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Post by coachcalande on Jul 20, 2006 19:38:49 GMT -6
Ok fellas...since I have basically tripled the size of the middle school roster while the schools "budget" for coaches and games hasnt changed(I have one paid assistant with about 60 kids) I am in a situation where it looks like we get 5 and maybe 6 games for our "season"...each "game" is just 32 minutes long...i have about 60 kids and would seriously love to a) reward the most deserving and committed kids b) play to win and c) get everyone some playing time. If you multiply 32 minutes by 5 games you get 160 minutes...divide that by the number of players we have (about 60) and each kid, if played equally would get about 2 minutes of playing time for his "season"...kinda rediculous.
some thoughts...
try to two platoon with 3 coaches
have a first and second o
have a first, second and third team defense
limit the studs to "4 quarters" (meaning they can play half the game combining offense and defense) the second teir guys get 3 quarters and the third level guys get 1 quarter of play time on one side of the ball...
one that has me most intrigued as I think it will yeild the best on the field results...
I am the oline coach...I will coach my oline as a two te set most of the time and our backs coach will coach power I, I wing plays...we will essentially coach a power I/i wing package of power runs and play action passes...meanwhile our wrs coach will work with a DIFFERENT QB and a DIFFERENT OLINE on a trips and quads package...that oline would be limited in what run plays they know and rep (trap, draw, maybe) while learning their 3 and 5 step pass pro. essentially, I could see putting 11 kids on the field who are very good at the power/play action portion of the varsity playbook, then subbing in 11 new kids for "passing situation" offense that run a completely different part of the varsity playbook and are good at it . I would argue essentially that we have 22 offensive starters. My thinking would be that we would run teh power stuff inside our 30 and inside their 30 while the passing stuff is from the 30 to the 30...predictable..who cares, its middle school football! ....
defensively, I think I could do the same thing with 11 kids that play say the base 34 and are good at it...then inside our 10 we have a bunch of goal line subs that play the gap 8 and are good at it...22 defensive starters essentially.
thoughts?
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Post by wildcat on Jul 20, 2006 20:12:08 GMT -6
Coach -
It is obvious that you have put a lot of time and effort into coming up with some very good solutions.
The problem I would have with the different offensive sets scenario is that is SOUNDS like (but maybe not) you will be doing more "player management" than actual coaching.
I think that your idea of two-platoon football is the way to go. What happens when these kids get to high school? Is it a big high school? Do the high school coaches platoon?
IMO, the platooning system has lots of upsides:
1. You can theoritically have 66 starters (O, D, KO, KOR, P, PR), maybe even more if you count FG and FG Block.
2. Your coaches will be challenged because they will not have all of the best athletes. As a staff, you guys will have to sit down and decide where kids will have the best opportunity to succeed. This will maximize participation.
3. If the teams you play don't platoon, you have a two-to-one advantage. Teams that play the same 11 guys on O and D are at a decided disadvantage when playing against a team that has 22 starters. When those tired, sweaty, and sore 11 guys go from offense to defense, you will be able to put 11 fresh guys in against them. Think about how much you can get done on the sideline! Teams that don't platoon often have a tough time making adjustments because there really is no time to talk to the kids during the game.
4. IMO, the MOST IMPORTANT FUNCTION of a middle school, freshman, or sophomore coach is to keep kids interested and get them coming back every year. If you create opportunities for ALL kids to play an active role in the team, you will be a tremendous asset to the high school program.
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eaglecoach
Freshmen Member
?ireann Go Br
Posts: 52
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Post by eaglecoach on Jul 20, 2006 20:25:43 GMT -6
As a middle school coach myself, a two platoon system sounds the best for your situation. You have to remember that not all of your players have equal ability, desire or commitment and that decides play time. I am expected to win games, and the players, parents and the school expect that as well. Solid fundamentals for a start of their HS career is what we're about. Not every kid will want, or should play, at the next level. Good Luck
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 20, 2006 20:33:07 GMT -6
Ok fellas...since I have basically tripled the size of the middle school roster while the schools "budget" for coaches and games hasnt changed(I have one paid assistant with about 60 kids) I am in a situation where it looks like we get 5 and maybe 6 games for our "season"...each "game" is just 32 minutes long...i have about 60 kids and would seriously love to a) reward the most deserving and committed kids b) play to win and c) get everyone some playing time. If you multiply 32 minutes by 5 games you get 160 minutes...divide that by the number of players we have (about 60) and each kid, if played equally would get about 2 minutes of playing time for his "season"...kinda rediculous. some thoughts... try to two platoon with 3 coaches have a first and second o have a first, second and third team defense limit the studs to "4 quarters" (meaning they can play half the game combining offense and defense) the second teir guys get 3 quarters and the third level guys get 1 quarter of play time on one side of the ball... one that has me most intrigued as I think it will yeild the best on the field results... I am the oline coach...I will coach my oline as a two te set most of the time and our backs coach will coach power I, I wing plays...we will essentially coach a power I/i wing package of power runs and play action passes...meanwhile our wrs coach will work with a DIFFERENT QB and a DIFFERENT OLINE on a trips and quads package...that oline would be limited in what run plays they know and rep (trap, draw, maybe) while learning their 3 and 5 step pass pro. essentially, I could see putting 11 kids on the field who are very good at the power/play action portion of the varsity playbook, then subbing in 11 new kids for "passing situation" offense that run a completely different part of the varsity playbook and are good at it . I would argue essentially that we have 22 offensive starters. My thinking would be that we would run teh power stuff inside our 30 and inside their 30 while the passing stuff is from the 30 to the 30...predictable..who cares, its middle school football! .... defensively, I think I could do the same thing with 11 kids that play say the base 34 and are good at it...then inside our 10 we have a bunch of goal line subs that play the gap 8 and are good at it...22 defensive starters essentially. thoughts? I don't have much to add b/c I think you have done a good job thinking about it. I would bounce the ideas off your boss, and get input from your assistants. Ultimately it is probably your call. I echo wildcat on the 2-platoon concept. Plus having different units for kickoff etc. Just make sure the kids are getting enough practic time too. Also you really have to think about how you are going to handle end-game/key play situations. If your best athlete(s0 are standing next to you and they are way better than the other kids out there playing are you going to put him on the field or let those kids play? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 20, 2006 20:45:03 GMT -6
Umm..Calande....stick to football, and stay out of math and logic:)
To help set your mind at ease a little bit, shouldn't you factor in that 11 "sets" of man hours are available each game. So you need to multiple your 32 minutes, times 11 (for each possible position), times 5 games. That means instead of 160 minutes, you really get 1760 minutes availble to be played for the season.
THAT number, divided by your 60 man roster, means that theorhetically each kid could play 29.3 minutes in the season, which is almost one entire game both ways. That is MUCH better than 2 minutes right?
If you two platooned, and played both 1st and 2nd string equally, you would be playing 44 kids approx half a game (one way)
I know you have experience at this level, so I don't need to tell you that the hardest part is that you might have 7 "lineman" and 25 WR's/DB's. One way to help with this problem is to have a good rotation system with the WR's, as well as a "special group" that you would want in if you were actually asking the WR to do something other than block. So you might have A&b start, C&D in second play E&F in third, BUT THEN on a pass..."GOLD, GOLD" and B&E BOTH know they are supposed to get in. Have a rule that after a "gold group" the rotation goes back to A&b automatically...for symplicity sake.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 20, 2006 21:08:20 GMT -6
I wouldn't platoon, simply because I would want to expose all the kids to both sides of the ball. I know what you're up against, last year we had 58 freshman and 4 coaches- it was tough. Here's my suggestion-
Split the kids into two evenly matched teams (not an A team and a B team).
Have the teams alternate offense and defense each quarter. Make sure that you have a good rotation system in place for each squad- get used to rotating a player or two each play (takes practice).
Set a special short yardage offensive and defensive units and basically give the kids an easy assignment- RUGBY SCRUM!!! I get a lot of strange looks when I throw a semi-scrub unit out there on short yardage situations and it'll feel weird at first. But you'd be surprised how much you can get out of these kids in this situation. They really feel like they're a part of something special and bust their butts for you.
Having two evenly matched teams will increase your productivity at practice like you wouldn't believe. Its so easy to set up drills and the kids get a really good feel.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 20, 2006 21:20:39 GMT -6
Umm..Calande....stick to football, and stay out of math and logic:) To help set your mind at ease a little bit, shouldn't you factor in that 11 "sets" of man hours are available each game. So you need to multiple your 32 minutes, times 11 (for each possible position), times 5 games. That means instead of 160 minutes, you really get 1760 minutes availble to be played for the season. THAT number, divided by your 60 man roster, means that theorhetically each kid could play 29.3 minutes in the season, which is almost one entire game both ways. That is MUCH better than 2 minutes right? If you two platooned, and played both 1st and 2nd string equally, you would be playing 44 kids approx half a game (one way) I know you have experience at this level, so I don't need to tell you that the hardest part is that you might have 7 "lineman" and 25 WR's/DB's. One way to help with this problem is to have a good rotation system with the WR's, as well as a "special group" that you would want in if you were actually asking the WR to do something other than block. So you might have A&b start, C&D in second play E&F in third, BUT THEN on a pass..."GOLD, GOLD" and B&E BOTH know they are supposed to get in. Have a rule that after a "gold group" the rotation goes back to A&b automatically...for symplicity sake. and this is why Im a phys ed teacher...thanks cant believe I couldnt figure that out....ah well, back to the dw drill manual. right, 32 minute games with 11 guys playing at a time...that makes sense lol. thanks again. |
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 20, 2006 21:23:04 GMT -6
I wouldn't platoon, simply because I would want to expose all the kids to both sides of the ball. I know what you're up against, last year we had 58 freshman and 4 coaches- it was tough. Here's my suggestion- Split the kids into two evenly matched teams (not an A team and a B team). Have the teams alternate offense and defense each quarter. Make sure that you have a good rotation system in place for each squad- get used to rotating a player or two each play (takes practice). Set a special short yardage offensive and defensive units and basically give the kids an easy assignment- RUGBY SCRUM!!! I get a lot of strange looks when I throw a semi-scrub unit out there on short yardage situations and it'll feel weird at first. But you'd be surprised how much you can get out of these kids in this situation. They really feel like they're a part of something special and bust their butts for you. Having two evenly matched teams will increase your productivity at practice like you wouldn't believe. Its so easy to set up drills and the kids get a really good feel. right, our kids are going to have to learn both sides of the ball. cant really practice as two platoons so i like your idea of two even teams...that will take care of 44 kids essentially...though I think ill do it more like two even teams with a couple of studs playing both sides of the ball FOR THAT TEAM and a few mopper uppers...ie the wedge team or crawl squad for the goal line...things like you said...good stuff. |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 20, 2006 21:23:40 GMT -6
Don't worry coach, I'm Gump retarded too, yet still a functional member of society.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 20, 2006 21:24:17 GMT -6
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Post by coachcb on Jul 20, 2006 22:12:16 GMT -6
If you go with two even teams, you can get about 25-40 kids real consistent playing time, especially if you're good at rotating kids.
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