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Sophs
Jul 5, 2012 23:50:59 GMT -6
Post by tothehouse on Jul 5, 2012 23:50:59 GMT -6
Bringing them up to varsity.
1. Must play them the whole time?
2. Good experience going against juniors and seniors and hardening them for the future, minimal playing time?
Discuss.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 1:02:14 GMT -6
Post by coachbuck on Jul 6, 2012 1:02:14 GMT -6
I think its good experience if they are ready. The thing I have seen is sometimes the coaches are putting to much on the sophmore because he is a stud. They usually are not as strong and big as the seniors so they take a pounding. Ive seen two kids that are really good get injured there sophmore years. Put them in places they can succeed and do not overuse them. Remember they are young, even though talented they do not possess the physical strength that seniors do.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 5:46:36 GMT -6
Post by IronmanFootball on Jul 6, 2012 5:46:36 GMT -6
I think its good experience if they are ready. The thing I have seen is sometimes the coaches are putting to much on the sophmore because he is a stud. They usually are not as strong and big as the seniors so they take a pounding. Ive seen two kids that are really good get injured there sophmore years. Put them in places they can succeed and do not overuse them. Remember they are young, even though talented they do not possess the physical strength that seniors do. Emotionally weaker too.
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hwkfn1
Junior Member
Posts: 258
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 6:05:58 GMT -6
Post by hwkfn1 on Jul 6, 2012 6:05:58 GMT -6
Depends on the kid. We brought up three sophs last year. Two did oustanding. The third was "injured" much of the year and now is ineligible this year. The other two should be even better this year.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 6:38:06 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Jul 6, 2012 6:38:06 GMT -6
Bringing them up to varsity. 1. Must play them the whole time? 2. Good experience going against juniors and seniors and hardening them for the future, minimal playing time? Discuss. I wouldn't bring them up unless we need them.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 6:42:32 GMT -6
Post by blb on Jul 6, 2012 6:42:32 GMT -6
We don't bring them up unless they're going to start on at least one side of the ball.
If a younger player and older player are even, younger player plays.
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Post by highball007 on Jul 6, 2012 6:48:47 GMT -6
If a sophomore is up the they better be starting. The one thing I always watch for though is their mental capacity, we have had a few start and they are just not mentally ready to be at the varsity level. We seem to have three or four sophomores start for us every year, at some point do to injury.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 7:22:49 GMT -6
Post by tango on Jul 6, 2012 7:22:49 GMT -6
I normally say they must start. I have a kid that weighs 300 and can play but has a bad body and gives out in about 3 plays. He kills himself to get into shape but still not close. We need him to start but he can't last a series. Do we leave him up or move him down.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 7:33:12 GMT -6
Post by coachbuck on Jul 6, 2012 7:33:12 GMT -6
I normally say they must start. I have a kid that weighs 300 and can play but has a bad body and gives out in about 3 plays. He kills himself to get into shape but still not close. We need him to start but he can't last a series. Do we leave him up or move him down. I dont think he is "killing himself to get in shape" We have 300lbs that are in shape. If he cant play a series then there is no need for him to be playing varsity until he gets in shape. I would tell him this. BLB, my thinking on playing the younger player over the older one is opposite of you. I want to let the senior play. Its his last year. The junior or sophmore have more time, so if its equal Im giving it to the senior. I realize your doing this for player development, but I coach freshman so I play the freshman. lol
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 7:47:36 GMT -6
Post by CoachCP on Jul 6, 2012 7:47:36 GMT -6
I strongly dislike bringing up ANYONE up a level (Fresh to soph) who won't be starting at their main position. I'm okay with anyone moving to Varsity if they're ready to contribute (physically and mentally) or if we've just lost all our key contributors. It breaks up the camaraderie with their classmates, and hurts "Victory Retention" (class loses a stud to a higher class + class loses games they could have won = more kids quitting). I don't mind a kid jumping to starting on Friday nights if he's ready/rash of injuries. But a kid going from freshmen to sophomore, and there being a pretty solid soph kid at that position already and they just want to slightly upgrade, I think that's utter BS. Your robbing development from the kid that's probably just as good or close to as good, and a lot of those kids who struggle will become solid players their senior year with good coaching. But if you give up on them and bring a lower classmate ahead of them to play, they'll probably switch positions or quit. As you can guess... sore subject. I don't like losing freshmen to the sophomore team, especially when they're not utilized like they should be. If there is a clear need (injuries, lack of players, just too good for the freshmen level) then I get it. We lost a solid tailback once though to the sophomores because they're running back got pulled up to varsity, so I get that, they had a need. Except that he played linebacker the majority of the time and played someone else at tailback 80% of the time. That soph class went 8-1 as freshmen, and our fresh class could have won 3-4 more games with a better tailback (and potential sub linebacker). Now freshmen records don't matter, but neither do sophomore records, except to the team that they are on. That freshmen class is stuggling with numbers now, and I feel a couple more victories could have helped keep a few playmakers. No need to rob Peter to pay Paul. I'm typically a lot more forgiving if a kid moves up to Varsity. Those wins count, and that plays the biggest factor in that victory retention rate. Even if the kid is a key sub, I can get over that. No excuse for lower level to another lower level though if the need really isn't there.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 9:30:42 GMT -6
Post by dblwngr on Jul 6, 2012 9:30:42 GMT -6
We are going to be soph heavy this year on our varsity team. We are a pretty small school so this is not out of the norm for us.
The good news is, this soph group of kids have been playing together a long time and are a really solid group. Looking foward to this years mix of upper class and soph's.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 9:36:58 GMT -6
Post by tothehouse on Jul 6, 2012 9:36:58 GMT -6
Some schools I know bring up sophs for "the experience". One school in particular brings up "all the good sophs" even if they don't play. The coach is closing in on 300 wins.
One vote for the "bringing them up, but not necessarily playing them" angle is that the other sophs that would have been bench warmers to the "studs" now get a chance to play.
Personally, I think if a kid is brought up he should play every down. That means he is better than anyone else you have at the position.
The other part of this...what is your communication like with the lower level coaches and the school regarding this situation? At our school there was a situation like this in volleyball (girls) and it was determined that the varsity coaches misled everyone and were subsequently fired for their actions. I heard the story, but forgot the details.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 9:46:47 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Jul 6, 2012 9:46:47 GMT -6
Some schools I know bring up sophs for "the experience". One school in particular brings up "all the good sophs" even if they don't play. The coach is closing in on 300 wins. One vote for the "bringing them up, but not necessarily playing them" angle is that the other sophs that would have been bench warmers to the "studs" now get a chance to play. Personally, I think if a kid is brought up he should play every down. That means he is better than anyone else you have at the position. Special teams are critical. I believe that if a kid helps you on ST's and gets varsity reps at his position, it's worth bringing hi up.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 9:49:16 GMT -6
Post by carookie on Jul 6, 2012 9:49:16 GMT -6
First depends on the size of your school and team. Do you have Frosh, JV, and V teams or just two levels? Also, what is your states rules on playing time?
I think most generally agree (as do I) that you don't bring up a soph unless he will see significant playing time. No need to bring a kid up and just have him go in on PAT and waste his opportunities to get game experience.
I do think it is good to invite a bunch of them up after the JV season is over for the last few regular season games and playoffs.
Also, pending your depth, you may want to bring a few specific kids up as strictly injury replacement guys. We'd usually bring up the JV kicker and QB with the caveat that they only saw the field if there were injuries to the starter. But I think this pends your state rules.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 9:50:15 GMT -6
Post by powerfootball71 on Jul 6, 2012 9:50:15 GMT -6
We had a soph team untell about 5 years ago. Under that system it was the best of both worlds. We were a 4a school and about 1/2 if are soph games were vs 1a or b11 varsity teams. So at 15 your allready playing 18 year olds. You whould be in some ruff games but it got them hard for varsity and that team never lost more then 2 games in a season over a 25 year period. There was just something cool about being a team of sophs and hanging 40 on a varsity team at there home coming.
When the soph season was over the best 5 or 10 whould get moved up for the last few games and the playoff run. Before the school split I can't remember a soph every starting and at most mabey 3 juniors a year
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 10:01:43 GMT -6
Post by wingtol on Jul 6, 2012 10:01:43 GMT -6
We are a small school so we don't bring anyone up because we all practice together. It's a nice situation because we have started Sophs a bunch over the years because we could see in practice that they were ready to go. There are no rules on playing time in our state so we in theory could have a kid play an entire jv game and varsity game in the same week, we would never do that but we could. We have a JV team and they do get some work by themselves but most of the time they are the scout team.
I agree with them being able to help on special teams, we usually have a number of sophs out there on kick off and return which gives them experience on the varsity level.
Probably not the answer your looking for but I am sure most smaller school coaches are in the same situation where everyone is practicing together.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 10:30:22 GMT -6
Post by blb on Jul 6, 2012 10:30:22 GMT -6
In our state kids can only play one game a week.
I really prefer they play at grade level, get all the PT and experience they can, and develop "normally."
Also by staying together hope that they have some success so when they get to us they have confidence in themselves and in our way.
Occasionally we get that exception, a kid who's ready and needs to play on the Varsity as a Sophomore. But in 28 years that's only been three kids.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 11:00:22 GMT -6
Post by coachguy83 on Jul 6, 2012 11:00:22 GMT -6
We are a school of about 800 kids that is trying to rebuild our program. We have had to cancel our freshmen season for the second season in a row do to numbers in last years freshmen class. So our freshmen are already going to be playing up a level with a handful of sophomores thrown in the mix. That being said in our area players are allowed 6 quarters per week so our studs will probably see the field for at least a half on Friday nights as subs and STs players.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 12:51:21 GMT -6
Post by tango on Jul 6, 2012 12:51:21 GMT -6
The So. above has lost 30 pounds this summer and increased his bench by 50 and his cleans by 35. We are a small school that wins, he is the second best RT or maybe the best when fresh. The other RT starts on defense and we do not have anyone else close. I'm not sure what we will do. He is really working hard.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 13:14:24 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Jul 6, 2012 13:14:24 GMT -6
The So. above has lost 30 pounds this summer and increased his bench by 50 and his cleans by 35. We are a small school that wins, he is the second best RT or maybe the best when fresh. The other RT starts on defense and we do not have anyone else close. I'm not sure what we will do. He is really working hard. I think it matters a lot on how good you expect to be. If you're building it makes sense to keep the young guys together and get used to winning. If you're a legitimate contender you need all of the bullets in the gun.
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dobber
Freshmen Member
Posts: 20
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 15:03:01 GMT -6
Post by dobber on Jul 6, 2012 15:03:01 GMT -6
Don't ask him to do anything he can't do.
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Sophs
Jul 6, 2012 20:35:18 GMT -6
Post by fballcoachg on Jul 6, 2012 20:35:18 GMT -6
We will have a few sophomores play this year simPly because they are better than the alternative and have worked extremely hard. Preferably this would not be the case but we would rather they play and get the experience. I also think that position matters and what you are expecting them to be able to do.
This is an atypical year but it is who we have, in a typical year I have zero problem dressing the top underclass men as a reward but they understand they are there as a privilege or for spot duty, they are still able to play in their JV or 9th grade game.
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Sophs
Jul 8, 2012 6:02:36 GMT -6
Post by realdawg on Jul 8, 2012 6:02:36 GMT -6
I say you don't bring them up unless you are gonna play them a lot. But we also have a rule which allows them to play in JV game then dress for varsity games for emergency situations. An old coach once told me you would lose a game for every sophomore you start. He's been pretty close to being right
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Sophs
Jul 8, 2012 6:38:59 GMT -6
Post by mrjvi on Jul 8, 2012 6:38:59 GMT -6
One advantage I've had with playing sophs is that regardless of their playing time they not only all come back and play the following year, they are exceptional players by their senior years. I have real trouble "rewarding" seniors who decided it was a given that "they were the man" when they've done jack off season. If 2 kids are close to equal, the younger gets the bid. Many of the seniors work harder because they don't want any chance that this could happen. Over my 30 years I'm now more apt to bring sophs up if they can contribute at all. They always get used to the speed pretty quickly. The best teams here perennially are the ones that bring a higher %age of sophs up. Possibly the huge sized schools get that internal competition from their juniors but not us. We still get a smaller group of un-earned entitlement seniors.
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Sophs
Jul 8, 2012 6:59:43 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Jul 8, 2012 6:59:43 GMT -6
One advantage I've had with playing sophs is that regardless of their playing time they not only all come back and play the following year, they are exceptional players by their senior years. I have real trouble "rewarding" seniors who decided it was a given that "they were the man" when they've done jack off season. If 2 kids are close to equal, the younger gets the bid. Many of the seniors work harder because they don't want any chance that this could happen. Over my 30 years I'm now more apt to bring sophs up if they can contribute at all. They always get used to the speed pretty quickly. The best teams here perennially are the ones that bring a higher %age of sophs up. Possibly the huge sized schools get that internal competition from their juniors but not us. We still get a smaller group of un-earned entitlement seniors. I believe in rewarding seniors. I don't mean "entitlement" guys but seniors who've worked hard and deserve their shot. I think that if guys know that if they do things right their time will come there's a better chance that, well, they'll keep doing the right thing.
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Sophs
Jul 8, 2012 7:13:17 GMT -6
Post by mrjvi on Jul 8, 2012 7:13:17 GMT -6
My seniors who aren't the entitlement ones have worked so hard they don't really need to worry about getting beat out unless the younger kid is exceptional. In that case even they would understand and think we'd have a better chance to win with that particular kid starting.
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Sophs
Jul 8, 2012 18:53:18 GMT -6
Post by thehoodie on Jul 8, 2012 18:53:18 GMT -6
I was watching a Mark McElroy DVD on the No-Huddle the other day and he talked about something interesting regarding how they develop their stud 2-way players. They had the following rules:
- In the fall, they bring up their best Sophs to play on the Varsity team, but they are only allowed to play on Defense for Varsity. They also still play for the JV team. - In the following spring, those same Sophs play mostly only on Offense (for Varsity now). - In the following fall (they are now Jrs and full-time Varsity), they let them play both offense and defense if they are good enough.
So, in other words, they start grooming their studs when they are frosh/sophs to be Varsity 2-way players in the future. They do it by only having them play 1 side of the ball (defense) when they are Sophs, then add in the offense later.
Interested to hear what others think of this idea...
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