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Post by coachsteel on Oct 28, 2012 14:18:49 GMT -6
Yesterday i was in a tight game and a late hit personal foul was call against the opposing team. After 15 yards were tacked on i was facing a 4th and 1. I questioned the ref on automatic first down. He said it was not. I have read that in highschool auto 1st is only on pass interfierence and roughing kicker/passer/center. I coach youth ball in california and follow high school rules. (CIF rules).
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Post by coachsteel on Oct 28, 2012 16:03:28 GMT -6
.... I am wondering if it was supposed to be an auto 1st or was the ref correct?
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Post by silkyice on Oct 28, 2012 17:58:40 GMT -6
Ref correct
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Post by 33coach on Oct 28, 2012 18:50:27 GMT -6
yes the Ref is correct if you are following the NHFS rules.
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Post by coachsteel on Oct 29, 2012 0:27:07 GMT -6
Thanks, but that is pretty rediculous that a rule of safety is less on youth/Hs players than college or NFL.
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Post by 33coach on Oct 29, 2012 8:57:41 GMT -6
Thanks, but that is pretty rediculous that a rule of safety is less on youth/Hs players than college or NFL. I dont see how an automatic 1st makes it 'safer' Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards |
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Post by waltkus72 on Oct 29, 2012 9:24:24 GMT -6
I am assuming coachsteel is stating the argument of deterrence would make the game safer. Stricter penalty = people would do it less often. That's a logical premise and argument, I do not know if it necessarily true in all cases
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Post by 33coach on Oct 29, 2012 11:05:56 GMT -6
I am assuming coachsteel is stating the argument of deterrence would make the game safer. Stricter penalty = people would do it less often. That's a logical premise and argument, I do not know if it necessarily true in all cases Technically..in 90% of cases..15 yard penalty would result in a first down. Id be more concerned with why you were 3rd and 16  Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards |
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Post by mahonz on Oct 30, 2012 8:39:34 GMT -6
Yesterday i was in a tight game and a late hit personal foul was call against the opposing team. After 15 yards were tacked on i was facing a 4th and 1. I questioned the ref on automatic first down. He said it was not. I have read that in highschool auto 1st is only on pass interfierence and roughing kicker/passer/center. I coach youth ball in california and follow high school rules. (CIF rules). Look at it this way...if the PF was flagged against one of your players on Offense...should it be an automatic Punt? |
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Post by bobgoodman on Nov 1, 2012 23:05:13 GMT -6
There was even a time (1920s or thereabouts) when the penalty for non-tactical fouls resulted in moving the line to gain along with the ball, so that the distance to go for a 1st down remained the same as it would've been without the penalty.
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Post by 33coach on Nov 2, 2012 9:16:06 GMT -6
There was even a time (1920s or thereabouts) when the penalty for non-tactical fouls resulted in moving the line to gain along with the ball, so that the distance to go for a 1st down remained the same as it would've been without the penalty. Now that is interesting. Get the yards but still have the same distance to go for a first. Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards |
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Post by coachbw on Nov 2, 2012 9:19:41 GMT -6
There was even a time (1920s or thereabouts) when the penalty for non-tactical fouls resulted in moving the line to gain along with the ball, so that the distance to go for a 1st down remained the same as it would've been without the penalty. That is a cool trivia item that I wasn't aware of. I am wondering if that meant there was no such thing as declining a penalty when that was the rule. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 2, 2012 21:41:24 GMT -6
I am assuming coachsteel is stating the argument of deterrence would make the game safer. Stricter penalty = people would do it less often. That's a logical premise and argument, I do not know if it necessarily true in all cases Technically..in 90% of cases..15 yard penalty would result in a first down. Id be more concerned with why you were 3rd and 16 Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards Actually he was in 4-16! |
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Post by bobgoodman on Nov 2, 2012 21:58:17 GMT -6
There was even a time (1920s or thereabouts) when the penalty for non-tactical fouls resulted in moving the line to gain along with the ball, so that the distance to go for a 1st down remained the same as it would've been without the penalty. That is a cool trivia item that I wasn't aware of. I am wondering if that meant there was no such thing as declining a penalty when that was the rule. Of course there was. When the foul was by the offense, there'd be plenty of situations where the defense would prefer the result of the play. When the foul was by the defense, that wouldn't've been the case as often, because end-of-run enforcement was adopted early, but it might've occurred occasionally, as for instance when the offense completed a forward pass subsequent to the defense's foul. Commonly, however, this type of foul would occur while the ball was dead, and there'd've been as little reason to decline the penalty then as there would be now. Severity of penalties has varied too. Illegal use of hands has been penalized from as little as 3 yards (and I'm not referring to half-the-distance situations) to as much as 15 yards. |
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Post by parpumper on Aug 30, 2013 9:47:05 GMT -6
Technically if it was a dead ball foul then it should be Automatic 1st. If it was in the act of the play then the REF is correct! that is the distinction that you should have asked for from REF. REFs are in no way always right, but they are the rules enforcers and if you approach them with a question instead of a fiery tongue you get more from them! (Not saying you were belligerent to them at all just a general statement)
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 30, 2013 16:49:23 GMT -6
Yesterday i was in a tight game and a late hit personal foul was call against the opposing team. After 15 yards were tacked on i was facing a 4th and 1. I questioned the ref on automatic first down. He said it was not. I have read that in highschool auto 1st is only on pass interfierence and roughing kicker/passer/center. I coach youth ball in california and follow high school rules. (CIF rules). And now that another season has come around, it's no longer an automatic first down on pass interference either. |
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Post by coachdoug on Sept 11, 2013 13:59:03 GMT -6
Technically if it was a dead ball foul then it should be Automatic 1st. If it was in the act of the play then the REF is correct! that is the distinction that you should have asked for from REF. REFs are in no way always right, but they are the rules enforcers and if you approach them with a question instead of a fiery tongue you get more from them! (Not saying you were belligerent to them at all just a general statement) I don't think so, parpumper. I don't have a rule book with me at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that the only penalties that carry an automatic first down are the roughing penalties (passer, holder, kicker). I'm not aware of any distinction between a live ball or dead ball personal foul as far as enforcement goes, except on a scoring play (and even then, auto first down does not come into play). If you have a rule reference, please cite it. |
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