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Post by coachrobpsl on Sept 19, 2012 11:05:15 GMT -6
Not par for the course in Pop Warner. But as you know PW is a national organization that is on the whole very well ran. I have seen local leagues with similar problems that you are experiencing. Lack of leadership is always the root of the problem. Our local league(non travel, non weight restricted) is not so bad. Adults tend to ruin youth sports.
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flingt
Junior Member
"We don't care how big or strong our opponents are as long as they're human.?
Posts: 311
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Post by flingt on Sept 19, 2012 11:13:33 GMT -6
So, long story short, I ended up taking a teaching job in a small school that doesn't have a football program at the last minute this summer. So, I volunteered to coach youth league football as it's the only thing that would fit my schedule (I commute an hour each way). I coached in this league about thirteen years ago and it has changed. 1. We run a play-off system with a full-blown "championship game" and all that hoopla. We emphasize playing everyone, having fun, learning the game and playing hard but the friggin Little League Super Bowl is always hovering over our heads. 2. Only half of the teams from the league will make the play-offs, based on record. So, again, a complete and total contradiction in terms of our mission statement. 3. The parents are a freakin nightmare... I have never been around a more disgraceful, disrespectful group of people. The inmates are running the prison and the league doesn't do anything about it. There are parents that need to be banned from the playing fields for their behavior but nothing happens. Hell, we had no less than 10 parents smoking cigarettes in the stands behind the field. 4. The league cannot get quality coaches because it's such a circus. It's packed full of daddies and Glory Day weirdos who are living vicariously through the play of 10 year old kids. They get most of the kids the bare-minimum of playing time, they don't teach them the game and their lack of sportsmanship is astounding. 5. The league can't get officials so the coaches go through a clinic and they do the reffing.. Soo, you'd got a bunch of morons calling games. They either turn the game into Lord of The Flies by not calling anything or they call EVERYTHING and start making stuff up.. 6. There are coaches in the league that filming the games and actually taking stats. They are posting these stats all over the place: at the fields, online, etc... Is this common place in other youth leagues around the country? I've been told that it's worse in some places but I'm at a friggin loss right now. I am in the south and this is all very common. ....and one more case of why I do not allow my sons to play youth football. We'll wait until middle school.
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Post by coachguy83 on Sept 19, 2012 11:36:43 GMT -6
From my experience a lot of the problems you are having are pretty common place in youth sports. I was blessed to coach in a league that was ran the right way.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 11:55:43 GMT -6
So, long story short, I ended up taking a teaching job in a small school that doesn't have a football program at the last minute this summer. So, I volunteered to coach youth league football as it's the only thing that would fit my schedule (I commute an hour each way). I coached in this league about thirteen years ago and it has changed. 1. We run a play-off system with a full-blown "championship game" and all that hoopla. We emphasize playing everyone, having fun, learning the game and playing hard but the friggin Little League Super Bowl is always hovering over our heads. 2. Only half of the teams from the league will make the play-offs, based on record. So, again, a complete and total contradiction in terms of our mission statement. 3. The parents are a freakin nightmare... I have never been around a more disgraceful, disrespectful group of people. The inmates are running the prison and the league doesn't do anything about it. There are parents that need to be banned from the playing fields for their behavior but nothing happens. Hell, we had no less than 10 parents smoking cigarettes in the stands behind the field. 4. The league cannot get quality coaches because it's such a circus. It's packed full of daddies and Glory Day weirdos who are living vicariously through the play of 10 year old kids. They get most of the kids the bare-minimum of playing time, they don't teach them the game and their lack of sportsmanship is astounding. 5. The league can't get officials so the coaches go through a clinic and they do the reffing.. Soo, you'd got a bunch of morons calling games. They either turn the game into Lord of The Flies by not calling anything or they call EVERYTHING and start making stuff up.. 6. There are coaches in the league that filming the games and actually taking stats. They are posting these stats all over the place: at the fields, online, etc... Is this common place in other youth leagues around the country? I've been told that it's worse in some places but I'm at a friggin loss right now. Yes. Except #5. That's weird...
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Post by coachcb on Sept 19, 2012 11:56:20 GMT -6
Are the leagues causing problems for the middle school and high school programs in your areas? They are around here because a lot of kids aren't being held accountable for their attitudes/actions and they don't last long when there's structure.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 11:57:54 GMT -6
Are the leagues causing problems for the middle school and high school programs in your areas? They are around here because a lot of kids aren't being held accountable for their attitudes/actions and they don't last long when there's structure. "Don't last long when there's structure" - what does that mean..?
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 12:33:55 GMT -6
"Don't last long when there's structure" - what does that mean..? They quit when they realize that their dads aren't coaching them and have to come to practice to play. Kids tell you that when they quit?
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 13:06:46 GMT -6
Kids tell you that when they quit? No, the rest of the kids, parents, and coaches do. Really? I find that really strange. Usually when a dad takes the time to become a ball coach, you'd expect that he would be a good father, and you'd expect that child to be a great kid, probably good at football too. Does this happen to you a lot? I can't imagine it does since I don't think so many fathers are out there being coaches for their sons...
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 14:11:43 GMT -6
Here's the issues that you run into: 1. They're only coaching because their boys on the team. Their only coaching experience comes from working with their kids' teams. So, their first investment is in their kids and not the team. There is a bias there, regardless. 2. They've never truly developed as coaches because they've been surrounded by other daddy coaches. They may have a few years of coaching under their belts but it doesn't mean much. 3. They've never worked outside of the youth level so they don't understand how a team should be managed. This is usually where the accountability issues come in. They play kids regardless of attitude or attendance issues. Well, they play the studs while dishing out minimal time to the rest of the kids. So now that you're a youth coach, are you kicking kids off your team for attitude and attendance issues?
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 20, 2012 7:21:09 GMT -6
So now that you're a youth coach, are you kicking kids off your team for attitude and attendance issues? Nope, but I do bench the kids. If they miss one practice in a week, they get knocked down to the minimum number of plays (14) for that week. Two days and they don't play. We only get three days of practice a week and one is an hour long, pre-game walk-through so they need to be there. The same basic rules apply to attitude. The kids get two warnings about their behavior during the week and the third one results in minimum playing time. A fourth one and I talk to mom and dad about whether or not their boy really wants to play. And, I'm not talking about piddly crap: it has to be a serious issue. I cut our best TB to the minimum number of plays in the first quarter of a game last night. He'd been difficult during pregame and popped off about being subbed out so his playing time got cut. He had 10 plays in already so he got 4 more and rode the bench. We had a rough start to the beginning of the year, attendance and behavior wise, because no one had ever held the kids accountable before. They were a real classless, entitled bunch of kids to begin with but we changed it in a hurry. Blowing teams out the first three weeks with the better players riding the bench helped turn things around. Ha. I do the same thing. I couldn't care less about winning if the discipline isn't there. I've had good players ride the bench all season.
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Post by wingt74 on Sept 20, 2012 7:40:16 GMT -6
So, long story short, I ended up taking a teaching job in a small school that doesn't have a football program at the last minute this summer. So, I volunteered to coach youth league football as it's the only thing that would fit my schedule (I commute an hour each way). I coached in this league about thirteen years ago and it has changed. 1. We run a play-off system with a full-blown "championship game" and all that hoopla. We emphasize playing everyone, having fun, learning the game and playing hard but the friggin Little League Super Bowl is always hovering over our heads. 2. Only half of the teams from the league will make the play-offs, based on record. So, again, a complete and total contradiction in terms of our mission statement. 3. The parents are a freakin nightmare... I have never been around a more disgraceful, disrespectful group of people. The inmates are running the prison and the league doesn't do anything about it. There are parents that need to be banned from the playing fields for their behavior but nothing happens. Hell, we had no less than 10 parents smoking cigarettes in the stands behind the field. 4. The league cannot get quality coaches because it's such a circus. It's packed full of daddies and Glory Day weirdos who are living vicariously through the play of 10 year old kids. They get most of the kids the bare-minimum of playing time, they don't teach them the game and their lack of sportsmanship is astounding. 5. The league can't get officials so the coaches go through a clinic and they do the reffing.. Soo, you'd got a bunch of morons calling games. They either turn the game into Lord of The Flies by not calling anything or they call EVERYTHING and start making stuff up.. 6. There are coaches in the league that filming the games and actually taking stats. They are posting these stats all over the place: at the fields, online, etc... Is this common place in other youth leagues around the country? I've been told that it's worse in some places but I'm at a friggin loss right now. I coached youth (6th, 7th, 8th) for ten years in Southeastern Wisconsin. We had a LITTLE bit of all of this, but not nearly as bad as you make it sound. Parents were a pain at times. We also had a full blown playoff with a championship game, but just for the 8th graders. Unwritten rule was, 7th grade and lower everyone plays...8th grade, you play to win (within reason). But what you describe tugs at the heart a bit. All of these kids in the league may be getting soured from the sport, and getting robbed of their youth sports experience. Are there league meetings that you can bring up all these concerns? MAybe even make a big stink about it and start a ground-swell. I'd start with officials, who have the power to eject fans and coaches w/ a direct line to the police. This situation sounds like it could explode and something really bad could happen that makes it on the nightly news...and I bet there are a few other coaches that feel the same way you do too. Good luck coach
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 20, 2012 12:15:50 GMT -6
Everyone started off running the same offense and the same defense for the first 3 games to make sure fundamentals were being taught. What does running the same offense have to do with fundamentals? We ran the straight T on offense and the playbook was designed to get as many kids touches as possible That's... silly. If your focus was getting the ball to a ton of kids, then why didn't you just run the same play and change the kid? Did you guys even keep score?
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 20, 2012 14:02:48 GMT -6
Because it forces the coaches to stick with one, sound offensive scheme for a month. They have to learn that scheme and coach it up if they want to be competitive. SO, they need to develop the fundamentals and ignore the Xs and Os. This was a great solution to the "offense of the week" problem that spreads like a disease at the youth levels. The kids weren't learning ANYTHING about football because the tools that were coaching them run whatever they saw on Saturday and Sunday. The straight T was a great choice because a) all of the skill players had to learn the fundamentals of not only running and catching the ball, but BLOCKING as well and b) they felt like more of a part of the offense because there were simple running plays designed SPECIFICALLY to get their position the ball. There's a lot of ball-fakes involved too so they understand how to work within a system. I run the Wing T now for the very same reason: we get a lot of kids touches. And, yes, we keep score. I have coached youth football for 3 out of my 13 seasons and the teams have a record of 22-2. We're 4-0 this season averaging 46 points on offense and giving up an average of 8. All of our kids play d-mn near equally. I'm with you on the X's and O's, but I don't think that running the same offense on every level will necessarily make the organization successful or teach the kids the fundamentals. I was in an organization that did that very thing - they tried to run the same offense, but their offense wasn't very sound. There was not very many fakes, and the blocking scheme was literally "just block away from the hole". The HC didn't work on fundamentals either, but he thought he was amazing. That was actually this season, and I'm no longer a part of their team. The entire organization is 0 and 6 so far - they haven't won a game yet. Sorry if I sound condescending. I'm just venting. I'm sick of people who say stuff like, "We're developing kids," without spending anywhere near enough time on the fundamentals. I swear that a lot of coaches have just learned all of the proper buzz words and catch phrases without actually understanding what they mean.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 20, 2012 15:48:33 GMT -6
Like I said, it was a last ditch effort to actually get coaches to teach the proper fundamentals of the game. It's something that we could certainly use in the league I'm currently in. Calling our offense at these games has actually been pretty sad; we've been up by 30+ points at half all year long. The opposing teams have not been taught the fundamentals of the game; they can't block, tackle, shed or pursue. They throw pick after pick and fumble the ball all day long. I watch a lot of the other games and our team from week one is running completely different offensive and defensive schemes.
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Post by mariner42 on Sept 22, 2012 2:50:40 GMT -6
I am in the south and this is all very common. ....and one more case of why I do not allow my sons to play youth football. We'll wait until middle school. In the hypothetical situation that I eventually have sons, there's no way they're playing Pop Warner. There's a great flag league around my hometown, I'll happily get them involved in that.
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Post by coachrobpsl on Sept 22, 2012 6:21:05 GMT -6
What is wrong with Pop Warner? Don't blame the association for poor coaching. It is difficult to find quality youth coaching in any organization. Remember guys, youth coaches are volunteers. Our conference has some great coaches. Hell, some of them run better programs than the idiots we have at some of the local high schools(I am really not exaggerating). If you end up having sons don't just dismiss Pop Warner because of a preconceived notion or a past experience. Check them out first and then make a decision based on the observations of that specific team. Not all of us are daddy ball coaches or are clueless. Pop Warner's rules for parent conduct are strictly enforced so these problems tend to not exist, at least in all the associations we have played(which is actually a larger sampling than most teams).
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Post by coachmoore42 on Sept 22, 2012 11:56:36 GMT -6
What is this that you speak of?
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