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Post by 33coach on Sept 8, 2012 14:21:21 GMT -6
Just played our second game...and got rocked 26-6. Just blew out of the water like we shouldnt have been there.
we were bigger. Stronger and faster. By a large margin. Our issue is....we drill and drill and drill and yet...the kids dont use what we drilled in the game.
Our drills are solid we rep technique we dont beat eachother up in practice..and yet it looks like weve never done any of it.
How do you guys get kids to transfer knowledge and drill techniques?
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Post by mariner42 on Sept 8, 2012 16:45:26 GMT -6
Have you explained how and in what situations these drills are useful? For example, I can do wrong-arm drills all day long, but if I'm assuming that the kids know to wrong arm kickout blocks, it may be all in vain.
Do you transfer drills from individual settings to group to team? Again, if I work DL wrong-arms in indy, do we run plays in inside run that force the DL to wrong arm? And again in team?
Just some thoughts.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 8, 2012 21:33:21 GMT -6
Coach. Thank you for your response. I am talking with my coahes over beers. And talking about your response. And the answer..is...
When we go from group to live. We dont nessessarilly work everything we work on in group.
Good thoughts..
Thanks!
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Post by grouchy71 on Sept 9, 2012 21:31:32 GMT -6
Coach,
Fantastic topic, I've struggled with this in the past as well, and again a bit this year. I hate to say it, but a lot of it for us seems to be a need to do more "Team" periods during practice. I never liked going team, I always thought you just drill the heck out of the fundy's and everything else took care of itself. Coaches and players get lazy during Team, fundys suffer, etc. I've come to a compromise where the first and last thing we do now every practice is full contact 11v11 best on best. Especially with blocking and tackling, there's something about doing it in a live situation (ie scraping off a block, stumbling, getting spun around then finding the ballcarrier and being able to make a tackle) that can't be replicated fully during drills. Plus, starting with 11v11 is a great way to set the energy level for practice. Kids want to know if they made the 11v11 lineup for that day, etc. The other thing I've run into in the past is the kids taking "instructions" from the coach more as a "suggestion" for how they could play something if they so choose. A lot of this was due to my personality and approach during the week, and sometimes a nutty has to be pulled to help these young men realize that if I #$@!ing tell you to do something, that's how it is to be done, end of story. Just my 2 cents,
Grouch
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 9, 2012 22:09:43 GMT -6
How many drills do you use to simulate game situations? For example, with trap, have you ever lined up 3 linemen and a RB against 4 defenders? You can get in tons of those reps a lot faster than you could by running a scrimmage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 10:33:30 GMT -6
Have had some of those issues ourselves. I think the theme of the thread states it, keep reinforcing why you do things, and how they fit into the "grand scheme" of things. You have to realize that when the lights go on it becomes "survival of the fittest" and sometimes tech. suffers. You need to rep these skills enough, and in live situations that the tech. YOU want comes out when it's survival of the fittest!
Duece
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Post by patriotd on Sept 10, 2012 12:19:08 GMT -6
We are currently 2-0 and been in a having great success with technique transitioning on the field. We only do 10 mins of fundys on defense each day. But we always start the day with some sort of competition before we practice anything. I've seen more technique used when we line up in Oklahoma drill or 1 on 1s. There's something about letting your teammates see you whip someone or getting beat before they realize they need to use technique
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Post by fantom on Sept 10, 2012 13:12:13 GMT -6
We are currently 2-0 and been in a having great success with technique transitioning on the field. We only do 10 mins of fundys on defense each day. But we always start the day with some sort of competition before we practice anything. I've seen more technique used when we line up in Oklahoma drill or 1 on 1s. There's something about letting your teammates see you whip someone or getting beat before they realize they need to use technique Glad it's working for you but I can't endorse this method. I don't believe that Oklahoma improves technique. I believe that you improve technique through repetition of doing it right.
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Post by mariner42 on Sept 10, 2012 13:33:36 GMT -6
We are currently 2-0 and been in a having great success with technique transitioning on the field. We only do 10 mins of fundys on defense each day. But we always start the day with some sort of competition before we practice anything. I've seen more technique used when we line up in Oklahoma drill or 1 on 1s. There's something about letting your teammates see you whip someone or getting beat before they realize they need to use technique Glad it's working for you but I can't endorse this method. I don't believe that Oklahoma improves technique. I believe that you improve technique through repetition of doing it right. I don't think of that category of drills as helping your technique, but he touches on something that a very successful coach I know preaches on frequently: they start every practice banging heads before teaching and start every game the same way. He really believes it mentally primes them because they burn off adrenalin and learn to focus after getting after it early.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 10, 2012 20:00:03 GMT -6
Think like a teacher. When I introduce a lesson, I go WHOLE, PART, WHOLE.
How you break down the practice schedule should follow this schema.
If you want to focus on traps and counters, then you need to introduce it to the whole defense: formation and alignment, front/stunt, and secondary run fits.
Then go to indy and have each position group work on defeating traps and counters. -DL wrong arm and spill -LB scraping and filling -DB covering reads and support
If it is a total scheme point of view, then first make sure you are aligned properly, then make sure you don't get out flanked, then stress getting to the ball.
From the OP, it seems to be a technique transferral. However, we talked last week about something like this as being a big part of defense: PURSUIT. An anecdotal story about playing the option was about who had pitch..... pursuit had pitch. The point being, defense is about getting at least as many if not more than the offense has at the point of attack.
Can you give more info?
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ko49
Sophomore Member
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Post by ko49 on Sept 10, 2012 20:26:17 GMT -6
I agree with the whole-part-whole philosophy. And also with prioritizing your game-plan focus. We made the mistake in our first game of trying to take away every little thing a multi-faceted, well-drilled offense wanted to do. The result was that we didn't get good at anything and therefore stopped nothing. This week (and from here forward) we're going to define what we must stop, drill the heck out of it and stress positioning, tackling and pursuit to take away anything we haven't specifically prepared for.
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Post by fantom on Sept 10, 2012 21:13:24 GMT -6
Glad it's working for you but I can't endorse this method. I don't believe that Oklahoma improves technique. I believe that you improve technique through repetition of doing it right. I don't think of that category of drills as helping your technique, but he touches on something that a very successful coach I know preaches on frequently: they start every practice banging heads before teaching and start every game the same way. He really believes it mentally primes them because they burn off adrenalin and learn to focus after getting after it early. I can see the usefulness of starting practice with a competitive drill but I certainly don't see them as a replacement for time working on fundamentals.
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Post by 33coach on Sept 10, 2012 21:48:51 GMT -6
This is a great thread. A ton of help i would love to see this keep going!
Part of me thinks im too 'x's and o's'..meaning my coaching staff and I might be too technical with the kids (especially at the middle school level now)...maybe teaching too many techniques and not enough live scenarios.
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ko49
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Post by ko49 on Sept 11, 2012 5:14:59 GMT -6
33coach,
It's an old cliche but it's true: it's not what you know that matters, it's what the kids can execute. I lost sight of that in week one and paid for it. Don't want to make that mistake again...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 6:21:41 GMT -6
I have a question about whole part whole, I mean, do I line the ENTIRE defense up and explain how to defend trap? In reality, that's a waste of time IMO and you lose the kids. You might be better off doing that in a meeting setting (which at my level, I can't do), and maybe reinforce with some film, however you will lose those DB's who have to wait for you to stand there and explain EVERY little facet of defending the trap properly.
How I'd do it, is in group sessions. I mean, if trap gets to the DB's, then it's an excercise in open field tackling, so they really don't need to be involved. Same thing with the pass, the DL know, high hat, rush the passer, but they don't need to know the "in's-and out's" of defending curl-wheel do they? This is where I think group work helps, in that you take the front 7 or 8 and show them, "Here's how we should defend trap". After that then you break it down into the individual components and work on the technique only to reintroduce the whole concept back to the group. I may be missing something here, but I think you would eat up a lot of valuable teaching time by teaching the WHOLE group when only a portion is affected by certain plays.
Duece
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 11, 2012 7:10:08 GMT -6
I was using trap as just one example of a technique.
The whole (1st) is the general over view: formations and plays. It is the introduction.
The part is the individual technique work that you focus on for that day. It is the indy, inside run, perimeter, 1/2 line, option read, etc... periods.
The whole (2nd) is the team segment where you rep plays.
So a kid hears this 1- "They line up like this and like to run trap." 2- "This is how work on defeating traps." 3- "Good job of wrong arming the puller on that trap." Or, "WHAT THE HADES ARE YOU DOING THAT IS NOT WHAT WE JUST SPENT 20 MINUTES WORKING ON!!!!!!!!"
In my last stop, we had a new HC come in and totally change the offense from a Pro I/spread team to the Wing T. He had a unique way of installing the offense 1-Indy was nothing but the buck sweep 2-Group was nothing but the buck sweep 3-Team was nothing but the buck sweep. Total time was about 20-25 minutes
We went back to Indy and then did the same thing with waggle. That is how he progressed the team through the play book.
Duece granted, we have several position coaches, so while we are doing pre-practice and the DC is talking about trap, I do a quick reminder about run fits with the DBs, but I might also fill in the dead time with some more relevant things for my DBs like play action, alignment ques, WR's speed, etc...
The main thing that we look at the big picture, focus on the individual components of the big picture, then put the big picture back together.
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Post by blb on Sept 11, 2012 7:39:25 GMT -6
You can be the best-drilled team in America but if you can't play the game it doesn't matter.
I learned very early on that there's no substitute for experience. That is, young players need game or game-type situation "reps."
The conundrum of course is finding enough to time to teach fundamentals and skills as well as doing above.
Making use of small Group work (Inside-Outside, Half Line, 7-on-7, etc.) helps with transference.
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