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Post by grouchy71 on Oct 21, 2012 20:41:59 GMT -6
For you HCs out there, I'm running into a problem this season where I'm not happy with the performance of my defense, and my DC, and even more specifically the performance of his specific position, DBs. I've tried to finesse my way into spending more time with them during Indy and Group drills, but I'm coaching LBs so it's difficult. The DC is aware I'm not pleased, he knows the specifics of what needs to be fixed, and he has a track record of success at other stops, but it's just not happening here. We're winning track meets and will be in the playoffs in 3 weeks, but we can't win there unless stuff changes ASAP. I kind of know the "Head Coach 101" rules for working with the guy, finding ways to insinuate myself into situations without ruffling feathers, giving him some directives for what exactly needs to be corrected, etc. but I'm wondering if coaches have ever had luck with either taking over daily control of a position or side of the ball late in the season, or throwing tactfulness out the window. Again, not looking to do this from a place of frustration, more from seeing a need to improve and it's not getting done yet, but there is still time to fix it. Kind of a rambling post, thanks to any who read it, any thoughts would be appreciated.  Grouch |
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Post by carookie on Oct 21, 2012 20:55:36 GMT -6
Coach, you wrote that you've tried to finesse your way over, but have you spoken to him directly and told him precisely what needs to be done? I mean if these kids are being taught wrong tell him specifically what drills and techniques you want taught and how you want them done. It would probably be less hassle than taking over daily control.
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 21, 2012 21:18:54 GMT -6
If/when you guys lose in the playoffs, will the loss go on his record or yours?
Give him opportunities and directives, but if you're going to lose a game over something, step in and fix it.
Example: We run a 50 cover 3. In end of the half situations, our DC's normal plan would be a 'quarter' package with 3 deep, 5 under and a 3 man rush. Our HC gives him lots of leash and so he let it be, but when it didn't work out, the HC insisted that he run a traditional dime package with 2 man and speed rushing DL. When it wasn't being coached effectively this Friday, the HC called a timeout, kicked the DC out of the huddle and gave very explicit instruction to the players regarding what he wants.
At the end of the day, you're not a bad person for insisting that things are done the way that you want when you are ultimately the person responsible.
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Post by mariettablue on Oct 22, 2012 0:55:50 GMT -6
It's better to speak with him and try to get things resolved during this crunch time. If you feel it's going to give the team a better chance then you will have to insist that you guys work together to improve the D. Once this season comes to an end, take the appropriate measures and either get a new DC or position coach.
When I was HC I had a similar situation. It was a tough year and I had to make a tough decision to fire the DC because he was a good friend also. He stayed on as a position coach only and he was mad until the next season began. Once he saw the improvement in the D and in the positions he coached, he admitted that I made the right move.
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 22, 2012 7:39:39 GMT -6
Running into this same problem...I've learned that you have two options. Focus on what you are responsible for & make suggestions to the DC. (aka grin and bear it) or Option 2. Quit and find a new job.
You don't want to bad mouth the DC to the HC, or really anyone else. That will burn bridges.
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Post by grouchy71 on Oct 22, 2012 19:25:37 GMT -6
When I was HC I had a similar situation. It was a tough year and I had to make a tough decision to fire the DC because he was a good friend also. He stayed on as a position coach only and he was mad until the next season began. Once he saw the improvement in the D and in the positions he coached, he admitted that I made the right move. [/quote]
That must have been a tough move, surprising that it worked out so well, a credit to your friend and to the structure you had in place there. I like some of the thoughts of "if it doesn't improve I'll come down and give you a hand..." kind of giving a heads up and developing some urgency plus laying the groundwork for taking over if need be.
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Post by wingtol on Oct 22, 2012 19:37:13 GMT -6
Running into this same problem...I've learned that you have two options. Focus on what you are responsible for & make suggestions to the DC. (aka grin and bear it) or Option 2. Quit and find a new job. You don't want to bad mouth the DC to the HC, or really anyone else. That will burn bridges. If I read the OP correctly the poster is the HC and upset with his DC, not just an assistant. |
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z
Junior Member
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Post by z on Oct 25, 2012 3:44:31 GMT -6
Coach,
If you have been straight up with him, he knows what you want, and expect. Do not let him "off the hook" by doing the job for him. He wanted the job, no one forced him to take it. If you work with the LB's, after initial indy work, have the DB coach bring them over and spend a lot of time working together as a group (tackling, key reads, half field work). Have him be responsible for some portion of the period, and allow him to stand and observe while you do the instruction (he should be able to glean some of how and what to do from watching you. If that does not work, get some "divorce papers", because the two of you will not be working together anymore!
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Post by ramcoachdc on Oct 25, 2012 9:30:47 GMT -6
I'd be interested in more specifics on the situation as you mentioned track meets.
Are you the HC / OC? If so you need to make sure there is not a finger pointing game going on. As a DC myself it is hard for me to believe just the play (technique) of your DB's is whats causing the losses or "track meets". I mean that is 4 or 5 guys on the field, which leaves 5-6 other guys that are doing what?
If you are the head coach just switch position groups with him. But maybe you don't feel he would do a good job with the LB's?
At the school I am at now our HC / OC was happy to win 42-38 and would try to score at all costs. I explained my view how 12-8 is the same win as 42-38. Its win by four. We have now found a happy medium and playing better than ever.
Sometimes the best defense is a ball control offense. I know where we play that is for sure the case. The power run teams have the best average points against. Especially true if kids are playing both ways.
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Post by lochness on Oct 25, 2012 10:17:46 GMT -6
I'd be interested in more specifics on the situation as you mentioned track meets. Are you the HC / OC? If so you need to make sure there is not a finger pointing game going on. As a DC myself it is hard for me to believe just the play (technique) of your DB's is whats causing the losses or "track meets". I mean that is 4 or 5 guys on the field, which leaves 5-6 other guys that are doing what? If you are the head coach just switch position groups with him. But maybe you don't feel he would do a good job with the LB's? At the school I am at now our HC / OC was happy to win 42-38 and would try to score at all costs. I explained my view how 12-8 is the same win as 42-38. Its win by four. We have now found a happy medium and playing better than ever. Sometimes the best defense is a ball control offense. I know where we play that is for sure the case. The power run teams have the best average points against. Especially true if kids are playing both ways. I agree with this. Sounds like more detail needs to be looked into here. Also, you mentioned that this guy has been successful in the past. Is it possible that the kids you have in the secodary simply aren't very good athletes and you can only do so much with them in terms of technique etc? Is scheme contributing to the issue (ie; asking them to do stuff they aren't very naturally good at)? Etc... |
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coachgeorge51
Sophomore Member
Cliches and mottos is mindless verbal nonsense.
Posts: 151
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Post by coachgeorge51 on Nov 6, 2012 14:32:01 GMT -6
I had a nightmare with a couple of coaches during my first year. It is not that they are incompetent, but that they had no enthusiasm or energy for the job. Their disloyalty is subtle, indirect, and passive aggressive. It is really draining and you really feel it as a head coach. Consequently, I ignored them and took over their positions by doing more group time and both quit at the end of the season rather than me having to fire them through the A.D.
I don't know if there is a good way or a bad way of dealing with this. It is very tough on the head coach, but what I do know is that if an assistant coach is disloyal to the head coach, then they are disloyal to the program and the kids suffer.
Fire them and move forward. The right guys will emerge eventually but it may take a few years to put the right staff together.
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Post by semiretired55 on Nov 13, 2012 8:20:24 GMT -6
An assistant coach who is unable or unwilling to carry out directives is of no use to a football program--Be direct and tell them exactly what u want them to do. If they can't, they hit the road.
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Post by spartancoach on Nov 13, 2012 15:23:03 GMT -6
Had this situation where the HC was just way too nice of a guy, and very good friends with the DC. We were scoring a ton of points, but the defense was giving up just as many because of lack of attention to fundamentals and details in practice.
We fixed it midseason by incorporating into every Sunday coaches meeting a session where after watching film separately and together each position coach and coordinator had to list 3 things his position/unit did well, 3 things that needed improvement, and the specific drills/action plan to fix what needed improvement that week. The staff as a whole commented on the good, the bad and the action plan for each position.
Saved the HC from being a bad guy, but put everyone on the same page as to what needed to be done with each group.
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Post by davishfc on Nov 13, 2012 20:58:45 GMT -6
incorporating into every Sunday coaches meeting a session where after watching film separately and together each position coach and coordinator had to list 3 things his position/unit did well, 3 things that needed improvement, and the specific drills/action plan to fix what needed improvement that week. The staff as a whole commented on the good, the bad and the action plan for each position. This is stolen. |
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Post by casec11 on Nov 14, 2012 8:22:51 GMT -6
Had this situation where the HC was just way too nice of a guy, and very good friends with the DC. We were scoring a ton of points, but the defense was giving up just as many because of lack of attention to fundamentals and details in practice. We fixed it midseason by incorporating into every Sunday coaches meeting a session where after watching film separately and together each position coach and coordinator had to list 3 things his position/unit did well, 3 things that needed improvement, and the specific drills/action plan to fix what needed improvement that week. The staff as a whole commented on the good, the bad and the action plan for each position. Saved the HC from being a bad guy, but put everyone on the same page as to what needed to be done with each group. Now that right there is problem solving at its finest |
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coachgeorge51
Sophomore Member
Cliches and mottos is mindless verbal nonsense.
Posts: 151
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Post by coachgeorge51 on Nov 15, 2012 14:14:18 GMT -6
What do you guys do with an assistant coach is a total dud.........no energy, no passion, not vocal, doesn't ask questions, seems disintrested, and has the body language of a mole.
Any similar situations? It became so frustrating for me that I don't even want him at any lower levels.
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Post by davishfc on Nov 15, 2012 20:14:34 GMT -6
What do you guys do with an assistant coach is a total dud.........no energy, no passion, not vocal, doesn't ask questions, seems disintrested, and has the body language of a mole. Any similar situations? It became so frustrating for me that I don't even want him at any lower levels. Have the conversation. You know what I'm talking about. If he becomes more of what you want, that would be a positive. But if he doesn't quite make the improvement you're expecting, then make the necessary decision. Hey, you told him what needed to improve and it didn't happen. That's not on you. That's on him. If he wanted to continue being a part of the program bad enough, he would've made changes. Surround yourself with great people especially if you want to continue to be head coach. |
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Post by mattyg2787 on Nov 18, 2012 15:39:02 GMT -6
What do you guys do with an assistant coach is a total dud.........no energy, no passion, not vocal, doesn't ask questions, seems disintrested, and has the body language of a mole. Any similar situations? It became so frustrating for me that I don't even want him at any lower levels. Meet with him and discuss. Set expectations and goals for him. If he fails to meet expectations, show him the door. Then hire me |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Nov 19, 2012 6:39:47 GMT -6
I fired my dud and was very candid in the exit interview. Hopefully that helps him if there is a next time for him
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Post by davishfc on Nov 19, 2012 11:47:23 GMT -6
Pride is not settling for anything less than the best. If he wasn't going to strive to coach at a high level, then finding another program was probably his only option. I just hope you feel comfortable that you gave him enough chances to prove himself. I believe the correct decision was made as long as you made a genuine effort to help him get better. Good luck finding a replacement.
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Post by piratefootball on Nov 22, 2012 10:53:50 GMT -6
As a HC, I think there are a few considerations to your questions.
1. Are you unhappy with with technique stuff that should be addressed in individual or DB positions in the scheme (ei...run fits, coverage).
- if individual, does your experience allow you to step in and coach them better (have you coached DB's) and will doing that better the defense or will LB's then suffer?
- if scheme, look at yourself and have you set up sessions that incorporates LB and DBs together so they can fit off each other (we like half line interior, half line pass defense v. what we will see from that week's opponent)
2. Your either going to continue being frustrated or address the issue.
- can you fire him at end of season (does school allow or do you have someone that can fill that spot) or will you be stuck with him
- can you accept some responsibility and help him see some of the issues and talk out what you would like to see and ask him if any adjustments to practice to help fix the issues. (I always have my own ideas when I approach a coach or my staff with these types of questions so I can say "you think something like this would help"?)
You have to address it as kids and other coaches can feel something is up...IMHO
Good luck.
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Post by coachdennis on Nov 22, 2012 12:30:50 GMT -6
The older I get, the more keen I am on smaller coaching staffs. In our organization, we continue to have these mushrooming coaching staffs, with 10 coaches on a youth football team of perhaps 32 players. It leads me to simply ask, "What do they all do?" If they all had their sleeves rolled up, so to speak, coaching skills every snap and making a positive contribution, that would be great. The reality is that most of them aren't doing that. Rather , they are there to have a cool shirt and jacket, and feel like an insider. Those are the very "coaches" who gossip to parents about what's going on, cause drama with your other coaches, etc. (Just to clarify, I'm in a bit of a different situation than you guys, as we are a community based club in Canada.)
To paraphrase Mike Singletary, don't need it, don't want it. In 2013, I want to start seeing smaller, more cohesive coaching staffs in our club. If you want to bring on a "coach", he better have a clear role and mandate. If he isn't making a positive contribution, dump him.
Some of the best coaching staffs I have been on over the years had five guys, including the Head Coach. Everyone was busy, everyone was rowing in the same direction, and everyone had each other's back. The sidelines ran more smoothly on game day as well - you didn't have coaches bumping into each other, all trying their best to seem important and relevant to the game plan and actually making things worse as a result.
Bottom line - if you've got the freedom to do so, dump the hangers-on and non-performers on your staff, and trim it down to a more workable number. Sometimes, less is definitely more.
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Post by coachplaa on Nov 22, 2012 13:52:48 GMT -6
Some great info on here for young head coaches. Eliminating coaches that aren't "pulling the rope" in the same direction would seem to be easy to do, but it is always one of the hardest things to do, if not THE hardest thing to do.
I have a 17-coach staff for three levels. It is as big as I want to go. At one time, I was begging for coaches. Our program is now in a place that I feel like I can be more constructively critical of our coaches, for the benefit of our kids and program.
First off, any negative coaches must be eliminated or corrected immediately. Sometimes this type of behavior doesn't come out until gametime. But I've also had coaches at times that are great most of the time, but sometimes detrimental to our coaching staff's unity.
I've found the best thing to do is to write down any issues you have with a coach, meet with the coach, and be HONEST about ALL of your concerns. Once it is off your chest, give the coach a chance to address your concerns. In the past when I've done this, I've had one coach walk away and quit, and I've had a few coaches make the corrections and we have been good ever since.
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Post by davishfc on Nov 22, 2012 14:20:33 GMT -6
The older I get, the more keen I am on smaller coaching staffs. In our organization, we continue to have these mushrooming coaching staffs, with 10 coaches on a youth football team of perhaps 32 players. It leads me to simply ask, "What do they all do?" If they all had their sleeves rolled up, so to speak, coaching skills every snap and making a positive contribution, that would be great. The reality is that most of them aren't doing that. Rather , they are there to have a cool shirt and jacket, and feel like an insider. Those are the very "coaches" who gossip to parents about what's going on, cause drama with your other coaches, etc. (Just to clarify, I'm in a bit of a different situation than you guys, as we are a community based club in Canada.) To paraphrase Mike Singletary, don't need it, don't want it. In 2013, I want to start seeing smaller, more cohesive coaching staffs in our club. If you want to bring on a "coach", he better have a clear role and mandate. If he isn't making a positive contribution, dump him. Some of the best coaching staffs I have been on over the years had five guys, including the Head Coach. Everyone was busy, everyone was rowing in the same direction, and everyone had each other's back. The sidelines ran more smoothly on game day as well - you didn't have coaches bumping into each other, all trying their best to seem important and relevant to the game plan and actually making things worse as a result. Bottom line - if you've got the freedom to do so, dump the hangers-on and non-performers on your staff, and trim it down to a more workable number. Sometimes, less is definitely more. This is certainly a valid point. |
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Post by coachdennis on Nov 22, 2012 14:29:03 GMT -6
You bet it's hard to get rid of coaches. In an odd way, it's actually harder to "fire" volunteers. You get all kinds of negative political pushback within the organization, and likely within a school also. This is why these non-performers get to stick around - it's easier just to keep them than to have them out there playing the martyr card. "Geez, all I wanted to do was help out, and this is how I was treated..."
This is why I strongly believe that head coaches need to be given the freedom to form their own staff with minimal interference. The moment people believe that there are other avenues to getting on, or staying on, a coaching staff, the head coach has lost all his authority. Sadly, though, you even see this stuff in the NFL - I was dismayed last year when Steelers ownership essentially fired Bruce Arians in Pittsburgh, over Tomlin's objections, and basically forced Todd Haley onto him. All the success Tomlin has had, and he still didn't have final say over his own staff? Brutal...
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Post by davishfc on Nov 22, 2012 14:35:02 GMT -6
I've found the best thing to do is to write down any issues you have with a coach, meet with the coach, and be HONEST about ALL of your concerns. Once it is off your chest, give the coach a chance to address your concerns. As a head coach, one of your responsibilities is to develop your assistant coaches. If you're not coaching it that way then you're allowing it to happen is a phrase that comes to mind for coaches to players. The same is true of head coaches and/or coordinators to their assistants/position group coaches. Part of developing your assistants means addressing issues that need to be resolved so that the assistants contribute at a higher level. Honest and up front is all you can be. Once it's addressed, give them a reasonable amount of time to get things fixed. If you still can't live with it at that point...then you know what to do. If you can't do what you know needs to be done because there isn't anybody else available, then you'll need to grin and bear it. |
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