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Post by airraider on Nov 14, 2012 7:39:17 GMT -6
I wanted to get some feed back on parents as high school volunteer coaches.
As a HC I have never had a parent on the sidelines... but this year, we did.
Now, this is not your normal dad in terms of knowledge... He has been coaching here for years in both football and baseball. The HC and I both came in this year, and I think he welcomed in someone familiar with the situation.
Well, my QB I had last year ended up moving to town and came to our school instead of the local public school... and the kid is very legit (3034 yards and 37tds this year).
Well, the dad's son was a SR, as well as... QB... The other son was a WR, and we brought in 2 other really good WR's (30 yards per catch this year)
Well the QB son and the new QB shared reps all summer, but then the old QB had a shoulder injury and really couldnt throw very well.. so the new guy took over full time... and the other kid went to LB full time.
Well that is where the problems started... the old kid quit, then ended up coming back... the mom was putting things on facebook that where not very friendly...
All of that kind of washed over... but then the last few games of the season the little brother kind of fell off.. He got his in the back on a missed block on bubble and was "hurt" for a week or two.. then the second to last game another missed block on bubble put him out of the game...
Well on the sideline the dad is quoted as saying "if you block for another mf-er out there I will put my belt off and beat your a$$ right here in front of everyone".
The dad took his coaching hat off and put the daddy hat on and basically did what a parent would do... and did so in front of kids...
Well the kid basically quit... did not practice the next week and did not dress for our first round playoff game... because he was "hurt"
Well we lost, and on Monday he was at baseball practice hitting and pitching.
There have been 4 pretty bad incidents with this guy coaching this year... cussed a kid from another team, cussed and threatened a chain crew member... and a few others...
Well, my HC is taking a soft stance on him coaching next year... I think he feels that the only way for us to get the WR kid back out is if daddy is coaching... The kid is good, but he really nutted up on us this year and played way below his potential.
What would you do in this situation... we have talked about it... but I think he feels stuck... he is a nice guy and tends to not want to {censored} people off... (HC that is)
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Post by coachbw on Nov 14, 2012 8:15:18 GMT -6
I think it sounds like he has done some things that I wouldn't allow from a person in my program. My basic approach with parents is that if they are really interest in coaching they really need to have some experience, and they need to be in the program before (and as much as I can control after) their son is. I have brought a couple of guys on when their sons were middle schoolers, 9th graders, etc. to coach at the varsity level, but it was that they wanted to be a part of their sons program and not necessarily coach their sons team. I have never let the guys that just want to coach when their son hits varsity do it.
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Post by casec11 on Nov 14, 2012 8:16:49 GMT -6
"if you block for another mf-er out there I will put my belt off and beat your a$$ right here in front of everyone".
Is this a type-o or was he telling his Son not to block? If so he should have been let go then and there... at least had a talking to about what is proper sideline behavior.
I coach JV in a good program and there are a few Dads (most are former college players, and have coaching experience) that coach with us on Varsity thru freshman. The big thing is try to keep the interaction between father and son to a minimum. Don't coach position group, other side of the ball, different levels, NO SAY IN SONS POSITION COMPETITION ect... I cant say there has never been a problem but it seems that it gets cut out right away because the Heads wont have any of that.
Most of the Dads are great coaches and handle themselves perfectly, care about the program & all the kids.
Example: I was OC this season and our WR coach is talking to our QB mid season about the Defensive pressure and the DC in a scrimmage and the QB goes "you know hes my dad right?" The WR coach had no Idea.... that's the way it should be.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 14, 2012 8:57:23 GMT -6
It sounds like a bad situation because he can't separate himself from his daddy-role.
I have worked with some phenomenal father coaches over the years. In fact, the best coach I have ever been around had four boys go through a program.
But, a PITA daddy coach can cause some serious strife in a football program. I had one coaching under me a few years back and he threw a screaming fit in a film session because someone allegedly stole his kid's Gatorade.. There were issues like that all year long.
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Post by fantom on Nov 14, 2012 9:15:31 GMT -6
Well on the sideline the dad is quoted as saying "if you block for another mf-er out there I will put my belt off and beat your a$$ right here in front of everyone". A guy says that on the sidelines and you have to ask what to do with him? |
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Post by chi5hi on Nov 14, 2012 10:04:14 GMT -6
I don't mind parents volunteering for the snack bar, or the chain gang, chalk the field or carry water. But unless the parent is a team physician I'd rather they stay away from the sideline.
I've had parents seriously bother me for some kind of place as a volunteer, and have put them in "positions" vis-a-vis their level of nagging. The more they hang around, the farther away I keep them; press box taking stats, announcer, anything I can think of to make them somewhat happy thinking they are helping, but FAR AWAY from the sideline.
Now, if you shun that kind of person, they end up being "coach know-it-all" and back-bite the heck out of every move you make. But if they think they're contributing and can be kept happy on some level and placated (give him a trophy at the banquet) your life on the field and sideline is much easier.
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Post by newhope on Nov 14, 2012 11:47:31 GMT -6
Here's the quickest and easiest way to answer the question about letting parents volunteer to coach: 1. Do you want parents on your sidelines? 2. Do you want parents in your coaches' meetings? 3. Do you want parents determining your job security and future? If the answer to any of these is no, then its the same answer for them volunteering to coach because those are exactly what you would be permitting if you let them.
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Post by coachkb14 on Nov 14, 2012 12:08:51 GMT -6
I agree with what newpride has said. Unless you trust the parent to be in the meetings and determining (or help determine) who is playing etc. it could be a slippery slope. I actually coach 2 of my brothers and have 2 other coaches with sons in the program. I have not had any problems so far. I think one big thing is to let the coach know that all the kids will be treated the same no matter what relation they have to any member of the coaching staff. Kids earn playing time. I don't give playing time out because of who you are. I benched one of my brothers because he wasn't performing at the level I expected this year. If the parent has a problem with this and is just a volunteer and not a paid coach it should be easier to get rid of him. As far as the WR not playing if he was that inconsistent it seems like it would be easier to just move on without him.
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Post by 42falcon on Nov 15, 2012 15:02:40 GMT -6
It is very simple I understand where the HC is coming from he needs the kid out for the team but I am guessing this parent also has some sway politically?
fantom put it best that quote does it all. Your HC goes to the Admin and says he I have a problem I have had a coach say"Well on the sideline the dad is quoted as saying "if you block for another mf-er out there I will put my belt off and beat your a$$ right here in front of everyone"."
and we have had other instances. I am worried about the reputation of the school, program, and the safety of our kids with this person out there. There is also a political agenda here that worries me. Can you help?
If the administration does what they are suposed to do they remove that individual from coaching. They are the instructional leader of your school so in turn this falls to them. Atleast that is how it is here.
We had a few situations like this during the season:
a) 2 coaches couldn't pass police checks, and one guy kept coming around our Principal dealt with each one. One guy was back a week later after it got sorted he was fine.
b) 1 coach same type of language and behavior I removed him it did not go well..
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wvcoach
Junior Member
[F4:@coach_wellman]
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Post by wvcoach on Nov 15, 2012 16:17:54 GMT -6
I don't want parents anywhere near the football team. Chain crew, lining the field, etc are fine, but I don't want them in the locker room or even carrying water. They're cancerous.
We had to have parents help with that sort of thing this year out of necessity. One used to coach our kids in youth league and wasn't popular - a little TOO focused on instilling fear. After a big loss, he somehow got in the locker room and decided to wrap up all the coaches' statements with a huge beat down on the kids about discipline. Other folks were not happy and we had to have a talk with him.
Your problem is way worse and I would not let that man back in the program. Talented or not, the kid's not worth that.
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Post by tango on Nov 15, 2012 17:42:59 GMT -6
I don't want parents coaching. I have had three coaches/teachers with sons on the team. They all were hired prior to me becoming the HC. One was great and never got in the way. One thought his son should have got a better offer coming out. He went to Air Force?  ?? One was very hard on his son that and thought we should trust him to do more. I didn't like the way he treated him at practice. This kid was very smart and would surprise us every week and get the job done. We did not hire him back after the season. He was my best coach and one of my best friends. |
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Post by fballcoachg on Nov 15, 2012 18:01:54 GMT -6
No dice, I'm sure there are instances where it's worked out well but I'm not willing to compromise the coaching staff chemistry (how are you brutally honest in your meetings if you don't know how dads goin to react) or run the risk of having all of the issues already stated. I doubt that I'll even want to coach my kid, I know others on here have done it but I'd be afraid my son would not be able to separate coach from dad and that's not something I'd be willing to gamble on.
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Post by newhope on Nov 16, 2012 9:03:50 GMT -6
The best situation I ever had was at my previous school. The school had a rule: no parents (other than teachers) can coach their children. That eliminated the whole parent volunteer issue without coaches having to be the bad guy and say no. We just said sorry, school rule.
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Post by coachklee on Nov 16, 2012 11:40:21 GMT -6
So I was a JV Softball coach and twice I had parents volunteer.
1st time...other than run the pitching machine, mom has zero ability to actually coach. During our 1st tournament, a girl that normally started pinch hit for her daughter who normally didn't start. Mom went crazy, started asking in front of the entire team why doesn't she pinch hit for so-and-so who hasn't phucking hit the ball all day long. I immediately ask her to please leave...luckily she willing did so while going on a rant about how I was to young and too immature to be a coach who knew nothing about softball.
2nd time...different parent's daughter the following year was definitely the best player on the team. He claimed to have had actual coaching experience at little league levels...not sure if this was true or not. Anyways, he was never around for practices because of work, but was always available for games. Stood over as 1st base coach and knew what was going on, but he wasn't a coach. He would just yell, "You gotta catch the ball" as opposed to something that I consider coaching with volume like "Charge the ball so you are in better position". Ultimately, after about the 3rd or 4th game he asked one of the girls if she was anorexic because she said she was light headed... I asked him to leave immediately and again, luckily he did...had a confrontation later about his daughter having to have to sit a game after refusing to practice one day, but that is another story.
3rd time...WILL NOT HAPPEN. If you want to coach and you have a child on the team, but were not coaching the year before the child got here it just isn't going to work out. If you have some coaching experience, go apply with the AD, fill out all of the paper work on your own and get hired on your own merit. I am of course biased, but based on my 2 experiences, most people don't really understand education and how to interact with student-athletes as a teacher which is our primary role. I am all for coaching other coaches, but I am only willing to make that investment of time if that person is a good person, is there because their "career" plan is to teach and coach and just needs to get started.
Bottom line, if I called the shots in this situation, I would have told the guy to stop showing up...don't care if he had prior experience, but he sounds like a jerk and isn't there to "coach."
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flingt
Junior Member
"We don't care how big or strong our opponents are as long as they're human.?
Posts: 311
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Post by flingt on Nov 16, 2012 12:18:12 GMT -6
I have 21 years of coaching hs and college and have never been on a staff where we had a parent voluneer.
But, reading all of the posts about those who have worked with parent volunteers leads me to one conclusion......some of us are just born to coach and not everyone is cut out to do it.
I also don't know what's harder; dealing with players or dealing with parents, usually dads, who think they know how to coach?
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Post by coachcobbs on Nov 16, 2012 14:13:37 GMT -6
I would stay away from any parent that is only going to volunteer because they have a player in the program. If it has been a long time coach and they happen to have a son come through the program that is a little different.
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Post by coachrobpsl on Nov 16, 2012 16:58:23 GMT -6
I'm a youth coach and we try to get coaches that don't have players on the team. When we do allow it those guys have an understanding of the traps involved and are given a short leash. A few of these guys are still with us now that their kids have moved on. I was one of those guys once.
The coach in the op is an easy decision. Get rid of him. He seems to be ruining football for his son on top of the other baggage. Not to criticize your header(he probably is a great coach with much better creds than myself) but I would have issues with a header afraid to ruffle a few feathers.
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Post by JVD on Nov 20, 2012 12:59:09 GMT -6
Does he come to practice?
A few solutions I can think of that are "less intrusive."
1) Have him in the booth on the headset. If he's that "good" maybe that's the best place for him.
2) Have him sit high in the bleachers and do defensive stats. Compile and report to <<Insert Coach Here>> at 1/2 time.
I wouldn't want him on the sidelines. Have the AD with you when you tell him if that's the choice you make.....
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Nov 20, 2012 14:19:08 GMT -6
Remember - every kid comes with at least 2 major problems.... Mom and Dad...
Next year I am going to show parents a picture of the football field at our team meeting and show them where they can and cannot stand...
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 20, 2012 14:48:00 GMT -6
The school had a rule: no parents (other than teachers) can coach their children. OK, let me get this straight, Tony Dungy has a son on your team, he comes to you and volunteers and you say "Nope, your not a teacher!". This drives me nuts. And having a rule that says you can't is as dumb as the rule. So you are telling me that your administration, HC, AD or whatever does not have the intelligence to interview and size up an individual to see if they are fit to coach? Maybe you guys have different rules for your volunteers. Ours have to go thru the same back ground checks, state certifications and all of the other hoops you have to jump thru. My opinion is this, and it is based on my experience of coaching my own sons, know the rules up front. 1)He is a player first, not your son 2)See number 1 I have also been a position coach for one of my sons, and at the end of the year when the league was voting on player awards, I abstained from voting on the position my son played (he did get recognition, but not with a vote from me). It can be done, coaching your sons. And I have to believe that as many coaches are on this board, it happens more than you might imagine. To the op question, I would have sent him packing the minute he acted like a dad and told his son not to do what the HC want's. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Nov 20, 2012 15:41:20 GMT -6
Vowed to never let a parent coach. Let a parent coach this year. As soon as Timmy wasn't getting the ball, it went bad. When Timmy and the QB argued over some trivial stuff, it got worse. I finally had to remove him from the sideline. Here's the thing: everyone has an agenda, whether it's to move up to HC, or collect a stipend, but when that agenda is about a player on your team (for betterment or to worsen their stance) it becomes a mess.
I will never, ever, ever, have a parent as a coach again. Tony Dungy or not.
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Post by coachrobpsl on Nov 20, 2012 17:43:35 GMT -6
FSU has a coach with a son on the team. Works for them it appears and that kid is a backup qb. It is a rare occurrence that a parent can coach a kid and not be biased. So rare I can understand a HC reluctance to do so. I would at least grant an interview with a conditional hire if the guy seemed legit because you never know the guy may be a Tony Dungy.
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Post by dubber on Nov 22, 2012 8:27:25 GMT -6
Here's the big issue airraider.....
This is NOT your decision.
So rather than "what to do about this situation" we should be talking about "how to handle this situation".
The bigger issue is a coach willing to keep on a bad coach (and potential liability) on just to have his son.
Read my thread on getting over the hump......pantering to talent is not the way to go.
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Post by steeler247 on Nov 30, 2012 12:36:42 GMT -6
not sure what state you guys are in but in Texas it is against the UIL rules to have a non-employee of the district be a coach. we can use student-teachers but we are not allowed to pay them a stipend. we always have parents asking to volunteer and thank goodness we can use this rule to tell them no.
if your state doesn't have this rule i would just tell the parent that a rule exists - they won't look into it and your problem was solved.
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?? One was very hard on his son that and thought we should trust him to do more. I didn't like the way he treated him at practice. This kid was very smart and would surprise us every week and get the job done. We did not hire him back after the season. He was my best coach and one of my best friends. 
