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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 12, 2012 20:23:21 GMT -6
During a rough game in a rough season, our CB who's always been on the verge of a benching got a stupid DPI penalty for faceguarding and argued the call, got into a spat with the receiver, and then turned on our guy who was trying to pull him back. In a fraction of a second, the entire defense turned on him and booted him off the field (we were gonna pull him anyways, they beat us to it). He's generally just a first-rate PITA with just enough talent to squeak by because there's no depth behind him. It's never anything criminal or super-serious, but he's always gotta be special, and he's selfish, and I guess the other players had enough. Even the worst player on our D who only got on the field because of a cascading string of injuries and out-of-position substitutions was in his face, and even though the replacement CB is a major drop talent-wise, he was welcomed with open arms because he's a hard worker who just wasn't born fast or big.
So after the game I was talking with the HC in our changeroom and I suggested (more like wondered aloud) that we should have the kids make the depth chart for the next game. The HC thought about it for a second and actually thought it was a decent idea.
I don't know if we will or not, but the thought of it was interesting. Would it be a popularity contest? Will they go by pure talent? Will they start the kids they feel "deserve" to start? With our current bunch, I think we have a few personalities that would eschew talent in favour of putting forward a team they feel represents the qualities they espouse. I also think this would give them ownership of the team.
Any thoughts, guys?
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Post by fantom on Oct 12, 2012 21:14:23 GMT -6
During a rough game in a rough season, our CB who's always been on the verge of a benching got a stupid DPI penalty for faceguarding and argued the call, got into a spat with the receiver, and then turned on our guy who was trying to pull him back. In a fraction of a second, the entire defense turned on him and booted him off the field (we were gonna pull him anyways, they beat us to it). He's generally just a first-rate PITA with just enough talent to squeak by because there's no depth behind him. It's never anything criminal or super-serious, but he's always gotta be special, and he's selfish, and I guess the other players had enough. Even the worst player on our D who only got on the field because of a cascading string of injuries and out-of-position substitutions was in his face, and even though the replacement CB is a major drop talent-wise, he was welcomed with open arms because he's a hard worker who just wasn't born fast or big. So after the game I was talking with the HC in our changeroom and I suggested (more like wondered aloud) that we should have the kids make the depth chart for the next game. The HC thought about it for a second and actually thought it was a decent idea. I don't know if we will or not, but the thought of it was interesting. Would it be a popularity contest? Will they go by pure talent? Will they start the kids they feel "deserve" to start? With our current bunch, I think we have a few personalities that would eschew talent in favour of putting forward a team they feel represents the qualities they espouse. I also think this would give them ownership of the team. Any thoughts, guys? I started saying that a non-binding vote wouldn't be terrible but thought better about it. It could cause some serious dissension on the team. When coaches make the depth chart everybody knows that we're to blame. I can live with a couple kids thinking I'm an a$$hole. Do you really need your kids lobbying each other, passing rumors about who voted for who, and just generally getting pi$$ed off at each other? Coach, this is what the big bucks are for. |
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Post by airman on Oct 12, 2012 21:19:42 GMT -6
I know Hayden Fry who coached Iowa had the players decide what the punishment was for different offenses and then had the captains enforce the punishment under the watchful eye of a coach.
He said " players are much more tougher on their teammate than you think they would be"
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 12, 2012 21:42:44 GMT -6
Coach, this is what the big bucks are for. Psshhh. I don't get paid nuthin' fer this. I think it really affects the way we approach it. We have no threat of being fired, and we're not getting anything out of it but our own satisfaction. I was thinking we basically stick them in a room by themselves and tell them not to come out until they have a solution, the details of the process are their problem, not ours. If they want to do it by secret ballot, fine. Public vote? whatever. Consensus? go for it. |
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Post by fantom on Oct 12, 2012 22:03:26 GMT -6
Coach, this is what the big bucks are for. Psshhh. I don't get paid nuthin' fer this. I think it really affects the way we approach it. We have no threat of being fired, and we're not getting anything out of it but our own satisfaction. I was thinking we basically stick them in a room by themselves and tell them not to come out until they have a solution, the details of the process are their problem, not ours. If they want to do it by secret ballot, fine. Public vote? whatever. Consensus? go for it. I knew you didn't get paid. That was a joke. I share something with you- I don't care if I get fired either. It doesn't affect my teaching job. from which I'm freakin retired, and I have a pretty good rep so I'll get a job if I want one. I can see a serious down side to pitting the kids against each other. |
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 13, 2012 3:03:05 GMT -6
I don't know your team's culture, but honestly, doing something like this would likely tear our group apart. I can't see how this is a good thing.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 13, 2012 6:06:25 GMT -6
Do they get to decide who subs and when and for how much?
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 13, 2012 8:01:16 GMT -6
Either we stick with it for, say, a quarter, or it's theirs the whole game. I doubt we'll actually do it but it just seems interesting. I like giving them ownership of the team, heck, I'd like to see them call their own plays if I thought they could handle it.
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Post by fantom on Oct 13, 2012 9:02:18 GMT -6
Either we stick with it for, say, a quarter, or it's theirs the whole game. I doubt we'll actually do it but it just seems interesting. I like giving them ownership of the team, heck, I'd like to see them call their own plays if I thought they could handle it. If they can't handle calling plays what makes you think can handle making a depth chart? I'd argue that making a depth chart is harder. |
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 13, 2012 10:10:29 GMT -6
I have to echo what others have stated. There is very very little good that can come from this. You're asking teenagers to do something, a group of kids their age, just cannot do successfully. I can't see a group of teenagers being 100% objective in accomplishing this.
I also believe this is the coaching staff's job only. I don't mind the captains sometimes voicing their opinion, during the proper setting, giving suggestions about personel, but making the depth chart?
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Post by Coach.A on Oct 13, 2012 11:26:37 GMT -6
I think it was in Lou Tepper's Complete Linebacking book that I read this....during training camp, the first time they ran team defense, he would yell "first group in!" Then he would just wait and see who lined up. He said that the players were almost always on the same page as the coaching staff. The players knew who the best players were.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 13, 2012 19:15:23 GMT -6
Either we stick with it for, say, a quarter, or it's theirs the whole game. I doubt we'll actually do it but it just seems interesting. I like giving them ownership of the team, heck, I'd like to see them call their own plays if I thought they could handle it. If they can't handle calling plays what makes you think can handle making a depth chart? I'd argue that making a depth chart is harder. For you I would agree, but our kids have about 1% of the experience that yours do, they just don't have enough football IQ, it's not a question of maturity. |
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Post by coachbw on Oct 13, 2012 20:16:29 GMT -6
We actually had something like this happen a few years back. It was with our 2nd year with a program. The school was 0-18 the two years before we got there. We finished third in the conference our first year there.
We were expecting our 2nd year to be a breakthrough year. After a disappointing 1-1 start, we put them in a classroom and asked them to brainstorm things we could do/change to push us to the next level. When we came back they had a new depth chart on the board. It was nuts, had our starting senior center, above our all-conference junior QB. It totally tore our team apart. Guys learned their hard work hadn't meant anything to their team mates. We ended up not winning another game that year. As a coaching staff, we also considered it to be the moment that we lost the program, and we never got it back. We ended up leaving the next year. I would pretty strongly caution you against going the route of the kids having a public discussion about the depth chart.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 13, 2012 21:03:08 GMT -6
Geez, that sounds awful. What the hell happened in there? I don't know if I'm wrong, but with this particular group I feel like they'd do a good job of it, or at least an interesting one (still doubtful that we actually would). I have definitely been involved with teams that would turn it into a gong show, I don't know that it would DESTROY the team in such a terrifying way.
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Post by bleefb on Oct 14, 2012 23:56:12 GMT -6
I did that for captains one year and it tore the team apart as well.
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Post by groundchuck on Oct 15, 2012 4:47:06 GMT -6
I have quietly gone to leaders and asked what they thought but never a depth chart. It might be something like huddle leadership for a young QB for example. I would never let the kids develop a depth chart.
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Post by newhope on Oct 15, 2012 7:41:36 GMT -6
Even NFL players aren't sophisticated enough to do that--I can see it now "Coach Belichick, can we vote to see who plays?". Horrible idea. Recipe for disaster.
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Post by Chris Clement on Oct 15, 2012 8:42:34 GMT -6
The "team" is pretty solid. About 35 kids right now, maybe 4 are harmless driftwood, this one would be a cancer on a lot of teams, but here he's just a talented outcast because he's a dink. He's a nasty dink to less-talented kids (who work harder) and a dink to the other good players (which doesn't do wonders for their confidence).
He certainly won't be playing anytime soon, and you just articulated why not: He doesn't have the respect of his teammates. We have less-talented guys that have more respect, but the current feeling on this kid is that they can't play with him. It was tolerable before I guess because he played CB and they could ignore him in his corner, but this blowup was pretty ugly. NOBODY was supporting him, NOBODY was neutral, NOBODY was even playing peacemaker. They'd sooner have played a man down at that point. That's really what spurred the discussion, the kids were unanimous. If they feel that strongly about it, it's their team, who am I to disagree. I'm just the coach, I can only facilitate their success insofar as they're willing to go with me.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 15, 2012 14:08:19 GMT -6
There's a big difference between letting the kids run an idiot off and letting them set a depth chart..
You're looking at problems, coach.
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