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Post by coachbuck on May 26, 2012 7:30:39 GMT -6
Seems we have a problem at our school. Ive noticed over the past four years. Kids think they are going to play d1 football. So when they get hurt during the game or practice they don't play through the pain. They take way to long to come back. They will miss several games. It seems to becoming a trend. Im not talking an injured player. They hold themselves out because they dont want to risk further injury and want to play at 100%. I think the parents have alot to do with it. Are any of you coaches seeing simular things? The reason I bring this up is we just finished up spring ball and our best player didn't participate at all. His leg/thigh was sore but when we had a college attend a practice he was able to practice. The college attended 7th period which is football class and the kids where running plays. Its not just one player it seems all the guys that have ability do this.
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Post by fballcoachg on May 26, 2012 8:04:42 GMT -6
No Practice No Play, No Play No Film, No Film No Recruiting...take the ability away from them and inform them that you are trying to build a program
Also, if they aren't true D1 players or are borderline I would have them attend a college practice with you, show them what D1 athletes look like, how they practice, etc. I would also bring up to the college coach right in front of them, "How many players do you guys recruit that miss practice?" Even if the coach is interested in the kid he will tell them they don't which should be a pretty solid wake up call. Also maybe ask the college coaches how many kids at that position are on their radar, what they look for in a recruit, etc.
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Post by fantom on May 26, 2012 8:29:37 GMT -6
Seems we have a problem at our school. Ive noticed over the past four years. Kids think they are going to play d1 football. So when they get hurt during the game or practice they don't play through the pain. They take way to long to come back. They will miss several games. It seems to becoming a trend. Im not talking an injured player. They hold themselves out because they dont want to risk further injury and want to play at 100%. I think the parents have alot to do with it. Are any of you coaches seeing simular things? The reason I bring this up is we just finished up spring ball and our best player didn't participate at all. His leg/thigh was sore but when we had a college attend a practice he was able to practice. The college attended 7th period which is football class and the kids where running plays. Its not just one player it seems all the guys that have ability do this. Do you have a trainer? |
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Post by brophy on May 26, 2012 8:31:08 GMT -6
I think the underlining theme is that for every action there should be a 'payoff' (some Shakespearean formula of do X and you'll live happily ever after). That simply isn't how life really is.
Whether it is work 30 years and 'retire' or thinking you're going to make one good rap song and then get a fat contract..."D1" is supposed to mean that you're such a good HIGH SCHOOL player (pause for that thought) that you will be the next Reggie Bush.
In reality, if you ARE "D1" the work is just beginning for you ( you haven't 'arrived' anywhere yet). What can you do today (win or lose but you've got to do/contribute/create something)?
The real focus for kids (D1 kids especially) is enjoying the time together, not the payoff.
As far as injuries are concerned, I don't blame the kids that much. Adults shelter them throughout life and keep them from any type of physical risk not to mention the bombardmentof sports stories about maimed athletes. They simply don't know any better
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Post by coachbuck on May 26, 2012 8:42:19 GMT -6
Seems we have a problem at our school. Ive noticed over the past four years. Kids think they are going to play d1 football. So when they get hurt during the game or practice they don't play through the pain. They take way to long to come back. They will miss several games. It seems to becoming a trend. Im not talking an injured player. They hold themselves out because they dont want to risk further injury and want to play at 100%. I think the parents have alot to do with it. Are any of you coaches seeing simular things? The reason I bring this up is we just finished up spring ball and our best player didn't participate at all. His leg/thigh was sore but when we had a college attend a practice he was able to practice. The college attended 7th period which is football class and the kids where running plays. Its not just one player it seems all the guys that have ability do this. Do you have a trainer? Yes we do, but when the kids say they are hurt, what do you do. I think our trainer is good but very cautious. |
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Post by brophy on May 26, 2012 8:44:19 GMT -6
Trainer or not, mom will take that kid with a swollen knee to their PEDIATRICIAN or most likely the ER where the attending physician will provide the canned text Tx "rest for 2 weeks" |
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Post by coachbuck on May 26, 2012 8:46:35 GMT -6
Trainer or not, mom will take that kid with a swollen knee to their PEDIATRICIAN or most likely the ER where the attending physician will provide the canned text Tx "rest for 2 weeks" exactly what is happening. Frustrating as heck. |
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Post by bigm0073 on May 26, 2012 8:47:52 GMT -6
This a 3 star D-I guy we have that is verablly committed to Virginia Tech this spring as a 16 year old junior. During our regional playoff he separated his shoulder and tore his lebrum... In the next game his shoulder popped back out on a jet sweep. Trainer popped it back in and he and his mom decided to go back in. The 2nd clip is his first carry where he goes 60 yds for a TD. He played in the state semis with it and scored 2 TDs.
6'2" 200 lbs... Genetics.. He was not worried about imjures.. just winning.
He came back in May after not touching a weight for almost 6 months because of his surgery and cleaned 205 x 15 reps.. We finally told him to stop.
That is D-IA. Born not made...
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Post by coachd5085 on May 26, 2012 8:54:11 GMT -6
This a 3 star D-I guy we have that is verablly committed to Virginia Tech this spring as a 16 year old junior. During our regional playoff he separated his shoulder and tore his lebrum... In the next game his shoulder popped back out on a jet sweep. Trainer popped it back in and he and his mom decided to go back in. The 2nd clip is his first carry where he goes 60 yds for a TD. He played in the state semis with it and scored 2 TDs. 6'2" 200 lbs... Genetics.. He was not worried about imjures.. just winning. He came back in May after not touching a weight for almost 6 months because of his surgery and cleaned 205 x 15 reps.. We finally told him to stop. That is D-IA. Born not made... Good player. |
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Post by fantom on May 26, 2012 8:57:07 GMT -6
Trainer or not, mom will take that kid with a swollen knee to their PEDIATRICIAN or most likely the ER where the attending physician will provide the canned text Tx "rest for 2 weeks" Oh, don't I know it. If you have a trainer at least you have a chance. If the trainer says they're out, they're out. If they're in they practice. We tell them not to go to the doctor unless the trainer tells them to and MOSTLY they listen. Not always. We had a kid go to the doctor with a mildly sprained ankle and come back in a boot, out for two weeks. That wasn't because he was a D.1 prospect "protecting his future" though. That was because he was a dumba$$. Yeah, it's just the lay of the land today and with all of the media emphasis about concussions it won't get better. |
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Post by optionoline on May 26, 2012 11:13:20 GMT -6
Wait, you're high school offers football as a class? What state are you in? Is this common in other parts of the country? I'm in the north and have never heard of that but would love it.
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Post by brophy on May 26, 2012 11:56:19 GMT -6
Wait, you're high school offers football as a class? What state are you in? Is this common in other parts of the country? I'm in the north and have never heard of that but would love it. welcome to the South, Yankee |
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Post by jgordon1 on May 26, 2012 12:02:50 GMT -6
Its interesting, I have never had a kid think he was going to 1A..Sometimes I think I almost rather have that problem..hey if you are going 1A, watch these videos of kids working to that level etc
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Post by coachd5085 on May 26, 2012 12:27:30 GMT -6
Wait, you're high school offers football as a class? What state are you in? Is this common in other parts of the country? I'm in the north and have never heard of that but would love it. Some places have an "athletic PE"..which is held during last hour. |
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Post by coachroe on May 26, 2012 15:19:21 GMT -6
Seems we have a problem at our school. Ive noticed over the past four years. Kids think they are going to play d1 football. So when they get hurt during the game or practice they don't play through the pain. They take way to long to come back. They will miss several games. It seems to becoming a trend. Im not talking an injured player. They hold themselves out because they dont want to risk further injury and want to play at 100%. I think the parents have alot to do with it. Are any of you coaches seeing simular things? The reason I bring this up is we just finished up spring ball and our best player didn't participate at all. His leg/thigh was sore but when we had a college attend a practice he was able to practice. The college attended 7th period which is football class and the kids where running plays. Its not just one player it seems all the guys that have ability do this. Being a former D1 coach and now helping kids through the recruiting process here is what I have found to be successful in curbing "D1-itus": Best thing to do is overload them with facts about D1. : - Only 0.8% of HS football players go on to play at that level - As a junior, that player should have been getting phone calls (not email, mailers, spring game invites, even visits to the HS) from D1 schools because we are in the spring Eval period. Coaches can make 1 phone call to Jr's between April 15th and May 31st. Coaches will call their top 15-25 PER POSITION. If they didn't get a call, they are at best a 3rd tier guy for D1 (and that is only if the coach visited AND the kid is getting personal emails - meaning the coach is sending you emails that start with RE: ). I always give the example of when I was a Sr in HS, every Sr on my team,every week, got a letter and a game invite from Kentucky. Why? Who knows, but I severely doubt UK was looking to bring in 27 guys from the same HS to play in the SEC. Direct mailers/emails mean absolutely nothing without a phone call. - Roughly 75-85%% of offers to 1-A are out by the end of summer camp What does all that add up to? Your Jr year is the most important for D1. If you are missing games or practices, you are missing opportunities to get in front of college coaches and become a better player. PERIOD. If you are a senior and missing games, you better have 3 or more 1A guys calling you a week if you want to play at that level. If you aren't getting those calls, you need more film to show a coach what you can do or your not a D1 player. Be honest with where they are. What type of contact are they receiving? How many 1-A coaches have they talked to on the phone? A kid can call a D1 coach at anytime, so if a coach is truly interested, they will pick up the phone. Last thing, coaches are evaluating them as a player, a student, and as a person (Not always in that order). If they are just of good as a player and student as someone else but they are missing practice and the other guy isn't which one do you think the coach is going to go with? Which guy is that coach going to be able to trust on Saturdays in the fall? |
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Post by 19delta on May 26, 2012 15:55:20 GMT -6
Seems we have a problem at our school. Ive noticed over the past four years. Kids think they are going to play d1 football. So when they get hurt during the game or practice they don't play through the pain. They take way to long to come back. They will miss several games. It seems to becoming a trend. Im not talking an injured player. They hold themselves out because they dont want to risk further injury and want to play at 100%. I think the parents have alot to do with it. Are any of you coaches seeing simular things? The reason I bring this up is we just finished up spring ball and our best player didn't participate at all. His leg/thigh was sore but when we had a college attend a practice he was able to practice. The college attended 7th period which is football class and the kids where running plays. Its not just one player it seems all the guys that have ability do this. I'm not following. Why do the kids think they are D1? Are they getting phone calls? Recruiting letters? What is feeding this mentality? If the kids are going into their senior year and haven't heard anything yet, they ain't going D1. |
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Post by fantom on May 26, 2012 16:38:22 GMT -6
Seems we have a problem at our school. Ive noticed over the past four years. Kids think they are going to play d1 football. So when they get hurt during the game or practice they don't play through the pain. They take way to long to come back. They will miss several games. It seems to becoming a trend. Im not talking an injured player. They hold themselves out because they dont want to risk further injury and want to play at 100%. I think the parents have alot to do with it. Are any of you coaches seeing simular things? The reason I bring this up is we just finished up spring ball and our best player didn't participate at all. His leg/thigh was sore but when we had a college attend a practice he was able to practice. The college attended 7th period which is football class and the kids where running plays. Its not just one player it seems all the guys that have ability do this. I'm not following. Why do the kids think they are D1? Are they getting phone calls? Recruiting letters? What is feeding this mentality? If the kids are going into their senior year and haven't heard anything yet, they ain't going D1. Why do kids think they're D.1 basketball players or will be taken in the MLB draft? |
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Post by 19delta on May 26, 2012 17:16:29 GMT -6
I'm not following. Why do the kids think they are D1? Are they getting phone calls? Recruiting letters? What is feeding this mentality? If the kids are going into their senior year and haven't heard anything yet, they ain't going D1. Why do kids think they're D.1 basketball players or will be taken in the MLB draft? What "kids" are you talking about? I have never worked in a district that had an epidemic of kids milking injuries because they thought they had to stay healthy to play D1 ball. Given that this is more than a handful of kids who are making these claims, there is obviously something encouraging the perception that these kids are legit D1 players. |
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Post by mrjvi on May 26, 2012 17:19:57 GMT -6
coachroe,
Great stuff. I'm going to copy it and show all of the kids who think they are awesome.
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Post by newt21 on May 26, 2012 17:23:25 GMT -6
if they're anything like the kids from where i'm at it's because they've always been told you're good. in many cases they may be good, and in other cases it may just be in their head that they're good when they're mediocre. we have kids at our school that didn't make the basketball team that still think they're going to the nba straight from high school.
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Post by brophy on May 26, 2012 18:08:43 GMT -6
The kids we're talking about are most often kids that either by family (most of these come from an overzealous uncle/father) or by sheer fandomhave deluded themselves into thinking they will be the lost gem Terrell Owens that recruiters find when scouting anotherplayer. If rational thought entered their way of thinking this really wouldn't be an issue...but think about reasoning with a 17 year old boy when he finds a girl that...eh...pleases him. Not really thinking well.they're young, they dream big. Heck I wanted to be a rock star at that age, did you want to be a teacher at 17?
What I find interesting is that when I've seen this in kids (seen it quite a bit) its on a team that DOES have D1 players, so its not like they don't know about what a D1 specimen physically is.
One thing our HC does that I think helps deliver the message is he explains to all the kids how to use HUDL and how to easily tag your own highlights. Kids realize maybe they aren't all that much of a superstar when they can only find 4 plays in a season
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Post by 19delta on May 26, 2012 19:42:27 GMT -6
What I find interesting is that when I've seen this in kids (seen it quite a bit) its on a team that DOES have D1 players, so its not like they don't know about what a D1 specimen physically is. That does make sense...possibly simply jealously? But...the big difference is that those legit D1 kids are getting letters, phone calls...probably a lot of attention from local media...it's obvious they are going to play big-time college ball. The wannabes, the kids who think they are going D1...how are they explaining the simple fact that they aren't getting phone calls and letters from colleges? Again...I have simply never experienced something like this...I have never coached for a team that has numerous kids faking the funk because they are worried about being injured and not getting a D1 scholarship that they aren't even being offered. Of course, I have coached the occasional kid who thinks he is D1 material, but I have never had an epidemic like what the OP described. |
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Post by groundchuck on May 26, 2012 19:50:23 GMT -6
The kids we're talking about are most often kids that either by family (most of these come from an overzealous uncle/father) or by sheer fandomhave deluded themselves into thinking they will be the lost gem Terrell Owens that recruiters find when scouting anotherplayer. If rational thought entered their way of thinking this really wouldn't be an issue...but think about reasoning with a 17 year old boy when he finds a girl that...eh...pleases him. Not really thinking well.they're young, they dream big. Heck I wanted to be a rock star at that age, did you want to be a teacher at 17? What I find interesting is that when I've seen this in kids (seen it quite a bit) its on a team that DOES have D1 players, so its not like they don't know about what a D1 specimen physically is. One thing our HC does that I think helps deliver the message is he explains to all the kids how to use HUDL and how to easily tag your own highlights. Kids realize maybe they aren't all that much of a superstar when they can only find 4 plays in a season Actually by age 17 I did want to be a teacher. WTF was wrong with me? LOL  I can't say I have kids faking or milking injuries like this. I have some kids who think they're d1 and are not though. |
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Post by bigm0073 on May 26, 2012 20:15:40 GMT -6
D IA Players are born and not made. You can usually see them in middle school...maybe in pop warner ball.. They must have measurables - skill players 6 feet or over... Lineman 6'4'' and taller range.
Their tape should JUMP OUT at you... Like WOW. We have two 16 year old kids this year who are current juniors with multiple division IA offers. One kids is 6'2" 200 lbs genetic freak. His sister was the starting center for UNC and wast just drafted in the WNBA. As I started earlier he is very gifted.
Another kid is closer to 6'0"170 range. Not huge. runs 4.5. Has 7 offers. As a junior he had 60 catches 1020 yds and16 TDS..had 7 playes for 40 yards or more for TD on hilight film. Returns punts/kicks and plays corner and safety.
These kids dominated. There was never a question of "are they DIA"...They just are.
Like Brophy said usually an agenda coming from parents or some Uncle Rio type. They guy that says "I know a guy at Rutgers....I know a guy at TCU...I know a guy at Auburn....You know the type. They create and manifest this fasle hope.
In my 12 years as a high school football coach I have been apart of 5 players that went d-ia. They all HAD GREAT WORK ETHICS. Some are playing pro ball currently. All were very,very tough and all possessed the IT factor. They just had. Football was important to them. They would not miss practice, limp around. They were always the first in conditioning and always wanted to win first.
My 2010 team sounded like your current team. Very, very selfish. They were more caught up in their indidividual goals and not the team. They did not believe that team success will bring individual glory. It was always about them....None of them were dIA though they did camps..Many went d-2 d-3 types...again they were selfish and we went 5-5 with that selfish attitude. I have true d-IA players today and they are tougher, more focused and work much harder. They know they are good and they have offers.
It is what it is...
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Post by bigm0073 on May 26, 2012 20:19:16 GMT -6
By the way if your kids are practicing in May without D-IA offers =THEY ARE NOT DIA..
Have had several D-IA schools come through in May already and tell me they have their slots filled for 2013 class. They are not even looking at 2013 currently. Many of them wanted 2014 players - sophomores..Virginia Tech, Virginia and West Virginia were all pretty much done and looking for 2014 recruits as of the past two weeks...
That is the reality we live in toda.
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Post by emptybackfield on May 26, 2012 20:37:34 GMT -6
By the way if your kids are practicing in May without D-IA offers =THEY ARE NOT DIA.. I understand your point, but this isn't true. A lot of kids will get offers the summer going into their senior year at one day camps held by schools, etc. |
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Post by bigm0073 on May 26, 2012 20:57:04 GMT -6
I am not talking about the 2nd tier or 3rd tier guys... They are D-IA...
When Tech, UVA or WVU comes in and they invite these guys to junior days and invite they to camps in the summer they are legit guys. They are not their number 1 guy but they are on THEIR BOARD.. They have already had this conversation. When they come to your school they are checking on them and want to follow up.
I would bet that probably close to 80% or more of D-IA players ALREADY ARE CURRENTLY HOLDING AT LEAST ONE OFFER!! THIS IS REALITY.
I have a guy that has 7 offer so far. 3 D-IAA and four D-IA. Again they probably hold one or more now..
Usually the summer you will find your OL/DL gem. Guy that is huge 6'6"320 but has OK tape. Has the measuarbles and goes to a camp and get offers. Most DIA have their offers out...Many have offered between 50 - 150 players already. Depending on the school.
It is what it is... If you are 5'11" 185 lbs and run a 4.8 forty these schools DO NOT WANT YOU! You are a dime a dozen and you are everyehere...
How about the 6'2" 260 lbs OL that runs a 5.5... Think they want him.... Think again....
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Post by emptybackfield on May 26, 2012 21:11:56 GMT -6
bigm-
You're preaching to the choir bro. It's the parents and kids that need to hear that, not coaches.
I was just saying what you said in your last post isn't always true. Some schools want to get a kid on campus before they extend an offer, and some kids can't travel until the summer.
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Post by 19delta on May 26, 2012 21:14:49 GMT -6
By the way if your kids are practicing in May without D-IA offers =THEY ARE NOT DIA.. I understand your point, but this isn't true. A lot of kids will get offers the summer going into their senior year at one day camps held by schools, etc. Not many. If they don't have an offer after their junior year, they really aren't D1 material. |
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Post by bigm0073 on May 26, 2012 21:22:42 GMT -6
Agree... This is the reality we live in today... This is not 1989...Times have changed big time.
Facts are when the D-IA schools were visiting this spring (we had over 20 schools visity) They had either
1. Offered our kid already
2. Had made contact with me about an offer or were following up camp...etc...
If not - They were looking for 2014 recruits.. Many of these schools have already extended over 100 scholarship offers...
It is what it is.. You can argue and give an example here and there....But if your kid is practicing in MAY OF HIS JUNIOR YEAR WITHOUT AN OFFER... HE IS NOT D-IA!
That is reality...
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