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Post by ccscoach on Nov 28, 2006 15:17:31 GMT -6
You guys ever had someone on your staff suspended??? We had are DC spended because some parents of kids(who don't play at all and i don't know why come out for football) complained about him swearing??? How do i deal with this he is our most loyal assistant and he has down anything I ever ask, personally i like the like the guy and he is probably the best coach on our staff. He is a great motivator and gets a lot out of kids that athletically are not very skilled. He used to be good friends with the AD but since this happened him and the AD have not spoken. The coach still comes to our winter workouts and says he wants to be on staff next year. The AD says he is a public relations nightmare but realize how me and the rest of the staff feels about him. What do you guys think?
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Post by tcm57 on Nov 28, 2006 15:35:03 GMT -6
Go to bat for your coach! Work with your AD and see if there is some sort of "plan" or situation that can work for all parties. Try to sell how good of a teacher/mentor he is for the kids -- even though he cusses. AND, you have to get your assistant on page to tone it down - if he truly wants to be a part of it, he'll have to cool it.
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Post by airman on Nov 28, 2006 15:38:06 GMT -6
would you swear in your classroom and not expect to have consequences for your actions? the football field is no different then the classroom IMO. I do not want the kids to swear so I do not swear.
punishment for swearing applies across the board. If I let one rip I am doing the 25 up downs on the spot.
i think he and the ad need to sit down and talk. communication is what resolves problems.
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Post by knight9299 on Nov 28, 2006 15:49:09 GMT -6
Was the DC warned before the suspension? If so, then I can understand the AD's apprehension. But if he wasn't warned then the AD should sit down with your DC tell him what behaviors are NOT allowed if the DC can't handle that then he doesn't want to be back too bad. As a guy who has butted heads with an AD before (and lost) this is how I wish my situation had gone.
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Post by ccscoach on Nov 28, 2006 16:03:10 GMT -6
There was no formal warning just a conversation between me, the AD, and the DC which i took as a joke and I am sure the DC did too which is why we were both blind sided by this..... ....Oh the AD is new this year if the old AD was still here none of this would of happened.....Knight9299 What do think me and the DC should do so i can get him back on my staff next year?
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Post by brophy on Nov 28, 2006 16:08:50 GMT -6
what a bunch of mother {censored} {censored} those {censored} don't know {censored}
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Post by knighter on Nov 28, 2006 16:18:18 GMT -6
what a load of horse (censored). I think this is total bull(cenosred). I say (censored) them all.
Kidding. We have had a similar situation here. My problem is totally based on the fact that our admin goes on hearsay.
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Post by jjkuenzel on Nov 28, 2006 16:54:26 GMT -6
Had a mildly similar situation happen to me this year. I dropped a F bomb during the middle of the game which was apparently audible for everyone in the stadium to hear. I try not to just blast out cuss words, but it was a reaction (kid dropped a 4th down pass on our their 15) and I thought I wouldn't be heard due to the loud groans of the crowd. A mother of a player heard it and also noticed the throwing of the clip board and head set.
She called in that Monday to express her concern and her conversation with the HC did not go well. Needless to say a meeting was set up with myself, HC, AD, supt, and her. To make a long story short, the thing that I did to try and smooth the situation over was to 1) admit fault. I made a mistake and it was something I wish I had not done. 2) I affirmed what her concerns by saying that she was correct in that we as coaches are role models and need to act and talk accordingly. 3) Let her and everyone else know that my language and sideline behavior is something that I will be much more aware of and make an effort to keep under control.
After doing that it really seemed to get everyone on the same page and there wasn't another issue all season. So to recap this is my advice 1. Admit fault and apologize 2. Affirm the other persons concerns 3. Make a plan of corrective action
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Post by coachcalande on Nov 28, 2006 17:33:30 GMT -6
You guys ever had someone on your staff suspended??? We had are DC spended because some parents of kids(who don't play at all and i don't know why come out for football) complained about him swearing??? How do i deal with this he is our most loyal assistant and he has down anything I ever ask, personally i like the like the guy and he is probably the best coach on our staff. He is a great motivator and gets a lot out of kids that athletically are not very skilled. He used to be good friends with the AD but since this happened him and the AD have not spoken. The coach still comes to our winter workouts and says he wants to be on staff next year. The AD says he is a public relations nightmare but realize how me and the rest of the staff feels about him. What do you guys think? its a tough nut to crack sometimes...alot of folks swear every other word, ever see some of the posts on some forums around here? not everyone finds it offensive...but MOST school districts do and this is in fact why many want teachers at the helm...they cant swear in class, and they cant swear on the field...I cringe when i hear players being allowed to swear on the field, sidelines, in the locker room etc...only takes one parent and everyone on staff that is ALLOWING AND TOLERATING it can be accused of ENCOURAGING it. thats the reality. I had a guy call a kid "pus-sy" once and ...well, the kid quit. I dont allow coaches to curse and I dont curse. We work hard at it. IN your situation...what can you do with that guy? can you just put him on probation?..yknow "if you curse once, youre gone" kind of thing...
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Post by pantherpride91 on Nov 28, 2006 18:05:03 GMT -6
I think there is a fine line there between how much a coach should swear and when it becomes a problem. Before I got to the school I am at the previous coaching staff had major problem with swearing kids up and down. With these being 14-18 year olds they shut down after hearing how f-ing bad they were for the millionith time. They did win games and all from watching game tapes and talking to kids you could tell they were timid and just played to not screw up because the next day in films they were going to get ripped. As soon as you take the fun out of the game you take all chances of accomplishing anything out. Now, that being said, our coaching staff at times swears. The difference now is that the kids are understanding we are doing it to really drive home a point and voice our displeasure. We also never do it in a manner to make the kid feel belittled or as though they can not do the task we want them too. I think in the heat of any athletic event or competition you are going to have some possible outburts. That includes players as well as coaches. Football is a game built off emotion and intensity. However, you must keep the outburts and the swearing within the bounds of sportsmanship.
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Post by cartwright on Nov 28, 2006 18:28:11 GMT -6
Our HC never, ever swore. He didn't permit it to be a part of our program. We weren't allowed to get unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, either--if you got one for anything other than an honest mistake (e.g. late hit when you didn't hear the whistle), you were suspended for the next game, period.
He said we win with class, we lose with class; we're not going to use "I'm fired up" as an excuse to start swearing. Football isn't about beating your chest and talking a big talk . . . it isn't about yelling so that everyone knows how fired up you are. It's about making plays and letting your on the field actions do the talking. If you're fired up, go make plays. But don't sit around and yell like an animal to show that you're intense.
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Post by pantherpride91 on Nov 28, 2006 18:43:40 GMT -6
Our HC never, ever swore. He didn't permit it to be a part of our program. We weren't allowed to get unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, either--if you got one for anything other than an honest mistake (e.g. late hit when you didn't hear the whistle), you were suspended for the next game, period. He said we win with class, we lose with class; we're not going to use "I'm fired up" as an excuse to start swearing. Football isn't about beating your chest and talking a big talk . . . it isn't about yelling so that everyone knows how fired up you are. It's about making plays and letting your on the field actions do the talking. If you're fired up, go make plays. But don't sit around and yell like an animal to show that you're intense. I hope your not infering that a coach that swears from time to time is a coach that does not have any class. Now, one that belittles his players and uses swearing as a way to insult or bring shame to his players is another story. I love a player that beats his chest and gets everyone into the game. That kind of intensity is contagious. There a line there that a player must not cross and there is little gray area around that line. If a player uses his mouth and gets in the face of an opposing player, even if he does not get a penalty, that player will be taken off the field. However, if a player makes a big play and comes off the field yelling and screaming at his teammates than that is encouraged. I would have to say football is the only sport we have that beating your chest and talking big is something that has come to be excepted. No other sport do you throw your whole body around with reckless abandon. It is as close to being barbaric as you can get, and sometimes we see those animal like tendencies come out in people
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Post by cartwright on Nov 28, 2006 18:46:46 GMT -6
pantherpride--
I'm not saying that coaches who swear lack class. IMO, intensity doesn't come from beating your chest, but from making plays. Our team was always incredibly intense, and that came from playing with passion, intensity, and fervor. We just didn't feel the need to drop 20 F-bombs to show how intense we were.
I'm not sure I'd say that beating your chest and talking big is something that has come to be expected. Our HC always says, when you score a touchdown, act like you've been there before and like you intend to be going back sometime. Let your play do the talking, not your words on the field.
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Post by brophy on Nov 28, 2006 19:24:04 GMT -6
can a 'case' be made FOR swearing? I doubt it...... it'd be nice if none of us swore, but for some, it's a way of relating - right or wrong. I dunno. Would it be ideal to have a sanitized product on the field? Sure...it's more pallatable for moms. However, I don't think I can repeat ANY of my father's stories of playing football for Jesuit priests at Campion HS. So WTF? ;D I am not making a case or an apology for swearing...because it IS uncouth, however, to further the discussion, one could point to the rationale behind the blue language of the series "Deadwood" , where profanity was utilized to set one's place within the culture, establishing a common ground of where one stood - profanity HAD to be used to set the culture apart from mainstream.
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Post by airman on Nov 28, 2006 19:32:08 GMT -6
on the locker room wall
Ten Reasons Why I Swear
It pleases my parents so much it is a fine mark of coolness it proves I have self-control it indicates how clearly my mind operates it makes my conversations so pleasing to everyone it leaves no doubt in anyone's mind as to my upbringing it impresses people that I have more than a ordinary education it is an unmistakealbe sign of cuture and refinement it makes me a very desirable personality among others and respectable to society. it is my way of honoring God.
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Post by amikell on Nov 28, 2006 20:05:07 GMT -6
airman, that might be the coolest thing I have seen posted in a lockerroom. awesome.
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Post by knighter on Nov 29, 2006 9:17:41 GMT -6
Hey to push the envelope a little.
If you are not going to let me say that a kid is dragging arse, or he needs to get his arse moving etc.
Parents better censor kids music, not allow him to watch prime time tv, nor movies. They also better make sure they watch what they say at home as well.
I know where my kids come from, I know what they watch and listen to, and if my useage of the word arse, or a dammit offends a parent, than they better take a good hard look in the mirror as well. I am not saying I swear all the time, but during a good butt chewing and arse or a dammit goes a long ways as an attention grabber for everyone around. All of a sudden they know Coach Knight is pissed, and he is serious.
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 29, 2006 9:32:54 GMT -6
Hey to push the envelope a little. If you are not going to let me say that a kid is dragging arse, or he needs to get his arse moving etc. Parents better censor kids music, not allow him to watch prime time tv, nor movies. They also better make sure they watch what they say at home as well. I know where my kids come from, I know what they watch and listen to, and if my useage of the word arse, or a dammit offends a parent, than they better take a good hard look in the mirror as well. I am not saying I swear all the time, but during a good butt chewing and arse or a dammit goes a long ways as an attention grabber for everyone around. All of a sudden they know Coach Knight is pissed, and he is serious. That is where I am coming from on this issue. I don't swear much but I do drop the "A" word or the "SOB" phrase (not at anyone just in general) or a dammit now an then. If this offends people I am sorry. I try not to do it. But when I do the kids know I am highly pissed off. I do have a swearing policy with my players. They do 10 updowns for each letter in the word. If I swear I do pushups the same way. To me that tells the kids I am not "above the law". As for the coach I think you need to go to bat for him. But maybe the admin's reaction should serve notice to the staff that swearing is no longer tolerated. I hear all kinds of crap in the hallways from kids. Many kids today just swear b/c they listen to EMINEM or whatever. THey think nothing of swear words in music or on TV. We as coaches should be the role models of good behavior. But NOBODY is perfect. Question: Why is the coach a public relations nighmare according to the new AD? Where do the principal and supt weigh in on this?
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Post by blb on Nov 29, 2006 11:20:39 GMT -6
I don't think you can ever justify dropping an "F-bomb" in a scholastic setting.
There is a double standard at work here, too. If you're successful but use "colorful" language, people will smile and wink and say that's just good ole' Coach Smith, motivating his boys.
If you don't do so well, they will use your "vocabulary" as one of the reasons to get you gone.
I like what Holtz said about the subject: "The Good Lord allots each team only so much swearing, and I will use up our entire allotment.
"When the situation warrants, occasionally I will curse at the situation, but never at an individual."
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Post by ccscoach on Nov 29, 2006 11:25:14 GMT -6
Principal is the AD and the Super(female) has no idea about athletics (her exact words) she just makes a decision based on what she hears and what the AD thinks. He says he is a public relations nitemare because he went to a near by high school and was to say it best a bad@ss type kid(had no home life football got him into college) he had a couple of run ins with the law when he was still in college (beat up a local bouncer outside a bar)......No one really cares about that basically the kids that he doesn't play have parents that are on staff at school so, what the AD gets is my son isn't playing and oh yeah he swearing so he says i will take care of the swearing....He was put on a good PR show lately he has gone to some Volleyball games and is running the weight lifting here but i don't know if it will be enough....I need this guy on my staff....Got any IDEAS ?
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Post by ccscoach on Nov 29, 2006 11:28:10 GMT -6
He doesn't swear at kids he swears at the situation and most the time its more of a motivational thing like come on tommy kick his F-ing @ss or more then like we are goin to beat the every loving PI$$ out of these @$$holes....not your a stupid f-ing kid you f-ing suck...IDK people don't understand him i think thats the problem.
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 29, 2006 11:38:16 GMT -6
How much is he willing to compromise? Is he willing to work on cutting down his swearing? Not using the F-bomb would be a step in the right direction. There is a certain amount of decorum that we need when working with kids.
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Post by ccscoach on Nov 29, 2006 14:12:50 GMT -6
he is really a pretty understanding guy and just wants a chance to get his foot in the door coaching
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Post by coachcalande on Nov 29, 2006 16:00:33 GMT -6
He doesn't swear at kids he swears at the situation and most the time its more of a motivational thing like come on tommy kick his F-ing @ss or more then like we are goin to beat the every loving PI$$ out of these @$$holes....not your a stupid f-ing kid you f-ing suck...IDK people don't understand him i think thats the problem. CAN YOU IMAGINE YOUR HIGH SCHOOL CALCULUS TEACHER..."TOMMY, SOLVE THE F*&^% PROBLEM LIKE A SUMNOBIAAAAAATCH"....
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Post by fbdoc on Nov 29, 2006 16:03:54 GMT -6
This is really a no brainer. Would you use that language in your interview? Would you use it in your classroom? Would you use it front of your kids? Your wife?
If you're sitting around with all your friends, watching the Big Screen and drinking beer, then Hell yes, you're probably going to drop a word or two or maybe even an "F Bomb" but I can't understand why some of the coaches on this post don't get it?
I will say "get you butt down" or if I'm really upset "get your a** going!" but we don't allow cursing on the field! It's not a holier than thou thing it's just who we are. My players know I'm upset if they hear the word "Stinkin" as in Catch the Stinkin Ball or Make the Stinkin Tackle!
If you want to swear, I guess go ahead and swear, or allow you coaches/players to do it. My only other comment would be this - as someone, some parent, some little kid walks by your practice and hears that language - are they going to ask themself, "Is that type of language COACHED or is it simply ALLOWED."
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Post by knight9299 on Nov 29, 2006 16:08:56 GMT -6
He doesn't swear at kids he swears at the situation and most the time its more of a motivational thing like come on tommy kick his F-ing @ss or more then like we are goin to beat the every loving PI$$ out of these @$$holes....not your a stupid f-ing kid you f-ing suck...IDK people don't understand him i think thats the problem. CAN YOU IMAGINE YOUR HIGH SCHOOL CALCULUS TEACHER..."TOMMY, SOLVE THE F*&^% PROBLEM LIKE A SUMNOBIAAAAAATCH".... Can you imagine asking a calculus student solving a calc problem by tackling the kid with the worksheet? Football field behavior and classroom behavior are 2 different things. The football field is a place where certain behaviors that would get you in trouble off the field are not only allowed but encouraged. What makes a student/athlete in my opinion is the ability to flip that switch from aggressive/dominant football player to mild mannered student. Same thing applies for coaches.
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Post by deliverance on Nov 29, 2006 16:17:17 GMT -6
I think some of us can agree that our coaches could get away with a lot more in earlier days when we were playing and no one ever said anything. Also when I grew up you saw very little cussing on T.V. or the radio. It is very common to here dammit, ass, and b!tch at anytime of the day on TV or the radio and we do not even think twice about it. Can we explain this reversal?
Long time ago. No cussing on T.V. and coaches could dog cuss you and parents would say nothing.
Today’s world. Lots of cussing on regular T.V. and coaches have to worry about disciplining any kid without having a meeting with their parent.
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Post by brophy on Nov 29, 2006 16:32:18 GMT -6
if a kid farts in class would it be appropriate? if a kid rips on in the huddle is it not appropriate?
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Post by fbdoc on Nov 29, 2006 16:38:22 GMT -6
Maybe that will be the last turd ... I mean WORD on this subject. Keep it clean guys, including your pants!
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 29, 2006 16:48:02 GMT -6
I acknowledge there are differences between the athletic arena and the classroom. The athletic arena is one filled with emotion and sometimes emotion gets the best of us. I love teaching, but I never get that excited over the Cold War that I would start dropping vulgarities about it. I swear on occation, but my guiding virtue is that if you need to swear to motivate a kid then you need to research a better way.
As a coaching staff we don't swear. I can count the number of games where I heard potty mouths on one hand.
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