coachh
Junior Member
Posts: 336
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Post by coachh on Nov 20, 2012 21:17:46 GMT -6
How do you go about choosing where players will play in a Two Platoon system. Our staff is having an argument. 1) Put them where we need them or 2) let them pick where they want to go, then eventually put them where we need them. Concern if we go with 2 then we waste valuable time or go with 1) we lose players by forcing them to play where we need them.
Thoughts, thanks
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 20, 2012 21:37:56 GMT -6
How do you go about choosing where players will play in a Two Platoon system. Our staff is having an argument. 1) Put them where we need them or 2) let them pick where they want to go, then eventually put them where we need them. Concern if we go with 2 then we waste valuable time or go with 1) we lose players by forcing them to play where we need them. Thoughts, thanks We don't two platoon, but we talk about the samething. We have always allowed the players to choose where they want to play in camp and let them shows us what they got. After letting them go where they want for a few days we then start to move people around if needed or if we feel they would have more success at a dfferent position. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using proboards |
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Post by Coach Huey on Nov 20, 2012 22:20:02 GMT -6
there probably isn't one answer to this question. so much involved. basically, you must evaluate what you need from each position ... then, which players can bring that to it .... then, where do you need the most help ...
it is very complicated. we 2-platoon - and have for some time. we spend countless hours in the offseason evaluating kids, trying them at positions to see where they have a natural fit. we also look at depth ahead of them and behind them. the 2nd best LB may actually be the best TE, so maybe he goes over to offense if there is a decent 3rd LB, etc.
basically, it's up to your staff.
the main thing is not to get greedy, i.e. the OC says "i need all these guys so we can score 40" even though that leaves the defense with no one. there must be balance. each coach must be professional enough to say, "this guy could really be a good wr if i had him all the time, but he is our best safety so it benefits us more to put him there."
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Post by airman on Nov 20, 2012 22:27:07 GMT -6
We platoon at all levels soph, jv and varsity. we let them pick their soph. year and then make adjustments.
It is not often that hard to get a 2 or 3 string wr to move to db with a shot at playing.
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Post by realdawg on Nov 21, 2012 5:32:36 GMT -6
One way I have heard of doing it is offense picks the qb and best linemen first. Next 11 picks go to the defense.
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Post by mrjvi on Nov 21, 2012 10:41:01 GMT -6
I tried agin to 2 platoon this season after 2 failed attempts @15 years ago. I thought sure we were able to this year. Started the season 1-3 and midway realized we just weren't that good all around so put the top athletes on both sides with only about 4 not going both ways. We went 4-1 after that. I would LOVE to 2 platoon but it just won't happen again after 3 tries in 32 years. The best I could shoot for is to have only 5 or 6 going both ways-at least at our school. I gave more prefernce to defense when we tried it.
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Post by agap on Nov 21, 2012 10:59:12 GMT -6
I tried agin to 2 platoon this season after 2 failed attempts @15 years ago. I thought sure we were able to this year. Started the season 1-3 and midway realized we just weren't that good all around so put the top athletes on both sides with only about 4 not going both ways. We went 4-1 after that. I would LOVE to 2 platoon but it just won't happen again after 3 tries in 32 years. The best I could shoot for is to have only 5 or 6 going both ways-at least at our school. I gave more prefernce to defense when we tried it. Were your guys all practicing on one side of the ball or were they practicing a position on both offense and defense? |
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Post by paydirt18 on Nov 21, 2012 11:13:47 GMT -6
I don't buy the excuse that two-platoon does not work. I have often read about guys who try it and then get away from it mid season due to a poor start. That right there is the problem.
2platoon is like anything else. You need to practice it. You need to commit to it. My first year I went to 2 platoon was in '08. I did so with 35 total guys. Basically it was a bastardized version with our 1s on O serving as our 2s on D. But what it allowed us to do was coach our kids up on the sideline. The end result is we ended up being a state qualifier.
It is HS football. And there are of course those HS kids who you can't keep off the field, but all and all this is a commitment and you have to believe that the average kid who gets all the reps at one position will become a good player.
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Post by brophy on Nov 21, 2012 19:05:44 GMT -6
here's what we did...... - take a pool of all your talent (soph - seniors)
- list their O & D position
- vote on which position this kid is better at (can contribute more at DE than OG)
- Put your best 11 defenders on defense
- figure it out on offense
kids wants to play LB but there is nobody better at FB than him? hmmm, yeah, well.....sorry |
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Post by brophy on Nov 21, 2012 19:11:36 GMT -6
I tried agin to 2 platoon this season after 2 failed attempts @15 years ago. I thought sure we were able to this year. Started the season 1-3 and midway realized we just weren't that good all around so put the top athletes on both sides with only about 4 not going both ways. We went 4-1 after that. I would LOVE to 2 platoon but it just won't happen again after 3 tries in 32 years. The best I could shoot for is to have only 5 or 6 going both ways-at least at our school. I gave more prefernce to defense when we tried it. i don't think its a thing you can dabble in. You've got to sell out as a 4-year program and do it because you believe it is whats best for your program then commit to having your coaches coach up those position groups because they all aren't going to be studs or get it right away you're going to get guys that may be your 3rd best choice for corner or 5th best DT, but what you get out of the system is no one else is getting the reps these kids will be getting so it falls on coaching (reps, drills, game planning) |
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Post by op4shadow on Nov 21, 2012 19:26:56 GMT -6
do everything possible to go best 11 on defense, minus your qb. you better have a damn good coaching staff if you want 2 platooning to work. you will have to make due at some positions...not many teams are blessed with 22 studs, one at each position. this is where you better have great coaches who take the time to coach them up, otherwise it will fail.
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Post by mariner42 on Nov 21, 2012 19:35:59 GMT -6
When my alma mater went to platooning my senior year, this is the staff did it:
1-OC picked first two picks. Ended up being QB and D-1 RB.
2-DC (HC) picked next 9 picks. Ended up being our best defense ever.
3-OC/DC alternated picks until defense was fully 2-deep. Offense took whoever was left that figured into playing offense, defense took the rest.
After that, certain players were identified as necessary 2-way guys. Our C/NT was one, our RB was the other. When the RB went down, our FS became a 2-way guy because we NEEDED his production on offense. Other than that, everyone played one spot.
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Post by mrjvi on Nov 22, 2012 8:22:07 GMT -6
My kids practiced mostly the one position on one side of the ball. It might still have come down to the talent pool. My 3 250+ pound o-linemen , even tired were still better than my 185 -200 pound d-linemen. Once I switched them and others to both way players we held the next 4 teams to under 100 yards of offense. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to 2 platoon. I admit I spooked early this year but the 2 years way back I stayed with it and was less than successful. I also don't usually get more than 25 kids on varsity in a school that is in the 2nd biggest classification.(too many "specialist" 1 sport athletes) I just had 35 this year. I'd agree on a multi year plan but my numbers may not support that. Thanks, though.
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Post by dubber on Nov 22, 2012 9:10:01 GMT -6
I'm going to throw out some tidbits from other coaches.....
*One guy would 2-platoon, but made sure he got an individual a week for their other position. So, the starting FB got 1 LB individual a week.
*Another staff platoons their staff. They have two squads of players (starters and reserves). 1 squad starts with the defense staff, the other with offense. Halfway, they switch. This allows the coaches to spend one-on-one time with younger kids.
*Another guy has a "gold squad" personnel package for offense and defense. Basically, he asks himself who his BEST eleven are, and in key situations, will get them all on the field. Ex. 4th down, 4th and 3, last chance for the opponent who is down a touchdown.............get your best 11 on the field.
In my mind, the real limit on this the coaching staff. If they lack the talent or desire, it will not work. If there aren't enough coaches it's an issue.
Logistically, what would you suggest are the minimum coaching staff requirements?
If I have a staff of 4-------- an OC, and OL coach, a DC and a DL coach------------ is that enough to platoon?
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Post by coachdawhip on Nov 22, 2012 9:31:35 GMT -6
A combo of brophy said and mariner42
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coachpsl
Sophomore Member
“Don’t Cuss. Don’t argue with officials. And don’t lose the game.” -John Heisman
Posts: 197
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Post by coachpsl on Nov 22, 2012 9:32:55 GMT -6
me and another assistant recently had a "draft" just to see what we could have next year if we bought all the way into 2-platooning. We pulled out our returning middle linebacker and QB and considered those 2 automatics. Then we just picked back and forth until we had 2 deep across both sides. Our starters looked servicable, our 2's would be catastrophically bad.
But heres the thing, would it be worth it if by practicing and getting double the indy time each day, would our servicable players become good players? Our catastrophically bad groups become servicable? Also, since we were by default putting more kids on the field, would our #s increase as kids possibility of contributing became greater? Maybe. I think if you really wanted to do this, your best bet would be to do it in a season where you would be in "down" or "rebuilding" years. That way you have a full year of double indy time to improve your roster.
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Post by coachplaa on Nov 22, 2012 18:39:03 GMT -6
I think the draft idea is a fun way to do it, but it hasn't been very realistic for us. We are a full-platoon team, and have tried it, and I've watched my offensive and defensive coaches get too strategic about it. And I can't help but think its not the right way in all situations.
When we first started platooning, we had the attitude that "we will tell our players what side they should play on" and if they didn't like it, we would tell them tough luck and they needed to be a team player.
We platoon at the varsity level only, and there are players at the JV & Frosh level that play both ways because of smaller numbers. What I have learned over the years is, as coaches if we sit down together and discuss what side of the ball is better for the player, it usually ends up having an improvement on our team.
I think the secret is looking at a kid's personality. Some kids are aggressive and frenzied. Those kids are obviously great on defense. Some are measured and precise. Our coaches agree with about 95% of our kids decisions. However, there are always a few kids that don't get it. Big slow kids that want to play D-Line, or clumsy unathletic kids that want to play defense but can't run. We've had more success talking to those kids into what is best for them, because kids these days want to know WHY and not just "this is how its gonna be."
This is just my opinion, but I feel like we are doing a much better job identifying and labeling kids today, compared to six years ago when we first started the platoon thing.
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Post by CoachCP on Nov 23, 2012 1:34:11 GMT -6
We do it at the Soph, JV, and Varsity levels. The freshmen learn both sides. This may put you at a slight disadvantage in practice time, but freshmen ball is about fundamentals.
Freshmen staff will move people as needed during that year, keeping long term position prospects in mind. The next 3 years, the kids know where they excelled, usually stick with it. Some things the HC gets involved in. Aka, anyone can play DL, got to protect the QB and RB. So best linemen go to offense. The absolute stud can help on D if needed, and can usually learn most of it pretty quickly. Better athletes, besides the top QB and RB, play defense as long as they are physical. Those two will play both ways (QB at DB if he does) if they're great athletes and there is a depth issue.
So we two-platoon 95% of the team. When we get the special kids, or a depth issue, we will play the best kids both ways as needed.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Nov 23, 2012 16:45:03 GMT -6
I got laughed at for suggesting a two platoon system at the youth level, but it makes tons of a sense to me, and I'd still like to do it. The major arguments against was that we didn't have enough talent at the youth level, and we wanted to develop kids as football players on both sides of the ball.
I think it's a pretty good idea because you need to play every kid for 5 downs each half anyways, which usually means you sub kids in on defense or offense for five downs and pray that you don't let the other team score or hope that you don't lose too many yards.
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Post by coachklee on Nov 24, 2012 9:02:05 GMT -6
I got laughed at for suggesting a two platoon system at the youth level, but it makes tons of a sense to me, and I'd still like to do it. The major arguments against was that we didn't have enough talent at the youth level, and we wanted to develop kids as football players on both sides of the ball. I think it's a pretty good idea because you need to play every kid for 5 downs each half anyways, which usually means you sub kids in on defense or offense for five downs and pray that you don't let the other team score or hope that you don't lose too many yards. Depending on the exact numbers, I totally agree that it is best to try to at least 2 platoon the "starting" line-up at a lower level. I think you still have an individual time for each person to learn an offensive and defensive position, but consciously try to get 22 "starters". Get everyone playing time...if it is close and you think a certain offensive starter will really help out on defense or a certain defensive starter will really help out on offense then make that call, but hopefully you have the 5 downs out of the way by then. |
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Post by smfreeman on Nov 24, 2012 9:19:41 GMT -6
We do not two platoon at the Varsity level (Tried but huge failure) but on JV we actually have a special platoon model that might be great for youth league. We have separate starters for Offense and Defense. If you start offense you don't start defense. Then we switch at the Quarter so for example we split our kids up by grade level like 10th graders start on offense and freshman start on defense then second quarter rolls around we switch and now sophomores play defense and freshman play offense.
I really like this because everyone gets to play both sides of the ball. We actually wear other teams out this way and it helps to still develop kids if the varsity needs them on offense or defense if someone gets hurt.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2012 17:12:05 GMT -6
Several of you have hinted at it, but evaluating what you have on the coaching staff is probably as valuable as evaluating that player pool. I know of two programs that two-platoon and they actually pick the OL LAST! They are so confident in their coaches ability that they know they'll make it work with whatever players they're given. And, these two coaching staffs have won multiple state titles in Illinois and Missouri.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 25, 2012 19:54:20 GMT -6
Several of you have hinted at it, but evaluating what you have on the coaching staff is probably as valuable as evaluating that player pool. I know of two programs that two-platoon and they actually pick the OL LAST! They are so confident in their coaches ability that they know they'll make it work with whatever players they're given. And, these two coaching staffs have won multiple state titles in Illinois and Missouri. The OL being "last" is not all that uncommon. That is generally how EVERY HS football team breaks down regarding lineman. |
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Post by Luther Van Dam on Nov 25, 2012 20:05:13 GMT -6
A few thoughts on my experience:
1. We were always two-platoon unless we had a really special player that needed to be on the field at all times.
2. Our staff was very good and could coach up the 2's into becoming serviceable players.
3. We felt that specializing on a particular position helped the less talented players improve more quickly.
4. Kids could pick a position in the spring, then we would adjust in the summer heading into fall camp. We picked based on natural ability at a particular position first, then by need.
5. We would rank all of our players as a staff. Each coach made a list of players 1-25 based on their overall value to the team, and we would give 25 points to #1, 24 points to #2, etc until we had our cumulative list. We then made sure that our top 22 were on the field if at all possible.
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