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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 19, 2012 16:04:55 GMT -6
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 19, 2012 16:06:32 GMT -6
so now when we write the kids are spoiled, they can't take criticism, they don't want to work hard..it is really true...HOW WILL YOU TRY TO CHANGE IT??
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Post by brophy on Oct 19, 2012 16:17:25 GMT -6
this guy has a good idea about what to do
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 19, 2012 18:43:57 GMT -6
yup.. always loved his stuff
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Post by airman on Oct 19, 2012 19:56:16 GMT -6
william James was talking about over 100 years ago in his book titled as a man thinketh. the power of thought is your greatest predictor of success.
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 20, 2012 2:09:05 GMT -6
God dammit... This has been on my Amazon Wish List for months but my lack of income has been preventing me from getting the books I've wanted.
Thanks Jerry, now I'm this much poorer.
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 20, 2012 8:03:16 GMT -6
now that I've read the book, its just really amazing how many times I've told my grandkids how smart they are , great they are..blah. blah blah..but when I think of it.. its true..they really don't challenge themselves...my 4th grader wants to be a soccer goalie for gods sake..she's doing it (imo) because its easier..don't have to run as much but yet still on the field and get to kick it sometimes
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Post by airman on Oct 20, 2012 10:31:36 GMT -6
now that I've read the book, its just really amazing how many times I've told my grandkids how smart they are , great they are..blah. blah blah..but when I think of it.. its true..they really don't challenge themselves...my 4th grader wants to be a soccer goalie for gods sake..she's doing it (imo) because its easier..don't have to run as much but yet still on the field and get to kick it sometimes playing goalie while maybe not as physical it is the most mentally demanding position on the field.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 20, 2012 11:30:52 GMT -6
Kids need adversity!
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Post by joboo59 on Oct 20, 2012 12:01:06 GMT -6
Character is built out of adversity...and failure!
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Post by 33coach on Oct 20, 2012 12:48:44 GMT -6
Getting beat. Losing. All of the 'bad things' in life made me successful.
Having high self esteem is great..but real world experiance is better.
Sent from my DROID Pro using proboards
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 20, 2012 13:19:08 GMT -6
honest feedback presented in a palatable way...
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Oct 21, 2012 10:08:59 GMT -6
That's a load of bull. People say that all of the time, but they have no idea what it even means. If you look up the definition of the word, it says this: "Difficulties; misfortune." So on a sports team, that would mean what? Losing? Running till they puke? It's just a meaningless platitude.
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Post by fballcoachg on Oct 21, 2012 10:17:55 GMT -6
That's a load of bull. People say that all of the time, but they have no idea what it even means. If you look up the definition of the word, it says this: "Difficulties; misfortune." So on a sports team, that would mean what? Losing? Running till they puke? It's just a meaningless platitude. So kids should only experience success and never be pushed or challenged? Pretty sure people understand exactly what adversity means, and it is something everyone should and does experience. It's important that when they experience adversity that they know how to handle it and overcome or deal with it. It is one of those things that athletics can help teach kids, how to overcome difficulties and misfortune, how to deal with life when it isn't going your way.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Oct 21, 2012 10:51:00 GMT -6
That's a load of bull. People say that all of the time, but they have no idea what it even means. If you look up the definition of the word, it says this: "Difficulties; misfortune." So on a sports team, that would mean what? Losing? Running till they puke? It's just a meaningless platitude. So kids should only experience success and never be pushed or challenged? Pretty sure people understand exactly what adversity means, and it is something everyone should and does experience. It's important that when they experience adversity that they know how to handle it and overcome or deal with it. It is one of those things that athletics can help teach kids, how to overcome difficulties and misfortune, how to deal with life when it isn't going your way. I'm not saying kids shouldn't be pushed or challenged. I'm not saying that adversity won't happen; I know everyone deals with it. The comment was towards the phrase, "Kids need adversity." It's meaningless and not descriptive. If you tell coaches to "create adversity", what does that mean? I challenge kids all of the time, but that's not "adversity" to me. I try to help them visualize that moment when they're down and they can't give up. But I'm not creating misfortune for kids; It's not difficulties in the context of adversity. What does that even mean? I'm attacking the meaningless, undescriptive platitude of, "Kids need adversity", not the idea that kids need to be challenged.
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Post by coachfd on Oct 21, 2012 11:11:47 GMT -6
A Harvard study conducted during the 90's explored the reasons why people are, or are not, successful in life. The study gathered data through surveys and interviews with hundreds of the nation's Fortune 500 company executives.
The study found that 85% of a person's success in life is a result of having high self-esteem.
When it comes to building self-esteem, the question is: Are we doing it? Because if we are, then we really are "building winners."
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Post by fantom on Oct 21, 2012 11:22:22 GMT -6
A Harvard study conducted during the 90's explored the reasons why people are, or are not, successful in life. The study gathered data through surveys and interviews with hundreds of the nation's Fortune 500 company executives. The study found that 85% of a person's success in life is a result of having high self-esteem.When it comes to building self-esteem, the question is: Are we doing it? Because if we are, then we really are "building winners." Is success a result of self-esteem or is self-esteem a result of success?
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 21, 2012 11:36:49 GMT -6
A Harvard study conducted during the 90's explored the reasons why people are, or are not, successful in life. The study gathered data through surveys and interviews with hundreds of the nation's Fortune 500 company executives. The study found that 85% of a person's success in life is a result of having high self-esteem.When it comes to building self-esteem, the question is: Are we doing it? Because if we are, then we really are "building winners." So being a rich Fortune 500 executive is successful?? anyway I think we can all agree that having self esteem is important.... I guess the point I was, am trying to make is that the way parents and teachers are trying to create self esteem, by using empty praises, is not helping create the desired end product
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Post by silkyice on Oct 21, 2012 12:17:56 GMT -6
That's a load of bull. People say that all of the time, but they have no idea what it even means. If you look up the definition of the word, it says this: "Difficulties; misfortune." So on a sports team, that would mean what? Losing? Running till they puke? It's just a meaningless platitude. Difficulties and misfortune is exactly what I mean. The reason they need it in football is that it WILL happen in games. The refs will make a bad call. The other team will get lucky. The other team will get a lead. The man across from you will sometimes be better. The other team will sometimes be better. If you know how to handle these difficulties and misfortune then you can overcome them. That is what true self-esteem is. It is not feeling good about yourself. It is not having a high opinion of yourself. It is not thinking you are just great because someone tells you that. True self-esteem is knowing you can overcome adversity because you have done it before. Hopefully this true type of self-esteem, confidence, and overcoming adversity that they can learn in sports will carryover in life. How do I create that in sports? One example is a goalline drill. We will put 15-25 players on defense to stop us and we call it pudville. It is pretty tough. At first the offense has an extremely tough time scoring. Eventually, they learn how to score even when it is tough. I don't want to lose. I put them through some adversity to try and prevent that. LOL. But you are dang right you can learn things through losing. Who said anything about running them till they puke? All of that is your preconceived notions of adversity. I'm not saying kids shouldn't be pushed or challenged. I'm not saying that adversity won't happen; I know everyone deals with it. The comment was towards the phrase, "Kids need adversity." It's meaningless and not descriptive. If you tell coaches to "create adversity", what does that mean? I challenge kids all of the time, but that's not "adversity" to me. I try to help them visualize that moment when they're down and they can't give up. But I'm not creating misfortune for kids; It's not difficulties in the context of adversity. What does that even mean? I'm attacking the meaningless, undescriptive platitude of, "Kids need adversity", not the idea that kids need to be challenged. You attack the phrase "kids need adversity", but follow that with I try and help them visualize? ? Get real.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 21, 2012 12:23:30 GMT -6
I think we're getting confused over semantics. "Good" self-esteem, a product of confidence from things like being successful, overcoming challenges, and a supportive but honest background, is very helpful. "Bad" self-esteem, an artificially inflated sense of self without foundation as the product of false praise, is frail and ultimately unhelpful.
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Post by blb on Oct 21, 2012 12:58:45 GMT -6
So, Self-Esteem is like Cholesterol.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 21, 2012 13:09:50 GMT -6
That's kind of what I was thinking.
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Post by coachfd on Oct 21, 2012 17:22:14 GMT -6
I think praise and criticism is a fine path to walk...
In one regard, if someone doesn't do something right, you shouldn't praise them anyway. BUT...that doesn't mean that you have to yell at them or criticize them.
If you have the urge to yell at someone or negatively criticize them...you should just keep it to yourself. You won't help build self-esteem, but at least you won't lower it either.
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Post by bulldogoption on Oct 21, 2012 17:31:45 GMT -6
this guy has a good idea about what to do WORD...I could watch that video about 100 times and not get sick of it. Actually took me about three times to really get it. Awesome
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Oct 21, 2012 17:58:16 GMT -6
That's a load of bull. People say that all of the time, but they have no idea what it even means. If you look up the definition of the word, it says this: "Difficulties; misfortune." So on a sports team, that would mean what? Losing? Running till they puke? It's just a meaningless platitude. Difficulties and misfortune is exactly what I mean. The reason they need it in football is that it WILL happen in games. The refs will make a bad call. The other team will get lucky. The other team will get a lead. The man across from you will sometimes be better. The other team will sometimes be better. If you know how to handle these difficulties and misfortune then you can overcome them. That is what true self-esteem is. It is not feeling good about yourself. It is not having a high opinion of yourself. It is not thinking you are just great because someone tells you that. True self-esteem is knowing you can overcome adversity because you have done it before. Hopefully this true type of self-esteem, confidence, and overcoming adversity that they can learn in sports will carryover in life. How do I create that in sports? One example is a goalline drill. We will put 15-25 players on defense to stop us and we call it pudville. It is pretty tough. At first the offense has an extremely tough time scoring. Eventually, they learn how to score even when it is tough. I don't want to lose. I put them through some adversity to try and prevent that. LOL. But you are dang right you can learn things through losing. Who said anything about running them till they puke? All of that is your preconceived notions of adversity. I'm not saying kids shouldn't be pushed or challenged. I'm not saying that adversity won't happen; I know everyone deals with it. The comment was towards the phrase, "Kids need adversity." It's meaningless and not descriptive. If you tell coaches to "create adversity", what does that mean? I challenge kids all of the time, but that's not "adversity" to me. I try to help them visualize that moment when they're down and they can't give up. But I'm not creating misfortune for kids; It's not difficulties in the context of adversity. What does that even mean? I'm attacking the meaningless, undescriptive platitude of, "Kids need adversity", not the idea that kids need to be challenged. You attack the phrase "kids need adversity", but follow that with I try and help them visualize? ? Get real. One way I help them visualize is by running goal line drills. Platitudes are just a pet peeve of mine. Some coaches hear, "Kids need adversity," and they think that gives them open season to be an {censored}. Kids deal with tons of adversity, most of it comes from crappy adults or children of crappy adults.
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Post by fantom on Oct 21, 2012 18:04:50 GMT -6
Difficulties and misfortune is exactly what I mean. The reason they need it in football is that it WILL happen in games. The refs will make a bad call. The other team will get lucky. The other team will get a lead. The man across from you will sometimes be better. The other team will sometimes be better. If you know how to handle these difficulties and misfortune then you can overcome them. That is what true self-esteem is. It is not feeling good about yourself. It is not having a high opinion of yourself. It is not thinking you are just great because someone tells you that. True self-esteem is knowing you can overcome adversity because you have done it before. Hopefully this true type of self-esteem, confidence, and overcoming adversity that they can learn in sports will carryover in life. How do I create that in sports? One example is a goalline drill. We will put 15-25 players on defense to stop us and we call it pudville. It is pretty tough. At first the offense has an extremely tough time scoring. Eventually, they learn how to score even when it is tough. I don't want to lose. I put them through some adversity to try and prevent that. LOL. But you are dang right you can learn things through losing. Who said anything about running them till they puke? All of that is your preconceived notions of adversity. You attack the phrase "kids need adversity", but follow that with I try and help them visualize? ? Get real. One way I help them visualize is by running goal line drills. Platitudes are just a pet peeve of mine. Some coaches hear, "Kids need adversity," and they think that gives them open season to be an {censored}. Kids deal with tons of adversity, most of it comes from crappy adults or children of crappy adults. For example?
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 21, 2012 19:01:28 GMT -6
Some coaches hear, "Kids need adversity," and they think that gives them open season to be an {censored}. Kids deal with tons of adversity, most of it comes from crappy adults or children of crappy adults. What if I said that young men need STRUCTURED adversity, at least as it pertains to football and our interaction with them? Our job is to provide structured adversity to our players to prepare them for the more chaotic adversity that they deal with in the game. If we do a really good job at it, the personality/attitude skills that we develop in them will carry over to life and prepare them to be strong men. Making things harder for the sake of making things harder is a fool's notion of preparing them for the game and I don't think anyone here is advocating that. I would argue that playing an 11 on 12/13/14 goal situation is making things harder to prepare them for playing against a better opponent because we've all seen teams where it felt like they had 15 dudes out there because they were so fast, so big, whatever. Ultimately, whatever you do, have a reason for it that ties back in to preparing them for the game. In that situation, it's good adversity and the kind they need.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Oct 21, 2012 19:27:02 GMT -6
One way I help them visualize is by running goal line drills. Platitudes are just a pet peeve of mine. Some coaches hear, "Kids need adversity," and they think that gives them open season to be an {censored}. Kids deal with tons of adversity, most of it comes from crappy adults or children of crappy adults. For example? I don't know what you want an example of.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Oct 21, 2012 19:39:15 GMT -6
Some coaches hear, "Kids need adversity," and they think that gives them open season to be an {censored}. Kids deal with tons of adversity, most of it comes from crappy adults or children of crappy adults. What if I said that young men need STRUCTURED adversity, at least as it pertains to football and our interaction with them? Our job is to provide structured adversity to our players to prepare them for the more chaotic adversity that they deal with in the game. If we do a really good job at it, the personality/attitude skills that we develop in them will carry over to life and prepare them to be strong men. Making things harder for the sake of making things harder is a fool's notion of preparing them for the game and I don't think anyone here is advocating that. I would argue that playing an 11 on 12/13/14 goal situation is making things harder to prepare them for playing against a better opponent because we've all seen teams where it felt like they had 15 dudes out there because they were so fast, so big, whatever. Ultimately, whatever you do, have a reason for it that ties back in to preparing them for the game. In that situation, it's good adversity and the kind they need. Well, since I'm attacking the vagueness of the phrase, then yeah, that's much better than just saying, "Kids need adversity." A phrase like that is about as descriptive as, "A running back needs to hold the ball," or, "Linemen need to block somebody." They might be true, but it doesn't explain anything about the who, why, how, when, or where. It only tells you the what. I worked with a guy who told me that he wanted our kids to experience "adversity". Now, I coach youth football, and this particular group was 8 and 9 year olds. The first day he came out screaming at the top of his lungs like a drill instructor. The kids almost peed themselves. In fact, that's what happened three times because he had a bathroom break policy that kept them from using the bathroom whenever they wanted to. I'd say that he successfully created adversity. Obviously I'm not accusing people on here of doing that. I'm just saying that the use of phrases like that annoy me because they're good sound bites that could be taken very wrong.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 21, 2012 19:57:10 GMT -6
I understand your point, but that point can be made about every phrase ever uttered. Any phrase can be twisted and be taken out of context.
I just simply said that "kids need adversity" in the context of this thread on self esteem being over rated. My point was that self esteem that comes from just words and pats on the back isn't really productive. Self esteem that comes from overcoming adversity is what you really want. I didn't start a thread on this, it was just a simple comment.
You yourself said that kids need challenges. Do I need to try and pick that apart?
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