on one thing; the year-round weight room involvement. I push the kids to hit the weights all year if they're not doing another sport but I won't do that to the multi sport guys. I feel that playing another sport is good enough to keep the kids in shape for the year. I'll encourage them to take a S&C class but that's the extent of it. I'm just not saying it right. I'm not saying YOU should push them in to the weight room. I'm just saying that kids should be in the weight room year round, regardless of what sport we're talking about. And I'm talking about all athletes, not just football players. Golfers would benefit from year round strength training. |
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 207
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Post by mc140 on Dec 2, 2012 13:33:50 GMT -6
The amount coaches fight over kids who will never play after high school or D3 at best is mind boggling. I have yet to come across a scholarship level athlete who would not of been if he did not specialize.
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Post by fantom on Dec 2, 2012 14:31:45 GMT -6
The amount coaches fight over kids who will never play after high school or D3 at best is mind boggling. I have yet to come across a scholarship level athlete who would not of been if he did not specialize. Reply deleted. Reading is Fundamental. |
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Post by amthd45 on Dec 2, 2012 17:43:50 GMT -6
Having dealt with this there is only ONE solution:
Push, pull, scream, kick, yell to get a Weightlifting class. That eliminates kids have to committ to coming before or after school to lift. That way you do get them for the year lifting. However, in sharing athletes, they still will not lift year round cause on game days and thinkj about how basketball and baseball can play 3 games a week, they will not want to lift on game days (even though it doesnt hurt, but their seasonal coaches wont care to listen to the actual science behind it).
I am going thru this now. I have found that when you have to share athletes, ONE program is the benefactor and the rest play a supporting role. I am at a baseball school and football plays 3rd fiddle behind baseball and basketbal. I dont think it is possible to have all 3 sports be dominant while sharing athletes. Its the reason Bear Bryant didnt stay at Kentucky. He knew he could never build a football power there being in the shadow of Adolph Rupp.
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Post by coachbdud on Dec 2, 2012 17:57:07 GMT -6
We struggle with this too
Were not very good in any sport at my school
Kids are at least semi excited about football and lifting and a couple of underclass men have told the Frosh and JV basketball coaches I'm either going to be late to practice after I lift or I'm off the team
I'm not trying to start a divide or make kids choose but I'm proud of them that they want to lift and value it
I have one returning OL who plays var basketball, they practice at night so he will lift right after school before practice...
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? And yes, kids do go to all kinds of open gyms and other activities during the FB season and all other seasons as well.
