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Post by cmow5 on Mar 23, 2008 12:25:19 GMT -6
OK some of you you know I just become a HC/OC for a new indoor football semi-pro team. I have searched on here and I have received some advice from a few of you.
Heres what I want to do. I would like everyones opinion on semi-pro football. I know most of you don't even think it should be called pro in any way and I would say I agree. I want your honest opinion on it no matter how bad. Then I would like to relay this info to my team so they know exactly what real football coaches think about semi-pro.
After I relay the info I will follow it up with a motivational talk and let them know something like "we have two choices 1. Go with everyones opinion about semi-pro ball and not take this serious, always fight, show up when ever you want and maybe win a game, and you guys dont need me for that or 2. prove everyone wrong, bust are ass, show everyone we are serious and we will dominate this league!"
We are just starting and there as been no problems as of yet, but we only had one tryout so far. I do know that some of the players from the other semi-pro team in town (Regular football) is jumping to us because they are sick of the stuff that goes on over there.
So tell me what you think?
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Post by fbdoc on Mar 23, 2008 12:41:10 GMT -6
I wish you well. I remember playing in the old Northwest Minor League in Oregon and Washington after graduating from college - Hugh Wyatt (who would go on to become a DW Guru was our coach!). We had some very talented players along with lots of over achievers, has beens, and never was's. I also remember having a great time until I tore up my knee. I think the players will respond according to their own interest in the playing as well as the realities of working full time and "playing" in their spare time. If you can get 2-3 days of good attendence and good effort out your team I think that would put you in the upper half of your League. Whether you call it Semi-Pro, Minor League, or anything else, you need to keep all the factors that effect game performance in perspective. Good Luck!
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Post by leighty on Mar 23, 2008 12:46:59 GMT -6
I enjoy watching it. I don't know that I'd ever want to coach it. I think some of the rules are BS.
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Post by Yash on Mar 23, 2008 13:01:54 GMT -6
I'm not a big fan of paying to watch lesser talented football but I tell you what I wish I could play. There is no shame in playing a game you love at whatever level you can play at. Just because people don't pay to watch doesn't mean you give it up. As long as its played the right way, I'll watch it, I just might not pay to watch it.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 23, 2008 13:55:25 GMT -6
Around here it is what it is: pay to play, nothing "pro" about it. Adult Club Football. If the guys love playing, and want to continue playing, more power to them. They dont draw around here with the exception of family members and friends. Maybe it's different where you are. After college my playing days were over. If I played it would be selfishly stealing "family" time, it would be for me and me alone, not something I would do or feel I need to do personally. My brother and brother in law who neither did anything in High School though continue their life and death struggles playing adult baseball, fights and all
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kw
Freshmen Member
Posts: 87
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Post by kw on Mar 23, 2008 14:56:59 GMT -6
Adult Pop Warner
kw
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Post by cmow5 on Mar 23, 2008 15:15:55 GMT -6
Man you guys have higher opinions of it then I thought. Anyone have anything like " A bunch of has beens", " A bunch of clowns trying to play", " Bar league". I am looking for something that makes them say I will prove those idiots wrong.
I am looking for the bad.
I will be using a couple of yours so far.
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Post by coachnichols on Mar 23, 2008 15:28:32 GMT -6
Sorry cmow5. My honest feeling about what I consider semi-pro ball to be is...I don't care. I mean let's be honest, who cares about it? Obviously the guys coaching and playing, but who else cares? I don't mean that rudely or as hit to you. I don't know you and I'm not trying to be a jackass. So I guess the worst thing I could say is go ahead and bust your ass. No one gives a damn one way or the other.
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Post by cmow5 on Mar 23, 2008 15:36:37 GMT -6
Sorry cmow5. My honest feeling about what I consider semi-pro ball to be is...I don't care. I mean let's be honest, who cares about it? Obviously the guys coaching and playing, but who else cares? I don't mean that rudely or as hit to you. I don't know you and I'm not trying to be a jackass. So I guess the worst thing I could say is go ahead and bust your {censored}. No one gives a {censored} one way or the other. Now thats more like it!!!!!! Thanks for being honest.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 23, 2008 15:43:13 GMT -6
There gets to be a point in a persons life where it's time to move onto something else. 95% of the Semi Pro players I've met and known over the years would fit this description.
The other 5% are either thugs or truely talented players who might get a look because of what they do in the semi-pro ranks. I watched one go from Semi Pro to local college to the NFL but that is so rare.
It is what it is.
I wouldn't pay a dime to go watch a game but I've watched for free when I was asked to do the chains. From what I saw, I would say all of the above was very accurate.
If the thugs are staying out of trouble for the time being, great. If a true talent gets some exposure, why not?
If the other 95% are still trying to live out their dream or just can let go of the game, let them do it.
I guess, it's no different than the many other rec sports that us adults get involved with.
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Post by gregspahn on Mar 23, 2008 16:36:00 GMT -6
I would echo the sentiments of touchdowng. To me, semi-pro is for people who can't or don't know when to give it up. This is a game that is meant to be played, for the most part, by young men who are competing for their school and representing their community. I realize that representing one's community is possible by playing semi-pro, but is the community behind them? Also,IMO, semi pro is played by those who were not talented enough to cut it at a higher level, weren't smart enough to stay eligible, or can't figure out that they shouldn't be playing. I could not imagine, after playing in college, convincing my wife that I need to come up with $250 to play football. I would be killed!
Two words come to mind when I think of semi-pro: UNCLE RICO!!
With that said, I only wish you the best coach! Good luck!
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Post by leighty on Mar 23, 2008 17:09:56 GMT -6
Man you guys have higher opinions of it then I thought. Anyone have anything like " A bunch of has beens", " A bunch of clowns trying to play", " Bar league". I am looking for something that makes them say I will prove those idiots wrong. I am looking for the bad. I will be using a couple of yours so far. They are the scourge of the earth. Will that one make the cut?
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Post by kylem56 on Mar 23, 2008 18:04:13 GMT -6
I played a year of semi pro ball. Was a good time but knew deep down I needed to be in coaching. The organization I played for was first class, provided transportation for games, hotels for long road trips etc. Basically if you look first class, do things first class, then your semi pro team will be first class. To hell with what anyone else thinks
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Post by ajreaper on Mar 23, 2008 19:21:38 GMT -6
1) If you need to motivate grown men to compete and have an appropriate attitude towards competition then you are wasting your time. 2) If they have to give a rat's butt what people "think" in order to compete you are wasting your time and 3) If you need this gimmick you are waisting your time.
They either wish to compete at a high level or they do not either way you'll not get that from them with this.
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Post by flexspread on Mar 23, 2008 19:28:05 GMT -6
If you have to pay to play isn't that "anti-pro" ball, not so much "semi-pro"? That's like saying the former Gov. of NY was a "semi-escort". I can understand why guys do it, the need to be in a competition. I looked at playing at our local team and was asked to "observe" a practice to see if I would be interested and what I saw from this one team was a coach who wasn't listened to, players who were out of shape (for the most part) and what sealed the deal for me was when two starting DBs finished a drill took off their helmets and sat on the bench smoking while the rest of the DBs continued drills and nobody said anything. (this team was nationally ranked and went deep into the playoffs) Like most things in life you get out of something what you are willing to put into it. For me, it would have been hard putting everything I have into coaching HS football and be able to give what I would want to give to playing semi-pro while spending time with my family so I just had to realize that anything I was going to do as a football player had already been done. I wish you the best of luck coach and I believe that if you put everything into it you will feel rewarded.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 23, 2008 20:19:49 GMT -6
Cmow5
Sheesh...had to edit my post...too much hate mail came back to the home front.
Good Luck....and PM me if you like. I will still help you wherever I can.
Coach Mike
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Post by NC1974 on Mar 23, 2008 20:34:41 GMT -6
Myopinion:
- I have alot of repect for these guys. They are out doing something for the love of the game. They are not doing it for a scholarship. They are not doing it for money. Thi is as about as pure as sport gets. I don' t understand those who say "those guys should know when to let it go" My thoughts are each individual should let it go when it is right for them. If you feel you're rteady hang them up after high school or college, great. But if you still love to play at 30 yrs old, and you're doing it because you love it...God bless you.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Mar 24, 2008 4:54:18 GMT -6
I would like everyones opinion on semi-pro football. {SNIP} So tell me what you think? I think semi-pro ball runs the gamut from Adult Club Football, as Dave Cisar called it, to, well, the Denver Titans. Probably a lot more teams and leagues resemble the former rather than the latter. Bottom line? If you enjoy it and can afford it, do it!
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Post by davecisar on Mar 24, 2008 7:32:45 GMT -6
Ted, Mikes team is in a whole different realm. BUT the local club team ( One of my former coaches played on the team) which is Adult Club Pay to Play Football in the truest sense of the word plays Mikes team. There are a number of guys on this team that never played HS football and others that were bench warmers on their HS team and the coach was a 36 year old very overweight and out of shape starting O-lineman on this team. Obviously these leagues vary quite a bit. If I remember right it cost Sylvester $500 to play on this team. If they want to play, have at it , never interested me personally.
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Post by phantom on Mar 24, 2008 7:36:10 GMT -6
OK some of you you know I just become a HC/OC for a new indoor football semi-pro team. I have searched on here and I have received some advice from a few of you. Heres what I want to do. I would like everyones opinion on semi-pro football. I know most of you don't even think it should be called pro in any way and I would say I agree. I want your honest opinion on it no matter how bad. Then I would like to relay this info to my team so they know exactly what real football coaches think about semi-pro. After I relay the info I will follow it up with a motivational talk and let them know something like "we have two choices 1. Go with everyones opinion about semi-pro ball and not take this serious, always fight, show up when ever you want and maybe win a game, and you guys dont need me for that or 2. prove everyone wrong, bust are ass, show everyone we are serious and we will dominate this league!" We are just starting and there as been no problems as of yet, but we only had one tryout so far. I do know that some of the players from the other semi-pro team in town (Regular football) is jumping to us because they are sick of the stuff that goes on over there. So tell me what you think? I played semi-pro back before the Earth cooled and before the days of "pay to play". I can say without question that it was the most fun that I ever had in my life. Thirty years later I wish I could do it again.
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 24, 2008 8:15:44 GMT -6
1) If you need to motivate grown men to compete and have an appropriate attitude towards competition then you are wasting your time. 2) If they have to give a rat's butt what people "think" in order to compete you are wasting your time and 3) If you need this gimmick you are waisting your time. They either wish to compete at a high level or they do not either way you'll not get that from them with this. I have to agree with this. A speach will not change these guys attitude. The ones that take it seriously will still take it seriously. The ones that don't will still won't.
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Post by cmow5 on Mar 24, 2008 8:31:52 GMT -6
1) If you need to motivate grown men to compete and have an appropriate attitude towards competition then you are wasting your time. 2) If they have to give a rat's butt what people "think" in order to compete you are wasting your time and 3) If you need this gimmick you are waisting your time. They either wish to compete at a high level or they do not either way you'll not get that from them with this. I have to agree with this. A speach will not change these guys attitude. The ones that take it seriously will still take it seriously. The ones that don't will still won't. You know you guys are probably right. It might not work, but is it not costing me anything to do, I have a few guys straight out of high school that might get motivated by it, I am willing to do what ever it takes to try to keep these guys going. If it does not work I will keep doing the best I can as a coach. If it does work then I have a starting point. I would rather being doing something, then just sit back and say hey these guys should be motivated already. I do appreciate both of your opinions and I have nothing but respect for both of you. If after the season I realize man this sucks then so be it. It will be a learning experience for me and I will move on. I believe you guys know I am new to coaching and with the help of this board, coaches I work for, and trial and error I will get better. Thanks again for your input.
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Post by mwpilots on Mar 24, 2008 8:42:23 GMT -6
I coached semi-pro ball in 2006. The guys were easy to deal with but the team owner is what made the situation unbearable. He had no business running a team. The players asked me if I would run a team the next year but I was making plans to move out of state. I gave my roster and phone numbers to another semi-pro team owner/coach and told them to go and play for him if they wanted to still play because he does things the right way. If I had the chance I think I would coach semi-pro again but this time I would be the owner and make sure we had everything that we needed. I used that season of semi-pro to practice my offensive system because I was a HS Defensive Coordinator. I think semi-pro is a good thing when it is run properly. You can create a family atmosphere and still be about business.
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Post by fbdoc on Mar 24, 2008 9:28:23 GMT -6
Phantom , looks like you and I are among the very few who enjoyed our "semi pro" playing days! I still remember catching 7 passes against the Pierce County Bengals ... and then getting injured the next game running a stinkin' route against the Skagit Valley Raiders.
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Post by brophy on Mar 24, 2008 9:36:27 GMT -6
. I would like everyones opinion on semi-pro football. So tell me what you think? 1) There is nothing "semi-Pro" about it. You are either paid or you are not. If you are not paid / profit, you are not a 'professional'. I'm betting most of the players are SPENDING money, rather than MAKING it. 2) Good luck. 3) Some folks may have success (if you have a deep-pocket owner with no regard to profit margin), but to a large degree it has to be about the sport / game. Setting it up as a 'football club', where you promote the sport (ala community soccer clubs / rugby clubs). By doing that, you set yourself up to provide a detailed, organized practice without regard to political / personal interests (favorites of the owner, etc) 4) I am popping TUMS just thinking about what you have to deal with. 5) What motivates the team when things go bad? Everyone wants to play football when you are healthy, have the money, get along with everyone, have a free (working) schedule, are starting....but what motivates an ADULT to pay into a team when the former ISN'T true? This is a completely different dynamic than HS/College or PRO ball. See #3 6) If you can get the (coaching) ideas across and get everyone on the same page, you will make yourself a better coach. What is the policy when you have very talented players that either don't do the job or feel they have more experience than you ('lets run THIS scheme')? 7) I agree with the others about "knowing when to give it up". Either you played after HS, or you didn't. If you still want to play, can you justify spending $300+, possibile injury and time away from "work"? Many cannot. Although I would probably give anything to play that one more game, there is no way in hell I would pay you (or reschedule my life) to go through the 5-6 weeks it took to get ready for that game (summer camp, practices, scrimmages, etc).....and if you don't do that, what kind of "game" would you have, anyway?
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Post by mahonz on Mar 24, 2008 11:24:00 GMT -6
Ted, Mikes team is in a whole different realm. BUT the local club team ( One of my former coaches played on the team) which is Adult Club Pay to Play Football in the truest sense of the word plays Mikes team. There are a number of guys on this team that never played HS football and others that were bench warmers on their HS team and the coach was a 36 year old very overweight and out of shape starting O-lineman on this team. Obviously these leagues vary quite a bit. If I remember right it cost Sylvester $500 to play on this team. If they want to play, have at it , never interested me personally. Dave You are right...we beat the Renegades like a drum but have you checked out the Omaha Beef? Last I checked they ran a pro indoor team and an outdoor semi pro team concurrently. They have been very successful with their indoor program. Coach Mike
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Post by mahonz on Mar 24, 2008 11:41:46 GMT -6
I have to agree with this. A speach will not change these guys attitude. The ones that take it seriously will still take it seriously. The ones that don't will still won't. You know you guys are probably right. It might not work, but is it not costing me anything to do, I have a few guys straight out of high school that might get motivated by it, I am willing to do what ever it takes to try to keep these guys going. If it does not work I will keep doing the best I can as a coach. If it does work then I have a starting point. I would rather being doing something, then just sit back and say hey these guys should be motivated already. I do appreciate both of your opinions and I have nothing but respect for both of you. If after the season I realize man this sucks then so be it. It will be a learning experience for me and I will move on. I believe you guys know I am new to coaching and with the help of this board, coaches I work for, and trial and error I will get better. Thanks again for your input. I disagree. The personality of the coach has a direct reflection on the team. If you are a fire and brimstone guy then your players will respond....if you are the deep thinker cerebral type the players will respond. If they trust you they will want to play for you regardless of age. Just treat them like men and earn that trust. If a hoo-rah speech suits your style then by all means have at it all season long. Seems you took this job to make a difference. Coach Mike
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Post by davecisar on Mar 24, 2008 12:08:17 GMT -6
Ted, Mikes team is in a whole different realm. BUT the local club team ( One of my former coaches played on the team) which is Adult Club Pay to Play Football in the truest sense of the word plays Mikes team. There are a number of guys on this team that never played HS football and others that were bench warmers on their HS team and the coach was a 36 year old very overweight and out of shape starting O-lineman on this team. Obviously these leagues vary quite a bit. If I remember right it cost Sylvester $500 to play on this team. If they want to play, have at it , never interested me personally. Dave You are right...we beat the Renegades like a drum but have you checked out the Omaha Beef? Last I checked they ran a pro indoor team and an outdoor semi pro team concurrently. They have been very successful with their indoor program. Coach Mike Mike, The first year the Beef were in existence they drew real well nearly 6,000 per game indoors. But the attendance dropped to about 1,100 paid per game and it became a money loser, Jay Noodle sold it last year I think. They have new coaches ( Steve Warren) and owners. They are in the UIL which is like a 3rd tier Indoor league, not the ones on TV etc. We did 4-5 events with them and the Lincoln Capitals with our youth program, punt pass and kick at halftime etc. The Lincoln Capitals I think is belly up as they rarely drew over 1,000. The Beef did real well their first few indoor years with a huge QB named Troy Travis ( 265 lbs) who didnt play beyond his Sophomore year in High School, vry efficient QB. They did however have 2 backup running backs from NU, Clinton Childs and Jay Sims, that did REal well. No big names other than that though, I checked this years team and no big names other than a former UNorthern Iowa and UNOmaha running back tandem that are pretty good. I had not heard they had an outdoor team, but then again I dont live in Omaha anymore.
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Post by airitout616 on Mar 24, 2008 16:05:29 GMT -6
I currently still play for a semi pro team and what all you guys say is spot on. Tons of rif raf, thugs, fighting and very very very poor coaching. Although I play for one of the top teams in the area there is some real head aches about semi pro football. Players have familys and full-time jobs so most dont even go to practice. I would say on the team I play for we are sort of lucky to have a good staff that at least knows how to tie there football cleats. We have had many players on our team go on to Arena, Indoor, and on to college. We get a few Community College players that play in there off season to stay in shape. And a lot of the players on my team have actually played at least 1 year of college ball. But some of the teams we play they give a bad name for semi-pro football and football in genreal. We play some inner city Detroit teams and its disgusting what goes on we have been ran off the field becuase of players threating to shoot us after the game, coaches drinking on the sideline, "fans" throwing beer bottles at us, girls in the stands flashing, but this is sort of rare i have been playing for 4 years so I have seen a lot. We even had a player on our team punch a ref becuase the ref punched him. But thats my take on the deal. I play becuase im not ready to stop playing, i like playing with some of my teamates, and its something fun to do in the summer.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Mar 24, 2008 16:34:25 GMT -6
My opinion is that it is pretty bush league. From what I have seen, there are better organized flag football pick up leagues than semi pro. The overall caliber of play isn't exactly high either. Some great athletes do play, but for the most part I would rather watch a low level high school game than a semi pro game.
Would I love to strap it on and play again? You bet I would. But I am not going to do it unless it is done right. I don't see semi pro being that.
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