dduck13
Sophomore Member
Posts: 130
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Post by dduck13 on Aug 24, 2012 10:49:06 GMT -6
Hi,
I am coaching at the 5th and 6th grade level with my local youth football and was told I was going to be the offensive coordinator. We have our first game tomorrow and the head coach decided to take the playsheet I made and throw it out then replace it with his playsheet (which is similar) and then start calling the plays. What should I do.
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 24, 2012 11:06:12 GMT -6
What else can you do? Let him call the plays off his own sheet. Then ask him what his offensive "coordinator" (by which I suppose you mean head coach of the offense -- no youth teams have or need actual coordinators) is supposed to do on game day.
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dduck13
Sophomore Member
Posts: 130
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Post by dduck13 on Aug 24, 2012 13:06:58 GMT -6
Here is my problem. I am the offensive coordinator of the 5th and 6th grade (junior) team and also the organization's Football Coordinator. So in a sense, I am over the head coach but in another I am working with him. I can not decide wether to make this a big deal or not.
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Post by killiansred on Aug 24, 2012 14:23:33 GMT -6
Here is my problem. I am the offensive coordinator of the 5th and 6th grade (junior) team and also the organization's Football Coordinator. So in a sense, I am over the head coach but in another I am working with him. I can not decide wether to make this a big deal or not. I think that's really shi**ty of him but what can you do. If you truly love coaching then you'll support the change and move on. Finish the year do what he asks of you and reacess your situation in the offseason. Making a big deal of it at this point will only hurt the team. |
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Post by bluedevil4 on Aug 24, 2012 15:47:58 GMT -6
Look at it this way: less work for you, and/or more time you can put into making other coaching points. While he's showing the world how awesome his play calling is, you can help improve players.
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Post by utchuckd on Aug 24, 2012 20:35:48 GMT -6
What else are you responsible for as OC? Do you make any of the practice plans? Scouting? IMO if he wants to take over the play calling he gets to do all the other stuff (if there is any) that comes with the job.
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Post by coachseth on Aug 24, 2012 23:42:13 GMT -6
What else can you do? Let him call the plays off his own sheet. Then ask him what his offensive "coordinator" (by which I suppose you mean head coach of the offense -- no youth teams have or need actual coordinators) is supposed to do on game day. I would disagree with that. I know as a youth football head coach if I don't have coordinators I get so nailed with questions it's not even funny. Coordinators help you in the long run, and it gives them a little more to do besides just individual teaching. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 25, 2012 13:36:57 GMT -6
What else can you do? Let him call the plays off his own sheet. Then ask him what his offensive "coordinator" (by which I suppose you mean head coach of the offense -- no youth teams have or need actual coordinators) is supposed to do on game day. I would disagree with that. I know as a youth football head coach if I don't have coordinators I get so nailed with questions it's not even funny. Coordinators help you in the long run, and it gives them a little more to do besides just individual teaching. How many total coaches do you have? "Coordinator" was a term developed by the pros ~45 yrs. ago because they'd developed large enough staffs to need a kind of middle mgmt. among the coaches. If you as HC are getting nailed with questions (from ACs, I suppose from the context), is it really enough to justify a middle layer as someone's primary job? I'm amazed a staff would be that big for a single children's team. Where I could possibly imagine a coordinator in youth football is on a travel club that fields several teams whose systems and practices are coordinated. Then I could see one each of offensive & defensive coordinator working with all the teams if you wanted to arrange your staff that way. However, the way I understand most youth coaches referring to a "coordinator" of the offense or defense on their team, what they really mean is an AC who has primary charge of the offense or defense. They use the term because they've heard the "real teams" using it. I'd say "head coach of the offense" or "head offensive coach" to distinguish them from subsidiary coaches and from the head coch of the team. |
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Post by blb on Aug 25, 2012 15:02:47 GMT -6
Everybody at every level wants a "title" these days.
How about "Coach" and do your job whether you call stuff during game or not?
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Post by coachseth on Aug 25, 2012 17:22:35 GMT -6
I've always assumed you call the guy who coordinates the offense and offensive coordinator. He's responsible for getting the coaches their assignments on offense, he's responsible for the playbooks on offense, and he's responsible for offensive substitutions. That's why we call him an offensive coordinator, we could call him an offensive coach or just coach but if you make it clear who is calling the offensive plays then when the kids have questions about the offense they can direct them to the right man.
It's just a title, there's nothing overly special about it.
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dduck13
Sophomore Member
Posts: 130
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Post by dduck13 on Aug 25, 2012 17:50:41 GMT -6
Ok...i think some of this is getting off the point I was trying to ask about. I was the playcaller for the offense and then all of a sudden the head coach just took over with out saying anything to me. Should I make this a big deal of not. Also, we had our first game today and I felt pretty left out. I was not involved in any decisions and was not asked for any type of opinion. I have never coached at this level before but when I coached middle and high school I never felt this way. Any suggestions?
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 25, 2012 17:51:16 GMT -6
I've always assumed you call the guy who coordinates the offense and offensive coordinator. He's responsible for getting the coaches their assignments on offense, he's responsible for the playbooks on offense, and he's responsible for offensive substitutions. That's why we call him an offensive coordinator, we could call him an offensive coach or just coach but if you make it clear who is calling the offensive plays then when the kids have questions about the offense they can direct them to the right man. It's just a title, there's nothing overly special about it. How many coaches are there, total, on your team? |
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dduck13
Sophomore Member
Posts: 130
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Post by dduck13 on Aug 25, 2012 20:06:55 GMT -6
bobgoodman,
There are 8 total coaches on our Junior team. I joined the coaching staff with the impression I was going to be running the offense and doing the playcalling and then the practice before our first game the head coach took over and never said a word to me about it. just don't know if this is common at the youth level.
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Post by coachseth on Aug 26, 2012 1:10:02 GMT -6
I've always assumed you call the guy who coordinates the offense and offensive coordinator. He's responsible for getting the coaches their assignments on offense, he's responsible for the playbooks on offense, and he's responsible for offensive substitutions. That's why we call him an offensive coordinator, we could call him an offensive coach or just coach but if you make it clear who is calling the offensive plays then when the kids have questions about the offense they can direct them to the right man. It's just a title, there's nothing overly special about it. How many coaches are there, total, on your team? 4 coaches, 21 players. Every coach has an assignment on offense and defense, the coordinators are responsible for calling all the plays on their side of the ball (the lone exception being the line coach). Also, I think you have to make a big deal out of it. If you were expecting to call plays you need to stand your ground. Nobody likes a head coach who does everything himself, especially when there are other guys that could shoulder the load and maybe see something he doesn't see. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 26, 2012 16:19:36 GMT -6
How many coaches are there, total, on your team? 4 coaches, 21 players. Every coach has an assignment on offense and defense, the coordinators are responsible for calling all the plays on their side of the ball (the lone exception being the line coach). OK, but other than during a game, do you really have a job justifying that title? I'm guessing you practice offense or defense all at once -- although you have almost enough for full platoons, and if you do practice the offense & defense independently then the justification for that title would be even less, there being basically a boss and a single assistant at each station. So if you're practicing all 21 together, it's with 4 coaches, one of whom happens to be head of the team. On my team, with 3 coaches total, one of them has primary charge of offense, and another the defense, but I wouldn't say they're coordinators, because it's just one practice session at a time, nothing really to coordinate unless you count arranging whatever drill we're doing -- and I just call that coaching! It's dduck13's team, with 8  coaches, that could possibly use coordinators who would justify that title. But what I see there is that the HC has given him nothing to do during games. |
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Post by coachseth on Aug 26, 2012 16:41:14 GMT -6
Different strokes for different folks.
I coordinate the defense on my own, someone handles the offense, someone handles special teams, and someone handles the line and their blocking assignments. Maybe coordinator isn't the correct term, but it sounds sexy and assistant coaches respond to it well.
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Post by coachdoug on Aug 27, 2012 1:46:33 GMT -6
4 coaches, 21 players. Every coach has an assignment on offense and defense, the coordinators are responsible for calling all the plays on their side of the ball (the lone exception being the line coach). OK, but other than during a game, do you really have a job justifying that title? I'm guessing you practice offense or defense all at once -- although you have almost enough for full platoons, and if you do practice the offense & defense independently then the justification for that title would be even less, there being basically a boss and a single assistant at each station. So if you're practicing all 21 together, it's with 4 coaches, one of whom happens to be head of the team. On my team, with 3 coaches total, one of them has primary charge of offense, and another the defense, but I wouldn't say they're coordinators, because it's just one practice session at a time, nothing really to coordinate unless you count arranging whatever drill we're doing -- and I just call that coaching! It's dduck13's team, with 8 coaches, that could possibly use coordinators who would justify that title. But what I see there is that the HC has given him nothing to do during games. Bob, the things you decide to get your panties in a wad over just defies all logic. Honestly, who gives a flying {censored} what titles any staff gives their coaches?? Hell, you could call him the Executive Vice-President of Defensive Operations and what difference would it make? You've made some pretty inane comments in this space in the past and I've learned to generally just ignore it, but this has to be near the top of the list of just stupid things to make an issue about. There is no universal dictionary of football terminology. Telling other coaches they're wrong because they use terms differently than you do is simply wrong itself. Any term (including ones that seem to get your tit in a wringer like coordinator or tight end or center, etc, etc) can mean whatever any coach wants them to mean. Sheesh, get over yourself already. |
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Post by M4 on Aug 27, 2012 10:49:14 GMT -6
However, the way I understand most youth coaches referring to a "coordinator" of the offense or defense on their team, what they really mean is an AC who has primary charge of the offense or defense. They use the term because they've heard the "real teams" using it. I'd say "head coach of the offense" or "head offensive coach" to distinguish them from subsidiary coaches and from the head coch of the team. Why does everything have to become to complicated Bob? HC of the offense? WTF? |
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 27, 2012 11:19:18 GMT -6
OK, but other than during a game, do you really have a job justifying that title? I'm guessing you practice offense or defense all at once -- although you have almost enough for full platoons, and if you do practice the offense & defense independently then the justification for that title would be even less, there being basically a boss and a single assistant at each station. So if you're practicing all 21 together, it's with 4 coaches, one of whom happens to be head of the team. On my team, with 3 coaches total, one of them has primary charge of offense, and another the defense, but I wouldn't say they're coordinators, because it's just one practice session at a time, nothing really to coordinate unless you count arranging whatever drill we're doing -- and I just call that coaching! It's dduck13's team, with 8 coaches, that could possibly use coordinators who would justify that title. But what I see there is that the HC has given him nothing to do during games. Bob, the things you decide to get your panties in a wad over just defies all logic. Honestly, who gives a flying {censored} what titles any staff gives their coaches?? Hell, you could call him the Executive Vice-President of Defensive Operations and what difference would it make? You've made some pretty inane comments in this space in the past and I've learned to generally just ignore it, but this has to be near the top of the list of just stupid things to make an issue about. There is no universal dictionary of football terminology. Telling other coaches they're wrong because they use terms differently than you do is simply wrong itself. Any term (including ones that seem to get your tit in a wringer like coordinator or tight end or center, etc, etc) can mean whatever any coach wants them to mean. Then I'll tell you why it matters. Coach is told he's "coordinator", or infers that he's "coordinator" because he's been given charge of certain things. Coach then complains that he has charge of/doesn't have charge of certain other things, says, "A coordinator is supposed to/not supposed to do those things." The HC may want to divide responsibility in various ways among the staff. Using certain titles may result in their incorrectly assuming they're in charge of certain things, because of what they know of the way certain prominent teams with large staffs do things. I'm not sure that's dduck13's problem, but it might be. I would rather that if titles are used, the HC call a coach Grand Poo-Bah or Executive VP of Football Continuity Assurance or some such simply because since nobody else uses that title, no false comparison or inference can be drawn. |
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Post by coachdoug on Aug 27, 2012 14:16:16 GMT -6
While I suppose that is theoretically possible, I've never experienced any coach having a misunderstanding over his title, nor I have I ever heard of any other coach having any problem of that sort. For sure, coaches have had problems when they've been promised certain responsibillites and then had them taken away or never really got them in the first place - as far as I can tell, that's what happened to dduck13 here. There was no confusion (at least not that I can see) over what the term coordinator meant in this case nor I have I ever seen that be source of any hard feelings - and that's in nearly 20 years of coaching and conversations with 1000s of coaches.
There are simply hundreds, in not thousands of things higher on the priority list to make an issue of before something like this would need to be addressed.
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dduck13
Sophomore Member
Posts: 130
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Post by dduck13 on Aug 27, 2012 15:07:27 GMT -6
Just to clear things up...I was told that I was going to be the team offensive coordinator and that the offense was mine to work with by the league president (who in our organization assigns coaches). Also, to complicate things I am the organizations Football Coordinator. This means that any issues with coaches or players come to me for resolution. I am just not sure if I should make this an issue or just let it go and help as I can.
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Post by bigduke6 on Aug 27, 2012 18:28:13 GMT -6
HFC is the HFC. If you don't like it, go be one. Not trying to be a douche bag but this is really nothing uncommon even up to the college ranks. i know many "Coordinators" that differ to the HFC on game day. The coordintors in these situations run the scheme the HFC wants, they run the practices, make up the script for practice, etc... then differ to the boss on game day. They then move on to another school that either lets them call plays or become a HFC them self.
bottom line is, is its his show, he can do as he wants. Get over it or move on and become a HFC or go to a place where the HFC lets you run your deal.
There is more "who's got the bigger {censored}" in youth league than anywhere else. We just had an evening with our youth league coaches and I saw, heard, watched more "who's got the bigger {censored}" than I have ever seen in HS or college. They all got to prove to each other they know more about football than the other guy or flash his badge that says "coordinator", "HFC", "director of whatever". what a crock of {censored} IMHO.
you guys got to lighten up. They are little kids and it supposed to be fun not a pissing match on who does what and what title each guy has.
You got to ask yourself the question: "whats the purpose of what we are doing here?" They are little kids. Let them have fun, you guys have fun, teach them how to play safe and within the rules of the game.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 27, 2012 21:48:47 GMT -6
Just to clear things up...I was told that I was going to be the team offensive coordinator and that the offense was mine to work with by the league president (who in our organization assigns coaches). West Virginia, Dana Holgorsen, Bill Stewart, 2011...didn't work to great for those guys either. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 28, 2012 0:20:11 GMT -6
Just to clear things up...I was told that I was going to be the team offensive coordinator and that the offense was mine to work with by the league president (who in our organization assigns coaches). Also, to complicate things I am the organizations Football Coordinator. This means that any issues with coaches or players come to me for resolution. I am just not sure if I should make this an issue or just let it go and help as I can. Gah! Every time you add another detail, it complicates the politics even more. This time about the president. So...the president puts the coaching staffs together, but then washes his hands of them, and you're the one who has to resolve issues within staffs such as your own? Does your league define a specific role for "offensive coordinator" which is known to all? As to the HC of your team, do you think he changed his mind about what you would do, or that he had in mind all along what he's done? |
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Post by formrbcbuc on Sept 1, 2012 21:52:50 GMT -6
HFC is the HFC. If you don't like it, go be one. Not trying to be a douche bag but this is really nothing uncommon even up to the college ranks. i know many "Coordinators" that differ to the HFC on game day. The coordintors in these situations run the scheme the HFC wants, they run the practices, make up the script for practice, etc... then differ to the boss on game day. They then move on to another school that either lets them call plays or become a HFC them self. bottom line is, is its his show, he can do as he wants. Get over it or move on and become a HFC or go to a place where the HFC lets you run your deal. There is more "who's got the bigger {censored}" in youth league than anywhere else. We just had an evening with our youth league coaches and I saw, heard, watched more "who's got the bigger {censored}" than I have ever seen in HS or college. They all got to prove to each other they know more about football than the other guy or flash his badge that says "coordinator", "HFC", "director of whatever". what a crock of {censored} IMHO. you guys got to lighten up. They are little kids and it supposed to be fun not a pissing match on who does what and what title each guy has. You got to ask yourself the question: "whats the purpose of what we are doing here?" They are little kids. Let them have fun, you guys have fun, teach them how to play safe and within the rules of the game. Agreed, I have seen way too much of this in my short time coaching in the youth leagues. At the end of the day the HFC holds the trump card over all others. While this at times is hard to swallow, remember that the buck stops with him; if he calls a great game great, if he doesn't then the blame is on him for his situational play calling (whether that is fair or not). If assigned with the position of DC or OC I will work my *** off on scheming, scouting, etc. but my main focus is making sure that my player are being taught how to play safely and with the proper technique(s) for their position. IF the HFC decides to change things and take over play calling I may be caught off guard, but I will fall in line because of the coaching hierarchy. If it comes to the point that this becomes an issue that I cannot in good concience accept, then I will talk with the HFC civilly and base my future as a coach with the program based on his response. At the Youth level, unlke the HS or college level, our jobs are not tied to our ability to coach. Discuss it like men and if you are still not satisfied make the concious decision to leave theprogram or see if you can coach with one of the other levels' coaching staffs in your program. |
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Post by jrk5150 on Sept 20, 2012 13:34:39 GMT -6
Just to clear things up...I was told that I was going to be the team offensive coordinator and that the offense was mine to work with by the league president (who in our organization assigns coaches). Also, to complicate things I am the organizations Football Coordinator. This means that any issues with coaches or players come to me for resolution. I am just not sure if I should make this an issue or just let it go and help as I can. How about you ask the HC wtf just happened? Tell him what you told us - what your understanding was, and then ask him what HIS understanding IS. Then, you'll have a bit more information to go on. Specifically, you'll know whether or not he's a total as*hole, which is pretty much what I think the situation is going to be. That was a BS thing to do. BUT, it's possible that he simply assumed you knew he was going to call the plays, that you were just setting everything up for him to do it. And next year, you might want to have this conversation with the HC BEFORE the season so you understand what your role is vs. assuming because of something the President said.  |
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Post by 19delta on Sept 20, 2012 18:32:15 GMT -6
I think some people are getting too wrapped in the use of the term "offensive coordinator".
I read the original post to say that dduck13 was initially going to call the plays but the head coach swooped in at the last minute and called the plays instead.
I think dduck has a legitimate gripe. If you are a part of an organization and you are expecting to perform certain duties that were assigned to you but when the time comes for you to perform those duties you aren't allowed to, that is, IMO, not a healthy way to run things.
Why did the head coach take away your playcalling duties? Did you ask him about it?
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 20, 2012 22:16:46 GMT -6
I think some people are getting too wrapped in the use of the term "offensive coordinator". I read the original post to say that dduck13 was initially going to call the plays but the head coach swooped in at the last minute and called the plays instead. But read his reply #20. dduck13 still doesn't say he was told he was going to call the plays, but repeated that he was offensive coordinator. That's why we're wrapped up in the term, being it's what he wrote, and all that we can go by. I've noticed here & elsewhere that someone with a problem, especially if it's a human relations problem, frequently posts a question and then either never comes back to clarify (after getting a lot of responses) or does much less to clarify the situation in further posts than he gets in responses, even if many of the responses ask for clarif'n. It's like the people trying to help wind up taking a lot of shots in the dark and get little feedback as to whether they're being helpful or not, or even whether the original poster read the responses. Part of the reason may be that the person with the problem is not a regular poster but has searched the Internet for places he might get help, while the respondents are regular discutants in the forum. |
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coaches, that could possibly use coordinators who would justify that title. But what I see there is that the HC has given him nothing to do during games.
