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Post by tothehouse on Jun 13, 2006 12:23:59 GMT -6
A new coach gets hired as a teacher at the school you are at and also coaches football.
The HC really pulls for the guy to get hired as a teacher, but also knows that he'll be an asset for the football program. Our HC has been extremely up front about duties and responsibilities for this coach.
This coach is told by the HC that he really pulled for him with Administration.
Now, the coach doesn't give up as much time to the program as the HC had expected (and told him he would need to do). Misses meetings, doesn't come to fundraising events, etc. Brand new teacher and new coach.
Looking for ways to deal with this because we are going to have a lot of new teachers/potential coaches the next few years and want to head off this situation before it hits again.
Thanks in advance.
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Post by fbdoc on Jun 13, 2006 12:32:49 GMT -6
20 / 20 Hindsight is a great thing. Make sure you don't go to bat for someone who might end up mailing it in after the hire.
Assuming your principal is on board, let the new hire know that he is being evaluated on his contributions to the "school community" and that his agreement to coach is not only being compensated through a stipend, but that his performance evaluation will be based on his teaching AND coaching effectiveness.
It's impossible to head off every one of these situations but pointing out specific duties both in and out of the classroom. Make sure the head coach continues to address what commitment vs involvement means at your school. Also need to look at both sides such as married, kids, getting a master's as well as "meeting just to meet."
That's my 2 cents.
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Post by los on Jun 13, 2006 13:05:50 GMT -6
Don't know for sure house, but my 5 kids always liked their coaches for being good teachers first(you know making the classes interesting and fun) and as a coach 2nd! If the guy is brand new maybe he just needs time to get his feet wet in the teaching dept.Personally, if it was my choice, I'd go with the best teachers first. If a "good teacher" can help and be an asset to a sports program, thats gravy! Then you got family issues you may not be aware of! Do they have young children of their own at home, does their spouse support them spending lots of time away from home, stuff like that! That seems a little like blackmailing the guy to me house, "we'll hire you as a teacher, if you'll commit to spending as much time as we see fit to coaching a sport!" C'mon now, its not the NFL.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 13, 2006 13:29:50 GMT -6
Los and Doc...I agree with everything both of you say, but when you are interviewed for a job and the expectations are laid out that should count for something. I am talking for teaching and coaching.
Teaching is first and foremost important, but again, his football expectations were laid out as well. He shouldn't have signed up to coach if he couldn't commit to what he already said "yes" to.
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Post by phantom on Jun 13, 2006 13:35:30 GMT -6
Los and Doc...I agree with everything both of you say, but when you are hired interviewed for a job and the expectations are laid out that should count for something. I am talking for teaching and coaching. Teaching is first and foremost important, but again, his football expectations were laid out as well. He shouldn't have signed up to coach if he couldn't commit to what he already said "yes" to. Especially since he got the teaching job at least in part because the HFC went to bat for him.
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Post by los on Jun 13, 2006 13:37:52 GMT -6
Thats true House, but we're all guilty of letting our big mouths overload our butts every now and then huh???
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 13, 2006 14:30:46 GMT -6
Los - That is why people should take into account everything before they sign up. This coach is young and just started a family. Understandibly he might need time there. I don't think he has communicated this to be an issue with the HC. I have failed to mention that he is a coach on the freshman staff. He already is not required to do as much as a coach at the JV or varsity level.
I am with Phantom on this issue. A guy steps up to the plate and swings hard to get this guy a spot should get more from him.
I look at it a lot of ways as well. This coach has stated he wants to move up and take control of the freshman or a higher level team at our school eventually. Wouldn't you, if you were in that situation, do everything you could possibly do to learn the ins and outs of the whole program?
Comes down to work ethic. Period.
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Post by fbdoc on Jun 13, 2006 15:02:16 GMT -6
The two things that stick out for me on this issue are:
Expectations were stated up front. Head Coach went to bat for him.
Los (and I) both alluded to the effect family - especially kids - can have on a coach's commitment. A good head coach will balance the work load against everyone's commitment to being a good husband and a good father.
Year's ago, I finally had to tell (calmly, professionally) a head coach that 7:00 - 9:00 PM was family time and that if he wanted me to come in after that, then I would. However, he and I realized that we (our staff) was doing a great job during the day and that extra time was not doing anything for us - except to be able to say we were "in the office" or "we're outworking those guys at State Univ." We even became more productive because we were rested and more enthusiastic about coaching!
I've tried to follow that line with my own staff the past 9 years as a head coach. There's work to be done, absolutely. There are expectations that are clearly defined to each coach and we expect them to honor their commitments. If someone finds they are unable to stick with their coaching duties then maybe you just cut your losses and move on. Just one man's opinion.
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Post by coachmyers on Jun 13, 2006 15:08:00 GMT -6
for what reasons is he missing things?
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 13, 2006 15:18:22 GMT -6
CoachMyers - If the HC is telling me he is upset by this I am guessing the reasons aren't to his liking. I don't know specifically. A lot of the frustration is the fact that there is NO communication on why he is missing.
Doc. I agree wholeheartedly. I have two boys 5 and 4. They are going to get busy. And in turn, my wife and I are going to get busy. I think you figure out what you can do. I know I will have to cut back somewhere. I am still trying to figure out where that will be, but I have an idea.
I believe what this coach is doing goes against what he was hired to do (football wise) because the reasons aren't extremely out of the ordinary. Like I said, meetings and coming to fundraising issues. Now, he did volunteer to work the study hall for our players and did a great job.
The crux is the fact that it is NOT a whole lot of extra work and the fact that he mentioned that he wanted to take on more of a coaching duty in the future.
For a guy who says that and then not to do a couple extra things is beyond me. Again, work ethic. Not working until your arms fall off. Basic stuff that you, Doc, have managed. This young coach needs to learn how to manage the tasks given to him.
The couple offseason meetings held to discuss sign ups and fundraising were attended by every other coach, at every level. Why is it different for him?
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jun 13, 2006 18:14:29 GMT -6
I’ve given this a little bit of thought. Perhaps someone needs to communicate with the new guy again… not in a condescending way, but in a way where expectations are clear and presented to him in a way that he can see the benefits. A lot of new teachers/coaches think education is great because of the “summers off”. I heard this, and believed it when I started. I think that most coaches look at it that way. Here on this board, we are hard core… which could be an indication that we are obsessive, driven, ultra-competitive workaholics. Or it could be that we just love the game, love what we do and enjoy putting extra time in because we are then giving our kids every opportunity for success. I did not understand that when I started… and it sounds like he doesn’t either.
LOS, I agree… this is not the NFL and athletics should be a second priority… but in any endeavor people should strive for success- though the definition of that will be different depending on where you are and what level you coach. I've got an ex-player painting inspirational phrases and murals in the LR and WR... because he wants the younger guys to always value the tradition we have built. He isn't going on to play anywhere (probably could though)... he's an artistic-type. But even a future Andy Warhol or Picasso or whatever... values the hard work and time we put in in the WR, conditioning and on the field.
I’ll be honest here- I’m not even in this profession without the coaching. Since I could coach, the district also got a pretty good teacher. But the truth is, if we do away with interscholastic athletics and go to club sports, I get another job. Given my classroom (and administrative) performance, I think the school district gets a good bargain, even if most of my mind is occupied by football related thoughts. I’m certain it is exactly the same with the other “football nuts” on this board. By nature we are people who have passion and will do what is needed to get a job done right... but some of us need to have someone show us our potential. I thought I worked hard my first two years... now I look at those years and realize I did a disservice to those kids.
If the new guy needs a summer job (and he might- coming out of school you are broke and wait until August to get paid in most cases), or if he is moving in to a new place, or if he needs to spend a lot of time at home… in my situation I am OK with coaches missing some summer events IF they let me know what is going on. I have a mutually agreed upon set of expectations- and my assistants get a lot of time off over the summer. But when I expect them there, they had better be there- and my assistants know that- they are all established and have been in for a while. Sometimes it is different with young guys- sometimes they still have that “kid in them” that makes it hard for a young guy to picture himself as a colleague- until you have “been there” and worked with coaches as peers… it can be kind of intimidating for some. Maybe he feels like avoiding you guys is easier than a confrontation filled with excuses on his end.
I guess one thing I would emphasize (with him) is the importance of summer time and how it impacts his involvement with the program and the school. I am assuming we are just talking about a few hours a week here… but still, being in that situation allows the players to get to know him and vice versa. That will certainly help the first few days in a new school. It is kind of overwhelming for a new teacher to come in to a big school and not recognize anyone. Having the players know him makes that transition smoother and could be a good boost to the school year.
Plus, if he wants to move up as a coach, he needs to prove he is capable. This isn’t to say that only good coaches are in those positions; there are plenty of good youth or middle school coaches who want to be at that level. But there is a difference in wanting to be there and having no other available options based on past history; inexperience can be easily conquered. Reputation can not. And if he gets the rep as a “fan with a whistle” (whoever said that… loved it), he is not going to move to a level he claims he aspires to reach.
Talk to the guy again… he may be blowing everything off… but if he is a young guy, he may not really know. I didn’t for about 3 years when I started. I was a Head Coach for two years… it was not until I was an assistant for a year (under a great guy… who is now my DC), that I really learned what it took to be successful… and I’m not just talking about wins/losses.
I’ve always told assistants I will give them the responsibility I think they can handle my DC is fully in charge of the D, my special teams guys are 90% in charge of what they do (a few things I‘ll override)… does he want to be a coach who works with players, teaches and molds young men… or does he want to be the guy who’s whole job is to yell “get back” during a game and is the guy who I always fire during the 3rd Qr. when things aren’t going well?
Sorry this is so long...
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Post by carson101 on Jun 13, 2006 18:25:35 GMT -6
House, In my experience as a Coach I committed every aspect of time to the program,community, and entirely to staff. Although i wasn't a teacher I held down three Companies, was a volunteer firefighter, Parent, and Coach in that order. I never missed scheduled meetings,practices,or community events. What I am saying is the love of the kids,program are important aspects to being a coach in the first place but I always kept family as first in line but when it came to my job as a coach thats what I was a coach. You have to coach for the right reasons completly if it is a family emergency thats different. As a motto I once heard it is either "commit or quit, there isn't time for excuses nor time for screwing around while your team mates{i.e. Coaches} are working their arses off so you can reap the rewards" I say if the guy can't commit he needs to walk its that simple. as Gary Butier{Remember the Titans} said "coach sometimes you just gotta cut a guy loose". I maybe a bit harsh to a point but knowing as a coach the commitment need for a program to continue to succeed If knowing my expectations before hand I wouldn't want to comprimise my integrity to those looking up to me, I would say reitteriate to the guy either your in for the long haul or lets part ways, I wouldn't say take his teaching career away but if he isn't gonna be accountable for his what it seems lack of interest don't wait until the season starts to find this guy missing practice.
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Post by bulldogoption on Jun 13, 2006 21:38:28 GMT -6
When most young guys get into coaching they have NO IDEA of all the time and effort that goes into a solid program. They simply don't realize what they are getting themselves into. This guy may be missing things but not realize how important it is for him to be there. He may see things as trivial as opposed to a lot of guys on this board who 'get it'. It may just take a few years before this guy realizes why he wants to be involved in all of the things he is missing now.
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Post by poweriguy on Jun 14, 2006 0:22:01 GMT -6
It's tough being a new guy at a new school. I know the feeling. Let me just throw some thoughts out.
Even though it was spelled out to the coach what was expeted of him at the begining, did your HC or other staff follow up with him to get him on board? Or was he told at the begining, and then left on his own?
Does he have a schedual of everything going on?
Does he know what things he should attend? Because when a HC says "all staff are required to attend" is that all coaching staff? Varsity staff? JV and varisty staff? all coaches? Does he know what is meant by "staff"?
Does he have a beef with, or intimidated by other coache(s) on the staff? Maybe someone feeling the same as the HC let fly with some unkind words and alienated him. Your HC needs to find that out.
I ask this stuff because I went through this. The HC was very vague on everything, and being the new guy, you are lost, intimidated, scared and all kinds of {censored}.
Definitly your HC needs to talk to this guy, but realize he is a FIRST year coach. So insted of cracking the whip, maybe find out whats going on and go from there.
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Post by lochness on Jun 14, 2006 4:48:42 GMT -6
Give him a swift kung-fu chop to the genitals twice. That will fix his wagon.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 14, 2006 11:03:10 GMT -6
LOL loch -
More details with this guy. He is NOT a first year coach. He has coached in the program. I might have not made myself clear. He is a FIRST YEAR teacher officially, but has coached in the program before.
He showed this "I'll show up when I want" behavior before, but it was known that he was more of a volunteer and that could be expected.
PowerI - Our HC lays it out for you and it is not just one time. He has had multiple talks with this young man. Again, good talks, not yelling at the guy or disrespecting him. This guy is familiar with how the program runs. He knows he has to give of himself more.
I don't get it. I am curious, now, how he is going to do with the football stuff that he needs to attend this summer and what his commitment level will be in the fall.
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Post by poweriguy on Jun 14, 2006 12:14:16 GMT -6
Yeah house, if that's the case, then some more drastic measures need to be taken. Cause one bad apple can ruin the whole lot, or however that saying goes. And sorry I missunderstood you man.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 14, 2006 14:09:12 GMT -6
Too all of you so far, thanks for the input. Though I am pretty sure I know the outcome of this situation I am grateful to you guys for your thoughts.
It is a difficult situation indeed.
Our HC goes to bat for people. He got me through the hiring process in 99. He got two other guys on board as teachers that after two years went a different direction. I think he looks at it like an investment. He likes to see guys move on, but would also like them to give a lot while they are here.
We set the bar high. Our players have to meet the goals....the coaches have to as well. And this guy knows that.
Bottomline, communication of everything is important. I think it is tough for a young guy to explain his needs to a HC. I suggest you do and make it fit within everyones best interests. I am constantly updating my HC about my life outside of football. It just works best when there is that line of communication.
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Post by coachmyers on Jun 14, 2006 15:31:14 GMT -6
And in turn, my wife and I are going to get busy. Good to know that you and your wife are still enjoying marriage! In all seriousness though, without knowing his whole situation, I would be hesitant to condemn. Yes, if he's missing he should be having an explanation but if there is a reason your coach knows about he should be able to communicate it to you (unless its some super secret personal matter) since the staff has a stake in his attendance. If it turns out he has no explanation, or a really poor excuse, cut his responsibilities, especially on Friday nights. It's just like the kids who claim to be gamers, you have to be able to handle the responsibility you have before you are given more.
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Post by carson101 on Jun 15, 2006 4:05:31 GMT -6
Hey, if its any consolation House I'm comn home soon if the spot is still there you know i'll be. not as a teacher of course but as a committed coach as before loyalty is the name of the game there and I know that. Being gone as I have been wasn't a choice but by the time I get back I should be out of the dying mode as its said, if not bury my butt at mid-field. i'll surely make a difference there i'll trip the competition every time they get the damm ball...........lol
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Post by cookiemonster on Jun 15, 2006 6:43:16 GMT -6
In Texas your first 3 years you are on a probationary contract and can be let go at any time and they do not even have to give you a reason. He would not have a job anymore if he were in Texas.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 15, 2006 17:13:19 GMT -6
Is that for teaching CM or coaching or both? In Cali. it is a two year probationary period. I think this guy is doing an okay job teaching.....from what I hear.
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