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Post by cqmiller on Sept 6, 2012 14:33:04 GMT -6
Not sure if this is the right section or not, but here it goes...
We are currently in the middle of my 2nd year in charge of the football program. Since my arrival I have been trying to get the "culture" switched to where the kids in the school want to be part of the program, where the program is something the school can be proud of, and to get the entire mindset out of here that was here when I came. Completely changed the colors used within the program, bought new home and aways, changed helmet color, started a mandatory after-school study-hall M-W for 1 hour before practice begins to keep kids eligible, secured a deal with Under Armour for all of our uniforms, gear, shirts, hats, etc... just to try and get some positive feelings about the program out there.
School has not made playoffs since 2003...
Has not had more than 3 wins in a season since 2003...
Was shutout 5 games the year before I arrived...
Gave up an average of 40+ points a game before I arrived...
Practice was almost "optional"...
Offseason lifting was almost "optional"...
Best athletes could do what the want, when they want without repercussions...
Mental and Physical toughness of entire program nonexistent...
In year one, we were only shutout 1 time (last game of season), and installed the basic offensive and defensive schemes and reads. Pro-style offense with Zone/Stretch & Power/Counter being the primary run plays, and the basic 3 and 5 step pass plays (slant/arrow, hitch/seam, smash, flood, PAP floods). Defensively we are an over/under 1/4's team that will roll cover 3 occasionally.
Coming into year 2, we thought we had all of the "rotten apples" that were leftover from the previous program out the door with the large senior class from last year, and we are starting 9 sophomores on varsity and 5 juniors. 14 of our 22 starters have never played for the previous staff... We have a core group of kids that are every-day kids, but we are having problems with what seems like defiance and apathy. It seems that as our demands have gone up for the kids, their willingness to meet those demands has gone down. Kids finding ways out of doing things (getting a doctor's note saying he is cleared to play varsity DB, but not able to play varsity RB due to a prior knee injury; having parents schedule doctor's visits and rehab for "boo-boo's" during practice time, and my personal favorite... "I am tired and have a hard time concentrating in school... I think I have a concussion". Then conveniently having a symptom pop up on the 5th or 6th day so the clock starts all over again...
Trying to instill toughness, desire, and a culture of winning, but it seems like the kids and parents are just fighting against me in getting to that level.
Has anyone else experienced this or overcome this dilemma?
I keep looking for something else I can do as the HC or that my assistant coaches can do to try and get the kids to WANT to change the culture around, but winning/losing football games doesn't seem to be a motivator for these kids and their parents. Had a kid worried about his "stats" after the game we won because the opponent only ran the ball 20 times because they were losing, so our tackle stats were low...
Shouldn't be this frustrated in the middle of a season where we have the ability to make the playoffs for the first time in a decade.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 6, 2012 15:42:38 GMT -6
Honestly, coach, you have the laid the foundations for success within the program. I know your off-season program is established, your kids are well-coached and you're bringing enthusiasm to the community. It may not seem like it now, but I imagine the interest is there. It sounds like you have a serious accountability issue going on with the parents right now but those parents won't be around forever. You'll just have to wait it out, hold the kids accountable on the field ("Well, if you're too dinged up to play RB then you're too hurt to play football for us, period") and hope it clicks. It only takes one or two good, hard working classes of kids coming through to turn that corner.
But, ultimately, the kids have to play the game and their parents are the ones that need to start holding them accountable. We can't do sh-t as coaches or teachers if mom and dad are letting the kids slide at home.
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Post by newhope on Sept 6, 2012 16:24:44 GMT -6
Been there, done that. I think you're on the right track. Keep insisting they do things the right way. Play those kids who do the right things over those that find ways not to practice---they'll eventually catch on. Don't get yourself in a bad spot by letting them know you think they're faking---but find someone else. The answer is always "I"m playing the people who practice". You're playing a lot of young kids and the key will be getting THEM to buy in. If they do, you'll be fine.
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Post by mariner42 on Sept 6, 2012 22:06:29 GMT -6
Never waver, don't be afraid to lose games to establish a principle or maintain your philosophy.
Have you thought about ritualistically sacrificing one of them? Just a thought.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 7, 2012 7:52:00 GMT -6
Never waver, don't be afraid to lose games to establish a principle or maintain your philosophy. Have you thought about ritualistically sacrificing one of them? Just a thought. Yup, you just gotta be patient enough to lose every game one season so that you can win two the next. And, win two the next year so you can win three-four the year after..... All the while you've collected several dozen voodoo dolls that resemble PITA parents and community members. |
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tekart
Junior Member
Posts: 298
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Post by tekart on Sept 7, 2012 8:23:53 GMT -6
It is my 2nd year and this is what I am going through as well. Waiting for leaders to step up and kids to start doing things right. The school I am at is notorious for having good teams in middle school and as freshmen but then it gets to hard and they bail so it has been a constant just wait 2 years till this next group gets to high school.
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Post by CS on Sept 7, 2012 8:58:04 GMT -6
Never waver, don't be afraid to lose games to establish a principle or maintain your philosophy. Have you thought about ritualistically sacrificing one of them? Just a thought. Yup, you just gotta be patient enough to lose every game one season so that you can win two the next. And, win two the next year so you can win three-four the year after..... All the while you've collected several dozen voodoo dolls that resemble PITA parents and community members. Ithe program I'm at now is exactly like what you are dealing with coach. We have the doctors notes and parents who make their kids sissies. Had a parent call me 45 min before the game last week to tell me her son wouldn't be coming to the game because she didn't want him standing in the rain! We are trying to do the same thing you are here and we will see if it works. We just get rid of the kids who pull that crap. Last year they were the ones who didn't show up to practice or just flat out quit on us in a game so it's no real loss to us. And we have a good group of kids we enjoy coaching minus one kid I wouldn't piss on if he was on fire. Fact is change happens slowly if the community has a losing culture. There is going to be kick back from kids and parents at first because people do not like change, but eventually(hopefully) the culture will start being turned into a winning one. |
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Post by blb on Sept 7, 2012 9:04:05 GMT -6
Don't compromise your expectations. Sink or swim your own ship.
I tell our kids, "This isn't Burger King. You can't 'Have It Your Way' here."
You must be willing to lose in order to have discipline, and you will most certainly lose if you don't.
What I hear those kids saying is "Coach, I don't want to play Football for Midvale High."
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Post by mitch on Sept 7, 2012 9:08:23 GMT -6
I hope you are a patient man, because it will take years.
I have been there, but only briefly. I'm not patient.
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jjm
Sophomore Member
Posts: 133
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Post by jjm on Sept 7, 2012 9:13:24 GMT -6
Man, been there and done that. A school I was at had the exact same thing. Due to the fact that numbers out for football were small, they hold you hostage. I never heard of Osgood Schlatter disease until that point. I will bet 40% of the boys claimed they had this at that school. I got so tired of it one day I told one of the parents it was from all the inbreeding going on and that's why they were excited when I moved there because their gene pool increased! The were losing also, before I got there I saw scores of 62-0 during the season with no wins. The good news is that a class came through that was hardcore football players and loved the weight room. That one class changed the whole program around. They bought in and were very successful. The parents were great and pushed their kids to work hard and be accountable. That was 6 years ago and last year they were undefeated. You may have to take some lumps but if you can be patient, it will pay off. Oh, the numbers increased from 26 to 68. Funny how competition cured the rash of Osgood Schlatter disease. At least now we know the disease is preventable!
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Post by champ93 on Sept 9, 2012 7:13:45 GMT -6
The culture described above is like an elephant. We as coaches are the elephant drivers. Because of the mass and power of the elephant, the driver can only do so much to guide the elephant to go where the driver wants it to go, even if the destination is in the elephant's best interest. The elephant will go where it wants despite the best interest or skill of the driver. Gain the elephant's trust and the driver has a chance. Piss the elephant off and the driver is done.
It also doesn't hurt if you have a talent-laden elephant.
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Post by joelee on Sept 10, 2012 8:48:35 GMT -6
In my first head coaching job I thought I could change the culture fast and I was wrong. I'm not so sure that type thing can be done fast even by a hall of fame type coach. I thought the players would buy in faster, that they just hadn't had a good coach before me and so on. I was wrong. I got fired. I am a better coach now.
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Post by irishdog on Sept 10, 2012 11:29:14 GMT -6
Patience, patience, and more patience. It is easier to change the kids' character, attitudes, etc. than it is to change the adults in the school/community. You only have the boys for a few hours a day... Then they go home. To change a culture you have to reach the adults as well as the kids. Meet with the parents/boosters/administrators/faculty and staff/maintenance and custodial staff/alumni/attend town hall meetings etc. Invite all of them to take part in the program in some way, shape, or form. Meet with the youth coaches, hold a clinic/camp for the youth program and teach them what you want them to do. Identify all those adults in the community who show a genuine interest and make them your allies. It is these folks, and your assistant coaches who will ultimately help you change the culture of the school and the community. You cannot do it alone.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 10, 2012 19:47:07 GMT -6
Not sure if this is the right section or not, but here it goes... We are currently in the middle of my 2nd year in charge of the football program. Since my arrival I have been trying to get the "culture" switched to where the kids in the school want to be part of the program, where the program is something the school can be proud of, and to get the entire mindset out of here that was here when I came. Completely changed the colors used within the program, bought new home and aways, changed helmet color, started a mandatory after-school study-hall M-W for 1 hour before practice begins to keep kids eligible, secured a deal with Under Armour for all of our uniforms, gear, shirts, hats, etc... just to try and get some positive feelings about the program out there. School has not made playoffs since 2003... Has not had more than 3 wins in a season since 2003... Was shutout 5 games the year before I arrived... Gave up an average of 40+ points a game before I arrived... Practice was almost "optional"... Offseason lifting was almost "optional"... Best athletes could do what the want, when they want without repercussions... Mental and Physical toughness of entire program nonexistent... In year one, we were only shutout 1 time (last game of season), and installed the basic offensive and defensive schemes and reads. Pro-style offense with Zone/Stretch & Power/Counter being the primary run plays, and the basic 3 and 5 step pass plays (slant/arrow, hitch/seam, smash, flood, PAP floods). Defensively we are an over/under 1/4's team that will roll cover 3 occasionally. Coming into year 2, we thought we had all of the "rotten apples" that were leftover from the previous program out the door with the large senior class from last year, and we are starting 9 sophomores on varsity and 5 juniors. 14 of our 22 starters have never played for the previous staff... We have a core group of kids that are every-day kids, but we are having problems with what seems like defiance and apathy. It seems that as our demands have gone up for the kids, their willingness to meet those demands has gone down. Kids finding ways out of doing things (getting a doctor's note saying he is cleared to play varsity DB, but not able to play varsity RB due to a prior knee injury; having parents schedule doctor's visits and rehab for "boo-boo's" during practice time, and my personal favorite... "I am tired and have a hard time concentrating in school... I think I have a concussion". Then conveniently having a symptom pop up on the 5th or 6th day so the clock starts all over again... Trying to instill toughness, desire, and a culture of winning, but it seems like the kids and parents are just fighting against me in getting to that level. Has anyone else experienced this or overcome this dilemma? I keep looking for something else I can do as the HC or that my assistant coaches can do to try and get the kids to WANT to change the culture around, but winning/losing football games doesn't seem to be a motivator for these kids and their parents. Had a kid worried about his "stats" after the game we won because the opponent only ran the ball 20 times because they were losing, so our tackle stats were low... Shouldn't be this frustrated in the middle of a season where we have the ability to make the playoffs for the first time in a decade. Keep CHOPPING WOOD. You're on track |
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Post by cocoach on Sept 11, 2012 10:45:08 GMT -6
I have had several conversations on this topic as it relates to the school system as a hole. People who are smarter than I said the following when it comes to establish culture.
1) First describe what it looks like and why
2) How are you (staff) going to develop it, whats the process?
3) Who will be responsible for follow up?
Then place in if this is not working then we do what?
Hope this helps
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 12, 2012 19:33:05 GMT -6
You're doing all the right things coach. Stay the course. Keep doing the little things like that and wins will take care of themselves, which is going to make the kids want to be more involved. We're going through a lot of the same issues right now. Just as you described, practice and workouts almost optional, kids strolling in whenever they feel like it, some up to an hour late. Those days are gone, and these kids need to understand it.
See you in a few weeks.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 13, 2012 11:30:51 GMT -6
Rsmith... you guys gave Roy a heck of a game last week. How are things coming? I have heard you guys have a ton of kids out compared to the last few years. I assume it is kind of how I was last year with a hundred kids who haven't played before or thought that a new coach would let them just do "whatever"... numbers are back down to around 70 for me (9-12) #1's are competitive vs. just about anyone, but with 9 sophs and 5 juniors starting varsity, it gets really scary when #2's go in!
Good luck this week vs. Skyline
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Post by paulfrantz on Sept 13, 2012 13:43:31 GMT -6
Well for this one I have to get my soap box out. The problem I see is the entitlement attitude by young people, and unfortunately it is sometimes reinforced by parents and coaches. sometimes you come to a program where that stuff has been allow to go on. I am in my third year of trying to turn around a program with some of the same issues. The previous coach was scared of losing players if he was too hard on them, this is a very small school. But by doing that he was also 2-7. I let them know real quick there is no easy way, it's hard work and dedication that breeds success. I told them I would rather lose without them than win with them if they couldn't get eith the program. We were 2-7 that first year and we lost some kids, but the ones who stuck it out were dedicated and last year we were 7-3. This year we are expecting to go deep into the playoffs. If the culture you want doesn't exsist there, you have to make it and trust that it will happen, and the team will be better for it. It does take time and patience. Good Luck
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Post by rsmith627 on Sept 13, 2012 17:44:39 GMT -6
Cq, we're thin due to injury right now. We had pretty good turnout early but we have lost some. We will be alright going forward. We are in the same spot you have been in. Just gotta keep working that rebuild.
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 15, 2012 22:01:33 GMT -6
Well, season ends Wednesday. After Fall break we will sit down as a staff and talk about how to continue changing the culture. This school has no tradition of being competitive, winning, or even being accountable for anything. Tough to build those traditions and expectations when they have never existed in the past.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 16, 2012 11:36:25 GMT -6
Keep up the good work coach... you guys did some things well last week against us. I know there are some coaches from around the state that have PM'd me on here about getting together and sharing ideas as to how to get some of the programs going while surrounded by all the recruiting going on around here. Let me know if you want in on that meeting.
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 16, 2012 21:49:56 GMT -6
Will do. Our biggest thing last Friday, and all season really, were the needless penalties. We love holding on that backside for some reason. Everytime we get a drive going, we have to get off game plan because we shoot ourselves in the foot and get into 2nd and 20.
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 16, 2012 21:50:34 GMT -6
Oh, and the amount of recruiting here is unlike anything I have ever seen.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 16, 2012 22:01:56 GMT -6
Yeah you guys would probably be slightly better if you had the Bateman kid going to Alabama next year like you are supposed to...
Hopefully with Cate gone, you and I can start keeping our kids that have been going to C-wood.
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ko49
Sophomore Member
Posts: 117
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Post by ko49 on Oct 18, 2012 9:10:16 GMT -6
cq,
You and I are living the same coaching life at the moment. My scenario is almost identical -- 2nd year HC, program hasn't won a playoff game since 2001, only one winning season since then, bad feeder programs, griping parents, largely indifferent administration, kids who want to do it but are conditioned to lose and lack confidence, etc... We were 2-8 in my first year (last year) and are currently 1-5. It's not easy to say the least.
I get discouraged sometimes and I admit there are days when I think, man , just pack it in and spend more time with your family and play more golf. But that's just the worst of me talking. The thing that has me encouraged is this: with such a big laundry list of problems to address, we're taking the long-view and are really prioritizing how we want to fix this. Fortunately, I have an administration that doesn't demand I win now (they're of the mindset that as long as the team plays hard and the players conduct themselves properly, winning games is secondary). With that in mind, we're throwing as much effort and resources as we can muster into building a great weight program. Last year we raised and spend about $5,000 to upgrade our school weight room and this year we intend to double that. Our school has never had a comprehensive off-season training program and it shows on the field. We had about 40% full particpation in the program last off-season (our first) and we hope to double that this coming year. The goal is 100% of course but we're being realistic. Bottom line, if we can get our guys stronger, get them training together and help them build the confidence and cameraderie that busting it in the weight room can provide, then we have a chance. This to me is more important than X and O's because the X and O's won't work without it. Once we do this we'll move on to item #2 on the checklist. It requires patience but it's the only way I can see us being successful down the road.
Good luck, Coach. Just remember that Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a good program!
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bingo1
Freshmen Member
Posts: 78 
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Post by bingo1 on Oct 18, 2012 13:14:19 GMT -6
Been reading these post and feel like I got to write my situation. If it sounds like crying then so be it, but I really don't know where else to turn in an attempt change the culture I am dealing with at this current school.
I have been coaching football for 20 plus years now. 14 years of that as a head coach. Now in my current situation, I have become completely frustrated with this district. I have been a coach here for 14 years with the last 8 years as the head coach. The culture here at this school is so apathetic I find it very difficult to stay positive (which I have been all season). I refuse to let the kids and staff see my frustration.
As a staff we have tried many of the ideas the coaches have suggested. We hand out a lot of cloth. Have an off-season program that carries high expectations. We have done many team functions in the off-season to encourage team unity and competition. Have sent our varsity athletes to our elementary schools to interact with the younger kids through eating lunches and reading programs. We sent these kids into these schools to try and get the younger boys excited about being a football player.
When I took this job we were having little successes here and there the first two years. Then the third year we qualified for the playoffs (first time in 4 years). The following year we made it to the quarterfinals. The following year we only had 6 seniors come out for football followed by a non-motivated junior class and then it was a struggle all over again. Three years later we get in the playoff as the last seed and get tromp. The last two years the talent has been somewhat better, but the lack of size up front and the quality up front hasn't panned out. This years’, seniors have been a joy to coach but the junior class is very disappointing with their attitudes and the future seems very bleak.
Our student demographics are varied a great deal. Our Administration,
informed us today that nearly 60% of our students are on free and reduced lunches. We have approximately, three elementary school that provide us with little or no athletes.
I have tried to work with our youth town team board but have run into a brick wall. Many of our youth coaches are more worried about winning a city championship than developing the youth with fundamentals and enjoyment for the game. Some of our coaches at the youth level are intentionally running off kids so they don't have to play them the mandated quarters. These are the kids we need that are not getting the parental support at home.
I currently only have two varsity coaches teaching in the high school building. Last year our DC went to the freshman level, which left us with an opening for the varsity level. We had a qualified candidate apply for an opening only to have our Administration replace the opening with a non-coach. Often times during the off season we only have one coach running the program (which is the head coach) the other assistants are either coaching or not involved.
Advised is greatly appreciated. Is this program in need of a change at the top?
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Post by mahonz on Oct 18, 2012 13:33:13 GMT -6
We hand out a lot of cloth. Question. What is cloth? |
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bingo1
Freshmen Member
Posts: 78
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Post by bingo1 on Oct 18, 2012 13:37:36 GMT -6
team garb in the hallways. T-shirts mostly.
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Post by mariettablue on Oct 19, 2012 16:03:03 GMT -6
You can transplant a garden of weeds into a Gold and Diamond planter but it will still be a weed garden.
Someone mentioned and I second that you have to work on it from the middle school program so once they get to HS they are where you need them to be. It's really hard to convince someone who has preconceived notions of what their HS football team is like. Once people feel like your team is bad, it takes several years of success before they can be convinced.
The problem with starting at the HS level is that you have to restart the process with the ninth graders every year and once you pull them in you basically lost time and effort that could have been put to better use.
If you can reach them before they get there it should be a smoother transition. Another thing you can do is , if it's possible, get some of your players on the field at the next level. It doesn't have to be a D1 program either. If you are able to get a handful of scholarships each year say with players that are good enough on the field and the classroom a chance to play at the next level it will give your program a boost.
Where I'm from I went to "the " school and then the other schools started benefiting because we had an abundance of kids that could go somewhere else and start that were on our third string. Once the other schools were able to get some kids in college, it became more attractive to players that could have gone elsewhere to stay.
JMO
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