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Post by coachbdud on Sept 5, 2012 23:08:18 GMT -6
I need an outside the box answer to a problem
I am at a complete loss for what to do next with my team... Our entire staff is at a loss
We have to be the worst practice team ever, and it appears our kids do not even like football
So far they have proven to be gamers but unless we start getting better each week at practice I fear we will get destroyed in league play
For the last 2 weeks straight we have had just terrible practices, no energy, effort was minimal... kids asking if they can just not practice... kids telling me they want to quit, not because they are mad about playing time or any other thing, just because they dont feel in to it... this is a starter saying this!
Ive tried asking kids what we can do to make practice better, we have gone to walk throughs on monday cuz we have some guys beat up ...
I've tried yelling, tried talking, tried less team time (almost no indy), ive tried less team time, ive tried shorter over all practices, day practice, night practice... it doesn't matter
Our entire staff is at a loss... we arent adding new plays and kids messing up... You can probably tell I am a minimalist from the grab bagger thread and today we couldnt run our base offense crisply...
Not that we are uncapable of doing so, just don't have the heart to try hard at practice... Our Captains arent really captains and do nothing, and some of them are the biggest offenders...
Again we have tried every thing we can possibly think of...
They have played pretty well in games (2-0) but in a few weeks we start league play and our league is one of the top leagues in Northern CA... I fear we will go 0-5 in league if we keep practicing like this and it just does not seem like they care
This isnt a case of "kids these days" or "back in my day" or a generational thing...
Our frosh and JV kids arent like this... the kids last year werent like this... even the seniors , who played varsity last year, werent like this as juniors as year ago...
I am just at a complete loss...
Any ideas how we can jump start some focus and energy in to the kids?
What is scary is the fact that they arent having fun, you would think that if we are not getting work done at practice, its because they are having fun goofing around... the kids dont even smile at practice... we only practice for 2 hours a day... not some 4 hour marathon
Help !
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 5, 2012 23:20:22 GMT -6
You could try a total reboot. Burn a practice learning how to practice.
Have you asked the kids what they like doing at practice?
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Post by coachbdud on Sept 5, 2012 23:43:55 GMT -6
You could try a total reboot. Burn a practice learning how to practice. Have you asked the kids what they like doing at practice? I've asked... Nothing Mid summer we did some Oklahoma drill type stuff and that got them going a little, but we are way to beat up for that and most of the kids would refuse saying they couldn't at this point Best thing we did over summer was I split the kids up into 2 separate teams... As even as I could and we played a game... Each team had only like 15 total players... Everyone had to play both ways, a few kids out of position... But because it was a game they competed their butts off Can't get them to do this vs a scout look cuz it's "practice" The one good thing is every game like situation they rise to the occasion... 7 on 7 tourneys, scrimmage, camp, first 2 games
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 6, 2012 0:19:20 GMT -6
Maybe hype every drill as being a competitive "game?"
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coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
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Post by coachriley on Sept 6, 2012 0:22:39 GMT -6
Well coach im only at a middle school and our 8th graders are the same. They are down for practices but great for games. All we have found so far is do what you can for practice. Sorry im not much help
Sent from my MB865 using proboards
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Post by smfreeman on Sept 6, 2012 5:23:37 GMT -6
Our coaching staff literally sat down last night after practice and had the same conversation. We are in the same boat you are in 2-0 and our wins have a combined record of 0-4 but we think we are awesome.
We decided to mix up our periods we are using. During indy period all of our skill kids are coming together and we are working live perimeter block period. We are going to run our game clock with for periods and when the clock sounds we move on to the next station. If kids are dragging individually they get sent to the head coach who is going to condition the player until the next period when they will get to try again. If you get sent to the head coach twice you get sent home and that means no playing time on Friday.
For this season we have tried to cut down our practice times and keep it at 2 hours and 20 minutes with warm-up and special teams, but our kids have dragged through making practices long and not fun. We hope that by switching up periods and trying to add efficiency with the game clock it will help.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 5:31:58 GMT -6
Had this issue a few years back, you need to make every drill competitive in live situations. Do your walk throughs etc. that's fine, but when you go live, there needs to be a cost. Come up with a scoring system for every drill and at the end, the loser has to do up downs while the winner gets water, or the winner gets popsicles at the end of practice why the losers clean the locker room. It takes some effort from the staff, and that's where I had my issues was keeing score, but if you make them accountable it helps with effort.
Duece
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Post by coachbuck on Sept 6, 2012 6:00:06 GMT -6
I also think you have to have the philosophy that you can play without some of those guys. Yes they may be better but when your in league and your getting your a@@ handed to you, its going to make you even madder that they dont care. If its as bad as you say, find out how much they really do care. Sit some guys that arent practicing hard and reward the lesser player who is practicing hard. These kids care more than you think, my guess is they dont feel threatened about their position. Like alot of the comments, competitions in everything. Im having the same issue with some of my soft starters. Im starting different guys tommorrow, we will see how it works for me.
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Post by newhope on Sept 6, 2012 6:01:59 GMT -6
1. Structure practice with short periods (no more than 10-15 minutes) and demand a quick tempo through everything you do. They won't have time to not like it. 2. Don't make everything a competition...but put in a short 10 minute period each day that is a competition....we don't do these all the time....but we do from time to time...put them in groups (we use stretch lines)...do a creative type of relay...reward the winners with 2 sprints off at the end of practice...don't up down the losers...they already hate practice 3. The real issue, from what you post, may be your leadership. You comment on your captains. How did they get those positions? It doesn't sound like they are leaders. 4. Be enthusiastic...your whole staff needs to be. Set an example.
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Post by blb on Sept 6, 2012 6:18:08 GMT -6
Could the problem be that you've been practicing since "Mid-Summer"?
Too much of a good thing, even Football, is still too much.
Do you wear full pads every practice?
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Sept 6, 2012 6:37:25 GMT -6
How about giving them a day off? How much did you practice this summer? 7 on 7 etc..? If they feel "grinded" they will go in to self-preservation mode.
"If I go hard all the time my body will give out, so I will dog it in practice and turn it up for the games."
Kids are different now for the most part. You can't grind them into submission unless you have some special kids who like it and come from homes who preach the same thing you do.
Unfortunately our kids are almost the opposite. They will fly around in practice against teammates, but them play timmid on gameday.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 6, 2012 7:11:37 GMT -6
competitions:
-2nd & 8, good on good, best 3/5 or 4/7 -goal line or 3rd & 4, same consequences -set turn over minimums for the defense or face con sequences -set completion minimums during 7-7 -get some young bucks that want to prove themselves and let them be rabbits during pursuit, give a goal-- no gains of ___ yards before everybody tags off the rabbit
these are probably nothing that you don't already do, HOW the staff approaches these segments is the key. If the OC/DC act like these periods are more important than the Super Bowl, then usually your TRUE captains pick up on this generate the energy.
Heck, when we get into these ruts, usually when the competing coaches start taking it personally, then the kids start following along. Start talking a little junk to the DC when yall pop off a couple big plays, same goes when the defense blows up a couple of plays for the DC. If your kids have any gumption about them, they start to take up for THEIR coach.
Your staff might need to script it little so they know it isn't personal, but the staff needs to create the energy. It doesn't have to be a big production, but when our OC starts letting the DC know that the 'salad bar is open, all day, every day', things tend to pick up a bit.
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Post by blb on Sept 6, 2012 7:36:03 GMT -6
I have an apparently minority philosophy.
Although our practices are up-tempo and move very fast we don't do "competitions."
I don't want to exhaust our kids emotionally during the week.
It's hard enough to get "up" for every game much less every practice.
We do some things to force enthusiasm and just for fun but otherwise want kids to focus on improving individually and the process of preparing for next opponent.
We want the emotional charge of the game to affect us for the better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 7:46:28 GMT -6
Have you ever structured your practice like a game? Instead of having "team periods" you instead have "offensive drives". For example practice starts with the KOR team vs the JV KO. Offense takes the field. Has an 8 play drive that finishes with a TD. EP team takes the field. FG is good, KO team hits it. Defense has an 8 play series, ends in a punt... offense then takes the field...etc. etc.
Seems to work for us. We call it wacky Wednesday. Only practice a max of 2 hours. Kids like it better than the structured practices they do on Monday and Tuesday.
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Post by agap on Sept 6, 2012 8:21:21 GMT -6
We started practice off yesterday with a competition, team D against scout O for 10 plays. That helped our guys practice harder, at least defensively.
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Post by CS on Sept 6, 2012 8:24:58 GMT -6
Coach had the exact same problem last year the way we ran practices. This may help have only 5 min periods and make a plan and work it. It may feel sometimes like you don't have enough time for some things but that is ok because it creates a since of urgency and makes the kids feel like practice is going by fast. We had 3 hour practices in the summer and they were great! They actually said they felt like it was flying by. You may do this already I don't know. We tried a little music in practice on we'd if mon and tues practices were good. It's a pretty sad deal around here also so we have to work extra hard to keep motivated
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Post by coachklee on Sept 6, 2012 8:34:51 GMT -6
The one good thing is every game like situation they rise to the occasion... 7 on 7 tourneys, scrimmage, camp, first 2 games Do one of these each day...not for long, maybe 20 minutes maximum. Maybe have individual work be competitions to with the winner getting a gatorade. Reach the reacher drill... King of the boards drill... Something with the LBs & RBs DB & WR 1 on 1s if you are a man team defensively... Modified leveled Oklahoma drill with OL vs. DL, then 5 yards away RB/TE type vs. LB, then 5 more yards WR vs. DB. If your numbers are on the low side work OL vs. DL & ILB, WR & RB vs. OLB & DB... I do an OL/DL react to down block or reach drill...send me a PM with your e-mail and I would send you a diagram outlining the drill... Our o-line has struggled finishing their blocks to the whistle. I am now doing at least 1 or 2 competitions per week with a reward for the winners and punishment for the losers. We've become more intense this past week...hopefully that helps us notch our 1st win!
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Post by carookie on Sept 6, 2012 9:15:34 GMT -6
Without knowing the attitude of all your coaches I don't know if anyone can accurately answer what to do. I imagine all your coaches have positive "rah-rah" attitudes, but for a lot of kids that type of stuff just wares on them. Couple weeks into the school year now and the grind is just setting in. As has already been mentioned, I would encourage chunking your schedule at a heavier level; maybe if you have a good relationship with the kids just shoot the breeze with them for a bit, bring some levity to practice (which has become a chore to them). Lots of times after my first Indy session I have a bunch of cones set up, without even thinking I started trying to flip a cone and have it land on another (from about 5 feet away). Couple kids saw it and started trying it, none of us got it but everyday after the first water break my group would come back and end up doing some sort of silly little game like that. Yeah, it burned a couple minutes of practice time (which I know is in high demand) but I think it kept the kids upbeat. Also, we'd have coaches competitions. Usually something that no coach could have a big advantage at (left footed XP kicking, bowling a football at a cone). Each kid would choose a coach and if their coach won they were rewarded (no conditioning, first in line for team meal). If you are willing to drop that in somewhere in the middle of practice it might break up the monotony somewhat.
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 6, 2012 9:24:31 GMT -6
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Post by CS on Sept 6, 2012 9:35:57 GMT -6
Coach do you use the techniques in the book? Just wondering because I will take a coaches word for it if it works and buy it right now
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kyle
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by kyle on Sept 6, 2012 9:57:58 GMT -6
Had this issue a few years back, you need to make every drill competitive in live situations. Do your walk throughs etc. that's fine, but when you go live, there needs to be a cost. Come up with a scoring system for every drill and at the end, the loser has to do up downs while the winner gets water, or the winner gets popsicles at the end of practice why the losers clean the locker room. It takes some effort from the staff, and that's where I had my issues was keeing score, but if you make them accountable it helps with effort. Duece This is what I was thinking. It was weird the day that I realized that I liked a challenge more than winning.
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Post by coachbsoffense on Sept 6, 2012 10:00:21 GMT -6
How about some music during practice? We had issues with enthusiasm at practice a few weeks ago... blared some music from my car and it fixed things. I'd continue doing it if it didn't kill my battery. If you can get a sound system out to your practice field it might be something to look into.
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Post by M4 on Sept 6, 2012 10:03:14 GMT -6
I recently took a position as OC at a new school with a HC who's a good friend of mine, his practices are very "loose", everything is in uppers and shorts or shells, very minimal live contact, he has a pretty loose practice structure that he changes as need be etc, often we're only on the field foor 2 hours 1 ay a week sometimes we're done in 90 minutes. He's real big on keeping the kids fresh and making them super hungry to play the game. We do all the install before practice on the board, he gave me 10 minutes and told me if I couldn't explain my concepts in 10 mintues then it's t much for 1 day of install.
This was a huge rude awakening for me, it was everything opposite of how I operated my last team. The dynamic in the school is very different though, all academic or gifted kids, consistently a top teir school.
It works for them and I figured it was my job to fit in. If I was in charge the structure would be alot more disciplined, but this has given me a lot of food for thought on practice structure and team building. Our kids LOVE football, they have a great time on the field theres alot of chatter and hooting and hollaring after big plays, it's almost like a party out there. The 1 thing I will admit is that when it's "go time" our kids know how to shut up and give it hell. It blew me away the first week, I was frusturated at times.
I'm turning into a believer...
So long story short...
Sometimes you gotta change it up, try a George Constanza, do the opposite of what you would usually do and see if that kick starts something.
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Post by blb on Sept 6, 2012 10:06:48 GMT -6
Give 'em a Monday off.
You say kids are "way too beat up" - cut back on hitting. Don't wear full pads more than two days.
If you do Conditioning at end of practice try to make it fun - "Concealed Running."
Keep day before game practice to an hour.
Or maybe you just have a team this year that is not a good "Football group" - they have some ability, play because that's what they do in the Fall, but don't really like the sport all that much.
We've all been there. Not much you can do in that case.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2012 10:56:41 GMT -6
"G** D*** Preston, carry it like you're stealing a TV."
just spit coffee everywhere...
thanks for that.
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Post by gdoggwr on Sept 6, 2012 10:58:55 GMT -6
Our HC blew practice dead once and we all lined up and played duck duck goose. Then we started the timer back up and went back to work. It turned the whole practice around.
You can definitely overdue that kind of stuff, but if the guys are feeling ground up sometimes a silly game can snap them out of it.
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 6, 2012 11:01:56 GMT -6
Coach do you use the techniques in the book? Just wondering because I will take a coaches word for it if it works and buy it right now Like any book you take what you like..I do need to say that i've aligned my philosophy to this book..it explains so much about ourselves....for instance, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be mental tough if you are dehydrated..yes IMPOSSIBLE...if your kids have only had a candy bar for brakfastit is IMPOSSIBLE to be mentally tough..isn't this really what we are talking about
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Post by Chris Clement on Sept 6, 2012 17:29:22 GMT -6
I'm confused. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of anecdotal evidence of people being mentally tough when dehydrated.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 6, 2012 17:48:47 GMT -6
I gave my kids this past monday off. They were dropping like flies last friday. We have so many guys going both ways, I just thought they could use an extra day to heal up/freshen up. Got to tell 2 quick stories along the line of this thread. One of our conditioning deals is duck duck goose. I've only done it once but the kids were having so much fun with it that practice ran over 25 minutes. It's usually a 10 minute conditioning period, so they were at it for 35 minutes. A parent caught me on the way in and said "I thought practice was over at 5:30?!!" I said "it was." She said "No, you're just now coming in." I said "yea, they were playing duck duck goose and time got away from them, but practice has been over since 5:30." She was speechless - I think she thought I was being a smart@$$. One of our other conditioners is a relay race. 7 guys on a team, I split them up, 2 stay in the one endzone, and then the other 5 are every 20 yards all the way to the other end. The relay is first guy goes 20 yds, tags his teammate, he runs the next 20, etc, the guy in the other endzone runs the length of the field...it keeps going until the entire team is back in their original spot. The kids request the relay race. So anyway, one day I decide to make it more challenging and I make them carry a step over agility bag and hand it off to their teammate. So the relay is ongoing and one of our kids is struggling with the agility bag when one of his teammates (just moved here from Detroit) says "G** D*** Preston, carry it like you're stealing a TV." The kids kept running but the coaching staff died laughing. I eventually said something to Detroit and he said "yea I know coach, but damm, the police would catch him for sure." haha. - Yep, that's what I'm workin with. LOL. This is just ...... just ..... I don't know ..... It is just..... AWESOME! I laughed my butt off. I know that lady thought you were being a smart a$$. Carry it like you are stealing it. Too much fun.
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Post by carookie on Sept 6, 2012 19:16:09 GMT -6
I might add that it works best if whatever you do at least appears to come organically. I was at a school once where every wednesday at the end of practice the kids would get together and free style rap (for maybe 5 minutes). Now let me add, this was the most upper middle class school I had ever been a part of and its not as if these kids had any skills.
In any case it got started because I over heard a couple kids trying to free style after practice, well I hang out there for a while and drag some other kids over to get a chuckle; and soon enough a few more are trying. Well it could have died there but I told one of the kids, who was a team leader, that Saturday before films he was to choose 5 teammates and write their names on the white board, and they would have to freestyle next Wednesday.
From there I just stayed out of it, but the kids loved it. They were all excited for wednesday practice and the intensity remained throughout the season. Sure it was pointless, and maybe two of the kids had any skills whatsoever; but I doubt it would have made an impact had it come from coach. But since it was (or at least appeared to be) organic the kids dug it.
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