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Post by coachdoug on Oct 10, 2012 11:39:56 GMT -6
I feel your pain, cb. Pulling together a competent, cohesive staff is one of the toughest, most overlooked things in coaching. It is further complicated in your case by the fact that you're not the HC. I guess that is the first thing you need to correct next season - the only way you can really have any control over the staff is if you are the HC. If you are unable or unwilling to do that for whatever reason, then I think you have to accept the situation to a certain extent.
Even as the HC, I have struggled with assistant coaches in the past. What I did this season was to tell all my prospective assistants up front that I have my own systems and schemes and we're going to run it my way. It is not a democracy and initially I'll do everything myself. If and when (but only IF) assistants started to show that they understood my systems/schemes and how I wanted them implemented, then and only then would I delegate them any additional authority and responsibility. I probably came across as a bit of a prick at first, but ultimately I think it's the way to go - I've had far fewer problems this season than any previous season I've coached, by far.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2012 11:55:45 GMT -6
I feel your pain, cb. Pulling together a competent, cohesive staff is one of the toughest, most overlooked things in coaching. It is further complicated in your case by the fact that you're not the HC. I guess that is the first thing you need to correct next season - the only way you can really have any control over the staff is if you are the HC. If you are unable or unwilling to do that for whatever reason, then I think you have to accept the situation to a certain extent. Even as the HC, I have struggled with assistant coaches in the past. What I did this season was to tell all my prospective assistants up front that I have my own systems and schemes and we're going to run it my way. It is not a democracy and initially I'll do everything myself. If and when (but only IF) assistants started to show that they understood my systems/schemes and how I wanted them implemented, then and only then would I delegate them any additional authority and responsibility. I probably came across as a bit of a prick at first, but ultimately I think it's the way to go - I've had far fewer problems this season than any previous season I've coached, by far. I have been a HS HC, so I kind of knew that there would be issues. But, I just can't seem to figure this one out. We are as simple as can be offensively but the ins and outs still aren't clicking with most of the staff. I know that any further problems with the HC will be born out of the issues he and I have had over the last week and a half. But it doesn't explain the rest of the season. Anyone got anything for me?
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Post by coachbuck on Oct 10, 2012 12:18:13 GMT -6
I have the same issues coachcb. The problem Im finding and I have coached youth for ten years but this year I have daddy coaches that Ive never had. I tell them what I want and how I want it. I explain why. Here is the problem and Im betting its also your issue. They think they are smarter than you. There ideas are better than yours. Im the HC/OC and I still get blow back from these coaches. It has taken the joy out of coaching such a dominant team. From my expierence you wont change or win over these coaches. Its about their kids and how smart they are. Ride this season out and be the hc next year. Pick your staff carefully (better than I did this year). Its not you coach, youth football is ego driven.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2012 12:35:24 GMT -6
I have the same issues coachcb. The problem Im finding and I have coached youth for ten years but this year I have daddy coaches that Ive never had. I tell them what I want and how I want it. I explain why. Here is the problem and Im betting its also your issue. They think they are smarter than you. There ideas are better than yours. Im the HC/OC and I still get blow back from these coaches. It has taken the joy out of coaching such a dominant team. From my expierence you wont change or win over these coaches. Its about their kids and how smart they are. Ride this season out and be the hc next year. Pick your staff carefully (better than I did this year). Its not you coach, youth football is ego driven. I know some of the guys have just gotten lost in translation. They have never been exposed to offensive football the way they have with me. We run Wing-T, they've never seen it (it's not on TV, it's not on video games) and it's gotten them kind of spun out. They all like the offense but that's because we're moving the ball and winning games while playing everyone. I was open to offensive additions during the first three weeks but under the following conditions: 1. It has to fit within our system and formations. 2. You (the staff member proposing it) had better know how to coach it. 3. We have our three base series and anything that detracts from executing those well gets dumped. I got a lot of Xs and Os but no one could tell me the specifics of coaching it up.
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Post by coachbuck on Oct 10, 2012 14:01:39 GMT -6
I also run wing t. I had to battle just to get o line proper depth so we can pull correctly. Yesterday at practice im running a drill with no rbs or qb. O line vs best d line I caan put out there, our studs. If we can block them we can block anyone. I call for our trap play and my o line coach is yelling at the guard to scoot up you are to deep. He puts his foot almost even with center. We are in week six and I've battled this issue all year. I tell you my story because I think it pertains to you. We are averaging 45pts a game and they still wont believe. Coach I don't think you win or change this situation. Run your offense and be very thick skinned.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2012 14:22:41 GMT -6
I also run wing t. I had to battle just to get o line proper depth so we can pull correctly. Yesterday at practice im running a drill with no rbs or qb. O line vs best d line I caan put out there, our studs. If we can block them we can block anyone. I call for our trap play and my o line coach is yelling at the guard to scoot up you are to deep. He puts his foot almost even with center. We are in week six and I've battled this issue all year. I tell you my story because I think it pertains to you. We are averaging 45pts a game and they still wont believe. Coach I don't think you win or change this situation. Run your offense and be very thick skinned. Lol.. There's a reason I'm the OL coach.. We're averaging 42 points, haven't lost a game and everyone is playing so it's not like we're in dire straights. But, I'm still frustrated. I'm asking this question as a favor to myself as well. I have had to do most of the coaching on the offensive side of the ball this year and it's draining. If I can figure out a way to get these coaches better prepared, then my life will be easier. I've been doing a lot of b-tching about how much the situation was p-ssing me off so I figured I needed to be a little more proactive.
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Post by coachbuck on Oct 10, 2012 15:05:25 GMT -6
My h.s. team is like dcohio s team and my youth team is just like yours. That's why I post, to vent, I feel better. I to coach most of the offense as other coaches stand round b.s ing, its all they can do to set up scout d.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2012 15:41:19 GMT -6
My h.s. team is like dcohio s team and my youth team is just like yours. That's why I post, to vent, I feel better. I to coach most of the offense as other coaches stand round b.s ing, its all they can do to set up scout d. I hear that... The anonymity is nice when you need to vent. Here is my one b-tch for the day: Yesterday, I took over the DBs and LBs as we have an automatic check this week against a team that runs a lot of Fly sweep. We also need to clean up our coverage calls and rotation. I talked to the half of the staff about working with the DL through this period before hand and gave them two very specific drills to run for 15 minutes (they've done it before): 1. 5 minutes: DL EDDs (the kids have been doing it since day 1): proper stance, feet-hat-hands progression, striking the V, play half the man, etc..I had the drill set up so that they worked against a reach block and a double team. 2. 10 minutes: Block-down/step-down drill: block down with one lineman, take on a trapper. The team we're playing this week is one of the few that runs any kick-out blocks so we needed extra turns against it. I told them we HAD to make sure we were gap sound because this team would kick us out if we screwed around. I let them know that we absolutely couldn't run around blocks and HAD to use our hands. I look over after five minutes and they're running a 3-3 pass rush drill....The kids's stances are screwed, they were just rushing the edge and not getting a hand on anyone, cutting back inside and losing gap security... I told the kids to go get water and asked the staff what they were doing. "Well, we did all of that stuff you wanted really fast and figured we'd do something fun. The Vikings (this week's team) throws the ball alot so we need to be ready for that." So, needless to say, we moved on to a scout team period.
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Post by bigshel on Oct 10, 2012 16:03:56 GMT -6
I have the same issues coachcb. The problem Im finding and I have coached youth for ten years but this year I have daddy coaches that Ive never had. I tell them what I want and how I want it. I explain why. Here is the problem and Im betting its also your issue. They think they are smarter than you. There ideas are better than yours. Im the HC/OC and I still get blow back from these coaches. It has taken the joy out of coaching such a dominant team. From my expierence you wont change or win over these coaches. Its about their kids and how smart they are. Ride this season out and be the hc next year. Pick your staff carefully (better than I did this year). Its not you coach, youth football is ego driven. I know some of the guys have just gotten lost in translation. They have never been exposed to offensive football the way they have with me. We run Wing-T, they've never seen it (it's not on TV, it's not on video games) and it's gotten them kind of spun out. They all like the offense but that's because we're moving the ball and winning games while playing everyone. I was open to offensive additions during the first three weeks but under the following conditions: 1. It has to fit within our system and formations. They don't really understand what this means. They don't understand that the offense is put together in series of complementary plays. 2. You (the staff member proposing it) had better know how to coach it. They don't have the coaching experience/expertise to propose something that fits the structure and philisophy of the offense, much less coach it3. We have our three base series and anything that detracts from executing those well gets dumped. See 1 and 2.I got a lot of Xs and Os but no one could tell me the specifics of coaching it up. You might be actually giving these coaches too much to chew on, IMHO. Your original post says that the kids understand the offense better than the coaches. I would just use these coaches to run certain drills, making sure they understand the purpose of each drill and the coaching points. Sometimes less really is more. Just my $.02, for what it's worth.
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spoonie
Sophomore Member
Posts: 115
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Post by spoonie on Oct 11, 2012 7:15:19 GMT -6
Forgive me if I've missed it but have you had any meetings with just your coaching staff? Sitting down going through the playbook, confirming their understanding of the positional requirements getting their buy in to what you're doing?
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Post by coachcb on Oct 11, 2012 7:33:11 GMT -6
Forgive me if I've missed it but have you had any meetings with just your coaching staff? Sitting down going through the playbook, confirming their understanding of the positional requirements getting their buy in to what you're doing? Yes.
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 11, 2012 7:57:19 GMT -6
I think it goes back to something in the other thread. These guys get bored with the fundamental detail stuff and don't understand how important it is. The vibe I get isn't that they don't know what to do but they're not doing what they know. At some point they have to take responsibility for their jobs and do it right. It's not that they don't know what to do, they don't care about that and wanna do whats 'fun'. A coach that won't its no better than a coach that can't.
Sent from my ADR6400L using proboards
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Post by coachcb on Oct 11, 2012 8:04:32 GMT -6
I think it goes back to something in the other thread. These guys get bored with the fundamental detail stuff and don't understand how important it is. The vibe I get isn't that they don't know what to do but they're not doing what they know. At some point they have to take responsibility for their jobs and do it right. It's not that they don't know what to do, they don't care about that and wanna do whats 'fun'. A coach that won't its no better than a coach that can't. Sent from my ADR6400L using proboards YES!! This is what I mean when I describe coaching as "boring". The day-day fundamental work is a grind. Adding in fun new plays all week isn't.
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Post by mahonz on Oct 11, 2012 15:43:08 GMT -6
Coach I started coaching youth ball in 1983 by pure accident. I started out as the assistant to the assistant dummy holder. Since then I learned that I just do not like being the Header. I like my piece and quite now off the field but I have trained many Headers to include my current Header…my son…and countless AC’s. Here is what works. The Header is a floater. He does not play call anything. He oversees everything. Lose the OC / DC titles. It’s a collective thing. You will have a play caller on Offense but that guy is trained in the art of play calling. Probably a good job for you to do. I always pick a Defense that is pure man. Then they tend to run themselves on game day leaving the “DC” to stress on personnel more than anything. I give all AC’s ownership is something as a positions coach and that is what they focus on even on game day. If you play a D that plays 3 LB’rs then train 4 so that your position coach can constantly be rotating 4 players into 3 positions and coach the one up that is on the sideline. This goes on all game long with the DL…DE’s…DB’s. Your D will shine bright and nobody is “playcalling”. If you must stunt then one of the positions coaches is designated to do that. Now the Defense runs on auto pilot so you as the only experienced coach can keep an eye on the Offense. Most youth coaches will f-up the O before the will f-up the D because fiddling with the D isn’t sexy. They really dont get that stuff so much and would much rather get their claws into the O...even though they dont get that stuff either. So now your AC that coaches LB’rs also coaches the RB’s but no RB rotations on game day. That up to you...not them. The O is never on auto pilot. Another coaches the WR’s and or TE’s while you coach the OL. Every coach gets handouts and written drilling instructions. Its helter skelter in pre season but dials in rather quickly. Then you just tell em when you show up what EDD's to run for the day. The Header now floats and learns since a good Header can teach anything and few youth Headers can teach much of anything. So he is learning and helping where needed. Where you have gone wrong here IMO is you didn’t give any of these coaches any ownership. I mean real trusting ownership in anything. I am coaching on my grand sons 3 rd team this season. I coach the OL and call plays on game day. I have nothing to do with the D anymore because I helped train a dad that has only ever played Hockey how to coach up the TNT. He has 5 players for 3 positions and he is tasked with making them the best in the league. He also coaches up the Center position on Offense for me...always in his head because he is so important. Another dad had only ever played rugby and coaches the DE’s. He also coaches the TE’s. We have a LB’rs coach that also coached RB’s The Header coaches the DB’s and the QB / WR’s and runs the Defense on game day. We also have two more coaches…one experienced and another a complete rookie that float. We just graduated The DE / TE coach to run KO and KOR because he earned that by doing such a great job with his positions. So…you give anyone regardless ownership in something and they will do whatever it takes to be successful. That is just human nature. None of us coached together before this season except my son and I. This Staff is smoking good right now….but they had to prove it first…and did. They knew this before the season even started and sure their have been a few bumps here and there but I simply step up afterwards and take on the responsibility for losing my cool. Sometime I don’t not appreciate that a rookie coach doesn’t know what Im saying or thinking like I assume they should. That me taking some ownership. My son is the same way. He ahs frustrated a few coaches at times as well but at the end of the day its all good because we coach collectively and not individually. Its actually a pretty easy formula to accomplish. Youth coaches are not idiots. They really do want to do well. They just don’t know how to get to where they know they need to be. Football is really hard to coach. I hope my ramble makes sense....since you are very experienced I suspect you get the general idea. Probably too late for this season to implement...but maybe in the future. Youth ball is beyond unique thats for sure.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 12, 2012 22:51:27 GMT -6
1. Everything is diagrammed for the staff and everyone has a copy of the offensive playbook. It is a very small, limited playbook. 2. The playbook has terminology defined and explained. The terminology is drastically limited as the offense is small. 3. I verbally explain what how something needs to be done. 4. I demonstrate how something needs to be done. 5. I have cue cards that I give to the coaches that give teaching points for the kids. 6. I give an explanation to the staff for how and why we do things offensively including drills, play calling, etc... 7. I give the staff leeway to bring in their own drills and what-not as long as it fits with what we are doing offensively. Now, with all of this being said, the staff still struggles to coach the kids and they have done so since day 1. The kids have progressed along farther than the coaches in terms of understanding the offense. Now, the HC and I have had two heated exchanges (away from the staff and kids) but I get along fine with the rest of the staff. So, what else can I do? Your numbered points look very thorough. All I can say (as in the other thread) is that these things are hard to convey in a short time, and it would be very hard for you to anticipate all contingencies that will hang them up. The kids probably don't understand as much in comparison to the coaches as you think; the coaches are trying to take it all in, and failing at various points, while the kids are under no such obligation, but you probably notice the times a kid happens to know something better than a coach and reveals it. What you don't see is all the times the kids don't know something and keep their ignorance to themselves, because they're not coaching!
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 13, 2012 14:38:57 GMT -6
At the start of the season, you can make a chart of what coaching IS, and what it ISN'T. Explain to the staff that as long as you are in charge, if they have a problem with that, then you would prefer that they not coach. It sounds like you have a bunch of guys who really aren't interested in "coaching", but rather guys who are interested in football. There is a difference.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 13, 2012 15:00:36 GMT -6
1. Everything is diagrammed for the staff and everyone has a copy of the offensive playbook. It is a very small, limited playbook. 2. The playbook has terminology defined and explained. The terminology is drastically limited as the offense is small. 3. I verbally explain what how something needs to be done. 4. I demonstrate how something needs to be done. 5. I have cue cards that I give to the coaches that give teaching points for the kids. 6. I give an explanation to the staff for how and why we do things offensively including drills, play calling, etc... 7. I give the staff leeway to bring in their own drills and what-not as long as it fits with what we are doing offensively. Now, with all of this being said, the staff still struggles to coach the kids and they have done so since day 1. The kids have progressed along farther than the coaches in terms of understanding the offense. Now, the HC and I have had two heated exchanges (away from the staff and kids) but I get along fine with the rest of the staff. So, what else can I do? Your numbered points look very thorough. All I can say (as in the other thread) is that these things are hard to convey in a short time, and it would be very hard for you to anticipate all contingencies that will hang them up. I disagree completely. The asst coaches really don't NEED to anticipate any contingencies. They need to simply execute the designed drill and use the cue corrections. Period. (I am sure you will post some obscure potential situation because of your robotic/analytical nature...) The problem here is that the asst coaches are not "professional" coaches. I don't mean they aren't NFL caliber. I mean they do not look at their roles in a professional manner. They seem to be saying "ah..i know football.." instead of saying "practice schedule says 'x' and my job is to to that" It is a tough situation having grown adults actually "do their job" when they don't have much skin in the game.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 13, 2012 21:06:49 GMT -6
Your numbered points look very thorough. All I can say (as in the other thread) is that these things are hard to convey in a short time, and it would be very hard for you to anticipate all contingencies that will hang them up. I disagree completely. The asst coaches really don't NEED to anticipate any contingencies. They need to simply execute the designed drill and use the cue corrections. Period. (I am sure you will post some obscure potential situation because of your robotic/analytical nature...) No, you're just mixing up the pronouns. I wrote that it would be hard for you, giving the instructions, to anticipate contingencies that will hang them, the ACs receiving the instructions, up. I don't know if we can make that judgment based on what coachcb wrote. That may be true, but it may not -- or it may be true of some of them and not others. I wish we had their side of the story, but the trouble here is that in practically all cases, one person with a problem comes to discuss it with us strangers, and the other persons who are part of the problem don't.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 13, 2012 22:32:50 GMT -6
No, you're just mixing up the pronouns. I wrote that it would be hard for you, giving the instructions, to anticipate contingencies that will hang them, the ACs receiving the instructions, up. I composed poorly....trying to restate your words in the response. What I was trying to say is that there WOULDNT be very many contingencies to anticipate. "Buck Sweep series drill. here is how it works. Here are the errors..here is how you correct them.. " Hand off drill...do this, this this.. Kickout block drill. Do this, this this. Why? Bob many of your responses to people discuss situations sound like you feel you are sitting up on a pedestal looking to pass judgment like Solomn.. ;D CB is a highschool football coach, who hasn't dealt with coaches who don't do what they are told to do at this level before. Thats all this amounts to.
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Post by mariettablue on Oct 14, 2012 1:03:25 GMT -6
Coach I started coaching youth ball in 1983 by pure accident. I started out as the assistant to the assistant dummy holder. Since then I learned that I just do not like being the Header. I like my piece and quite now off the field but I have trained many Headers to include my current Header…my son…and countless AC’s. Here is what works. The Header is a floater. He does not play call anything. He oversees everything. Lose the OC / DC titles. It’s a collective thing. You will have a play caller on Offense but that guy is trained in the art of play calling. Probably a good job for you to do. I always pick a Defense that is pure man. Then they tend to run themselves on game day leaving the “DC” to stress on personnel more than anything. I give all AC’s ownership is something as a positions coach and that is what they focus on even on game day. If you play a D that plays 3 LB’rs then train 4 so that your position coach can constantly be rotating 4 players into 3 positions and coach the one up that is on the sideline. This goes on all game long with the DL…DE’s…DB’s. Your D will shine bright and nobody is “playcalling”. If you must stunt then one of the positions coaches is designated to do that. Now the Defense runs on auto pilot so you as the only experienced coach can keep an eye on the Offense. Most youth coaches will f-up the O before the will f-up the D because fiddling with the D isn’t sexy. They really dont get that stuff so much and would much rather get their claws into the O...even though they dont get that stuff either. So now your AC that coaches LB’rs also coaches the RB’s but no RB rotations on game day. That up to you...not them. The O is never on auto pilot. Another coaches the WR’s and or TE’s while you coach the OL. Every coach gets handouts and written drilling instructions. Its helter skelter in pre season but dials in rather quickly. Then you just tell em when you show up what EDD's to run for the day. The Header now floats and learns since a good Header can teach anything and few youth Headers can teach much of anything. So he is learning and helping where needed. Where you have gone wrong here IMO is you didn’t give any of these coaches any ownership. I mean real trusting ownership in anything. I am coaching on my grand sons 3 rd team this season. I coach the OL and call plays on game day. I have nothing to do with the D anymore because I helped train a dad that has only ever played Hockey how to coach up the TNT. He has 5 players for 3 positions and he is tasked with making them the best in the league. He also coaches up the Center position on Offense for me...always in his head because he is so important. Another dad had only ever played rugby and coaches the DE’s. He also coaches the TE’s. We have a LB’rs coach that also coached RB’s The Header coaches the DB’s and the QB / WR’s and runs the Defense on game day. We also have two more coaches…one experienced and another a complete rookie that float. We just graduated The DE / TE coach to run KO and KOR because he earned that by doing such a great job with his positions. So…you give anyone regardless ownership in something and they will do whatever it takes to be successful. That is just human nature. None of us coached together before this season except my son and I. This Staff is smoking good right now….but they had to prove it first…and did. They knew this before the season even started and sure their have been a few bumps here and there but I simply step up afterwards and take on the responsibility for losing my cool. Sometime I don’t not appreciate that a rookie coach doesn’t know what Im saying or thinking like I assume they should. That me taking some ownership. My son is the same way. He ahs frustrated a few coaches at times as well but at the end of the day its all good because we coach collectively and not individually. Its actually a pretty easy formula to accomplish. Youth coaches are not idiots. They really do want to do well. They just don’t know how to get to where they know they need to be. Football is really hard to coach. I hope my ramble makes sense....since you are very experienced I suspect you get the general idea. Probably too late for this season to implement...but maybe in the future. Youth ball is beyond unique thats for sure. This is my idea of team philosophy also, coach. I believe that it takes every part to be successful from preparation to presentation. It starts with the coaches and ends with the players. Everyone wants to have some ownership especially at the youth level just because they "Volunteer". What I found to work at the youth level is to limit what you assign to the coaches your unsure of so you can evaluate how they do. Make them responsible for maybe one position and it's fundamentals while you do the installation. Once you install maybe you can assign a coach to reinforce the key points in the installed plays while you work on the next installation.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 14, 2012 9:19:34 GMT -6
Mahonz:
I'm not the HC and, as such, I have no control over ownership. I was told to run the offense and that's what I have been doing. I have given the ACs "ownership" for specific positions. I have given them leeway to run drills outside of mine as long as it fits what we do.
So, explain to me what you would do if you tasked the ACs with running a ball security drill for EDDs and you look over and they have the kids running 1-1 passing drills? What do you when you 4 weeks in and the backs still don't know how to run two series with a total of 2 backfield actions and 7 plays? What do you do after you've had repeated discussions about this crap?
What did I do? I took ownership away because the job wasn't getting done.
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Post by mariettablue on Oct 14, 2012 9:51:50 GMT -6
Do you have a choice of what AC's you work with in running the offense? or is that assigned by the HC? If you had to take ownership to get the job done then maybe you can, if the HC approves, choose an AC that will do what you need.
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Post by mahonz on Oct 14, 2012 11:02:49 GMT -6
Mahonz: I'm not the HC and, as such, I have no control over ownership. I was told to run the offense and that's what I have been doing. I have given the ACs "ownership" for specific positions. I have given them leeway to run drills outside of mine as long as it fits what we do. So, explain to me what you would do if you tasked the ACs with running a ball security drill for EDDs and you look over and they have the kids running 1-1 passing drills? What do you when you 4 weeks in and the backs still don't know how to run two series with a total of 2 backfield actions and 7 plays? What do you do after you've had repeated discussions about this crap? What did I do? I took ownership away because the job wasn't getting done. CB I have successfully trained up entire Youth Staffs before and that includes the HC. If a couple of AC’s go rouge…that is part of training up the HC. He should always reinforce the regiment. Your HS experience might be standing in the way here where there is a defined hierarchy. At the youth level when you as the experienced coach is literally training up the staff…they have to learn the hierarchy so its best to throw that all out the window initially and progress to that eventually. You are the interim Co-HC if you will by leading the Staff since none of them truly get what this all means on day one. Has to be experienced. It seems you started out just fine but slowly went down some kind of wormhole with these guys. Its up to the HC to keep his staff out of the abyss but its on you to help him understand that first. It seems that is where the disconnect happened. Youth Staffs are an odd group…always. No one is getting paid and everyone has ideas. The hierarchy that you are used too is tough to accomplish.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 14, 2012 11:36:04 GMT -6
I have successfully trained up entire Youth Staffs before and that includes the HC. So if I am reading this correctly, in those situations it was always known that you were "in charge" even if you were not the HC in title and didn't do the chores of a HC regarding day to day operations correct? That is a little different than the situation here, since the HC in CB's doesn't seem interested in learning or being trained. (from CB's perspective) I agree with your premise though, that cb may have come in expecting things to run a certain way from previous experiences. I know that happened to me. That is why i suggested that if he does something similar in the future, (asked to run the offense etc) a preseason expectation meeting and a list of what is and what isn't "coaching" should be gone over. Recently had a coworker of mine express interest in being a HC at a jr high (we both teach elementary PE) He played HS football, and he has 2 years of asst football coaching experience from about 10 years ago. When asked if I would coach with him, I told him all of the things I would do, but more important all of the things I "wouldn't do" (in this situation, guy has many irons in the fire--3 little kids, wife travels for work a lot, owns two side business plus his teaching job, was looking at selling his house and buying a new one,---I personally didn't think he would be able to so it was 99.9% certain that things would come up that were the HC responsibility that I would have to handle. Essentially I was doing two things. I was trying to tacitly point out to him all the things that I KNOW he didn't consider/wasn't thinking about regarding the job AND letting him know UPFRONT that I wouldn't be doing them. As the hiring process dragged on a bit, I could tell he was wavering, and I suggested he just take his name out of the hat.
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Post by mahonz on Oct 14, 2012 14:41:48 GMT -6
I have successfully trained up entire Youth Staffs before and that includes the HC. So if I am reading this correctly, in those situations it was always known that you were "in charge" even if you were not the HC in title and didn't do the chores of a HC regarding day to day operations correct? That is a little different than the situation here, since the HC in CB's doesn't seem interested in learning or being trained. (from CB's perspective) I agree with your premise though, that cb may have come in expecting things to run a certain way from previous experiences. I know that happened to me. That is why i suggested that if he does something similar in the future, (asked to run the offense etc) a preseason expectation meeting and a list of what is and what isn't "coaching" should be gone over. Recently had a coworker of mine express interest in being a HC at a jr high (we both teach elementary PE) He played HS football, and he has 2 years of asst football coaching experience from about 10 years ago. When asked if I would coach with him, I told him all of the things I would do, but more important all of the things I "wouldn't do" (in this situation, guy has many irons in the fire--3 little kids, wife travels for work a lot, owns two side business plus his teaching job, was looking at selling his house and buying a new one,---I personally didn't think he would be able to so it was 99.9% certain that things would come up that were the HC responsibility that I would have to handle. Essentially I was doing two things. I was trying to tacitly point out to him all the things that I KNOW he didn't consider/wasn't thinking about regarding the job AND letting him know UPFRONT that I wouldn't be doing them. As the hiring process dragged on a bit, I could tell he was wavering, and I suggested he just take his name out of the hat. Could be...Im kinda reading between the lines from the last thread. I have been asked to help out an inexperienced staff as well and had the pre pre season meetings and all that. I only trained up for the football stuff and let them deal with all the other garbage that is attached to wearing the youth Header Hat. Not sure why so many strive to become a Volunteer Youth Header. Highly over rated position IMO. I'd much rather be Coach CB every year quite honestly even though he is upset right now. Show up...coach up the kids with every ounce of energy I can muster...go home to a nice evening....in peace.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 14, 2012 15:09:11 GMT -6
Could be...Im kinda reading between the lines from the last thread. I have been asked to help out an inexperienced staff as well and had the pre pre season meetings and all that. I only trained up for the football stuff and let them deal with all the other garbage that is attached to wearing the youth Header Hat. In this situation though, the football stuff seems to be the issue. CB is saying "hey guys, here is the plan, you need to do this, this, this to execute. This plan has led to us hanging half a hundred a game" And then he looks over and the coaches are doing anything BUT this, this and this, and his header is saying "I don't like the plan that is resulting in 49points a game. I want to do something different like they do in college and the pros" Little different than your scenario coach. Again, it depends on the circumstances. I doubt you would enjoy the position very much if you were given responsibility, yet no support to fulfill your vision of that responsibility.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 14, 2012 19:12:52 GMT -6
No, you're just mixing up the pronouns. I wrote that it would be hard for you, giving the instructions, to anticipate contingencies that will hang them, the ACs receiving the instructions, up. I composed poorly....trying to restate your words in the response. What I was trying to say is that there WOULDNT be very many contingencies to anticipate. "Buck Sweep series drill. here is how it works. Here are the errors..here is how you correct them.. " Hand off drill...do this, this this.. Kickout block drill. Do this, this this. Then you must be a genius. All the time I see kids doing things I wouldn't've anticipated. I think with your knowledge you can do a very good job, but I don't think you'll be able to lock everything down so that nobody downstream has to do any of the thinnin'.
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 14, 2012 19:18:49 GMT -6
So, explain to me what you would do if you tasked the ACs with running a ball security drill for EDDs and you look over and they have the kids running 1-1 passing drills? Well, why'n'cha say so? That's out-&-out insubordination, and I guess you've been too polite to have just brought that out upthread. Here I was thinking there was some subtle human relations problem at fault, when it's actually just you don't get no respect. Meanwhile, what's an EDD?
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Post by mahonz on Oct 14, 2012 21:11:40 GMT -6
Could be...Im kinda reading between the lines from the last thread. I have been asked to help out an inexperienced staff as well and had the pre pre season meetings and all that. I only trained up for the football stuff and let them deal with all the other garbage that is attached to wearing the youth Header Hat. In this situation though, the football stuff seems to be the issue. CB is saying "hey guys, here is the plan, you need to do this, this, this to execute. This plan has led to us hanging half a hundred a game" And then he looks over and the coaches are doing anything BUT this, this and this, and his header is saying "I don't like the plan that is resulting in 49points a game. I want to do something different like they do in college and the pros" Little different than your scenario coach. Again, it depends on the circumstances. I doubt you would enjoy the position very much if you were given responsibility, yet no support to fulfill your vision of that responsibility. True...maybe beating the snot out of opponents got to be a bore....the Header wanted closer games so upset the apple cart. This whole situation does not make a lot of sense. They are rocking and rolling along....no need for anything to change. I wont go into a situation unless I have full control. Its my only demand. So far so good.
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 15, 2012 7:30:52 GMT -6
So, explain to me what you would do if you tasked the ACs with running a ball security drill for EDDs and you look over and they have the kids running 1-1 passing drills? Well, why'n'cha say so? That's out-&-out insubordination, and I guess you've been too polite to have just brought that out upthread. Here I was thinking there was some subtle human relations problem at fault, when it's actually just you don't get no respect. He did say so, that's why we've been covering it. Did you miss this post? Yesterday, I took over the DBs and LBs as we have an automatic check this week against a team that runs a lot of Fly sweep. We also need to clean up our coverage calls and rotation. I talked to the half of the staff about working with the DL through this period before hand and gave them two very specific drills to run for 15 minutes (they've done it before): 1. 5 minutes: DL EDDs (the kids have been doing it since day 1): proper stance, feet-hat-hands progression, striking the V, play half the man, etc..I had the drill set up so that they worked against a reach block and a double team. 2. 10 minutes: Block-down/step-down drill: block down with one lineman, take on a trapper. The team we're playing this week is one of the few that runs any kick-out blocks so we needed extra turns against it. I told them we HAD to make sure we were gap sound because this team would kick us out if we screwed around. I let them know that we absolutely couldn't run around blocks and HAD to use our hands. I look over after five minutes and they're running a 3-3 pass rush drill....The kids's stances are screwed, they were just rushing the edge and not getting a hand on anyone, cutting back inside and losing gap security... I told the kids to go get water and asked the staff what they were doing. "Well, we did all of that stuff you wanted really fast and figured we'd do something fun. The Vikings (this week's team) throws the ball alot so we need to be ready for that." So, needless to say, we moved on to a scout team period.
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