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Post by craines10 on Jun 11, 2012 19:51:14 GMT -6
I just joined a staff as QB Coach/Special Teams Coordinator and Thursday during an offensive session with the kids one of the coaches stops the offense in mid-play and proceeds to explain to our running back he is doing his assignment all wrong...Running back job is to check swing...OC tries to explain to other coach why we do it this way and other guy is hell bent on explaining why his way is right. The problem I saw was that the kids gravitate towards the other coach and he proceeds with the situation with RB and QB while backups are in. Being new to the program who is rebuilding how should I buffer that situation? I have already had a talk with him about trying to coach QBs, and he agreed to stay away from that area but I feel it is detrimental to the team if he is openly against the system...Being new should I step in or let the OC fight his own battle?
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Post by Chris Clement on Jun 11, 2012 19:56:34 GMT -6
Is the OC capable of fighting his own battle? Or is he prone to getting steamrolled by the other assistant?
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Post by craines10 on Jun 11, 2012 20:02:36 GMT -6
I don't know. We are two separate personalities. When we talked about it after practice he said he was annoyed by the whole situation and that he is going to talk to the HC about keeping the guy away from him. But the whole issue is we are at an inner city school where the kids may have the perception that he doesn't have a backbone...and that could be disaster
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 11, 2012 20:08:01 GMT -6
My gut says you guys won't be successful. This sounds like the makings of a stereotypical "inner city public school" that always seems to under achieve due to the lack of what I call "professional" coaches. Coaches that don't all know what the plan is before hand.
What is the programs history? What is history of the H/C. What is YOUR history.
Depending on where you are in your career, and other circumstances, I (and this is just ME, based on where I am in my career, and MY circumstances) would want to have a staff meeting about this. Explain to them "while I might be the new guy here, I am not a new coach and have worked with several successful programs. This is NOT a characteristic of success. We need to all be on the same page BEFORE we go out, and all disagreements stay inside these walls. "
Or, meet with the Header..and say "hey guy...if this is how this program is run, I just don't see you guys being successful. Is this a sign of things to come? If so, I think I need to just hand in my whistle now" If he says its not, then have him discuss it with the staff.
But again, that is how I would personally deal with it, at my point in my career and my circumstances.
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Post by craines10 on Jun 11, 2012 20:30:16 GMT -6
Head Coach is entering 2nd year. My first job was under a coach who believed in squashing all that in the office and getting rid of anybody that couldnt understand that. My gut is saying bring it up in the staff meeting next week but wanted to see if I should lay back and let the OC handle it since it is his offense. If I were the OC the conversation would have been ended immediately because he does not even coach offense so therefore he would have been asked to go to the defensive side where he belongs
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 11, 2012 21:03:45 GMT -6
Have they won? Where was the header when all this was happening? Your first job...what kind of success did you guys have (Sadly, that lends legitimacy to points of view when discussing things with someone who doesn't get it.... which is exactly where a defensive coach who corrects running backs on field would fall)...
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Post by op4shadow on Jun 11, 2012 21:31:29 GMT -6
the unfortunate thing is that the damage is already done. with some kids, it only takes that one instance of turmoil...now you probably have at least a few kids scratching their heads and saying to themselves "wow...these guys can't even get themselves on the same page...i'll just do what i do since they don't have it together". someone else posed a fabulous question which i'll echo...where the heck was the head coach during this??? personally, i would bring this up asap. do the right thing, let the OC know you are doing it before you do. don't blind side him, or you could alienate yourself. but like others said, this has bad news written all over it. the cat who is not an offensive coach and stuck his nose in (at least the way he did) would have been fired that night under our coaching staff. i may be a younger coach, but i thought that was the golden rule, always be on the same page, and never have a disagreement in front of kids. heck, our staff has had wars in the coaching office, but once on that field, we have a plan, and stick to it weather all agree or not. this needs brought up...and just because you are new doesn't mean it can't be you. they brought you in to be a coach, obviously there has to be some trust in you. do what you think is right by the kids...if the coaches can't respect you for that, do you really want to be there??
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Post by carookie on Jun 11, 2012 21:53:00 GMT -6
HC has got to step up and put an end to this. Ive been in a similar situation where someone I was stuck with under me was constantly cutting my legs out from me (I later found out it was a lot worse than what I initially thought it was). I calmly talked to him, tried to be professional but there are coaches out there who will cannibalize colleagues and even the season for the sake of their wants and goals.
If the OC is trying to stay above the fray, or for whatever reason can't slow this guy down, then talk to the header about it. And if he won't step in you are in trouble because then this guy will just teach the kids whatever he wants to do, and create fights infront of the kids (even though he knows its wrong he'll do it because few people rarely sink to that level).
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Post by craines10 on Jun 11, 2012 23:10:27 GMT -6
The HC was over on the defensive side running the Defense.
Last season...their first as a staff they were 2-8
Last week was the first day together as a unit and I noticed it immediately so I am sure he was doing it last year.
I think I will bring it up during staff meeting Sunday because the defensive guy cant be there during the summer conditioning days due to his job. So I want him there when I bring it up so the words don't get twisted or misunderstood.
The other reason I didn't say anything to the HC is because I did not want to come off as "ex OC trying to bad mouth current OC"
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Post by coachbuck on Jun 11, 2012 23:50:56 GMT -6
Coaches should never argue or disagree on the field. Figure it out before practice. I tell my coaches if you disagree with me tell me after practice. I spend way to much time prepping to have a wanna be coach disagreeing with me.
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Post by newhope on Jun 12, 2012 6:05:02 GMT -6
Not your job to intervene. The OC should have handled it, and the HC definitely should. That sort of thing can NEVER happen on the field. If the offending coach can't work within the team plan, he's got to go.
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Post by fatboy04 on Jun 12, 2012 7:01:31 GMT -6
Wow. IMO the Header should have called a "come to Jesus" meeting within 24 hours to get that all straightened out. Absolutely unacceptable for the kids to witness something like that. In my 27th year of coaching HS and I cannot believe this team will be better than the 2-8 if the situation is not rectified. Good luck
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Post by Coach Vint on Jun 12, 2012 7:42:29 GMT -6
This is why it is vital for a coaching staff to meet and be on the same page. You need to have a process in place for coaching kids. You coach your position. Period. If you are coaching my guys, who is watching yours? Also, you need to meet. We meet during the off-season, we meet before practice, and we meet after practice. We made darn sure we were on the same page. No debates and no coaching clinics are allowed on the field. If you don't like the way something is done, bring it up in the meeting room. When the decision is made, go with it, regardless of how you feel. That is what being a team is about. And we as coaches must set the example for the kids.
Egos will kill a football program faster than anything else. You have an ego problem and a passive aggressive lack of leadership issue. I wouldn't bring it up in a staff meeting if I were you. He will feel attacked, and it's not your role. The head coach should handle this behind closed doors. If the guy doesn't get it, then he goes. If it doesn't get fixed you may want to update your resume.
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Post by op4shadow on Jun 12, 2012 9:45:37 GMT -6
fellas, i don't want to hi jack a thread, but i gotta ask this question. those who say it's not his role...WHY? i'm not saying you're wrong...and i've got 5 yrs varsity experience compared to your 6-30 years. but i see the coaching fraternity as a brotherhood. if we can't be honest with each other as coaches and brothers, what do we have? i understand an individual may feel attacked, but you can word this in a way where it is brining up an issue, not attacking someone. "hey guys, i wanted to hear your thoughts on an issue i saw the other night...OC, and defensive coach back and forth in front of kids, etc. etc. etc. how can we fix this?" that type of thing. i understand roles, seniority, and such. but don't we tell our kids that you don't need to be a senior to be a leader? don't we want our young buck sophmore to call out a lazy senior who is slacking during drills? in my mind, stepping up and trying trying to correct a problem is the right thing. perhaps the other coaches don't see it as a problem, perhaps they see it as business as usual. if i'm the head coach, i don't want a bunch of yes men. everyone has an opinion, and everyone should have the right to voice their concerns. its up to the header to decide on what is acted on and what isn't, but i would think a good head coach would listen to this particualr arguement, and be thankful someone other than him is thinking. 8 heads collaborating together is always better than one (unless you're a malzahn, belichick type). i just would like to hear your reason as to why this isn't this particular coaches place to voice a concern.
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Post by 19delta on Jun 12, 2012 20:15:37 GMT -6
I don't know. We are two separate personalities. When we talked about it after practice he said he was annoyed by the whole situation and that he is going to talk to the HC about keeping the guy away from him. But the whole issue is we are at an inner city school where the kids may have the perception that he doesn't have a backbone...and that could be disasterYep!
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Post by craines10 on Jun 13, 2012 21:26:08 GMT -6
I have to say that I value everyone's outlook on the situation.
I am not even sure he spoke with our HC about it. Funny thing is that today the defensive coach comes up to me and tells how he is glad that I am on the staff and he feels like the kids are going to be better because of it. I just responded that I was happy to be there and left the conversation at that.
This dude is really all over the place and I dont want to be pulled into any mess or side agendas he has going on. It's crazy.
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Post by insidezone on Jul 3, 2012 1:51:36 GMT -6
It sounds like a coaches office soap opera unfolding before your very eyes if you don't buck up and say something to the man directly above you in the chain of command. I'd find the OC and discuss the situation with him immediately. If the OC doesn't work to get the situation resolved, go to the header and do the OC's job for him.
The others on this thread have nailed the bottom line over and over. IF YOU COACHES DON'T HAVE UNITY, THEN YOUR PROGRAM IS SINKING ALREADY! Everybody associated with your program is vesting WAY too much time/effort/heart/sweat/blood/tears/etc to have it all go to waste due to egocentrism.
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Post by mariner42 on Jul 4, 2012 2:14:33 GMT -6
My gut says you guys won't be successful. This sounds like the makings of a stereotypical "inner city public school" that always seems to under achieve due to the lack of what I call "professional" coaches. Coaches that don't all know what the plan is before hand. What is the programs history? What is history of the H/C. What is YOUR history. Depending on where you are in your career, and other circumstances, I (and this is just ME, based on where I am in my career, and MY circumstances) would want to have a staff meeting about this. Explain to them "while I might be the new guy here, I am not a new coach and have worked with several successful programs. This is NOT a characteristic of success. We need to all be on the same page BEFORE we go out, and all disagreements stay inside these walls. " Or, meet with the Header..and say "hey guy...if this is how this program is run, I just don't see you guys being successful. Is this a sign of things to come? If so, I think I need to just hand in my whistle now" If he says its not, then have him discuss it with the staff. But again, that is how I would personally deal with it, at my point in my career and my circumstances. CoachD, as per usual, speaks my words for me. HC needs to put this situation to bed and if he doesn't, I would consider moving on. Last year I coached in a very lousy situation (partially of my own making), it's really not worth it. I love football, but I love sanity more.
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