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Post by 4verts on Sept 17, 2012 15:47:31 GMT -6
Everyday by 9am, I am to have the script for our team periods where we go best v. best to the HC/DC. Everyday he comes to me asking what this is or that is. Like clock work he came to ask me today what something was. I explained that we were putting in a bootleg off of zone read play. He said ok and walked out of my office. When we ran these plays, spaced out by ten other plays in between, he had the foresight to call a corner blitz into the bootleg both times. This is not the first instance of this, but probably the most blatant.
Has anyone ever dealt with this? Any suggestions on the most professional way to handle the situation?
FWIW...Our up coming opponent has not run a corner blitz in the 243 snaps I've seen of them on film. Funny thing is, we haven't run the corner blitz in any of our games either.
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Post by carookie on Sept 17, 2012 17:01:26 GMT -6
Yeah, you script both sides of the ball. You put in what offense will be run AND what defense. Maybe at the end just for fun have a few free calls, but I always script both sides
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 17, 2012 17:19:54 GMT -6
accidently, "skip" a play
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Post by coachklee on Sept 17, 2012 18:28:40 GMT -6
accidently, "skip" a play Maybe do this every time that you put in a wrinkle! |
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Post by thehoodie on Sept 17, 2012 20:43:33 GMT -6
I would just be honest and come out and ask him why he's doing that? He may have a perfectly legitimate reason. If he blows you off after being direct and asking him, he's probably just showing you up. But you won't know until you ask.
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jonnyjon
Sophomore Member
cOUrage
Posts: 141
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Post by jonnyjon on Sept 17, 2012 22:36:17 GMT -6
only give him the personnel and formation.
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spoonie
Sophomore Member
Posts: 115
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Post by spoonie on Sept 18, 2012 4:04:20 GMT -6
I heard of a similar situation over here, where the DC contacted the OC for a list of what he was running in team periods. Then he'd call stuff so that his defense had to notice what was happening and adjust. I.e. he'd call in a defensive alignment to the huddle, knowing what was coming from the offense and when the offense lined up, the D would have to recognise how they'd lined up and adjust to what they were meant to do in that situation, not what had been called.
In this case tho, it sounds a little more disruptive than that, so I'd ask for the motivation. I wouldn't go down the route of just changing the plays from what you've told him, because A) he might have agood reason for doing this which you don't know about and B) it's only going to cause friction between you and the HC/DC when he sees you've misled him
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Post by davishfc on Sept 18, 2012 8:01:03 GMT -6
That's just flat out bush league. I could see him doing that to prove a point to you if you were getting off script. Eye for eye type thing. But to corner blitz into a bootleg twice in the same script is just silly. Decreases the confidence of the offense and pumps up the defense artificially because they were sent into the play. I don't get how any DC, or even worse, a HC would want this done within their program on a consistent basis. What are you proving? Seriously.
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Post by carookie on Sept 18, 2012 9:09:10 GMT -6
Im just gonna reiterate what I said at the top because Ive always done it and never had a problem; script both sides of the ball. Problem solved.
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Post by 4verts on Sept 18, 2012 9:40:09 GMT -6
So what you're telling me is because they haven't ran a CB blitz in 243 snaps they won't run one of friday? and if they do, then you're just screwed? I don't see anything wrong with it. It's a boot leg, it's entirely possible that they do send a CB or an OLB blitz off of that edge especially near the goal line even if you haven't seen it on film so I don't see the harm in it. I mean, you're talking about 2 plays out of how many? Also - how did your QB handle it? They did it twice...first time OK, 2nd time, perhaps the QB should have suspected that it might happen again, by some time and get the ball out like he's suppose to. QB threw it in the stands like he has been taught (both times). I realize they could blitz a corner having not shown it on film. This is a period where we run our defense vs. our offense. The thing I have a problem with is that we don't blitz corners in the game. We just blitz corners in these periods when it suits the defense. If you are trying to prepare your QB for the corner blitz against bootleg you can accomplish it with the first blitz. The second is to make you win the drill. Would you have a problem with on only one play, that we happen to be running a reverse, that the HC/DC also tells his BSDE to run up the field and disregard any read keys? Are you ok with that? Because that also happened in the same period. I am all for making practice harder than games, but this isn't what is trying to be accomplished here. Now feel free to tell me that he is the HC and I am suppose to sit back and take it. |
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Post by 4verts on Sept 18, 2012 9:42:13 GMT -6
Im just gonna reiterate what I said at the top because Ive always done it and never had a problem; script both sides of the ball. Problem solved. He has no script. For best v. best periods he calls the defense off my script. For scout periods he calls off of the cards he has drawn up. No one on the defensive staff has a script of calls. |
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Sept 18, 2012 10:17:17 GMT -6
What do you get out of running your O v. D during the season unless its what you will face on Friday?
Sounds like a wasted period anyway.
If he is doing it to show you up...he is the HC. He can do whatever he wants. It may be bush league, he may be a jerk, but its his show.
Don't let little stuff get to you. This job is too hard already.
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Post by sweep26 on Sept 18, 2012 10:40:45 GMT -6
Are you running your offense, or the HC's offense?
Don't you and the HC ever meet to discuss game plans and practice plans?
Sounds like there are some serious teamwork and trust issues going on in this program!! I wonder why?
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Post by dubber on Sept 18, 2012 12:26:14 GMT -6
Im just gonna reiterate what I said at the top because Ive always done it and never had a problem; script both sides of the ball. Problem solved. He has no script. For best v. best periods he calls the defense off my script. For scout periods he calls off of the cards he has drawn up. No one on the defensive staff has a script of calls. Maybe his thought process is to put the offense into tough situations |
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Post by veerbone on Sept 18, 2012 14:13:01 GMT -6
Script the offense AND the defense. You wasted two reps because he was trying to be a practice field Lombardi.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 18, 2012 20:22:06 GMT -6
are you more upset over what your HC is doing during practice or more upset that your new bootpass off of zone read didn't go like you thought? I would be more upset that my head coach is insecure and is more concerned with looking like a genius in practice to his defensive players than winning football games. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 19, 2012 7:01:23 GMT -6
When we go good on good, it could a free for all or it could be scripted.
Usually when do do these team segments it is 'do what you do', but the period is designated to a certain purpose such as:
-Team Pass: if you are a passing offense, you have to be able to pass when the defense knows one is coming
-2nd & 8: playing calling when the O is behind schedule
-3rd & 2: playing calling when the O is ahead of schedule
-Team Run & Play Action: situations that call for running the ball when needed and setting up the defense for PA
-Goal Line
-Perimeter
-Inside Run
If the defense 'gets' the offense on a certain play, the OC might stop the sequence and fix the problem, what ever it may be, or he simply tells the QB/player what the adjustment/check would be to that particular instance brought to be. For example, "If they show 1 High, check out of YYY to XXX", or "If they blitz, your reads go from X to Y".
I get both sides of the argument. No need to 'one up' the other side of the ball, yet at the same time you need to stress the other side of the ball to simulate the flow of a game.
Why not the next time it happens, just say "Good call coach", and fix the problem to that situation for your side of the ball; then say "Coach could we do that play again and would you give me a @#$% front with &^%$ coverage so my guys can see what we'll get on Friday night?"
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Post by 4verts on Sept 19, 2012 7:29:13 GMT -6
are you more upset over what your HC is doing during practice or more upset that your new bootpass off of zone read didn't go like you thought? I would be more upset that my head coach is insecure and is more concerned with looking like a genius in practice to his defensive players than winning football games. This is my problem. I could care less if they blitz into the bootleg and my QB has to throw it away. My problem is that he wasn't trying to make anyone better. Trying to win the drill. I email the script to the guy and never hear anything back from it. I've raised the issue in the staff meeting before about scripting both parts. He doesn't want that. So, I've gotten my answer long ago about what he is trying to accomplish. What will he do??? He has already threatened to fire the oline coach on the field over what he thought was a cut block (never to be spotted on film). I am not going to lose the confidence of the offense because he wants to pitch a fit at me on the field. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 19, 2012 10:05:42 GMT -6
Personally, I don't see the point in running your team's offense against your team's defense... Offensively, you need to get as many turns against that week's defense as possible. The same goes for the defense; practice against what you're going to see. This is what I don't get either. We barely have time to get ready for what we're actually see in a game. I don't see how there's time to practice against yourself inseason. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Sept 19, 2012 10:32:24 GMT -6
Personally, I don't see the point in running your team's offense against your team's defense... Offensively, you need to get as many turns against that week's defense as possible. The same goes for the defense; practice against what you're going to see. Maybe toss a wrinkle or two in but that's it. I guarantee the HC would sh-t a brick if you called a bubble screen every time he has a corner-blitz on the script. Like I said, you need to script both sides, coach. Toss in best and worst case scenarios along with some grey area stuff. running 50 plays against a jackwagon scout team isn't the only way to prepare a team for the speed of the game. how about having a 10 minute period of game speed against the best possible people? it is only scripted on the down/distance... the oc & dc call it just like a game - with emphasis being placed on running the plays you will use that week. is it bad to block a "50" for 10 minutes when it is game speed vs a legit defender even though your opponent may run a "40"? does it kill the defense to play fast vs a spread team when their opponent runs the I? how much stuff are you really changing each week? how much do you stray from your base each week? will you NEVER face a 50 team the entire season? will your defense NEVER face a similar offensive style as yours? how about we let the coaches practice calling plays at a full tempo, seeing what defenders are doing and reacting to them... we are a 1-side of the ball team. we use scout teams (basically jv players) to service us. but, for a couple of periods on monday & a couple on tuesday we go good on good to keep our kids in "game speed" mode. up tempo, high intensity. it also helps serve as a 'break' from blocking d!ckbird jonny the jv MLB & make our center really have to run on outside zone... we like it. our kids like it. i've done it at just about every stop in my career. it has served a purpose. because, bottom line, fundamentals of running, blocking, tackling are probably more important than scheme. so, having to block & tackle better players - with 'scheme not in the mix - has helped us. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 19, 2012 10:49:12 GMT -6
-Competition- isn't that what the game is about?
-Working on doing what you do, the Wooden approach.
-The live bullets we get for a scout team don't approach the caliber of the bullets we see vs. our 1 offense, and vice versa.
-It isn't for extended periods of time, 10-20 plays then get on to something else.
-Helps with intensity/tempo, see previous
Last week we faced a 2 TE I power team. We still had these segments even though the last time our offense lined up in 2 TE was about 4 years ago on JV when our QB got hurt and had to finish the game with a WR back there.
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flingt
Junior Member
"We don't care how big or strong our opponents are as long as they're human.?
Posts: 311
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Post by flingt on Sept 19, 2012 11:09:42 GMT -6
We platoon, and have a best on best period twice a week. As Huey said, it is to simulate the speed of the game.
To the OP, it seems like the HC has an agenda and I would just ask him about itin a very non confrontational way. That being said you can't tell me that you have not faced a team that booted into or away from the boundary.
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2012 14:14:23 GMT -6
Everyday by 9am, I am to have the script for our team periods where we go best v. best to the HC/DC. Everyday he comes to me asking what this is or that is. Like clock work he came to ask me today what something was. I explained that we were putting in a bootleg off of zone read play. He said ok and walked out of my office. When we ran these plays, spaced out by ten other plays in between, he had the foresight to call a corner blitz into the bootleg both times. This is not the first instance of this, but probably the most blatant. Has anyone ever dealt with this? Any suggestions on the most professional way to handle the situation? FWIW...Our up coming opponent has not run a corner blitz in the 243 snaps I've seen of them on film. Funny thing is, we haven't run the corner blitz in any of our games either. I always hated naked plays. |
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Post by coachdag on Sept 19, 2012 14:21:22 GMT -6
We do best on best, but it's not scripted. Well, the O has a script and the D has a script. And we go at each other once or twice a week for ten minutes to see who has it and I tell ya, the kids love it. But the O has no clue what the D is going to come out in and the D has no clue what the play is.
I used to run our scout D against our O and I would blitz more than normal just to get the starting O pissed off ans stop relaxing. By the third time the QB was "tagged" he threw a fit at the O line and they started to actually give a damn and block better. We learned from that and do the above to keep that competition going.
I would agree with changing the script or jumping plays or skipping a play here and there. See what the reaction is. If the HC gets all pissy and says you're not following a script, shrug your shoulders. Say "My bad" and move on.
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Post by newhope on Sept 21, 2012 13:29:42 GMT -6
1. Disregard all of these people who are telling you ways to sidetrack the HC. That's going to bring you trouble. He's the HC, you're not.
2. He might be trying to put you in the toughest possible postion on a particular play.
3. Why not just tell him when you give him the script that you're putting something in and you would like to see a particular look against it? If he's interested in the best things for the good of the team, then he'll do that. If it's about something else, then you're probably in the wrong program to start with--get out. It's pretty obvious the two of you don't work together but rather at odds with one another.
4. I will agree with some of the others on here---I don't see the point in doing best v best everyday running your own stuff on both sides---shouldn't you prepare for what you're going to see at some point?
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Post by 19delta on Sept 21, 2012 16:31:38 GMT -6
I used to OC for a head coach (also the DC) who would have a live, 10-play, starting offense versus starting defense goal line period. Here was the rules I had to follow for the period: - dub-tight, full-house formation - no passing - no trick plays (included naked boots and counters) Basically, I could run power, sweep, trap, g-belly, double lead, and dive/double dive/double dive keep. That was it. Of course, the defense pounded the crap out of us for all 10 plays. We break the huddle and the defense literally has all 11 defensive players within 5 yards of the ball and they are blitzing every down. I was really upset the first time it happened...head coach was talking sh1t and defensive players were whooping and hollering about how they were kicking our a$$es. Of course, whenever we were in a game situation and we were in goalline defense, the offense didn't have those restraints and we seldom, if ever, stopped people from scoring. Head coach couldn't understand it..."We work on goal line defense all the time" he would say...  It got to the point where I would just shrug my shoulders when it was time to do the goalline period in practice. I would go up to our QB and say to him, "you know the deal...time to drop our pants, bend over, and grab our ankles" and just try to get through the period as quickly as possible. That year, I think we set a conference record for total yardage surrendered...thinking back, we gave up something like 350+ a game RUSHING. That year, in 9 games, I want to say that we gave up well over 4,000 total yards of total offense. |
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