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Post by coachbdud on Jun 14, 2012 11:07:33 GMT -6
Let me tell you about my situation
I am entering my first year as the OC here and through 2 weeks pf spring ball and our first week of summer practice I have noticed a major issue with my team
Everyone is just going through the motions!!! in both drills and team time the majority of the kids just arent working, we have some serious talent, returning starters and all league players... some very gifted JV players from last year coming up to varsity now and they act like they have done something special and are just going to win games
We only went 6-4 last year, squeaked into playoffs and lost a tight heartbreaker vs our arch rival (2nd loss to them last year) finishing 6-5... First playoff appearance in nearly a decade and instead of building on that, using that momentum from last year and pushing to be better our junior and senior class is acting as if they can do no wrong and dont have to bust their butts. I lost it at the end of yesterday's offensive portion of practice because it was absolutely a waste of a day.
And I am not a yeller/screamer by any stretch of the imagination... for me to get that angry you really have to tick me off.
I think part of the problem is while talented we dont have a lot of depth, our starting 11 on each side is really good, but without quality backups to challenge for playing time the starters pretty much know theyre going to play... so they all come off with this sense of entitlement
any ideas how to deal with this and get things turned around?
I've printed up signs to put up everywhere with the scores in out 5 losses (all to league opponents) with the opponents helmet and logo to try and motivate not to just start but to get better and be able to beat these teams in 2012
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Post by fantom on Jun 14, 2012 11:24:30 GMT -6
I think that you need to challenge them to understand that they're not practicing to be better than the other guys on their team. They're practicing to beat the best player on your schedule. Somewhere out there is The Monster- the guy who'll kick your a$$ and not bother taking your name if you're not ready. He's the guy you're practicing for. Practicing just to be a starter? Pfft! The worst team in the country has starters. If you're going to make noise in the playoffs you'd better be ready to beat-not just play against-STUDS.
With that said let's remember that they're kids. It's human nature to have less of a sense of urgency while you're practicing this time of year.
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Post by newt21 on Jun 14, 2012 11:33:45 GMT -6
ask them one simple question....how good do you want to be? if they're ok with being 6-5, then let them know that a 6-5 season is the pinnacle of where they currently are. however if they want to be much more than that, they need to start putting in the work to make that happen. show them some videos off youtube of some college football programs working out, of olympians working out, of anybody who is pushing themselves. then after the videos ask them again...how good do you want to be? this has worked with most of my kids, but with that being said, some kids are just happy to have a jersey and to just be on the team, and that's the way it is with some kids.
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Post by captmccrae on Jun 14, 2012 12:21:20 GMT -6
bdud,
Don't tolerate one more lazy step; if they don't finish every drill hard, there needs to be a consequence. Do it again, do "up-downs," whatever.
Have a finishing point marked for every drill & demand that they finish through that marker.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 14, 2012 13:09:07 GMT -6
Our kids get that way a lot, it's part of the local culture and they also know that we don't really have the numbers to do a lot about it, or so they thought. Now I just substitute liberally. LT takes a play off? He's out. We only have 6 OL, so the spare comes in. RG takes a play off? He's out. I find the hardest-working scrub I can, turns out to be a tiny RB, in you go. QB stares at a fumbled handoff like an idiot? Backup moves in from slot, LB goes to WR. One truly terrible practice got to the point where we had no subs left. The next kid to get the boot was a real snot-nosed turd, so when I canned him he had a good chuckle that I "couldn't," there was nobody left to replace him. The hell I can't. I'd rather play with 11, because with you loafing, I already was. So we finished with 11 guys. That was an extreme case, but the principle holds.
You might argue that I end up wasting practice reps, but wasn't I already?
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Post by irishdog on Jun 14, 2012 13:18:21 GMT -6
I think that you need to challenge them to understand that they're not practicing to be better than the other guys on their team. They're practicing to beat the best player on your schedule. Somewhere out there is The Monster- the guy who'll kick your a$$ and not bother taking your name if you're not ready. He's the guy you're practicing for. Practicing just to be a starter? Pfft! The worst team in the country has starters. If you're going to make noise in the playoffs you'd better be ready to beat-not just play against-STUDS. With that said let's remember that they're kids. It's human nature to have less of a sense of urgency while you're practicing this time of year. Couldn't agree more! I've had to deal with this often coaching in small schools. I came up with a way to encourage them to give their best effort on a daily basis during this time of the year. I simply tell them after the workout what their record is. Usually after the first workout the record would be 1-0. After the first week we typically had more "wins" than "losses". After that, what record they want is truly up to them. I don't spend a lot of time evaluating each kid during the practice, I look at the big picture. How hard is the entire team working, and are they giving it a championship effort? When you do it this way the lazy ones stand out, and it is easier to determine whether the day was a "win", or a "loss".
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Post by Coach Vint on Jun 14, 2012 13:55:54 GMT -6
I am a firm believer that you get what you are either coaching it to happen, or allowing it to happen. Keep in mind it will not change overnight. The fact is, if they are not hustling, or they are going through the motions, need to change it, and change it immediately.
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Post by coachbleu on Jun 14, 2012 14:21:55 GMT -6
A favorite quote comes to mind. "Sometimes you gotta shoot a hostage" Meet with them as a team, then in small groups, and finally with the leaders individually. See if you can get em on the right path. If nothing happens, crack the whip and start culling the chaff. If you have to get rid of a few, you won't be any worse off.
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Post by coachbuck on Jun 14, 2012 14:24:37 GMT -6
I think fantom said it best. They have to understand other teams are working hard. Example, my sons weightlifting group was power cleaning more than anyone on the team yet it wasn't as much as I know he could do. I told him exactly what fantom said to say. Your not trying to be the best on the team your trying to be the best in the league.
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Post by coachks on Jun 14, 2012 14:41:05 GMT -6
Start benching kids during practice. If they do not feel there is competition from the backups, show them otherwise. What is more important in June, setting a tone for the entire season, or a few reps for the probable starter?
Your going to get 2 responses. Either they will pout, start b*tching about the program/coaches/teammates and reveal their character. Or they'll get the message and fix it.
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Post by carookie on Jun 14, 2012 14:41:31 GMT -6
Mark me up for another who agrees with what fantom said here. Ive been in similar situations and have harped on kids that this isnt intramurals, its not whose best at the school, but in the state. FWIW Ive never felt that signs or slogans are the way to go, one a season is fine but for the most part I don't think kids care.
Whatll probably work best is some sort of whooping; maybe you put them through the grind at the next practice till they put forth a better effort. But what would be better is passing league. And though I hate so much of what it has become, getting crushed by the state champs in passing league and linemen comps really helps put entitlement into perspective and will cause ears to perk up.
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Post by blb on Jun 14, 2012 15:28:43 GMT -6
fantom is exactly right.
But - it's JUNE!
When is your first official practice? First game?
Remember, kids have a lot going on in their lives.
And Football is not as important to every one as it is to those of us who make it part of our life's work.
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Jun 14, 2012 15:57:13 GMT -6
create competition was going through same thing
So we started to compete for yards in 7/7 treated it like a 7/7 tourney with points and stuff for tipped balls, picks, TD;'s etc
also, did a 4 downs to score from the 20 comp losers do up downs and guys not in must pick a side to live or die with... or just say f it and put the scrubs in and tell the prima donnas they aint earning the reps...
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Post by fantom on Jun 14, 2012 16:19:12 GMT -6
fantom is exactly right. But - it's JUNE! When is your first official practice? First game? Remember, kids have a lot going on in their lives. And Football is not as important to every one as it is to those of us who make it part of our life's work. I think that that's important. When I've visited colleges this is what I've seen: "voluntary" summer workouts are less intense than spring practice; spring is less intense than in-season practice; In-season practice is much less intense than games.
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Post by tog on Jun 14, 2012 18:32:33 GMT -6
show them that the next man is TRULY in and that you mean it
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Jun 14, 2012 19:03:22 GMT -6
Not everyday can be a great day. Praise the heck out of the kids who bust tail. Get on those privately who dont. Set the tone as coaches as to a sense of urgency. Highlight when its good and point out when its bad.
Be careful that your guys dont peak too early. Last year we peaked mid july at team camp. The season was down hill. Build up momentum in the summer but be sure they are fresh and not grinded in August. No score board in June.
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Post by op4shadow on Jun 15, 2012 18:20:19 GMT -6
fantom is exactly right. But - it's JUNE! When is your first official practice? First game? Remember, kids have a lot going on in their lives. And Football is not as important to every one as it is to those of us who make it part of our life's work. I think that that's important. When I've visited colleges this is what I've seen: "voluntary" summer workouts are less intense than spring practice; spring is less intense than in-season practice; In-season practice is much less intense than games. sorry fellas, i don't buy this at all. if you are showing up for a workout...its all out. there are two things that matter in high school football...speed and more importantly, effort. the workouts (weight room, or field) are supposed to get you ready for the season. how can you get ready if you aren't giving all your effort? that's a major issue (in my opinion) with at least teams in my area/league/district. you see kids who don't understand what MAXIMUM effort really means. our kids have been learning it since last year (our first as a staff), and honestly, its still a struggle at times. however, we demand that they give it all on every rep. you would be amazed how far we've come since last year. our head coach has a great saying that i've 100% bought into. "You get what you demand". don't let kids slide. harp effort every play. yeah, your techniue was off a bit, but your effort was fantastic! guess what? technique can be taught. effort has to come from the player. YOU cannot teach it. so, why wait till the season starts to start harping on effort. demand it now, demand it always. and surprisingly...the kids will soon see why you do. and if you are wondering, we get about 40-45 kids every night to our workouts. thats out of 60. and my goodness do they love it!
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Post by coachwilliams2 on Jun 15, 2012 19:16:29 GMT -6
If effort cannot be taught then why do we harp on it? I am not trying to be a jerk but you contradict yourself in your post. I agree that you have to teach kids how to work. I agree that summer is getting ready for the season. But I have been on staffs that were ready to jump off buildings in June because a few kids had travel baseball and missed workouts or we had a bad day in the weight room. I am not saying you accept poor effort. I am saying, like many others, that football is not as important to many of our players as it is to us and if you grind them too much they will find something easier to do. I choose to praise effort and reward those who give it rather than wanting to claw my eyes out in the summer time when the kids are dragging for a day. Life is too short to get mad at 16 year olds for being 16 year olds. *Disclaimer: This has come after years of FREAKING out about every workout and doing all the things I have spoken against in this post. I still struggle with it, but I am getting better. I think that that's important. When I've visited colleges this is what I've seen: "voluntary" summer workouts are less intense than spring practice; spring is less intense than in-season practice; In-season practice is much less intense than games. sorry fellas, i don't buy this at all. if you are showing up for a workout...its all out. there are two things that matter in high school football...speed and more importantly, effort. the workouts (weight room, or field) are supposed to get you ready for the season. how can you get ready if you aren't giving all your effort? that's a major issue (in my opinion) with at least teams in my area/league/district. you see kids who don't understand what MAXIMUM effort really means. our kids have been learning it since last year (our first as a staff), and honestly, its still a struggle at times. however, we demand that they give it all on every rep. you would be amazed how far we've come since last year. our head coach has a great saying that i've 100% bought into. "You get what you demand". don't let kids slide. harp effort every play. yeah, your techniue was off a bit, but your effort was fantastic! guess what? technique can be taught. effort has to come from the player. YOU cannot teach it. so, why wait till the season starts to start harping on effort. demand it now, demand it always. and surprisingly...the kids will soon see why you do. and if you are wondering, we get about 40-45 kids every night to our workouts. thats out of 60. and my goodness do they love it!
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Post by op4shadow on Jun 16, 2012 8:08:10 GMT -6
coach williams, you CANNOT coach effort. you can't. i've never seen a coach line up a drill called effort drill. ok guys, first get in a 3 point stance. then, we build up to a certain level of adrenaline and aggression. then, we drop it in first gear and fly like a mad man. ok, what does that look like? how do you do that?
now, i hear what you're saying, and perhaps i should re-phrase what i mean. we are not having heart attacks over this stuff. if a kid isn't giving effort, he's told and the next guy replaces him. said player always has another chance to correct it. i'm telling you, if we had 10 kids at a workout not giving the efffort that we demand, we wouldn't have 40 kids a night, we'd have 20. thats because these kids love the energy of our practice. if that many kids are going half a$$ed, how fun is it? when kids get into that mentality, its incredible. do all of our kids subscribe to that...no. if it was perfect, all of our kids would be present. we do have those who play summer ball, AAU basket ball, and the likes. we tell them that if that's the case, they were at a practice before coming to our workout, just let us know and we will give them the reps they can handle. during track season, our workouts are after their practice so kids can still come in. the runners won't run, just get a lift in. or, just work with their position coach during the 20 minute individual period.
if you're not competing on every play, what's the point? its wasting our time, the team's time, and youre time. if you're that spent from baseball practice that you can't give max effort...go home and rest. come back to the next workout. its as simple as that. our stance is blunt, and to the point. and it took some time, but our kids are starting to see the results, and we have to hold some of them back at times so they don't get over worked. and i'll take that problem all days of the week! when you coach that way, you have to know where the line is, and we have done a great job of it so far. we have earned the respect and trust of our players because they are seeing we know what we're talking about, and that we will take care of them when they need it. heck, this off season, we've had other sport's kids coming to our lifting/endurance sessions because they love what we do and how we do it. even some females. drives the other coaches crazy because they think we're trying to steal athletes. but we won't turn any kid down who just wants to get a workout in. i don't think that would be happening if we weren't doing something right. we just don't let anything slide. we refuse to enable a kid to slack...they get enough of that at home and in the classroom. we are insisting that if they are here...then LET'S GO. that's all it is bud! and again, the energy is electric
the original post was about stopping a sense of entitlement. those who think that because they think they own a spot, they don't have to work. well ok, maybe you think you own a spot, but look at you're back up. he's killing himself. you think you'll own that spot if you play grab a$$ for the next 8 weeks while he's working? all he's doing is getting better, so you better give some effort to stay on top, because if not, someone's gonna take your spot. and us coaches won't have to do it just because to prove a point, that other kid will be legitimetly better.
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Post by blb on Jun 16, 2012 8:32:04 GMT -6
When I played D-I players - especially upper classmen - HATED Spring ball. And I mean HATED.
Those were scholarship football guys aged 18-22.
What do you seriously expect this time of year from teenagers who play HS football for fun, and in many cases isn't even their favorite sport much less only one?
As far as "entitlement" one thing we tell them is if a younger player is even with an older one, the younger one plays.
So Seniors better not rest on their laurels or expect a "social promotion." And Juniors know they can earn their way onto the field.
As far as them being complacent or "satisfied" with last season - if you can figure out how to cure that, bdud, you can make millions speaking at clinics and in-services. Won't have to teach or coach any more. You'll have that particular market cornered.
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Post by davishfc on Jun 16, 2012 8:39:26 GMT -6
As far as them being complacent or "satisfied" with last season - if you can figure out how to cure that, bdud, you can make millions speaking at clinics and in-services. Won't have to teach or coach any more. You'll have that particular market cornered. Right...he would be a best selling author if he could figure that one out. Discuss what "complacency" means. They're high school kids. I can almost guarantee that some of them don't even know what the word "complacency" even means let alone how to go about trying to address it.
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Post by blb on Jun 16, 2012 8:56:39 GMT -6
Most HS kids aren't thinking beyond their next meal and a lot of them need somebody else to provide them with that.
How motivated are they going to be to practice Football now when their next game is several weeks-couple of months away?
As fantom once posted some of us are getting our "Football jones on" now and get too frustrated when kids aren't into it like we are.
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Post by op4shadow on Jun 16, 2012 10:09:52 GMT -6
you're right, most college kids hate spring ball. and i understand that kids are in summer mode. i don't know...we have had an awesome off season doing what we do. the kids are loving it. its almost like everyone is feeding off of everyone elses energy. i'm not saying anyone is wrong. but we all know kids these days. if they don't want to do something, they more than likely won't. but my goodness, our kids caught the bug, and are getting in this stuff. i work with the oline, and at first they couldn't stand the boring everyday first step drills, punch drills...you know, the stuff that is hit every day and gets kinda boring. i have kids asking to do more of it...staying after workouts, or coming in early. i think that its a direct result from us staying on them, showing them film of what happens when you execute the technique correctly, and incorrectly. they are seeing that they are getting better and are chomping at the bit for more. now i'm no fool, this could simply be because we had a very young team last year and went 1-9, got our tails kicked because we only had 4 seniors who had any chance of contributing, and started a lot of sophmores. their heads were in the tank, and now see how much better they've gotten. maybe that's the case? but i guess we'll see
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Post by fantom on Jun 16, 2012 10:28:58 GMT -6
Most HS kids aren't thinking beyond their next meal and a lot of them need somebody else to provide them with that. How motivated are they going to be to practice Football now when their next game is several weeks-couple of months away? As fantom once posted some of us are getting our "Football jones on" now and get too frustrated when kids aren't into it like we are. We assistants all used to dread when our old HC went on vacation. We knew that when he got back he'd feel guilty and that'd mean ten extra plays that day.
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Post by mrjvi on Jun 16, 2012 12:57:16 GMT -6
I've got a bunch of fall seniors that have made it clear that they feel they should and will start just because they are seniors. I also have some soon to be juniors that think because they were good on JV they will automatically start on varsity. Both those groups haven't committed to much of anything. I have 4 sophs who are busting a$$ and I am praying they beat out some of these guys. I'm not sure if they will but they are already stronger. The best will still play but I'm rooting for them. I make sure my staff knows that if 2 guys are close to equal (including field presence) the one who is younger, especially the one who busted his butt, gets the nod. In my experience, nothing motivates a kid more than competition within the team. It has been true in everything I have coached.
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 16, 2012 15:10:26 GMT -6
Our kids get that way a lot, it's part of the local culture and they also know that we don't really have the numbers to do a lot about it, or so they thought. Now I just substitute liberally. LT takes a play off? He's out. We only have 6 OL, so the spare comes in. RG takes a play off? He's out. I find the hardest-working scrub I can, turns out to be a tiny RB, in you go. QB stares at a fumbled handoff like an idiot? Backup moves in from slot, LB goes to WR. One truly terrible practice got to the point where we had no subs left. The next kid to get the boot was a real snot-nosed turd, so when I canned him he had a good chuckle that I "couldn't," there was nobody left to replace him. The hell I can't. I'd rather play with 11, because with you loafing, I already was. So we finished with 11 guys. That was an extreme case, but the principle holds. You might argue that I end up wasting practice reps, but wasn't I already? I very much subscribe to this belief. If your starter isn't giving you full effort or isn't working hard enough, he's not your starter. Doesn't have to be permanent, but just show that you're willing to play someone else in 'their' spot. I had a very spoiled, lazy group of kids last season. During summer and fall camp, there would be team sessions where I told my assistants to just coach the hell out of whoever was in there and I would just stand behind the offense and sub out whoever wasn't giving full effort to the ball. Nothing dramatic, no big speeches, no shaming, just "Tevin, FS" or "Jose, Will Backer". Eventually, you'll find yourself with the 11 guys who are dying to stay on that field. I'll play 10 cowards and a midget if they're willing to do what it takes to succeed. I know you're a spread/TFS type guy, during your team take off or ROA periods bird dog the hell out of them for effort and finish and sub every single time someone makes an effort mistake. Correct schematic mistakes, but sub effort mistakes. It'll play hell on your tempo, but I think it's a worthwhile trade-off. Plus, you can get after the subs for their effort when they run on to field. SUPER IMPORTANT: Tell them this is coming. Before practice, before offense, before the specific period, whatever, tell them you're going to be taking them out if they're not doing what they need to be doing. It's fair and it is transparent, which I think matters. If you're correcting a behavior, identify to them which behavior you are correcting. I'll also echo some sort of consequence for sub-satisfactory performance in drill/group work. One thing I do that I got from the guy at my alma mater now is having them do 2 pushups. EVERYONE can do 2 pushups. My first day on the job last spring we probably did 25-30 sets of 2 pushups because of effort, focus, procedural mistakes. It's nothing major, you're just saying "That was wrong, this is your punishment, fix it." During an agility workout period, there was a kid who let up a step early EVERY TIME. He did 2 pushups EVERY TIME. He eventually got the message to finish through the line, but the group got the message a lot quicker. AGAIN, SUPER IMPORTANT: Identify WHY they're doing the pushups! I forgot this once, the kids just thought I was being a jackass.
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Post by gunrun on Jun 17, 2012 6:55:51 GMT -6
When I played D-I players - especially upper classmen - HATED Spring ball. And I mean HATED. Those were scholarship football guys aged 18-22. What do you seriously expect this time of year from teenagers who play HS football for fun, and in many cases isn't even their favorite sport much less only one? As far as "entitlement" one thing we tell them is if a younger player is even with an older one, the younger one plays. So Seniors better not rest on their laurels or expect a "social promotion." And Juniors know they can earn their way onto the field. As far as them being complacent or "satisfied" with last season - if you can figure out how to cure that, bdud, you can make millions speaking at clinics and in-services. Won't have to teach or coach any more. You'll have that particular market cornered. I always adhered to the 'play the Jr over the Sr if they're equal,' but I like it even better that you tell it to your players. That way ensures competition and effort vs. complacency.
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Post by blb on Jun 17, 2012 8:16:26 GMT -6
A HOF-state championship coach, one of best I know, told his team every Monday:
"We're looking for 11 guys that want to start this week!"
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Post by newhope on Jun 18, 2012 14:08:09 GMT -6
bdud, Don't tolerate one more lazy step; if they don't finish every drill hard, there needs to be a consequence. Do it again, do "up-downs," whatever. Have a finishing point marked for every drill & demand that they finish through that marker. This!
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Post by sweep26 on Jun 18, 2012 17:17:16 GMT -6
I'm with captmccrae. What you tolerate, you encourage!!
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